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Thread: Antipodean Boats Connection

  1. #43646
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by auscruisertom View Post
    Hey Peter yes I would love to buy some of those of you should you decide to proceed in that direction.
    I believe there could be a niche market for such fittings as new ways of rigging using Dyneema are embraced by more traditionalists and mainstream riggers.
    Tom, can you give me some line dimensions, the rigging line and the lashings size ? Any other suggestions ?
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  2. #43647
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Peter, you seem to know a thing or two about wood. Im thinking of using formply for deck repairs. That black faced stuff they use for concrete pours. Waddya think? $50 for a sheet 1800X1200x17 Heres an excerpt from Bunnings site.

    Specrite Formply is a high quality plywood produced with FSC certified hardwood timber veneers. These are glued with phenol formaldehyde resin and overlaid with a hard durable resin impregnated paper to give concrete a smooth finish. With a durable A-Type Marine bond, Specrite Formply can withstand the rigours of construction moisture. Its hard phenolic surface and high quality outer veneers make it durable and reusable.


  3. #43648
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    I'd use the best structural ply I can find, dry fit it then take it up and get it CCA impregnated. We have mob up here called Addlife Timbers that a friend who is a tradesman boatbuilder and ran his own repair yard for years. He does all the repairs that come in with CCA Grade A hoop pine or ply.

    I wouldn't use formwork ply.... but that's just me.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  4. #43649
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    I have found internal voids more than once in form ply when cutting it, and I haven't even used it much at all.

  5. #43650
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    I'd use the best structural ply I can find, dry fit it then take it up and get it CCA impregnated. We have mob up here called Addlife Timbers that a friend who is a tradesman boatbuilder and ran his own repair yard for years. He does all the repairs that come in with CCA Grade A hoop pine or ply.

    I wouldn't use formwork ply.... but that's just me.
    I dont know if there is anywhere in SA where you can get wood cca treated. We used to have a significant state owned plantation pine timber industry, but it was recently sold off, and now whole logs are shipped to china for processing. Local mills shut down and sold off.

    Doing some reading about form ply, seems the surface treatment makes it pretty much non stick. So i doubt that it would glass over succesfully. Im just concerned that ply seems to be a rot magnet, with marine being no better than any other. Maybe forget marine ply and use a cca treated product, as your mate does, except it seems the cca doesnt reach the internal plys. seems like ACQ might be better.
    Last edited by Phil Y; 08-20-2018 at 04:13 AM.

  6. #43651
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Use marine ply. Two coats of roller-applied epoxy... washed/sanded between coats. Everywhere you drill it, over-drill it and ensure fasteners go into an epoxy plug, rather than timber. At least two coats on edges. The ply and epoxy costs are the lowest cost elements of the job.

    Where I did all that on Grantala, it's fine. Where I didn't, it ain't.

    Speaking of which... doing the right thing with disposal - ie, no Viking funeral - is a $5k exercise, with the cost of disposal on top of that... at $300 a ton.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  7. #43652
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Ply decks are probably ok if the ply is well sealed, and remains well sealed. My decks are glassed over. Any fittings added get drilled oversize, filled with thickened epoxy, then re drilled correct size. Aussie marine ply is top notch, but seriously expensive. Imported marine ply used to be ok, but these days is not even remotely worthy of the name.

  8. #43653
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Agreed, nothing sticks to formply, that's really the point of the surface.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  9. #43654
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Phil, a list of treatment plants. http://www.tpaa.com.au/treatment-plants/
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  10. #43655
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    Default

    Thanks Peter. A couple of possibilities there. Mostly Mt Gambier and probably closed. But I saw at least one local.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  11. #43656
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Small boats rock View Post
    Ply decks are probably ok if the ply is well sealed, and remains well sealed. My decks are glassed over. Any fittings added get drilled oversize, filled with thickened epoxy, then re drilled correct size. Aussie marine ply is top notch, but seriously expensive. Imported marine ply used to be ok, but these days is not even remotely worthy of the name.


    That's how it's supposed to be done for sure. I still think I'd prefer to use something with a rot treatment in all laminates.


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  12. #43657
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    If you use epoxy on treated wood, ply or solid, could the copper and arsenic interfere with the bond? Maybe some testing would be good if there isn't data already available.

  13. #43658
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    I think the bond is OK but a test or 2 would be wise.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  14. #43659
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    I think I'd be using ACQ rather than CCA. CCA is done after the ply is manufactured, so it's essentially an exterior treatment. ACQ, which stands for Alkaline Copper Quaternary, whatever that means, is applied to each veneer before manufacture, so sounds to me like a better bet. Plus the epoxy plugs and edge treatment as Small Boats describes. I don't want to be doing this over again when I'm 85.

  15. #43660
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Sounds good !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  16. #43661
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    I think I'd be using ACQ rather than CCA. CCA is done after the ply is manufactured, so it's essentially an exterior treatment. ACQ, which stands for Alkaline Copper Quaternary, whatever that means, is applied to each veneer before manufacture, so sounds to me like a better bet. Plus the epoxy plugs and edge treatment as Small Boats describes. I don't want to be doing this over again when I'm 85.
    I'd be wanting to see somewhere it's been used successfully. Given the epoxy plugs, it's less of a problem... but treated pine kills screws unless you use those green plastic-coated (I think) screws.

    Keep your eyes peeled on ebay. Apparently someone is about to list some teak strips. Just the thing for a veneer deck.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  17. #43662
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Use good quality marine ply and sheathe it properly, including proper plugging of every penetration of the sheathing. A properly sheathed ply deck will last indefinitely.

    Rick

  18. #43663
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    I think some additional comments are worthwhile.

    As far as I know, only marine grade ply can be guaranteed to be void-free. If you have a void in the ply, it is going to be a rot risk.

    Marine grade ply guarantees you no compatability / adhesion issues.

    Anything else is a guess - ie, a risk. Why add risk when you can avoid it?
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  19. #43664
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Use good quality marine ply and sheathe it properly, including proper plugging of every penetration of the sheathing. A properly sheathed ply deck will last indefinitely.

    Rick
    I know that's true in theory. It's just real life that worries me. I will be glassing the upper side, no faux teak, but there's still a million penetrations. And it's a boat. Things move, cracks develop, water gets in and before you know it you've got a mushroom farm. We've all heard of glass boats with ply or other wood frames and stringers. Fully, completely encapsulated from birth, no penetrations at all, and yet 10 or 20 years down the track they are black slush. Seems to me marine ply is almost by definition unfit for purpose. It meets a standard which is not appropriate to the intended use. Absolutely fine if you want to boil it for 20 minutes, but who does that?

  20. #43665
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    I know that's true in theory. It's just real life that worries me. I will be glassing the upper side, no faux teak, but there's still a million penetrations. And it's a boat. Things move, cracks develop, water gets in and before you know it you've got a mushroom farm. We've all heard of glass boats with ply or other wood frames and stringers. Fully, completely encapsulated from birth, no penetrations at all, and yet 10 or 20 years down the track they are black slush. Seems to me marine ply is almost by definition unfit for purpose. It meets a standard which is not appropriate to the intended use. Absolutely fine if you want to boil it for 20 minutes, but who does that?
    Replace it with a foam / fibreglass sandwich then.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  21. #43666
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Tom, can you give me some line dimensions, the rigging line and the lashings size ? Any other suggestions ?
    Still trying to get my head around dyneema and dux rope sizes for an 8- 9m gaff rig. Possibly 6 to 9mm and 2 mm for the lashing. Then there is the splice to consider so I would think a 12 mm widegroove should do her.

    Possibly Matt could give us another opinion.

  22. #43667
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Phil,

    Is that gum you had milled a while ago very rot resistant ? Could it, or some other rot resistant timber be sawn / thicknessed to say 9mm . Then do the decks in double diagonal and glass sheathed . More labour intensive (but your labour's free!). I reckon this would outlast any ply deck.
    Many of our old NZ yachts were done this way- without glass . Gleam built in 1939 and is still good.

    Neil
    Last edited by Neil C; 08-20-2018 at 11:10 PM.

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