Gartside 109

[Matti]

Hi!
Keel was laid up 4.1. 2007 and launching was 19.6.2011= five years part time fun!

Some building pictures; http://freewebs.com/maryii/

Launching; https://picasaweb.google.com/115119876647163755129/20110619#slideshow/5619988623202768370

sailing; http://dl.dropbox.com/u/32496642/New%20Folder/008.JPG
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/32496642/New%20Folder/014.JPG
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/32496642/New%20Folder/022.JPG

Matti

[JoshuaIII]

Hey Matti!
Welcome to the forum!

It's Stephane the guy building the 116a(We talked a few times via Email).... Thanks for posting your pictures.

[GregW]

Wow...what a project. What a boat!

[trango]

Fantastic work! Where are you located?

Fredrik (Umeå)

[sailboy3]

Impressive.

[wizbang 13]

!!!! Sweet

[Matti]

Fantastic work! Where are you located?

Fredrik (Umeå)

SE corner of Finland, quite near to you.

Matti

[David G]

Good work suomi boyka! She's lovely. Looks robust and ready.

[Matti]

Good work suomi boyka! She's lovely. Looks robust and ready.

Not poika anymore, merely ukko=old man (57) still going strong!

Some explaining; I have read Wooden boat magazine for many years. There have been many stories of rotten keels and broken oak ribs, reason to use laminated pine frames.(good assistant from Paul, design spec oak ribs) If I had used steamed ribs their would be ash.
There in building pictures is one for small boat that have 12 new ash ribs, oald broken was oak.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/32496642/181011/007.JPG
That is same age boat with ash ribs, none are broken!

We have here in Finland old saying; if you cut mortise to your keel, you have rotten keel. There are lots of evidence that, when planking swells, the stress will pull ribs heels up and there are cap under. We store boats grounded at winter time and then frozen water brakes keel structure and rot starts.
Reason to have flush keel upper side. I made floors to stainless steel 316 grade, no swelling, no rot, very easy to install, short bolts!!

Matti

[wizbang 13]

No Kidding. hard to find fault with this.

[Ed Armstrong]

Beautiful!

[St.J]

Stunning.
Thanks for posting.

[Alex Low]

Awesome.

Beautiful boat - rail down!

Alex

[Lew Barrett]

There's your rail down!

[ccolton]

Awesome! Inspiring!

[Matti]

Hi!
I found from my archives;
author waiting local residents for day sailing, one of the first sailings july 2011
http://db.tt/h3X6PT2N
on sailing over seven knots
http://db.tt/6QHRc7v8
after sailing
http://db.tt/fHfIItUE

Matti

[Matti]

Hi!
Does anyone know other Gartside 109 builders or sailors?
I like to have contact to them and like to see some pictures, if shy, then maybe PM be great.

I studied some threads and now, I think that I know, why American boat builders get grey when they are building a boat.
Luckily I have made the boat first and afterwards been known this forum, other way around I have not courage to start, it seems so difficult to build a boat!

Happy new year!

Matti

[JoshuaIII]

Matti you are so right
For some people building is THE adventure, sailing is not something they enjoy much...

[Slacko]

I saw a 60 foot plus yacht turn up at the marina here with no keel on and no rigging.
It was the retirement project of an engineer that had been 25 years in the making.
The old boy was now in a retirement home and one of the sons is working on it.
Truly magnificent work as well.
Stories like this are common and we need to heed the warning about getting out there before it is too late.

[Matti]

There are many people who have no idea what difference is length/ volume.
Cubic 1m side is 1m3, cubic 2m side is 8m3= eight time not twice !!!!!
Boats are by cubic, you must know that when you look your money and time you have left.
Boats cost by kg, nearly the same how long it is, someone tell it is 4$/ pound by DIY-building?
Reason to build 30 feet boat-16000 pounds x 4$=64000$, very close!

Starting is easy for money. I harvested and purchased pine logs, 16 lower ones and 2 second logs, total 9 cubic meter.
Year 2005, it was 900€(810€ for logs and 90€ for haul, owner took them to "roadside")
Road transport, 4km, truck owner asked 30€, I let 40€.
Saw milling was for "squirrel fur- trade", as we says here .
Bare wooden hull with deck, I estimate, takes about 10 000€

Matti

[JoshuaIII]

4$ a pound... Let's see...
11 200 pounds for mine x 4$ = 44 800$...

Yeah it is close to what will be final... Fastening is something that's expensive that you do not think at first specially for planking. A single rivet cost me about 1$ with the rove (A #14 screws 2" is 1.20$),

19 strakes each side = 38 strake.
2 fastening per frame crossing 38 * 26 * 2 = 1976
At least 1 butt block per strake = 38 * 8 = 304

2280 rivets, without calculating the screws in the rabbet which is at least 500.

2280 rivets * 1$ = 2280$
500 screws * 1.20$ = 600$

2880$ just for the fastening of the planking without shipping and no wood yet!

[trango]

Hmm,

Interesting! I haven't done any calculations on my project, but according to the formula it would be about 4200 lbs * 4 $ = 16800$.

I wonder if involving epoxy in the construction makes the boat cheaper (since saving on fastenings) or more expensive (epoxy is not very cheap).

Anyway, Matti, I'm very impressed by your boat - is the mast by pine or spruce?

/Fredrik

[Matti]

Hmm,

Interesting! I haven't done any calculations on my project, but according to the formula it would be about 4200 lbs * 4 $ = 16800$.

I wonder if involving epoxy in the construction makes the boat cheaper (since saving on fastenings) or more expensive (epoxy is not very cheap).

Anyway, Matti, I'm very impressed by your boat - is the mast by pine or spruce?

/Fredrik

I think, what you save fastenings, you use for epoxy.

Mast is spruce, made births mouth system, hollow, one of things that I needed help, its impossible to glue single handed with epoxy 15,25m x8 battens. I had three men to help, one was mixing epoxy, three spread with rollers.
Almost all rest I made alone, my elder son helped me to load the keel from garage to car trailer and off to shop , it weight about 160 kg, too much for me alone.(little too long load, over 8m, maybe 4m over trailer )
It was exciting to bend topmost planks alone on place, they are 42mm thick, very springy even after steaming.
If clamps slip??? All gone very well! You had to think carefully advanced, how to organised clamps and lifting heavy plank with only two hands.

Matti

[Matti]

Seeking for route to west from moorage;http://dl.dropbox.com/u/32496642/005.JPG

As you can see, we have some boulders on our coast.

Matti

[JoshuaIII]

Doing zig zag in between rocks would be something I would like to venture in a area I do not know
I can almost feel the tension into the picture

[Breakaway]

I bet there's as much bottom paint on those rocks as there are in all the boats in the harbor beyond.

Kevin

[Matti]

I bet there's as much bottom paint on those rocks as there are in all the boats in the harbor beyond.

Kevin

No, no, I think there is no paint at all, if you look echo at picture, water depth is 2,5m under Mary III keel at that location;from surface 4,3m, all other boats are outboard boats or motor boats.
Between boulders, limit is very narrow, middle 0,6m, little to SB only 0,2m and 30m forward, again 0,4m under keel , but north side of that right hand rock is 1m under keel, that is better( 30m north of that is reef under the surface)!
SE route from moorage is much wider, narrowest place maybe 25m and 1,2m under keel, some kind of zig zag there.
Last season I found couple of rocks on mooring bay(no one knew), first was when we was coming back from day sailing, 3,5kn; tumb bumb, bottom of keel, boat gone over, rock is 1,7m deep, I marked it, (later I go on it, when keel is on rock, echo marked 1,4m) other was 25m east of that mark, that was hard, we were coming thunderstorm behind , gust 15m/s, 6kn, I have found nothing broken, only wind indicator was out of order, under keel is deep marks (I have to paint it).
In that position I have exact lines now, one summer cottage flag pole and other way tall phone mast.

Edit; boulders are glacial erratic, like dropped from sky, we have them all over on land and on sea bed, some are huge, lots of 4-6m diameter.

Matti

[trango]

Looks almost as in our Swedish waters - do you have the same problems as us - the ice moves smaller boulders so the charts are not always very accurate? It's a pain when fishing...

/F

[Matti]

And big too; some years ago my friend came from ice, he had dip nets under ice, he was very upset. He has many years nets beside big boulder, good mark for slope.
The boulder was not there anymore (it was 0,5m over surface, beside depth is 3m), ice had push it downhill.
He told me; his first taught when he get to site, was that there must be something wrong in his head, it is impossible that big, 3,5-4m boulder just disappear.

Matti

Edit; in picture, rails on house roof is made from industrial dish washer handle, washer was on waste disposal area when I went to take some waste.I rip off covers, 0,5mm brushed SS -2m2, and rail, 4 nicely curved corners, free of charge.

Matti

[Matti]

This still amaze me;http://db.tt/p7CJVWTJ
180cm long leveller near CWL, other end on plank end (not on stem) and fingers fits to clearance!
First time when I studied the plans, i cud not believe how it is possible to have concave waterline on wooden boat, I taught that any screw can't pull concave plank to frame!
Maybe I managed to have right plank lining, planks are quite heavily pressing against frames.
Note copper nail; both boottop and antifouling line are mark with copper nails on every second frame.(I didn't want to cut any groove to planks)

http://www.safire.fi/pdf/SF 1600.pdf, I am going to install that to Mary III, its power consumption is low, only 0,3-0,7A

Matti

[Dr.Spoke]

Looks almost as in our Swedish waters - do you have the same problems as us - the ice moves smaller boulders so the charts are not always very accurate? It's a pain when fishing...

/F

I can't speak for your waters Matti, but it looks like my local archipelago. Trango, you have relatively shallow water compared the Stockholm archipelago, or?
But it does remind me of a conversation I had when I first moved here: I was trying to get some feel for navigation in the outer skerries, and was talking to an older guy at the boat club....
"Anybody that says they have never been aground in the archipelago has never sailed there!"

[Matti]

I think that Stocholm archipelago is much deeper than we have here, her is about the same than Fredric has Umeo.
Gulf of Finland west to Helsinki it goes deper, there are no so much long reefs beside islands than we have here east.

[Monkey Butler]

!!!! Sweet

Sweet Indeed!

What link is this image from and are there more like it there? I am severly limited in my ability to view image storage sites from work.

[Matti]

Sweet Indeed!

What link is this image from and are there more like it there? I am severly limited in my ability to view image storage sites from work.

http://db.tt/c28QCBtd
http://db.tt/2cWEDwzd
http://db.tt/i8CnSyPq
http://db.tt/dE9VfYn8
http://db.tt/C2TqXNnE
http://db.tt/zfthrV5p
http://db.tt/0DBDOiXE
http://db.tt/BGlGdxeL
The first post have some links.

[trango]

I can't speak for your waters Matti, but it looks like my local archipelago. Trango, you have relatively shallow water compared the Stockholm archipelago, or?
But it does remind me of a conversation I had when I first moved here: I was trying to get some feel for navigation in the outer skerries, and was talking to an older guy at the boat club....
"Anybody that says they have never been aground in the archipelago has never sailed there!"

Yes in Umeå we have very shallow waters - we use to say that the Umeå Archipelago is world-class, the only problem is that all the islands are two feets below the water surface... The real northern archipelago starts in Piteå, a city 200 km north of Umeå - I grew up in those waters and I must say that the sailing in those waters - in the midnight sun - is something special..

/Fredrik

[Dr.Spoke]

One day I'll have the time to take my little Ljungström up the coast for a summer. I figure start in mid May and sail till the end of september... Just to explore, and soak in the scenery, and see how far I get... But the kids need to grow a bit so the elder is self-sufficient and the younger can join for a while... And having a clear bench with no pressing projects and a healthy bank-balance would help!

[Matti]

Some kind of puzzle http://db.tt/vIBHEivX, includes all, even spare fuses! (1315€ inc shipping and all taxes )
Nothing much to see anymore http://db.tt/bvqsIdJj
Head is now more "technical" http://db.tt/vCsv31df
Some kind of storm hat will be next http://db.tt/3bCnkO2T, note the watertank filling cap; I don't like have flush because all seagull ****...easy to make some pipe and thread (one side of douplenipple ?)weld together.

I used some five hours, very easy install.

Pic from galley http://db.tt/n57MaIi5

Edit; power consumption;http://dl.dropbox.com/u/32496642/006.JPG

[Matti]

Having day off, just to cleaning my garage, hopless... only relief to see some others garage in this forum...

and play with computer , maybe now I have tool to compensate lack of worlds.

http://db.tt/LV3l8yc1

boat construction, how I did it.

[JoshuaIII]

Matti... Does that mean your deck beam was not on top of the frames and between them?

How does the deck beam hold in the air?

[Matti]

How does the deck beam hold in the air?

Deck beams are screwed to deck and the deck is hanging by shrouds from mast!


Pic is showing only the deck corner- how ply-and plank edges are covered .
Method is copied from Rod Stephens, his sketch for Eino Antinoja to build of Huh-Mari, S&S desgn.( teak deck, no glass and epoxy)
I think that, without PG permission, I should not go deeper.

[Matti]

Stephane, the answer was like the question, if you taked pea in your nostril, maybe you have taken breath now.

I realized that the construction is not as design, so PG has no copyright to that.
http://www.freewebs.com/maryii/apps/...otoid=26582692 all glued together
http://www.freewebs.com/maryii/apps/...otoid=26582693 all locker sides and bulkheads are structural members
http://www.freewebs.com/maryii/apps/...otoid=26582694, they are secured at corner 10mm through bolt,many 6x45mm screws, glued both frame and beam working as hanging knees, nine per side.
Someone are thinking bolts as fastenings, as setup, there is no pulling force, only cutting force, (is that right english?)

On design, there are, if I remember right, 5 hanging knees per side.
As designed, with steamed oak ribs, laminated hanging knees with long slim arms are must, they work well together, little flex.

Because MaryIII has laminated thicker frames, I think that stiffer plywood "hanging knee" is appropriate.
Four upper strakes and shere strake are glued together for more torsional rigidity.
So far ok, time will show?

[Matti]

I made saloon table, now it is nice to have lunch "on table" on moorings or anchor
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/32496642/011.JPG
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/32496642/016.JPG , it lower by one hand, just take locking pin off, no any loose parts fooling around
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/32496642/012.JPG , for night it fit under double berth

[Matti]

Soundman67 wrote to rebuilding my 50' scooner thread;
Over here we always separate out the heartwood. Thats why I asked.

I am very sure that in Mary III structure are no heartwood!
About 5-7cm of logs center are cut out=boats planks are cut both sides of heartwood, about half of plank is old growth reddish wood and half is pale surface growth and almost all planks are quartersawn.
Keel members are laminated 2" pine without any heartwood, stem is WO !

[Matti]

Now I can see where I am; http://db.tt/NWTn9dgr
Second hand laptop, free Open CPN 2.5.0 and BU-353 gps (37€)
With sailing boat you have sometimes odd approach angle compared to motor boat and we have lots of underwater rocks and reefs here.
Only three light "touchdowns" this summer so far!

People in USA are suffering hot and we are chilly, morning temperatures was between north 4 and south 14 degrees C, now its raining

Matti

[trango]

Very nice I really like your table! After a few seasons using a PC designed for custom installation in cars, I'm now using an Ipad with vector S57 charts for Sweden and Finland. Very convenient!

/Fredrik