Antipodean Boats Connection

[Phil Y]

You must be quite chuffed with that Gary, good job.

[Phil Y]

Had a review of the deck repairs with Felicity yesterday evening. Decision made to replace the whole deck rather than fiddle about with repairs. Once the teak was off the starboard side it was pretty clear she'd need more than just a few Dutchmen here and there. Or even a Dutch army. I actually knew that, but was hoping to be able to get away with a bit of cut and paste, maybe half a dozen patches a foot or so square. But the reality is that more than half is bad, which really means it's going to be both easier and better to do the whole thing. I probably knew that all along, but sometimes need a bit of help with accepting reality. The reality I do accept is that my joinery is more like almost-joinery, so it's a bit of a challenge. Because of time and money constraints she will be staying in the water, and I will be proceeding a little at a time. Things that worry me for the moment are getting the outer edge of the deck off, without wrecking the top of the sheer plank. That edge is glassed over, and is largely sound, with both layers of ply epoxied together, and the teak epoxied on top. I haven't yet removed the teak from the outer edge. Is that called the covering board? It's still covering. And the places where the deck meets vertical structures. Cabins, cockpit sides, and hatches. They built the deck first, and everything else sits on top of the deck. I don't want to remove all that. So the plan is to cut the deck slightly outside of those structures, and but the new deck up to the old. Where the old is buggered, I'll have to tear out the old stuff and wiggle new in, between the deck beams and super structure. Messy.

[WX]

You must be quite chuffed with that Gary, good job.

I am indeed...time to get the next one sorted.

[WX]

Had a review of the deck repairs with Felicity yesterday evening. Decision made to replace the whole deck rather than fiddle about with repairs. Once the teak was off the starboard side it was pretty clear she'd need more than just a few Dutchmen here and there. Or even a Dutch army. I actually knew that, but was hoping to be able to get away with a bit of cut and paste, maybe half a dozen patches a foot or so square. But the reality is that more than half is bad, which really means it's going to be both easier and better to do the whole thing. I probably knew that all along, but sometimes need a bit of help with accepting reality. The reality I do accept is that my joinery is more like almost-joinery, so it's a bit of a challenge. Because of time and money constraints she will be staying in the water, and I will be proceeding a little at a time. Things that worry me for the moment are getting the outer edge of the deck off, without wrecking the top of the sheer plank. That edge is glassed over, and is largely sound, with both layers of ply epoxied together, and the teak epoxied on top. I haven't yet removed the teak from the outer edge. Is that called the covering board? It's still covering. And the places where the deck meets vertical structures. Cabins, cockpit sides, and hatches. They built the deck first, and everything else sits on top of the deck. I don't want to remove all that. So the plan is to cut the deck slightly outside of those structures, and but the new deck up to the old. Where the old is buggered, I'll have to tear out the old stuff and wiggle new in, between the deck beams and super structure. Messy.

It’s an awful job Phil but it will look better from the inside if you do the lot in one go. The inside of Redwing is very patchy in places. I did a slightly neater job this time because I was ready for it and had allowed the time for it. Here’s hoping the beamshelf is sound.

[Geftb]

Big job. Good luck Phil!

[auscruisertom]

Had a review of the deck repairs with Felicity yesterday evening. Decision made to replace the whole deck rather than fiddle about with repairs. Once the teak was off the starboard side it was pretty clear she'd need more than just a few Dutchmen here and there. Or even a Dutch army. I actually knew that, but was hoping to be able to get away with a bit of cut and paste, maybe half a dozen patches a foot or so square. But the reality is that more than half is bad, which really means it's going to be both easier and better to do the whole thing. I probably knew that all along, but sometimes need a bit of help with accepting reality. The reality I do accept is that my joinery is more like almost-joinery, so it's a bit of a challenge. Because of time and money constraints she will be staying in the water, and I will be proceeding a little at a time. Things that worry me for the moment are getting the outer edge of the deck off, without wrecking the top of the sheer plank. That edge is glassed over, and is largely sound, with both layers of ply epoxied together, and the teak epoxied on top. I haven't yet removed the teak from the outer edge. Is that called the covering board? It's still covering. And the places where the deck meets vertical structures. Cabins, cockpit sides, and hatches. They built the deck first, and everything else sits on top of the deck. I don't want to remove all that. So the plan is to cut the deck slightly outside of those structures, and but the new deck up to the old. Where the old is buggered, I'll have to tear out the old stuff and wiggle new in, between the deck beams and super structure. Messy.

To replace the entire deck sounds like the right decision .
However I am not so sure about doing it a little at a time, that is one huge job due to her size.

If I was iin your position I would consider finding someone suitable picking your weather and setting a couple of weeks aside while attempting to knock the job over in one go.

[MattSplatt]

Cruising Helmsman just payed me and a bit more than I had hoped as well...very pleased.

Eeeexcellent!

[PeterSibley]

Could you jack the cabin structure up and support it from the inside on posts while the new deck is laid beneneath it , then drop it down?

[Phil Y]

No


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[Phil Y]

It gets much more complicated at the back of the main cabin and connection to the cockpit sides and from there to the aft cabin which is built the other way. The fore and aft hatches and skylight I can remove if I need to.


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[RFNK]

Run a trimmer set to a little less than half the plywood thickness right around the cabin, hatches etc. Then do it again with the full half thickness depth. Then set up battens to guide the trimmer so that you can extend this rebate out to about 50mm (minimum). Cut all the ply away outside the rebate. Now you have a something to scarf all the new ply to.

Use a multitool with good blades to cut the covering board off and to separate the deck from the sheer plank.

Good decision to replace the whole deck. There's nothing wrong with your joinery skills.

Rick

[Phil Y]

Thanks Rick. I think my concern with the hull deck join is that I can't really see it. It's slightly rounded and glassed over. Very nicely done. But maybe a trimmer (Are you listening Father Christmas?) set to the thickness of the deck, run around the outside to nearly expose the top of the sheer plank.

[John B]

If you're going to buy one Phil , and trimmer in AU means laminate trimmer or 1/4 in collett router, have a look at the makita 18V cordless. I just want one myself.

[Phil Y]

Thanks JB. Yes that's what I thought. Needs a slim body to get close to the cabin sides I guess. And several spare bits I imagine. For when it hits fasteners at a million RPM.


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[gypsie]

Things that worry me for the moment are getting the outer edge of the deck off, without wrecking the top of the sheer plank.

Good onya Phil, The hardest part is starting it.

For my edges, at the bow i simply pulled off the deck, but it tore out some of the sheer and was annoying to have to repair.
After that i set the depth of the circular saw to about 17mm for the 18mm ply and ran a kerf about 3cm in from the edge the full length of the work zone - sheer planks being about 2.5mm thick.
Then i reefed up the ply with wrecking bars. Then took the deck pieces, over the sheer, down to close with an electric plane, and belt sander to finish. But i was absolutely sure i had all the fastenings out before i committed my planer to it.

It was as quick to do as to explain.

As for joinery skills - the epoxy will fill the gaps, the glass will cover it all over, and the paint will hide it. I don't mean to be flippant, but it doesn't have to be furniture grade joinery to be solid.

[Phil Y]

That sounds like a good approach. Worried about all the crap that's going to get into the bilge. I don't see any real way to block between the planking and the ceiling. And I've stuff gets down into some areas there really is no way to get it out. I agree about the quality required. Although it needs to look OK from inside. Unless I put some insulation and some panelling under the deck, which is possible.


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[RFNK]

Thanks Rick. I think my concern with the hull deck join is that I can't really see it. It's slightly rounded and glassed over. Very nicely done. But maybe a trimmer (Are you listening Father Christmas?) set to the thickness of the deck, run around the outside to nearly expose the top of the sheer plank.

Isn't the covering board in the way? To quote someone we know, 'some photos would be good .....'

Yep, buy your trimmer bits in bulk. I love my Makita trimmer. I don't really want a cordless one though.

Rick

[RFNK]

Can you run a groundsheet under your ceiling? Clamp it with spring clamps to the beams. Some crud will still get through but it keeps it manageable.

Rick

[Phil Y]

To replace the entire deck sounds like the right decision .
However I am not so sure about doing it a little at a time, that is one huge job due to her size.

If I was iin your position I would consider finding someone suitable picking your weather and setting a couple of weeks aside while attempting to knock the job over in one go.

I have more time than money-2 weeks at sensible rates would add up pretty quick I think.

[Phil Y]

It’s an awful job Phil but it will look better from the inside if you do the lot in one go. The inside of Redwing is very patchy in places. I did a slightly neater job this time because I was ready for it and had allowed the time for it. Here’s hoping the beamshelf is sound.

I dont think it will make a difference to the end result whether i do it in small bits or all at once. Small being a full sheet of ply.

[Phil Y]

Can you run a groundsheet under your ceiling? Clamp it with spring clamps to the beams. Some crud will still get through but it keeps it manageable.

Rick

Ceiling being the internal hull lining-no. The only thing would maybe be to stuff rags at the top of the topsides, between each rib. Probably worth doing, and might stop 80% of the stuff getting into the bilges. The larger internal areas I can cover with various drop sheets and things to catch stuff, but thats less important. Stuff that falls on benches and seats and berths can be cleaned up. Its just the stuff that gets in between the ceiling and the planks, and trickles down to the bilge, under the shower, the water tanks, the engine etc, which will stay there until we are pumping a volume of water in a gale somewhere in the Antarctic that bothers me. It will undoubtedly block the bilge pump.

[Phil Y]

Isn't the covering board in the way? To quote someone we know, 'some photos would be good .....'

Yep, buy your trimmer bits in bulk. I love my Makita trimmer. I don't really want a cordless one though.

Rick

Ill do some photos, some of the details are hard to photograph effectively. Is the covering board the outermost deck plank? Its in the way until I start cutting it. Not that theres actually a plank anyway, except for the teak overlay. I think the deck ply just meets the sheer plank. Once I start cutting, stuff goes where gravity takes it. I dont go so much for cordless either. Bloody batteries just go flat. we are on a berth so have plenty of 240 volts.

[Phil Y]

Oh and by the way, I really appreciate the advice, keep it coming. Ive never replaced a deck before, and Im sure there are lots of ways to skin the cat. The more I can base decisions on experience the better.

[RFNK]

If there's no real covering board that you want to preserve then, great! Just go with the trimmer/router set to thickness depth - but do it in several runs, going deeper each time. otherwise, it trips up and eats into the sheer etc. .

I've never replaced a whole deck either! But having replaced bits of deck, I know what I'd do next time!!

Rick

[WX]

I sanded back till I found solid ply, marked a line and then set my power saw to a depth of 10mm and went for it.

[MattSplatt]

...the stuff that gets in between the ceiling and the planks, and trickles down to the bilge, under the shower, the water tanks, the engine etc, which will stay there until we are pumping a volume of water in a gale somewhere in the Antarctic that bothers me. It will undoubtedly block the bilge pump.

Could you, after the deck removing is done but before the new one goes on, flush all that through into the bilge deliberately with a good volume of water? That way you're pumping a volume of water when you choose, and are not in a gale or the Antarctic. If you have room in the bilge you could pick it up with a more robust dirty water pump.

[PeterSibley]

I muscled JIM onto the trailer today, not sitting evenly yet and some bilge supports are needed but that's a good step in the right dirrection.

[RFNK]

Sounds like progress!

Rick

[Phil Y]

Could you, after the deck removing is done but before the new one goes on, flush all that through into the bilge deliberately with a good volume of water? That way you're pumping a volume of water when you choose, and are not in a gale or the Antarctic. If you have room in the bilge you could pick it up with a more robust dirty water pump.

Yes, good idea and I wil do that. Have done it before, particularly when a rat got aboard once while we were on the slip, and chewed all sorts of things into tiny scraps. But you know what the bilges are like, floors, limber holes. I've actually wondered about flooding the bilge so that most of the stuff floats up, but the water tanks are directly under the cabin sole,,and I don't want to be flooding that high. There's really no way to get crud out. That nut I dropped the other day when Bruce was helping me remove the stanchions? Gone forever.

[Phil Y]

I was thinking too, last night, about the trimmer around the cabin edge. Sounds good, but. It will mostly work fine, but, mostly around those edges the teak is still well adhered to the ply, and it's thickness varies quite a bit. So getting to a flat midpoint within the ply will be less than straightforward. But I think it's a case of worrying about the thing being much harder than just doing it. It will work out, the two layers of ply might even separate along the glued join.could even be possible to cut down to the join with a circular saw, then move out a coup,e of inches and cut down to the deck beams, and then pry up the top layer with my trusty chisel, leaving a nice lap joint ready to go. And with the outer edges, which are a uniform thickness, because glass comes up the topsides and about 2 1/2 inches inboard, I might do as Gypise says, cut a kerf inboard of the planking, remove the deck inboard of that, and then maybe make some cuts the thickness of the deck, athwartships, leaving nice small bits to chisel off the sheer. It'll be fine, pass my beer.

[Phil Y]

Congratulations Peter, must have been quite an effort to get her up there. Sounds like a launching is not far off? Combined with the EBS perchance?

[RFNK]

The trimmer's not going to give you a flat rebate if the surface isn't flat but that doesn't matter. Just don't go too deep! Once you've removed the remaining ply and you're left with a rebated skirt all around the cabin, then even out the rebate with a rough disc on the angle grinder. If the area close to the cabin is just too rough, then, instead, run a batten parallel to the cabin along those sections so that the trimmer will cut along the same line. It's not the only way to do it but I think it's the quickest. And you'll never regret buying a trimmer!

Rick

[Phil Y]

Always good to get another tool. Im sure its very doable.

[PeterSibley]

Congratulations Peter, must have been quite an effort to get her up there. Sounds like a launching is not far off? Combined with the EBS perchance?

A fair bit of little stuff first but launching is certainly closer.

[WX]

It’s the little stuff that consumes the time.