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Thread: Antipodean Boats Connection

  1. #38746
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    Fire BAD and you're in midwinter! We have a nasty one going up here that's finally slowed down a bit. It's burned around 34,000 acres (~130 sq kilometers) in some of my favorite hiking territory. Some spectacular pictures in the attached :
    http://www.kgw.com/news/local/rescue...fire/470354816 Apparently started by some kids with fireworks. Luckily nobody's been injured so far and there's only been one house lost.
    They are some amazing and scary photos Hugh - incredible that only one house has been lost and no injuries
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  2. #38747
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    i think wood movement on the sunny side. She had a few on the port side when I bought her. then a couple appeared stbd in Tassie. One was in way of the shrouds which worried me, but others are not, so I dont think its to do with the shroud tension. I keep them a bit loose anyway. I now have a shade cloth skirt on the sunny side, which seems to be stopping any new ones.
    I'm not doubting this explanation, because I have so little building experience and simply wouldn't know, but I do find it quite remarkable and barely credible that Adelaide's sun could have such an effect. I know the opening of seams happens easily with carvel hulls but - and correct me if I'm wrong - strip planked construction involves nailing and glueing each strip together, around a ribbed frame. And then you've epoxy glassed all over the outside of the hull to boot.

    At a stretch, I could envisage the heat of the sun opening up the seams against the resistance of the glue and nails, but to also overwhelm the sheathing of glass seems extraordinary. I wonder, variously: Was the glass sheath itself split open? Were the nails still intact or were they loosened? Etc.

    Anyhow, if you're satisfied with the explanation, all well and good. But if there is any lingering doubt, and for curiosity's sake, have you considered turning the boat around at the mooring to see if similar damage can be induced on the port side?

  3. #38748
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Mine’s not glassed, but even in the shed out of the sun and even though Huon pine is prone to very little movement, the glue lines open up with the timber drying out and contracting during the dry spring weather here. I’m guessing Phil’s is much the same issue, given that it’s not glassed/epoxied on the inside and so moisture isn’t contained within the timber when it gets particularly hot under the sun.....(???)
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  4. #38749
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    So many possibilities - different wood, different glue, different sized strips (width and thickness), different fastenings, different paint, different places, different frame spacing. Masina doesn't open up anywhere - she's strip kauri, resorcinol glued, gal nail fastened, tight frame spacing, glass sheathed (non-structural) on the outside only. But if she was in Adelaide - who knows?

    Rick

  5. #38750
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Balia has only a thin layer of glass, nothing terribly strong about it. Im not at all surprised that a bit of opening up of a seam will tear the glass apart. Simple physics/mechanics. Its always the sunny side that sees the damage.

  6. #38751
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    It has to be humidity rather than heat per se, I think. I'm surprised the glass tears. I'd have thought that the epoxy would soften enough to allow the timber to shift under it but you must have a lot of adhesion for it to tear the glass. The sun must just dry it out that much more, without being hot enough to soften the resin and cause delamination.

    Masina has two-pack paint - I wonder if that helps to keep a bit more moisture in the timber? But who knows - could be a combination of various factors.

    Rick

  7. #38752
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    If don't think it's heat. Just drying out from the sun. More on the sunny side. You'll see the effect on most carvel boats in Adelaide. Balias paint is 2 pack. I've been told she's on only her 3rd paint job in her 40 odd years.

  8. #38753
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    I've seen plenty of ply boats with glassed chines, where the glass has cracked once the chine joint moves a little. Different failure mode, but similar interaction between the wood and the glass. Glass is not very flexible.

  9. #38754
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Delving deep into the memory of the old dinghies, I don't ever recall that meself - a glassed chine was forever, or so I thought. Maybe we used a heavier cloth back then, I dunno. I've seen it separate from the ply as a strip, but splitting of the glass I've never seen.

    On the strip plank thing, the resorcinol glue required almost perfect joinery to work properly, so maybe that was an issue in the localised failure areas. Epoxy glues would be a better choice, I'd think, for wood butchers like me because of its better filling properties.

  10. #38755
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    If don't think it's heat. Just drying out from the sun. More on the sunny side. You'll see the effect on most carvel boats in Adelaide. Balias paint is 2 pack. I've been told she's on only her 3rd paint job in her 40 odd years.
    Better try a 3-pack ....

    Rick

  11. #38756
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    Looks like they’re having a hard time getting this fire under control with a lot of wind about - it had grown quite a bit last night with a front that looked a good mile to two miles long when I climbed up the hill for a better look across the valley.

    Hard to see it in the pic (from the phone) but it stretches back down to the valley in the left of the photo and further to the right. It’s just over the valley west of us and the prevailing wind is blowing a strong southerly at the moment so, unless it changes, it’s no threat to us. They’re saying on the national news that it is threatening about a thousand homes but I think the wind would have to veer quite a bit for that to be true.

    [IMG]IMG_9877 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]
    I wish 'em luck! Wind is never your friend when fighting fires. Out on the water, now that's different!

  12. #38757
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    I wish 'em luck! Wind is never your friend when fighting fires. Out on the water, now that's different!

    We’ve been pretty lucky here Hugh - so far. Up here in south east Queensland we don’t seem to get the incredibly hot canopy fires that you’re seeing over there or which regularly devastate lives and vast areas of Victoria, South Australia, Western Australia, Tasmania and New South Wales...........knock on wood.

    Summer is usually when we get our best rain up here and although the understory here dries off in the Winter and Spring it doesn’t really get the severely parched hard baked dryness that the Summer heat brings to Victoria and New South Wales before it starts to green up again.

    The fire here seems to be under control, although the area has been difficult to access so mostly fought by the water bombers. It burnt down this side of the hill not quite towards us quite a way yesterday morning before the wind changed and started to blow the fire back on itself mid afternoon and by this morning it’s looking more like a controlled burn off.

    Still no news on how it started though.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  13. #38758
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    We're getting heavy squalls every half hour or so and have been for a couple of days. Bay looks very green and full of whitecaps. On the shallows over the sandbars it looks at times like it's boiling. Nearly got blown off the beach this morning.

    Take care Greg.

  14. #38759
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    We nearly bought this boat https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/noos...red/1158958327 Happily, we bought a better boat. This one was advertised for $50 000 back then. I offered $27 000 and the broker didn't even pass the offer on to the owner, according to the broker. It needed a ton of work. It still looks the same, except it now has a new engine, so still requires ..... a ton of work! They're a beautiful boat and this one is the sister to Shaun's Ronita. But it needs a couple of years of work. It has a new engine but I don't think that's going to add much value.

    I don't know what the current owner of this Seabird paid for it but it must have been a fair bit more than $27 000 (I was prepared to pay $35 000 but the idiot broker wouldn't speak to me!). I know it's just been sitting up in Noosa - I wonder how much he's spent? He'll be very lucky to get more than $20 000 now. All the hull issues and cracked cabin sides etc. look like they haven't been touched, and now it's four years later ..... Doesn't even look like they cleaned up the engine bay to install the new motor! And look at the way the engine's mounted - really and truly .........

    It's a shame this boat hasn't been bought by someone who actually cares about it.

    Rick
    Last edited by RFNK; 09-08-2017 at 05:36 PM.

  15. #38760
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    We nearly bought this boat https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/noos...red/1158958327 Happily, we bought a better boat. .. Doesn't even look like they cleaned up the engine bay to install the new motor! And look at the way the engine's mounted - really and truly .........

    It's a shame this boat hasn't been bought by someone who actually cares about it.

    Rick
    Talk about mismatching a new engine with an existing shaft.
    While it may be easier to do an oil change on that new Beta not so sure how much space is available to service the transmission or rear of the engine and shaft.
    The problem contributing to badly done new engine installations these days may also be the dwindling supply of good marine mechanics due to mounting liability insurances.

    I recently discussed this with Craig from Border diesel who stated he does not work on boats anymore since his liability insurance would cost him about $25.000 annually.

  16. #38761
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Maybe the broker was just being merciful, protecting you from yourself? Send him a xmas card

  17. #38762
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    No, it's a great boat that's probably worth about what I offered. Now, I wouldn't pay more than about $20k for it.

    Rick

  18. #38763
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    We nearly bought this boat https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/noos...red/1158958327 Happily, we bought a better boat.
    She's actually in Mooloolaba. I paddled around her on the SUP and had a close look from outside a few weeks ago. She doesn't look happy. I definitely agree cabin and hull haven't been touched in quite a few years.

  19. #38764
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    That's right - a friend spots it from time to time at Mooloolaba, not Noosa. Thanks Matt! Can you get yachts into the river at Noosa?

    Rick

  20. #38765
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    She's got the curvy bulkhead thing going. Gypsy wagon I think Greg calls it? Not sure the toolbox on the back verandah really suits her.

  21. #38766
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    That's right - a friend spots it from time to time at Mooloolaba, not Noosa. Thanks Matt! Can you get yachts into the river at Noosa?
    There are plenty of yachts inside, so yes. I daresay it would be a bit dicey at times.

  22. #38767
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    A silly wee job this afternoon, the wheel on my second barrow needed replacing after 25 years so I bought one at Bunnings. It has a set of cheap 1'' bearings in it, 1''! Why would you have a 1'' shaft in a wheel barrow ? The old one was 5/8'' and perfectly satisfactory . No 5/8'' ones in Bunnings though.

    So I spent an hour turning a stepped shaft so I could mount the wheel, 5/8'' at the sides to fit the brackets and about 22mm in the middle with a sleeve over to fit the 1'' bearings .... I didn't have any 1'' steel round .

    Fiddly but done !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  23. #38768
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by MattSplatt View Post
    There are plenty of yachts inside, so yes. I daresay it would be a bit dicey at times.
    Dicey is right ,my old Pacific Seacraft 25 apparently bumped hard while crossing the Noosa bar and lost her outboard rudder. Must have been funny video material seeing the former owner diving into four foot of water retrieving the rudder while trying hard not to loose "Havalah" barley clear of the breaks by then.

  24. #38769
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    A silly wee job this afternoon, the wheel on my second barrow needed replacing after 25 years so I bought one at Bunnings. It has a set of cheap 1'' bearings in it, 1''! Why would you have a 1'' shaft in a wheel barrow ? The old one was 5/8'' and perfectly satisfactory . No 5/8'' ones in Bunnings though.

    So I spent an hour turning a stepped shaft so I could mount the wheel, 5/8'' at the sides to fit the brackets and about 22mm in the middle with a sleeve over to fit the 1'' bearings .... I didn't have any 1'' steel round .

    Fiddly but done !
    I have had similar problems with 1 inch and 25 mm axles and bearings for wheelbarrows.
    They are a pain in the butt.
    Rob J.

  25. #38770
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Portland View Post
    I have had similar problems with 1 inch and 25 mm axles and bearings for wheelbarrows.
    They are a pain in the butt.
    Rob J.
    Sounds a bit like the fustercluck we have here with tow hitches. There are craploads of trailers still being sold with 1 7/8" hitches, but a slowly increasing amount of 50mm gear appearing. It has caused a few nasty accidents, when you get the wrong combo of imperial ball and metric hitch, and the trailer jumps off.
    Of course, nothing will happen until somebody gets killed, then the gummint will want everything changed to 50mm inside of a year.

    Pete
    Don't underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers!

  26. #38771
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Some things about NZ surprise me. The absence of regulation is in many ways good, but one would have thought a standard for new trailers would have been introduced a very long time ago.

  27. #38772
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Most of the epoxy and fibreglass work is now done on Redwing. Next weekend I hope to start getting some primer over it all. Big problem today was the epoxy batches getting too warm and going off.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  28. #38773
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    West?

    Rick

  29. #38774
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Do you own an old Esky Gary ? Alternatively a styro brocolli box and a small bag of ice would keep the mix cooler, a flat dish is good too as it gives more radiating surface for loose heat from.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  30. #38775
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    I get that problem with Bote Cote on the hottest days in summer. With West and other silly 4 or 5:1 mixes, I get it whenever it's a bit warm. Really annoying and the reason I won't use anything other than 2:1 mixes. My friend David reckons that West is less viscous so better for glassing but I find Bote Cote is fine for glassing and it's when mixing those bigger batches that quick setting is more of a problem. As Peter suggests, mixing in a wide, shallow container helps a lot. Yes, I know you can get slower hardeners etc. but really, as if working with epoxy isn't enough frigging already?

    Rick

  31. #38776
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Ha, down here I've got a boom in the house because it's too cold for the epoxy to go off in the shed.

  32. #38777
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Im warming the epoxy up in the house before i use it. Seems to go off in the shed OK, just slow. But its too thick to use at shed temp.

  33. #38778
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    West?

    Rick
    I've been using West but I'm using a different brand at the moment. I much prefer Botecote, though I'm tempted to try the Norglass 2:1 as I can get it locally.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  34. #38779
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Do you own an old Esky Gary ? Alternatively a styro brocolli box and a small bag of ice would keep the mix cooler, a flat dish is good too as it gives more radiating surface for loose heat from.
    I was using a large icecream container. Getting ice is a hassle so I will just mix smaller batches.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  35. #38780
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    I'm sure any 2:1 mix will be fine.

    Rick

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