Building Gilpatrick's Puddle Duck canoe

[Canoez]

When you mention staples what do you mean. Is it stapleing the two strips together where ever the clamp would be I dnt really mind having a few staple holes if it means not using clamps. The quicker i get the boat finished the better thou i have to start 1st

Staples - from a staple gun. Usually 9/16" leg length for stapling at the forms. You need to set your stapler up so that it doesn't drive them all the way down and crush the strips. Staples should only go into the strip itself, if you can, as "bridging" across a pair of strips can restrict the amount of motion the strip has if you're using cove and bead. That being said, stapling two strips together (using 1/4" staples - used between the forms to avoid chipping out the back of the strips) is often used to keep balky strips in place when they start to separate between the forms due to compound curvature.

[gstanfield]

OK, I took Tim's advice and used staples and man is it a lot quicker! This hull is not the piece of furniture that a lot of guys can build, in fact it's main purpose is to better learn the cedar strip process before building a bigger canoe for the whole family. I'm learning a lot and the progress is more than acceptable to me. So far I worked on it for three and a half hours today and laid down a half dozen strips or more.


For those wondering what the staple across the strips looks like, here is what I'm doing in places I need to hold them together:


Total investment at this point: 28.75 hours and $231.10

Thanks for looking,

[Tim Marchetti]

Looking good George. It will look great. Are you alternating sides?

[gstanfield]

Yes, alternating one strip at a time. I did get carried away this morning and did two strips on one side then came back and did two on the other to get back on track. In the pic above I am starting run #12 on this side after just finishing run #11 on the other side.

[Tim Marchetti]

Nice! She'll be closed up in no time.

[gstanfield]

Thanks Tim, I hope to have it close before bed tonight. All I have to do today is drive into town and pick up some supplies (food, diapers, etc) so I'll have most of the day to spend on the canoe.

(sometimes I wish town were a little closer)

[Tim Marchetti]

Thanks Tim, I hope to have it close before bed tonight. All I have to do today is drive into town and pick up some supplies (food, diapers, etc) so I'll have most of the day to spend on the canoe.

(sometimes I wish town were a little closer)

Good Luck. Give us a picture of the whole boat

[gstanfield]

Will do Tim, I'll get some pics tonight from various angles. The reason most pics are from that angle is the need for a tripod in the dim shop and there's something to sit the camera on just in front of the canoe I'll bring my tripod out to the shop tonight though

[gstanfield]

AI did not make as much progress today as I wanted to. I ended up having lunch with a friend while I was in town and then I decided to stop in the toy store and saw that they had clamps on sale so I bought a few more clamps of various kinds and then got home and decided to lounge a bit. In all I was able to spend about 2.25 hours on the canoe today.





Total investment at this point: 31 hours and $231.10

[Tim Marchetti]

Nice! Just keep at it.

[mrxireland]

Looking well! Looks like youll be finished in no time. I see the staples are working a treat and is helping speed things up. Ill be defo doing this with my boat. Cant wait to see yours finished now. What kind of fiberglass are you using, would it be woven roven fiberglass sheet or just fiberglass sheet. The reason im asking this is becaue on my last canoe i built i was told to use wooven roven fiberglass cloth but i dont see gill gillpatrick even mention the stuff in his book. He just says 6oz fiberglass, the stuff i can get is 200g per sqm so its nearly the same and its alot cheaper than wooven roven because if i remember correctly, its 50quid for 10m for the wooven roven but i have sourced fiberglass cloth at 10quid for 10m so as you see, theres a good bit of saving.

[mrxireland]

As for this picture, are you going to be sanding teh front o fthe canoe. The reason why im asking this is it looks to me that you might have a few gaps. Will up be filling this in with epoxy mixed with cedar flour

[gstanfield]

Yes, The ends will be shaped and any gaps (there are some) will be filled with thickened epoxy. The gaps aren't as bad as what the picture makes it look, the strips are just long and need trimming I'm not too worried about the ends as I have a special treatment in mind for those...

As for cloth, I'll be getting my cloth and epoxy the same place I always do: http://boatbuildercentral.com/

[gstanfield]

Alright, I've made some progress this week, but not as much as I'd like. I'm hoping to really improve on that the next few days though. Total count at this point I have 34.5 strips in place and at the widest point I still have another 19 strips to go. The sad part is that it looks like I'm going to come up short by two strips! Oh well, worse things have happened!

Today's progress picture is just a crummy cell phone pic, but I'll take a good one when I get further along. You can see that I have started roughing in the bow a little bit and yes there are going to be a few small holes in it where I didn't really try to get the strips perfect. That's not an issue at all and you'll understand why later on when you see what I'm doing (it's a secret for now)



Total investment at this point: 35.5 hours and $231.10

Have a great day

[mrxireland]

35 hours, thats not bad. I would have thought it would take longer to get to this stage.

[gstanfield]

35 hours includes two round trips to town (6 hours total) as well as time spent building a router table and the strongback. I figure the next one will take about 20 hours to get to this point

[gstanfield]

A little more progress today. I'll be putting at least 4 more strips in before I stop for the night, but I needed a break so I thought I'd snap some shots and show how far I have made it.

As you can see I've been hitting it hard with the staples. These last few strips are just really tough as they don't want to bend so much. I probably should have used narrower strips, but it's working as long as I don't mind the staple holes! I do feel really good about my joining. At first I just could not make two strips fit tight together and it was really making me mad. It finally clicked in my head what I was doing wrong and now each one fits better than the one before. I can't wait to get the staples out and start fairing this thing.





Total investment as of now is 37.5 hours and $231.10 and I counted up today and the hours actually laying strips is only 18.25

with experience, warmer weather and better clamping methods these things can actually go together pretty darn quick!

[Tim Marchetti]

Looking good

[mrxireland]

A

What way are you finishing the bottom of the canoe. Will you be adding one side with cedar strips then cutting a straight line so you can work to with the other cedar strips or will you be finishing just like you have in these pics because it looks to me that your doing 1 strip at each side so they fold into each other, would i be right in my thinking.

[Lewisboater]

Last (and only) time I did a strip canoe...we went t'other way. We started with the "football", getting it symmetric then stripped alternating sides until we got to the gunnel.

[gstanfield]

Interesting idea Steve, I've watched a lot of them being built, but I've never seen someone start at the bottom. It actually makes sense that it would work good

[Wavewacker]

More strips in place, getting close to the point where I must get more creative with my clamping. Here's where she sits currently:


Total investment to date: 27.25 hours and $231.10

Hi, great job and it is showing me alot. Just a comment, a kayak builder I know uses some C clamps, but he will put a small piece of plywood (1/4'' or so) between the project surface and the metal surface of the clamp. He has used all kinds of trash pieces, plastic or whatever as well. It keeps the metal from making a dimple from the pressure in the project surface.

You're probably not tightening the clamps hard enoung to dimple the wood, and I see you really know what you're doing, but just saying as a wood working project that some woods will easily dimple, like a hammer mark after driving a nail, eeeek!

[gstanfield]

Good point on the clamp marks. Most of my clamps have rubber feet on them, the ones that don't (only 2 in the above photo) are very lightly clamped in place as a guide to keep the strips in line, not any actual clamping force. Still it is a very valid point and I'm glad you brought it up.

As I've mentioned before, this is my first strip build, and only my 5th build overall. I'm mainly using this one as a learning experience for the build method and have been trying many different techniques for clamping, aligning, etc on this build. I have some more ideas that I want to try out on this canoe before I finish and I'll post the pics of the results and decide then if I like it or if it's just something to sell cheap on craiglist to buy more cedar and epoxy

Thanks again for the input and compliments and especialyl for pointing out the potential hazard of clamping incorrectly!

[JayInOz]

George you're building a twelve foot canoe using eight foot strips- so where are the joins? Have you actually spliced strips or just end glued them? How many strips do you reckon you will use?
Will Douglas Fir strips make a decent canoe? Last year I helped haul some very old doug fir timbers from a demolished livestock pavillion at the local showground to the town museum, where the volunteers planned to use them to build a shed to house more old machinery. Well the shed's finished and a lot of the beams were left over- I can buy a few lengths cheap- old growth, straight grained, fourteen feet by six" by 2 1/2"- I is grinnin' What size would you suggest I rip them? JayInOz

[gstanfield]

Well sir, like I said above this is a learning experience and so I have done different methods. I have scarfed some strips into longer ones and others I just butt jointed to see how it works. It's getting epoxy/glass inside and out with two layers of glass on the outside bottom so I'm sure it will be strong enough.

As for using fir, I'm sure it will work but I'm no expert! I've spoken with guys who have built strip planked boats from a lot of different woods with weight being one of the main considerations.

As to the size to cut your strips, I'd leave the thickness up to the designer to decide and I made mine from boards that were just over an inch thick. I get roughly 15/16" covereage per strip after you take the bed and cove cuts into consideration. Making the strips smaller would help them to bend better, but more time in laying the extra strips. I guess it would really depend on the boat you're building. My next strip project will be much larger...

Maybe a new thread would get you some answers by people who know more about this than I do. I'm just a cop pretending to be a woodworker

[JayInOz]

Maybe a new thread would get you some answers by people who know more about this than I do. I'm just a cop pretending to be a woodworker

Thanks for the reply George. I'm not to the stage of requiring a new thread yet- plenty of other jobs on the go at the moment. And nothing wrong with being a cop pretending to be a woodworker- if it was the other way around however- that would be a whole nuther animal Jay (not sir) InOz

[gstanfield]

oh yeah, it's a 14ft boat, not a 12ft

... if it was the other way around however- that would be a whole nuther animal...

Ain't that the truth! As a follow up, I just called and asked a friend who has built several strip boats and he built one once out of pine just because pine is cheap and he intended to paint it anyway. He said it worked just as good as any cedar boat he ever built, it was just a tad heavier. He figured that any wood that works good with epoxy should work just fine for a strip boat. As long as it will bend decent, the only downside being weight.

[Tim Marchetti]

oh yeah, it's a 14ft boat, not a 12ft



Ain't that the truth! As a follow up, I just called and asked a friend who has built several strip boats and he built one once out of pine just because pine is cheap and he intended to paint it anyway. He said it worked just as good as any cedar boat he ever built, it was just a tad heavier. He figured that any wood that works good with epoxy should work just fine for a strip boat. As long as it will bend decent, the only downside being weight.

Dour fir is much harder to work with, it's much heavier and it might not bend without steaming. I tried to build my first canoe with pine. It was a 10ft pack canoe and the pine would not take the bends and twist. So I ended up tearing off the pine and starting over. For a canoe that you want to carry and paddle I would only use cedar.

[gstanfield]

There you go! Like I said, I'm no expert

[Wavewacker]

And you're 5 1/2 boats ahead of me! LOL

Looking good, I want to see how you seal the bow up too!

[gstanfield]

Yes, that part will be my departure from "normal" in more ways than one...

(sorry, no spoiler. Maybe in a week or two I'll be that far!)

[gstanfield]

Just a crummy cell phone shot for tonight, but it's better than nothing. I almost have the hull closed, just a few more strips to lay and she'll be ready for fairing !!!



Total at this point: 41.5 hours and $231.10

The monetary investment is about to change as I have to order some epoxy and glass this week!

[gstanfield]

I'll go back out later with the camera and take a propert picture more fitting of this milestone, but here she is all closed up!



Total investment at this point is $231.10 and 44.5 hours including 25.25 hours laying strips! Now I gotta order some fiberglass and epoxy and do some sanding

[Tim Marchetti]

way to go!

[gstanfield]

Thanks Tim

[mrxireland]

F**king brilliant man, cant wait to see it sanded and fiberglassed. Ive been keeping a good eye on this because ill be building teh same one after i finish my row boat. Why dont you take a week of work so you can get it finished quicker so i can see it finished before i start my row boat

[gstanfield]

Thanks The cold temps in my shop are more of a factor than work. I actually only work 3 days one week and 4 the next

[mrxireland]

Thanks The cold temps in my shop are more of a factor than work. I actually only work 3 days one week and 4 the next

Im near sure that its to be warm in there for the epoxy to set properly. Do you have heaters in the workshop?

[gstanfield]

Yes. I've built several boats in this shop and dealt with cold weather and epoxy. It's not fun, but I'm experienced at making it work The issue is that it takes several hours to bring the temps high enough to work in as most days this time of year the temps are between 0 to 20F (-18 to -7C) and the shop is large and not very well insulated

It'll work out OK though, now that the stripping is done I have some time of snading before I'm ready for epoxy and if I have to I will move the whole thing into my smaller shop that is better insulated and heated, but I'd rather work on it where it is. Time will tell...

[JayInOz]

Looking good George!
Thanks for the advice Tim. Douglas fir is what I have- the only red cedar I've ever seen in my neck of the woods was thin cladding on a couple of kit homes. I'm hundreds of miles from anyone who might supply it. I have access to lots of local timber here, but the lightest of it is heavier than oak- none of it floats when dry! As for steaming- done a bit of that making recurve bows and handles for broadaxes, adzes etc. What about boiling it? Works with ash- or would fir take up too much water?
Hey Mrx howzabout hitting the edit post thingie and taking out the swearing? This is a family forum and I for one find it highly offernsive. JayInOz

[Tim Marchetti]

Looking good George!
Thanks for the advice Tim. Douglas fir is what I have- the only red cedar I've ever seen in my neck of the woods was thin cladding on a couple of kit homes. I'm hundreds of miles from anyone who might supply it. I have access to lots of local timber here, but the lightest of it is heavier than oak- none of it floats when dry! As for steaming- done a bit of that making recurve bows and handles for broadaxes, adzes etc. What about boiling it? Works with ash- or would fir take up too much water?
Hey Mrx howzabout hitting the edit post thingie and taking out the swearing? This is a family forum and I for one find it highly offernsive. JayInOz

If fir is the only wood you can use then look for designs with long smooth waterlines

[JayInOz]

Does that mean reduced stability Tim? Any suggestions? Could the extra weight be taken advantage of to make a reasonable sailing canoe? Sorry George- kinda elbowed my way in here JayInOz

[MoMan]

OK, I took Tim's advice and used staples and man is it a lot quicker! This hull is not the piece of furniture that a lot of guys can build, in fact it's main purpose is to better learn the cedar strip process before building a bigger canoe for the whole family. I'm learning a lot and the progress is more than acceptable to me. So far I worked on it for three and a half hours today and laid down a half dozen strips or more.

It's a little late for your current build, but I found bike tubes and spring clamps very effective. I could do 2 or 3 strips: get staples very tight on the forms, then go back and tighten up the fields w/ tubes and clamps.

[mrxireland]

It's a little late for your current build, but I found bike tubes and spring clamps very effective. I could do 2 or 3 strips: get staples very tight on the forms, then go back and tighten up the fields w/ tubes and clamps.

Can you define abit more exactly what you do mo. Do you lay 3 strips then put the tubes around the strips. tighten then staple then move on to the next 3 ?

Just out of curiosity, whats the max amount of strips per day can be laid

[mrxireland]

Hey Mrx howzabout hitting the edit post thingie and taking out the swearing? This is a family forum and I for one find it highly offernsive. JayInOz

Im suprised at an ozzy coming of with this,lol, because yous usely cant put a sentence together without using a swear word, abit like us irish and if this sort of thing offends you, you seriously need to get out in the real world abit more

[gstanfield]

MoMan, good suggestion. I had seen those before, but took the lazy way out

[Tim Marchetti]

Does that mean reduced stability Tim? Any suggestions? Could the extra weight be taken advantage of to make a reasonable sailing canoe? Sorry George- kinda elbowed my way in here JayInOz

You don't have to loose stability if the boat is long enough. An 18ft. boat with a 36" beam is going to be easier to plank than a 12ft. boat with a 36" beam. The modulus of elasticity of doug fir is 2 times that of cedar and it's density is 1.4 times greater. Feel free to email me, so we don't hog Georges build thread.

[MoMan]

Can you define abit more exactly what you do mo. Do you lay 3 strips then put the tubes around the strips. tighten then staple then move on to the next 3 ?

Just out of curiosity, whats the max amount of strips per day can be laid

First, I would apply glue to one strip, then press the strip firmly in place in the bead/cover and against the form, then drive staples thru the strip and into the forms. Repeat with another strip. Once the staples were in place, I positioned the tubes between the forms and held them w/ the spring clamps. As I worked my way up the sides and over the bilge turn, I applied the tubes from above the strips: Stretch the tube over the strip(s), just enough tension to pull things together, then apply the spring clamp over the strips:


As for max strips per day, I only did three or four per side each night. Someone more experienced could likely do more.

[P.L.Lenihan]

I'll go back out later with the camera and take a propert picture more fitting of this milestone, but here she is all closed up!



Total investment at this point is $231.10 and 44.5 hours including 25.25 hours laying strips! Now I gotta order some fiberglass and epoxy and do some sanding

I think you must have forgotten to add the cost of your "shutter" plank libation George! Congrats on this excellent milestone!!



Cheers!



Peter

[mrxireland]

I just found this and thought id post it here to show yous about it. Looks a good wee bit kit but the price is abit crazy TBH.

http://www.canadiancanoes.com/Staple...uctionKits.php