Antipodean Boats Connection

[RFNK]

Hello,
Im from Australia originally having left to travle the world back in 2004,
I own a 1968 cold moulded mahogany sailing boat designed by Angus Primrose and built in cowes as an Admirals cup contender for the UK,
My question is, its spent its years in the cold waters of the northern hemisphere, having been raced in the west indies in its early days and back and forth accross the atlantic a few times and wherever else in its racing history. I am preparing it to sail back to Australia by the end of 2012. (thats the plan anyway)
And i am wanting to know peoples insight into the weather difference etc, having the boat in warmer waters, whether this is going to cause any problems etc,
The hull is 5 layers of 4mm veneers diagonally moulded with resorcinol glue in between each layer. with a new paint job of only 6 months old,
I commited the sin of leaving the boat out of the water under tarpaulines for 15 months in the UK to air before sealing with 3 coats of wests epoxy before 2 coats of epoxy primer followed by top coat etc
My main concern is the temperature of the water and the change in heat if the boat is to be resided in Qld or Darwin or somewhere tropical. This is my goal of return.

There are various species of wood called mahogany and the quality of it varies a lot too. I have two yachts with mahogany. One has a mahogany hull, the other only a mahogany transom. Both have had rot in the mahogany but in both cases it's where rainwater has been able to saturate wood or plywood that sits against the mahogany. If your deck is really leak proof, especially around the gunwales, and you don't have areas where water can be trapped against the mahogany, then I think you'll be fine. There are many boats built from mahogany in Australia and many have lasted well. You will need to use anti foul suitable for Australia as we do have serious problems with teredo and other shipworms, although I don't think ours are quite as voracious as some in the US and Carribean. Good luck - would love to see some pictures of your boat.
Rick

[Larks]

In post 111 Greg mentions the "Juliene" , a Bernard Wilson boat , being on the market.
I recalled speaking to the previous owner , just after he had sold her , after the WBF in Hobart.
He had sold her to a retired cray fisherman , who wanted to do some recreational fishing , in a real boat.
So , according to the broker , apparently he rebuilt the heads on the Gardner 5LW , and repainted her.
And lost interest , recreational fishing was a bit lame , after many years of the real thing.
So , the Juliene is back on the market.
Still , its a lot of money !.
Regards Rob J.

Ho serious is he about selling her Rob? Are you thinking of making an offer?

[Portland]

Well Greg , thats a good point , I don't know how serious he is.
Apparently he is using the boat , and I would need to ring up well in advance to see the boat.
He may well sell , if he gets his asking price , but I'm not sure I want to pay that much.
Firstly , for better or worse , I like gaff rigs.
So thats more money spent , changing over the rigging.
The previous owner was very honest with me about her sailing ability , not much , except when crossing Bass Strait !.
I could get as good (and that is very good) a boat for half the price or less , from Europe or Scandinavia , delivered here !.
The days are getting longer in the Nthn Hemisphere , hopefully it won't be long before we are up there , among 'em !.
I also know that Julie Elizabeth is coming up for sale soon , and she is one hell of a boat , surprisingly economical , and probably the same price as Juliene.
Thats still a fair bit of money though .
I'll be looking for real value for money .
Regards Rob J.

[WX]

Started work on fitting my gear/throttle control today. I post some photos upstairs when the job is a bit more advanced. I also moved my 800 Kgs of lead to along side the melter today...I figured I needed some exercise.

[nauticalnomad]

There are various species of wood called mahogany and the quality of it varies a lot too. I have two yachts with mahogany. One has a mahogany hull, the other only a mahogany transom. Both have had rot in the mahogany but in both cases it's where rainwater has been able to saturate wood or plywood that sits against the mahogany. If your deck is really leak proof, especially around the gunwales, and you don't have areas where water can be trapped against the mahogany, then I think you'll be fine. There are many boats built from mahogany in Australia and many have lasted well. You will need to use anti foul suitable for Australia as we do have serious problems with teredo and other shipworms, although I don't think ours are quite as voracious as some in the US and Carribean. Good luck - would love to see some pictures of your boat.
Rick

Thanks for the insight about the mahogany, I have no troubles with deck leaking etc, Shes pretty dry inside, Except for the old Perkins 4107 leaking its iol, Which i am changing in January having just bought a new Nanni 43HP engine to fit.
I have tried to post some pictures but it says that the quota is exceeded on each pic,
How do i reduce the pixles?

[WX]

So what did you do after morning tea?

After a very busy Xmas and my first morning without family...I slept in till about 8am, had two cups of tea in bed and got up about 9.30am. Had breakfast, then coffee. The day started about 11am and I worked to around 2.30pm. Then we sat in front of the telly and watched episodes of Dead Like Me, which youngest daughter gave me for Xmas (seasons 1 and 2). Then we went to the pub for dinner...came home and watched more DLM.

[nauticalnomad]

http://s1131.photobucket.com/albums/m552/nauticalnomad/

I have attached a link of the boat before the paintjob, She used to be blue, now she is the white colour you can see.
Along with a page from some book about the designers boats
I dont have any others of her right now

[Duncan Gibbs]

Looks fast eh!









Is that a trim tab on the keel?

[PeterSibley]

Very quick !

[nauticalnomad]

[QUOTE=PeterSibley;3249125]Very quick ![/QUOTE
A mate and i bought her over from the UK to Holland in July
It was the first proper ocean sail ive had in her since buying her,
The weather report was the following 3,4 then increasing to 5,6 gusts of 7 then decreasing back to 5,
So we thought yeah ok, Off we go and it went 3,4,5,6,7,8 gusting 9 not decreasing
we obviously had 1 reef in and were averaging 9 knots accross.
We left the Uk with the wind behind us and the 45yr old Perkins engine blows up, So what had taken us 3 hours to get down river and out to where we were would have taken 9 hours to get back had we turned around and tacked back up river- So we decided to head accross as the wind was favourable
My mates girlfriend was on board and for 20 hours she hugged a bucket being sick,
Both of us were looking at each other reassuring each other that yeah were alright, but infact both really thinking to ourselves this was not good at all.
The wind generator on the stern was spinning like it was going to take off
there were and weve discussed this after back on land and its no exageration 10 metre high waves crashing down onto us into the cockpit
But the speed we were doing was fast, surfing down waves then back up the faces etc
and it was the determining factor of whether i keep the boat or not as i was worried about its age and the past use as to the integrity etc,
But if she can handle that in the North Sea, it should be capable of elsewhere.
So i was constantly pushing her to the limit, into the waves and side on etc looking to see anything that gave performance issues or to just see what she was capable of (without being life threatening of course) There was never a moment that we felt it was going to roll, she just kept digging in and increasing speed like a dolphin surfing through the waves.
So we were both surprised etc as to the crossing.
So yeah shes fast etc, Laying in Holland with a blown engine to which im waiting till January for a new one to come,
I am replacing the Vee drive set up i have currently as the engine is in backwards and the shaft runs out underneath the block,
So i am repowering her with hydraulic propulsion.
Not sure if that is a good idea or not.. But time will tell.

[WX]

[QUOTE=nauticalnomad;3249133]

Very quick ![/QUOTE
A mate and i bought her over from the UK to Holland in July
It was the first proper ocean sail ive had in her since buying her,
The weather report was the following 3,4 then increasing to 5,6 gusts of 7 then decreasing back to 5,
So we thought yeah ok, Off we go and it went 3,4,5,6,7,8 gusting 9 not decreasing
we obviously had 1 reef in and were averaging 9 knots accross.
We left the Uk with the wind behind us and the 45yr old Perkins engine blows up, So what had taken us 3 hours to get down river and out to where we were would have taken 9 hours to get back had we turned around and tacked back up river- So we decided to head accross as the wind was favourable
My mates girlfriend was on board and for 20 hours she hugged a bucket being sick,
Both of us were looking at each other reassuring each other that yeah were alright, but infact both really thinking to ourselves this was not good at all.
The wind generator on the stern was spinning like it was going to take off
there were and weve discussed this after back on land and its no exageration 10 metre high waves crashing down onto us into the cockpit
But the speed we were doing was fast, surfing down waves then back up the faces etc
and it was the determining factor of whether i keep the boat or not as i was worried about its age and the past use as to the integrity etc,
But if she can handle that in the North Sea, it should be capable of elsewhere.
So i was constantly pushing her to the limit, into the waves and side on etc looking to see anything that gave performance issues or to just see what she was capable of (without being life threatening of course) There was never a moment that we felt it was going to roll, she just kept digging in and increasing speed like a dolphin surfing through the waves.
So we were both surprised etc as to the crossing.
So yeah shes fast etc, Laying in Holland with a blown engine to which im waiting till January for a new one to come,
I am replacing the Vee drive set up i have currently as the engine is in backwards and the shaft runs out underneath the block,
So i am repowering her with hydraulic propulsion.
Not sure if that is a good idea or not.. But time will tell.

I take it she's set up for single handing and it's obvious she's no slouch.
Welcome aboard by the way.
Any chance of some internal shots?

[RFNK]

Looks like a nice boat. How is your keel fastened to the hull? What year was she built?
Rick

[Larks]

So i am repowering her with hydraulic propulsion.
Not sure if that is a good idea or not.. But time will tell.

The upside of a hydraulic drive is that you can mount the motor remote to the shaft and there should be less vibration, but if your vessel is already set up for a V-drive I'm wondering why you've decided to change? Another upside is that you have a decent hydraulic motor and tank you can run a few extra's off of them, such as hydraulic windlass, steering, bow thruster, but other than the bow thruster the vessel would generally be set up around such a system at the build (or rebuild) stage.

A couple of the downsides of the hydraulic system: As well as the hydraulic motor, the tank, cooling, control valve and lines will take up space that you'll need to find in there somewhere; you'll loose about 10 to 15% of power through the hydrauilic system; each of those components add to more options for failure and oil leaks.

I'm not saying don't do it, but perhaps make sure you have a good look at the pros and cons of each system before committing.

[WX]

I don't like hydraulic steering there's no feel to it.

[skuthorp]

G'day all, been missing after a brush with food poisoning. Came on when I was well out in the bay and it wasn't fun tacking back and loading the boat. Still not right, dry biscuits and flat lemonade. Won't get down to the lakes this time Leaotis.

[WX]

Sorry to hear that Jeff, hope you're back on top soon.

[RFNK]

Forget the dry biscuits, rice is better. Sorry to hear you're crook Jeff - get well soon!
Rick

[PeterSibley]

Good Luck Jeff, it can be very unpleasant .

Re hydraulics .The primary advantages appear to be the possibility of twin props and very good close quarters manoeuvrability ...perhaps Greg will correct me here if I'm wrong. The next seems to be a decent windlass system, the best really and of course being able to mount an engine anywhere it is convenient . The disadvantages are complication and unless the very best pumps and motors are used quite high tankage and cooling requirements for the oil.

[nauticalnomad]

Ive got a write up from the previous owner ill post,
The Keel is held on by 8 keelbolts i pulled 2 of them recently and they were brand new like, So left them, I think they were either 28 or 32 mm equivilent, i cant remember now.
they go down into the lead keel and then theres square cut outs in the keel where you can get access to the nuts, They are packed with putty and then tmiber blocks wedged in along with sikaflex to seal them in.

As for the hydraulics, The V drive replacement was going to cost the same etc, and so i thought id try that out, if its no good i can resell the hydraulic drive for a small loss and look at the vee drive option down the track,
Im also liking the options that come with the hydraulics, Theres a 10kva generator that can be installed inline running off the hydraulics.
I am not too keen on a bow thruster having to chop a hole in the hull etc. I steered away from a saildrive because of that.
And i couldnt have hydraulic steering either as of the non feeling etc, you cant feel the reactions as they happen.

The write up is as follows ( i cant post it as its in adobe)
And the link for the pictures is http://s1131.photobucket.com/albums/m552/nauticalnomad/

Back in 1970 Angus Primrose

designed, and Souters built, arevolutionary new boat to contest theAdmiral’s Cup series. At 44ft by 14ftand with nearly 7ft draft,Hippokampos was probably the most extremeof the new wide-hulled lightweight racing boatsof the period.Hippokampos had a long and successfulracing career, for several years in the hands ofAllan Goodfellow, and, apart from the Admiral’sCup Fastnets, she also took part in the RoundBritain and Ireland race of 1976, and finallyended up being raced by Arnold Clark (thecurrent owner of Drum) during the 1980s.In 1996 she was bought by present ownersReidulf (Rudi) and Pat Pedersen in a run-downcondition. They intended to convert her to along range cruising boat.And for a week at the beginning of October, Ijoined three sailing chums — Alec Williamson,Tim Thomas and Dick Holness — to relivesome of the thrills of sailing a true thoroughbredwhen we helped Pat bring her back to Suffolkfrom Jutland on the Baltic Sea.Rudi suffered a stroke two years ago, justafter they had laid up the boat near Aarhus inpreparation for a summer visiting Estonia andSt Petersburg, and Pat wanted the boat backnear her home in Kesgrave.It was a trip of 496 miles and took us sixdays.Apart from the first 24 hours when we battledwith a full gale off the southern end of Denmarktrying to make the Kiel Canal, we had some ofthe best sailing of the year.When we left the marina at Egå and headedsouth down the Great Belt, it was blowing forcefive to six from the west, rising in therainsqualls to force seven.We left at 3pm and by nightfall were crackingalong at 7.5 knots with two reefs in the mainand the number three furled by about a third.By the time we passed under the easternsection of the Sprogoe Bridge — which linksthe island of Fyn with Sjaelland — things weregetting decidedly lively.Dawn found us approaching the south-easterntip of Langeland where we met the full force ofa force eight gale right on the nose.After five hours of tacking backwards and

forwards along the same line in the water we
gave it our best, turned and ran north for

shelter in the small ferry, fishing, and yachtharbour of Spodsberg on the island ofLangeland.As bodies warmed and dried and stomachssettled, so spirits once again rose.We left at six the following morning for whatproved the first of some great sails — afantastic sunrise that revealed a blue/blacksea, clear blue sky and a force five to sixalmost dead on the nose.We tacked a fair bit to start with until we gota good slant rounding the bottom of Langelandand squared away for the Kiel canal.Hippokampos is equipped with a 40hpPerkins 4108 diesel driving through a Z-drive.The prop, designed for racing, is extremelyundersized and at cruising speed gives only5.5 knots — the designed hull speed is nearer7.5 knots.Still, there’s an eight-knot speed limit on theKiel Canal, which is monitored by CCTV andradar for every inch of its length, so wewouldn’t be caught speeding!We stopped the night at Rendsburg, leavingthe canal proper to go up a side channel intothe town centre marina.The following morning we chugged off downto the refuelling station at Brunsbuttel, before(surprisingly quickly) passing through the lockand out into the Elbe.We timed it to take the ebb down this long,wide, extremely busy waterway and to getthrough a tide gate well down towards theFrieslands — despite achieving speeds of overnine knots over the ground at times, wemissed it by two hours!Conditions when we cleared the lock wereforce two and mist. By mid evening wecut the motor and sailed. If the wind wouldhold at force four or five slightly east ofsouth we’d have one tack right across toHarwich!

The forecast, however, was for the wind to
veer through west to northwest and fill —

again in our favour. Needless to say it gotstuck in the west!But we eventually lay on the visitor’s berth atSuffolk Yacht Harbour on the Orwell, exactly55.5 hours after leaving the lock atBrunsbuttel — to be met by Rudi and Pat’sson Tony with champagne.Hippokampos is built of eight layers of coldmouldedmahogany ply on massive compositeframes and she was considered extremelylight for her size — about 10.5 tonnes dryweight — at the time.Today she weighs a little more, her internalaccommodation having been altered to makeher an extremely roomy, yet cosy, long-leggedcruising boat.Originally she had crew of eight, two quarterberths either side of the cockpit, and two tiersof three berths each side of the saloon.The area forward of the mast was a greatbig cavern fitted with a variety of racks andnets for storing sails and gear.When the Pedersens bought her she wasbest described as “scruffy” but essentiallysound. Some weak areas within the skin wererepaired, the interior gutted and then Rudi, anengineer by profession, set about building thenew live-aboard facilities.Now she has a comfortable pilot berth toport, with a deep storage shelf behind andlarge lockers underneath, outboard of a portsettee that also forms a good sea-berth.To starboard is more storage and abookcase, a settee, an “office” area where Patkeeps her papers and works on her laptop,and the six-seater two-winged saloon table.The heads-cum-shower room is on thestarboard side forward of the saloon. It’s wideenough to accommodate an aft-facing vacuumtoilet, large sink and vanity unit with vastcupboards behind, as well as a shower.The passageway forward is to port of thecentreline and contains two large hangingcupboards outboard.Throughout the boat there is an abundanceof large lockers.The fore cabin contains a positively palatialdouble berth, seat with locker and a storageunit. They built in a chain locker in the sharpend by installing a bulkhead with accesshatch. There’s a positively massive forehatch,

through which sails were handed in racing

days.What makes the accommodation even moreintriguing is that it is on several levels — thecompanionway deck around the galley andchart table is one level, then there’s a stepdown into the saloon, but a step up into thedinette.

contd....

[purri]

I'd be concerned abt potential rudder "issues" for lack of a more substantial skeg being fitted.

Seen a few RTW Whitbreads begging for assistance after the Southern Ocean leg.

[nauticalnomad]

part 2 contd
There’s another step down into and out of the
passageway. Although the coachroof gives the
impression of being rather low and perhaps
short for a boat this size, there’s more than
enough headroom in most of the boat for Rudi
at 6ft 2ins not to bump his head too often.
The interior is white paint and polished teak
giving the boat an airy but cosy feel.
The galley contains an Atlantic cooker,
double sink unit, built-in refrigerator, ready-use
food storage, cutlery and utensil storage.
The chart table takes a full size Admiralty
chart and has both chart storage under the lid
and a deep shelf underneath for instruments
and tools. The instrument panel is behind the
chart table.
Under the companionway steps is the original
Perkins 4108 diesel driving an offset twobladed
prop via a Z-drive. The 120-litre fuel
tank is situated under the cockpit floor.
The cockpit is huge. There’s a very deep
bridge deck on which are mounted two threespeed
genoa winches plus genoa track
clutches.
The cockpit well is divided into two sections
by a massive teak beam carrying the
mainsheet traveller.
At the aft end the cockpit opens out to
accommodate the wheel. Gas bottles and the
diesel tank for the cabin heater are carried
under the side decks by the helm position,
which by modern standards is rather exposed.
The eight-man liferaft is carried under the
helmsman’s seat. The cockpit coamings are
only about four inches high (presumably to
allow athletic young racing crews to leap up on
the decks quickly), but even in the rough and
tumble of the gale, the cockpit felt secure and
safe
Steering is via chain and quadrant drive with
both electric autopilot and an Aries wind-vane
self-steering unit on the stern. This proved to
work like magic once we cracked how to set it
up properly.
The masthead rig is quite short for a boat this
size, about 19 metres, but massive.
The Pedersens removed the running
backstays, replaced the through-mast roller
reefing gear with slab reefing, beefed up the
standing rigging from eight to 12mm wire and
fitted roller-furling headsails.
Despite this apparent de-tuning of the rig, we
were cracking along at nearly eight knots with a
single reef in the main and two rolls in the
headsail in a good force five.
Simplifying the rig has also meant that she
can be single-handed without too much fuss.
As we quickly found out, she doesn’t like
being sailed on her ear.
“Keep her fairly level and she’ll go faster. Let
her heel too far and she just digs her shoulder
in and gets slower,” said Pat, when we first
took her out.
This is a trait of these wide-bodied boats with
their fine entries forward and almost tapered-off
sterns.
The hull form gives her quite long overhangs,
a longish fin keel and a skeg rudder.
There’s a trim tab on the trailing edge of the
keel, although this is now locked in the central
position — the disadvantage of not being able
to use the tab is that she doesn’t turn as tightly
as one might expect from a fin keeler.
She tracks rather like a long keeled boat
when she’s sailing in the groove. The offset

[nauticalnomad]

Sorry.... And the last bit

prop also exaggerates the prop walk to portwhen ahead. For two years in the late 1990sRudi and Pat lived aboard the boat, sailing justabout halfway round the world, visiting theAzores, Canaries, the Caribbean and goinground Britain.Rudi has single-handed her into the Arcticand round his home country of Norway. Nowshe’s home, Hippokampos will be getting a

thorough overhaul this winter.

[Meli]

Damm, I was going to hire a little boat and take the lids fishing on the bay sometime over the next week.
Just looked at the forecast

wind, wind and more wind.
I drive along the bay every day, I seriously cant remember the last time we had one of those "water like glass" days.
Melbourne seems to have become Windy City.

[skuthorp]

Winter is the time for those Meli, I put outriggers on the sailing canoe and row for a couple of hours on Western Port. The underwater profile is much the same as the old fashioned planked rowing shells.

[purri]

And on another note that most excellent fulla Barney and I had a yarnup 'round my/me missis/our place today. Most interesting...

[RFNK]

Oi! How about letting us know what was so interesting!
Rick

[purri]

shared life experiences
politics
community politics
history of civil rights (from 1905)
cultural heritage issues
boats
building
Grantala's chances of restoration
engines
sailing
fishing
women forumites

[Portland]

Well , the silly season has started here.
Spent the morning on CG radio duty , and had to put up with foul mouthed slickers all morning , using and abusing numerous channels on 27 meg , and VHF.
If they want to use that sort of language , they should use their mobile !.
Then I managed to squeeze the ute on to the beach , and get the tender out to HS.
I wasn't in the mood for much sailing , which was a pity , because there was quite a swell outside , and she handles that a lot better as a sailboat , than a motor boat.
Didn't catch anything either , except seaweed .
But I came back a lot calmer than I went out , and it gave me time to reflect on boats etc.
I have to get something I can singlehand , because that is how most of my fishing is done.
Everything went well though , I just didn't catch anything.
Rob J.

[Portland]

Some of the people on the water amaze me.
One slicker talking to his mate (for hours) on the radio was saying he had 2 electric reels.
His mate was concerned about power drain , to which his mate replied , "yo , we just got ha started dis morning , at da jetty".
So now , he is using 2 electric reels , a fishfinder , and the radio , non stop !.
I reckon he might be a candidate for a tow in , later in the day.
Rob J.

[rufustr]

shared life experiences
politics
community politics
history of civil rights (from 1905)
cultural heritage issues
boats
building
Grantala's chances of restoration
engines
sailing
fishing
women forumites

Now there are a couple of fairly interesting topics among that lot.

[RFNK]

Now there are a couple of fairly interesting topics among that lot.

Boats and sailing, right?

Rick

[purri]

Sorta.

[rufustr]

I was thinking more Grantala and Women.

[rufustr]

"Should have her in the Harbour tonight eh?"

Witch? Grantala or the woman?

[rufustr]

Perhaps that should have been Who.

I don't think I'd want to be on Sydney Harbour tonight.