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Thread: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

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    Default Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    Anybody got suggestions for a decent small cruising Trimaran design?

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    Cross, Piver, The constant camber guy...

    I have a good friend with a Cross 42, and have sailed on a Piver 30, I believe. These are old school tris, not like like the new production tri's. Some where I have a book of cruising trimarans from the 70's. it lists tons of specific designs in that size range.
    There is a joy in madness, that only mad men know. -Nieztsche

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    The book is called "Racing and Cruising Trimarans" by Robert B. Harris. 1970. Charles Scribner and Sons

    in it are:
    Tchetchet 24
    Piver 30
    Piver 25
    Gougeon 25
    Dick Newick 36
    Brown 25
    Norm Cross 26
    Joseph Dobler 25
    Texas Trimaran 30
    Westell 30
    Nielson 24
    Tempest 33

    mentioned in the first 50 pages. I'm sure you can buy a cop cheap. I got mine on ebay for 5 bucks or so.

    -Thad
    There is a joy in madness, that only mad men know. -Nieztsche

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    Buccaneer 24

    Scarab has some more modern designs in that range, for plywood
    “The difference between an adventurer and anybody else is that the youthful embrace of discovery, of self or of the world, is not muted by the responsibilities or the safety-catches of maturity.” Jonathan Borgais

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    What Thad said....I have a copy as well and, in addition to the various designs, there's a lot of practical TRI advice and some great background on the history and hotbed of creativity mid 20th century in the development of TRIs.
    Live and let live

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    I would seriously like to see some of Matt Layden's new Nugget 22s on the water:









    http://smalltrimarans.com/blog/?p=6071

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    Don't know anything about these but they might be worth a look:





    http://trimarankit.com/

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    I live aboard a plywood trimaran. It is specifically a cruisiing tri--although some folks have extended the masts and raced them.. It is a Pivor--and while I think a trimaran under sail is a wonderful vessel, low speed manouvering into a marina in a cross wind is very difficult, the big problem faced by Trimaran owners in Australia (don't know about the US or elsewhere) is the reluctance of insurance companies to provide cover. I have been iunable to insure mine for some years, which makes a marina berth unobtainable and I have to use a fairly large tender to go and collect fuel and water, not to mention supplies.

    If I was to go for a trimaran of the size you mention--I would choose a Farrier (or some other similar design) trailer-tri. Problem solved--especially the one where the unattended vessel gets looted or set adrift, something that happens here from time to time.

    Good luck with the project

    Mike Banks

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    Yeah, Thanks for these responses.

    Certainly want to find a cruising design that will allow extensive coastal and a bit offshore sailing.

    Main criteria, apart from ease of build is headroom of course.

    I appreciate all those comments so far and issues regarding marinas and insurance

    I've been looking at the photos http://svfarsouth.weebly.com/index.html of Kevin in South Africa who has recently built himself a Hartley Lively 28.
    Very simple looking chine hull and outriggers, although I cant see any centreboard ?

    Any comments on this I wonder?

    Thanks so far guys.

    I bought Jim Browns The Case for Cruising Trimarans and waiting on post for The Cruising Multihull by Chris White.

    Would like to buy a more technical book which contains designs and construction details
    and discusses the maths behind the main design and scantling issues...

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    doesnot Jim Brown have a 26 he named scrimshaw... I seem to recall an article in good old boat about it...
    There is a joy in madness, that only mad men know. -Nieztsche

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    Absolutely a ton of usable space and ideas on this Horstman trimaran. And there is a trailerable version.

    http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/...tristar-24.htm


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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    I've own, live, rebuild and cruised in a Piver 36ft trimaran build out of Mahogany plywood.
    The space is great, the stability excellent (I remember throwing all the canvas she can take in 30 knots of wind, going 10 to 12 knots with ...5 degrees of heel over). Excellent space for living aboard and to repair easily.

    There was 2 things I didn't like at all about it, upwind it does not worth a damn, simply forget it. I was without engine and I do know the feeling of tacking 2 to 3 days in front of a inlet waiting the wind to change direction.

    Second the outside hull (Ama I think in english), was fastened with copper nails and were fine, the main hull with Galvanize nail you could not find any nails anymre only the rust spot where they use to be some...

    That trimaran needed 5 gallons of Antifooling for only 1 coat... So prepare your wallet
    http://www.peacefuljourney.ca/
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    Default

    The budget is a big issue. By the foot, tris are the most expensive type. I had a Brown Searunner 25, and now sail an F27 -- both great boats. But both were bought as older fixer-uppers because that's where the value is.
    The Gougeon Brothers on Boat Construction is a great resource. Also, don't miss Kurt Hughes' designs -- in my mind the best choices for a home build.
    Everybody has a right to be stupid, but some people abuse the privilege.

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    I noticed quite a few tri's down in the keys.... maybe that's a place to find a fixer upper.

    oh...wait... your on the wrong side of the pond... that won't help you.
    Last edited by Thad Van Gilder; 12-04-2011 at 07:42 AM. Reason: oops... wrong continent
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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    I should also have mentioned the winner of our host's Design Challenge III -- the Marples DC-3 trimaran. Lots of nice features, and designed to keep the construction labor and cost from getting out of control. It also folds for trailering and docking in slips very easily. The negative is that the plans aren't complete so you'd have to work with the designer on that point.

    Here's a link to the write-up in Professional Boatbuilder.

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    The Gougeon Brothers on Boat Construction is a great resource.
    http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/...ook 061205.pdf

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    Another option: Mike Leneman's L-7. Pasted a link to a website with some pics of the one I built. There's another link at the site which contains a document of all the construction details / photos while I built her in my garage (3.5 year project).

    http://home.comcast.net/~ritakend/site/

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    Damfino, to Dick Newick's Spark design is 28'+ and is conceived as a gent's daysailer, with good performance, easy to sail, limited accommodations and good looks. It's not plywood and was not a quick or inexpensive build.

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    I am currently building the first Nugget, Matt Layden's 22 foot trimaran. His plans are coming together quite well and this week I temporarily fitted the cabinsides to determine locations of ports. There are quite a few photos available of the build, should anyone be interested.

    Mike Monies- The Boat Palace- Eufaula, OK

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    Quote Originally Posted by MMonies View Post
    I am currently building the first Nugget, Matt Layden's 22 foot trimaran. His plans are coming together quite well and this week I temporarily fitted the cabinsides to determine locations of ports. There are quite a few photos available of the build, should anyone be interested.

    Mike Monies- The Boat Palace- Eufaula, OK
    We would love to see photos. Perhaps loaded up onto Picasa for general viewing, batch uploading is very quick, or on your Sail Oklahoma Yahoo site. Thanks Mike for offering to post them, there will be a lot of interest in this new Matt Layden design, and in your build.

    Brian

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    Ditto interest in seeing the build photos.
    Also, Brent, your boat looks great. How does she sail?

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    You should head over to www.smalltrimarns.com and check out the options Joe has put together on his blog. You might want to be specific about what small cruising trimaran means though as you're likely to get suggestions to camp cruise on a Trinado or buy a used Corsair 31 and everything in between.

    Dan
    Last edited by Dan St Gean; 12-13-2011 at 08:12 AM.

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    Is Matt going to be offering plans for this design?

    Quote Originally Posted by MMonies View Post
    I am currently building the first Nugget, Matt Layden's 22 foot trimaran. His plans are coming together quite well and this week I temporarily fitted the cabinsides to determine locations of ports. There are quite a few photos available of the build, should anyone be interested.

    Mike Monies- The Boat Palace- Eufaula, OK

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    The boat was commissioned by Katie and Lee Martin of Texas and plans belong to them. If the boat turns out as planned they will offer plans for sale but not until it is completed and they have had the opportunity to sail it.

    I will try to get photos into an album on Sail Oklahoma! this week and will post a notice here when I have done so.

    Mike Monies/http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SailOklahoma/

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    Good to hear, Mike. Looking forward to pics.

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    Quote Originally Posted by tomfindlay View Post
    ...
    Main criteria, apart from ease of build is headroom of course.

    I appreciate all those comments so far and issues regarding marinas and insurance

    I've been looking at the photos http://svfarsouth.weebly.com/index.html of Kevin in South Africa who has recently built himself a Hartley Lively 28.
    Very simple looking chine hull and outriggers, although I cant see any centreboard ?

    Any comments on this I wonder?....

    .
    Not typical for a tri. Looks big and deep inside. 6'3" headroom:




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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    I wonder about the effect on heeling that the shape of the outriggers have. The deep vee shape of the Hartley design I would expect to heel more than the teadrop shape of a Scarab http://www.teamscarab.com.au/scarab8/design.html

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    Hartley vs. Scarab is all about comfort vs. speed. The builder has to decide where his priorities lie. But even a slow tri in this category is fast by mono standards. It's also important to distinguish between boats that can be taken apart and trailered in pieces and those that easily fold up for trailering.
    That Hartley seems to do away with centerboard in favor of stub keels on the amas. Pretty much all its features speak to space and comfort. And tris, despite their speed image, do have a very comfortable motion for their length and weight.

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    Quote Originally Posted by MMonies View Post
    The boat was commissioned by Katie and Lee Martin of Texas and plans belong to them. If the boat turns out as planned they will offer plans for sale but not until it is completed and they have had the opportunity to sail it.
    Is this typical of how this process works? You commission a design for yourself, you own all rights to the design and then you could sell the plans yourself if you want to?

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    Depends on arrangements with the designer. In this case the plans do belong solely to Lee and Katie Martin. In some cases the agreement is that the designer retains right to sell the design to others if he thinks it might sell well. It costs more to own plans outright by the person who does commissioning.

    The Scamp is a good example of another boat I built recently that was commissioned. Small Craft Advisor magazine had it designed by John Welsford and they own the rights to the plans (Small Craft Advisor Magazine Project- SCAMP)

    Mike Monies

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    Thanks! She sails quite well. Rated PHRF about on par with the Farrier F31/F28 boats, but the mostly plywood construction makes for a fast build. The Colorado mountain lake winds make it tense sometimes, lot of sail area combined with wind shifts and fast storm fronts.

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Banks View Post
    If I was to go for a trimaran of the size you mention--I would choose a Farrier (or some other similar design) trailer-tri. Problem solved--especially the one where the unattended vessel gets looted or set adrift, something that happens here from time to time.
    Sorry for responding late to this thread.
    I can only wholeheartedly second that, Mike! And also: why systematically go for fifty over years old designs???? The book mentioned by Thad only cites designs over half a century old, where multihulls were the ugly ducklings, whose performance (and safety!!!) was miles below that of modern ones.
    "Homme libre, toujours tu cheriras la mer" (Charles Baudelaire)

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    Did I miss mention of the new Brown/Marples small cruising tri that won the Wooden Boat design competition last year? -- Wade

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    I posted a link to the Marples boat higher up -- but I still don't know if the design is being completed to the point construction plans are available. Somebody needs to build this boat!
    Everybody has a right to be stupid, but some people abuse the privilege.

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    If I were building, I'd go for a suitable modern design; If I were looking for an already built tri, I would look for a Brown Searunner 25 or 32 footer with folding amas and a trailer. These were good designs for the day, and sailed pretty well. They can be found in various states of need for much, much less than their material cost, and can be easily repaired, and "turbo'd".

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    Is a Searunner obsolete?
    I can see where one could be bought cheaper than built.
    I came very close to building a 37 Searunner rather than my ketch. They still look sweet to me.
    Pivers, yes, they are over the hill , not to mention most were built on an extreme budget.
    Modern tris look either too racy or too luxurious to my eye.
    And ultimately, out in the world, cats have come to outnumber tris by at least ten to one. I didn't see that coming!

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    Is a Searunner obsolete?

    I built a Searunner 37 and put 20,000 sea miles on it. That was many years ago but I doubt that a better cruising boat has been designed since then. There was never a sea or wind condition that the windvane would not self steer through. Certainly no need for an electric auto pilot. The center cockpit with the big centreboard case was a stroke of genius.

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    Gary, is that a photo of your 37? The designer of the searunners once said that, though he was still pretty happy with them, with new ideas available about bottom shapes, felt he would now change the curve aft on the main hull, but I was not clear on whether he would curve the rocker more or flatten it or move the point of curvature. Having experinced the searunner cockpit set up for 200+ miles as opposed to Gary's 20,000, I give my far less experienced vote for it. I thought I might miss seeing the sea over the stern directly, but I did not, and anyway, you are sitting pretty high. One can always get in the shade of the aft stateroom and watch things from the big rear port, which is a nice place to be. The thing I admired about this design (and I guess that means of most mid-size tris) is that though able for Bluewater sailing, the centerboard under the cockpit, easily managed, and listened to, let you put the boat into some truly shallow water (along with the rudder on its kick-up 'transom' which still gives some steerage even when partly kicked up). These designs get a big "wow" for versatility.

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    These designs get a big "wow" for versatility.
    Indeed. I have very fond memories of my 25. I've not since found a more comfortable and forgiving boat that size. But they are a complicated build compared to many more current designs -- endless little pieces to be cut and fit together -- and the performance is good but not what can be had in similar boats. The Marples DC-3 would be the closest current equivalent, and it's a much handier design to keep on a trailer. I did trailer my Searunner, and the first job was to find double-wide launch ramps because you can't fold it up on the water.

    The DC-3





    But here's the reality check. Three years ago when I decided to go back to a trailer trimaran after 5 years with a cat tied to a dock, I found I could pick up a Corsair F27 for under $40,000 easily, and in fact I bought one that needed some work for $26,000. And that boat was ready to be sailed when I picked it up, even though cosmetically and otherwise there were issues. So could you build something as straightforward as a DC3 for less than 30K in materials cost?
    Last edited by Woxbox; 03-25-2013 at 03:29 PM.
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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    I've sailed Mike Leneman's L7 tri and it is a hoot. Lots of room for a 23' boat. Tons of buoyancy foreward. Round botoms thanks to fiberglass pans. Everything else is ply--and comes as a kit. It telescopes for trailering.

    I was at the helm on a reach one time, under main and screecher, and the rudder stopped responding. The boat was totally happy--steadily charging along. We were flying two hulls--with no commotion whatsoever. I eased the screecher anyway.

    It's a very under appreciated design IMHO.

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    Another (non-wood) option: Ian Farrier has been taking orders on his new F22. He's going to sell kits which may offer a good labor/cost compromise to get into a boat of this type. He's close to starting up production.

    Everybody has a right to be stupid, but some people abuse the privilege.

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    Quote Originally Posted by tomfindlay View Post
    Anybody got suggestions for a decent small cruising Trimaran design?
    Tom, The DC3 trimaran that won the WoodenBoat Design Challenge III is available from John Marples, designer. It is 27 ft. long, and has accommodations for 2 persons with an additional berth for a guest. The swing-wing folding system allows trailering. See www.searunner.com website (in progress) for ordering info. Thanks, John Marples

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    I posted a link to the Marples boat higher up -- but I still don't know if the design is being completed to the point construction plans are available. Somebody needs to build this boat!
    I just spoke with John, and construction plans for the DC3 are available. Email him here:

    marplesmarine at gmail dot com

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    Tom, My DC3 cruising expedition trimaran that won the ProBoat Design Challenge III is available from www.searunner.com. The plans feature full-size patterns for all bulkheads, swing-wing folding akas for trailer transport and a twin cabin interior plan. See WoodenBoat issue #223 for details or write me at marplesmarine@gmail.com. Cheers, John Marples

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    Regarding the Marples DC-3,

    In say 15-20 knots, what would be her speed to windward and what angle to windward might typically be expected in fairly typical 'along shore' conditions? How would she go then on a reach? Is there a predicted speed wind rose for the Marples DC-3 trimaran?

    How are the beams built, then fixed in position? What is the process to retract them?

    At what wind strength would I have to put in the first then subsequent reefs?

    I mean this in a positive way, once sailing along tiller in hand, what advantage will I be expected to enjoy for taking the time, when in building mode, of building a round hulled design, compared to say a flat bottom/ sides/ single chine type arrangement, just a bit faster and smoother water flow and aesthetics - is there difference in real world performance/ handling of tri's.

    Just asking as a 'tri' curious mono sailor, going to have to try a cat/ tri one day...as a rough idea how she might be expected to perform given your considerable experience in this area.

    Thanks.

    Ed
    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 03-26-2013 at 12:06 PM.

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    Default Re: Cruising Plywood Trimaran Design max 24/26ft

    Ed -- You've just got to go out for a sail on a trimaran and find out for yourself. The first outing on a tri is a revelation for every single mono sailor I've ever taken for a sail. They can't get over the experience of sailing that fast and being that comfortable all at once. The trimaran advantage is not just about speed -- it's also about an agreeable motion, minimal heel, on most boats a dry ride, space to stretch out on the trampolines, all on a very stable platform that jibes and tacks without drama.

    If you ever visit Pennsylvania, let me know and we'll get out on the water.
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