Little Egret: an Egret-style day sailer

[johnno]

I'm for the larger blade, with just the bottom plate, but both Ross and I are interested in the thoughts of others. I believe the larger blade would extend slightly below the lowest point of the hull, but not by much. I suspect the centre board would also likely always be down at least the same amount.

[johnw]

A while back there was some discussion here about the size and configuration of the rudder for this design.

John and I pondered the matter back when I was drawing the initial plans, and we both settled on the idea of a traditional sharpie rudder - the danger of catching crab-pot lines notwithstanding. For pure practicality a rudder mounted behind a skeg makes more sense, I think, but we both were/are interested to see how the traditional balanced rudder performs. John has experience sailing canoes in Kiribati, and is willing to experiment.

I've shown one skeg idea on this thread already, but John and I both agree that it is important to allow the stern to rise - visually as well as in fact - above the water. I think it boils down to aesthetics in the end, and changing rudders at a later date is no big deal.

Influenced by the work of John Atkin, Phil Bolger, Reuel Parker, Howard Chapelle, John Gardner and Dave Gerr about size, shape, and configuration, I've come up with a very simple arrangement which shows two different sized rudder blades and a vertical rudder post. The vertical post is required because I've specified end-plates at the top and the bottom of the rudder - a bottom-sweeping blade (gained by the use of a raked post) would generate too much drag when helm is applied (I think).

Here is a small drawing. You can see that a skeg could be added later by cutting off the balance area if required.

I know that some people have said the blade on the first drawing here looks too small, but according the the accepted rules-of-thumb, it is more than big enough. We will see.

Below is the original outboard profile showing the size of the smaller of the two proposed rudders



Here is the rudder detail drawing showing two blade sizes - larger one dashed lines. Both have substantial end plates. I must point out that John has not agreed to this drawing yet, as I've only just sent it to him.



Ross Lillistone

You can use a skeg in front of this type of rudder, as Chappelle did on his Egret types.

[htom]

Wild guess, the smaller is sufficient with the bottom plate. The larger might have the same area if you merged an electric drive lower unit into it.

[johnno]

Wow, that was a big and long day! Thank goodness it has all worked out well I think. Started straight after breakfast, skipped lunch and finished just as the sun was going down. All done with the help of my enthusiastic and talented wife. Of course this would be nothing other than a normal day in the life of a professional stitch-and-glue boat builder, but tackling this task for the first time on a 19 footer was quite daunting, knowing every layer had to follow the next before the epoxy went totally off. First step was to mask out the seams to take the 100mm double bias tape eventually.



Then I wet the full surface with unthickened epoxy. I had sanded back the tack fillet welds the night before with heavy grit paper.



About then the first of the mini-dramas hit, and they kept coming routinely over the rest of the day. I mixed my first batch of thickened epoxy ready to do the coved seams, but as I started to squeeze it on I realised straight away that it was still too runny ( I don't eat any of this stuff, so I don't know what the relative consistency of ketchup, peanut paste, nutino, nutella etc is as described in the epoxy manuals). So I squeexed that whole mix into another plastic bag and added some more thickener. Got it right, then added one more spoonful for good luck. Ended up with bad luck, as it was too tacky to spread well with the rounded spatula, and as well, the whole mix was heating up rapidly in the plastic bag in my hand. Okay, so lost that mixture, but at least I now knew my right mix was 6 plunges of the epoxy, 6 plunges of the hardener (West System) and 18 heaped teaspoons of wood flour thickener. If I'd been a little more relaxed, I might have had the brain power to convert those teaspoons to tablespoons, but the whole exercise was proceeding at about the pace of a Charlie Chaplin silent movie. Indeed, some of that background music would have suited the scenario perfectly, with me and my wife running back and forth between the boat, the epoxy mixing bench, looking for the scissors (damn, covered in epoxy), trying to clean spatulas, making more mix. You get the picture, but in the end we got it done. Took about two and a half hours I reckon to do all the seams in the boat.



With the coved seams done, but after all that time had passed, I decided to wet out each seam again with epoxy before bedding in the tape. This seemed to work fine, and the taping process wasn't too bad.



Of course it took forever as well, as I think there are about 57 seams in the whole boat. Come sundown we were both totally exhausted. The nice thing I guess about expoxy is, once you take off your mask, glasses and gloves, you're actually very clean at the end of it.





I can't finish this post without adding a shot of the lovely chief boatbuilder....I owe her a special Christmas present I think! So now it's probably time to take a break. I might do a rough sand and add another quick coat of epoxy to double check all holes are filled, but she looks pretty good. I'll pop in for a merry christmas hello to everyone, but I'm looking forward to a few days off over the festive season. Secretly, that's probably only half true, as I'm sure once my back has recovered tomorrow, and I'm back at work, I'll be wishing I was back working on Little Egret again..it's addictive this stuff (boat building, not the epoxy!)

[johnno]

CBB shot had to be added separately as I had exceeded the max number of pics..oops

[Larks]

Sounds like a massive day John, doing the epoxy rumba, well done both of you!!!

[rufustr]

Thank you for the photos John.

Great progress and very tidy work.

The photos still make the boat look smaller than it is.

Good to see incognito boat builders.

[Ross Lillistone]

Congratulations on getting the job done in one day, John.

Even though I've done it many, many times, I still find a taping job done in a single day is a tiring business. As far as I can see from the photos it is a very good job indeed.

I don't mind the look of unfilled-but-neatly-done taping under paint, but if you want to fair the tape, resist the urge to sand it - just apply a quality sanding filler mixed with epoxy and then sand the minimum amount i.e. don't sand into the glass. I usually use WEST 411 or WEST 410 depending on the application (sometimes a blend, but I don't think WEST would approve) and I extend the filler spead to about 50mm beyond the edges of the glass.

Having said all that, the glass is part of the structure of the boat and will look ok with no filler and a very light sand along the edges to remove fish-hooks.

Well done!!!

Ross Lillistone

[johnno]

Thanks Ross, and I agree, I don't mind the look of unfilled-but-neatly-done taping under paint either. I am wondering though, given the relatively soft surface of this plywood, what would you recommend as the best finish for the remainder of the interior, both floor and sides? My thinking is running along these lines. I need to strengthen it somehow against knocks and abrasion, so perhaps a thinned epoxy coat to the sides and bottom, plus a paint finish, with the floor paint having a non-slip additive. The non-slip additive would add extra build to the floor, but I would stop it short of the fibreglass seams, hence feathering them without the need to try feathering them now, if you know what I mean? The final consideration of course is that I don't want to add any more weight than necessary, and when I do, to be putting it in the right places.
cheers
John

[RodB]

Nice work... very neat. Well done. Thanks for the photos and an interesting thread. As you gain experience with this type of work, it goes faster and with less fuss... and you get to not mind it all that much, the epoxy that is.

I'm curious..... are you glassing the exterior of the hull with Fiberglass or Xynol?

If so, are you going to epoxy coat the interior before painting or varnishing?

Did you consider glassing the exterior of the side and bottom panels before assembly?

Original sharpies were built traditionally and on the heavy side... what weight range is planned on ??? ... are you planning on installing some internal ballast alongside the centerboard well?

Hope you don't mind the questions... My interest is charged when I see a design I like... and the original 28 foot version is larger than I'd want.

Please keep up the great work and documentation.

RodB

[Ross Lillistone]

John,

I roll a single, light coat of WEST105/206 over all of the exposed plywood - more for toughening purposes than to provide a total seal. I don't subscribe to the idea of putting three or more full coats of epoxy over everything on the insides, (except inside buoyancy compartments etc which will not see UV and which are well protected against physical damage). My concern is that the inside of a boat is continually subject to damage from dropped articles such as anchors etc, and is continually scratched by shingle-covered shoes. The thick epoxy coating may be tough, but it is laid up over a soft substrate and the epoxy will dent and crack. This in turn allows water in which migrates under the epoxy surface and can't get back out.

A single, light layer of epoxy will soak into the first lamination of the soft ply you are using, but it shouldn't pool or form a difficult-to-sand undulating surface. It will, however, provide a nice, stable surface for subsequent paint coating, and will be relatively easy to sand. Being a single, soaked layer, one would expect that it would allow trapped water to gradually migrate through to the surface. I also sometimes use the thinned epoxy sealers such as Hempel 599, Norseal, and Everdure. They are exceptionally easy to apply by brush. I believe that WEST have an information sheet which deals with thinning epoxy.

I am somewhat nervous about printing my comments on this subject, but I've come to my current position after many decades of building, and it has been an evolutionary process for me.

Where I want to totally seal an unprotected surface using epoxy - e.g. external hull surfaces, decks, and cockpit soles, I use woven or double-bias glass cloth set in WEST System Brand epoxy, with an additional two coats added to fill the weave of the cloth completely.

Be warned - you will get LOTS of different opinions about this subject!

Ross Lillistone

[johnno]

Hi Rod, many thanks for your kind comments. Ross has largely answered your questions I think. Basically I'm planning on finishing the interior with epoxy, probably not thinned. The exterior will be fibreglass sheathed. I'm anticipating the hull will weigh around 120kg, but we haven't finished designing the interior layout yet. It won't be heavy, that's for sure. From memory, displacement calcs were around 350kg, but Ross might correct me here.

[RodB]

John,

The reason I ask about the final hull weight and ballast is that I remember Reuel Parker mentions about his sharpies that a significant amount of ballast is added (lead sheeting) around the CB trunk to reach the LWL more or less and to get good performance. I'm guessing Ross has designed the hull to fluctuate within a general LWL, knowing the most common load will vary between 1-3 people and gear.

Ross... could you comment on the designed LWL on such a craft and how you deal with these hull shapes being built in the past quite heavy... and how you deal with that in composite lighter hulls.... ie... is the beam less to keep the hull down in the water more? Internal ballast?

Also, do you think glassing the interior an option... for a "balanced structure" so that moisture entry/escape is the same all over the hull surfaces.?

And finally do you ever glass the bottom and side panels before assembly ?

Thanks for your comments in advance.

RodB

[johnno]

Hi Rod, Ross will no doubt answer in more detail, but the boat was designed with a known use and likely occupancy, and it has always been intended to use removeable ballast, particularly when I'm sailing one-up. I'm imagining a couple of lashed in 20L water tanks to trial with. Perhaps extra rum bottles! I'm sailing in waters with many sand flats, I will be flyfishing from her, I'll be on beaches with her, and lightness and removeable ballast will be very important to deal with those times I need to manoeuvre her myself from the edge of the shore into deeper water.

[rufustr]

The water containers are a good idea.

They can be removable, or in position empty and easily filled when you need them.

The ballast weight would be adjustable as well.

Rum ballast is essential.

[Ross Lillistone]

Rod,

Thanks for the interest. At the time that I started to draw the boat I did not have a target displacement in mind. What I did was to start with a rough length and breadth in mind and then work from intuition (at least as a starting point). John wanted a hull shape reminiscent ofEgret, and so did I. But, for my own reasons, I was absolutely determined that I wasn't going to copy any proportions, angles or other design elements from the original boat. In the past I had studied many different interpretations of Egret, such as the lines published by Woodenboat showing the Bill Schwicker design, the Jon Wilson/Maynard Bray/Joel White/Dave Dillon version, and the Reuel Parker version. But for this new design I exercised great self-discipline, and kept all the books and magazines firmly closed until the hull modelling was complete! I wanted to see what sort of shape would emerge from the design brief, which was to draw an Egret-like boat of around 18ft LOA suitable for John's proposed activities. The construction process had to be brutally simple.

In order to retain the slimness required of a sharpie, I used 4' 6" beam as the starting point and started the modelling using the chine-line, as viewed in body plan (i.e. end elevation) as the determining factor for the rocker and initial displacement. I'm not sure how many other people work this way, but I find that the body plan is the place where I do the majority of my hull modelling, with particular empasis on the chine line (or turn of bilge in round-bottomed forms) and the sheerline.

Including the initial drawing there were seven iterations before arriving at a shape which suited both John and me. But the changes from the first boat were minor - John wanted a higher, more plumb stem than shown on my initial drawing, and I wanted the centre of displacement moved aft a little - but the seventh drawing was very little changed from the first one. The biggest single change from memory came when the LOA was increased to the current 18' 10-1/4". I still haven't done a comparison with the various Egret drawings around, but John used his architectural talents to produce an overlay of my lines plan over that of Egret at a suitable scale. There are significant differences, but what I found to be particularly interesting was that the bottom rockers were almost identical. I think that it would be more objective to have John comment on this comparison, but I can assure you that there was absolutely no copying done, as I determined the rocker in the body plan and hadn't looked at a set of Egret lines for a number of years.

Now regarding your question about achieving the required displacement with a light-weight method of construction, it was something in my mind right from the beginning and was one of the reasons for keeping the breadth down to 4.5ft. Even with the slim hull, I was quite surprised at the figures which came out of the first displacement calculation. I realised that we were going to have plenty of volume to play with. As drawn in the image below, the displacement is 457kg//1005lbs in salt water. The draft shown (excluding external keel batten) is 146mm/5-3/4". Sinking her an inch takes it to 557kg/1225lbs, and raising her an inch take the displacement to 354kg/779lbs. Given that the bare hull should come out at around 100kg/220lbs, there is obviously plenty of capacity to carry internal ballast if required.



Given that the boat has more displacement than required, I took the step of placing the bottom panel (12mm/1/2" ply) inside the lines of the hull, so the lines drawing is to the inside of the topside panels and the outside of the bottom panel. That way, the 12mm/1/2" bottom panel is not adding to the buoyancy of what is already a buoyant hull, and more importantly, it is providing a ballast function (27kg/59.4lbs). See drawing below.




To your other questions, I only glass internal surfaces where there is a high-wear situation such as on the bottom of an anchor well, or where the is a problem with checking of the outer ply vereer - a problem we encounter in Australia with our otherwise superb Hoop Pine ply (and which I believe you encounter with your Douglas Fir ply).

Lastly, I never pre-glass any panels which will be bent into position - I glass the outer surfaces after construction so as to avoid stressing the glass-to-plywood interface.

Ross Lillistone

[RodB]

Ross,

Thanks for your response. I'm assuming from your comments on the rocker being the same as the original Egret... that the majority of the hull's behavior characteristics will most likely be close to the same as the original Egret ... with enough load/ballast and hull weight? ....

With sharpies in this size range, I'm supposing that the draft range is similar to a larger heavier displacement hull, although everything is concentrated in a smaller scale whereby smaller changes in ballast or hull weight distribution will be readily perceptible. I think it very interesting to get some feedback on performance differences within or outside of the "sweet spot" of draft for a given hull.

It will be interesting to see how the performance changes as the draft is increased via ballast. When you consider the negatives of permanent ballast around the centerboard well, are you going to design in a water ballast system in conjunction with some permanent ballast?

When contemplating building one of the many sharpie designs available today... (where most are much lighter than their predecessors) One must ask... do you built a bit heavy (thicker bottom panels etc) or build her lighter although plenty strong and place lead sheeting around the base of the centerboard... and I suppose a well designed water ballast system should be part of the system especially for trailerability? It would be interesting to hear your point of view on approaching this issue... when considering the designed waterline and the optimal performance draft range.


RodB

[johnno]

As Ross suggested I comment, I should just say again here that, as in my original post at the beginning of this thread, it was Bill Schwicker's boat (not Egret) which has inspired me all these many years, and it was his boat that I sought to build, but revised to a shape most suitable for a 20 footer. Ross well understood this, but I'm sure he was also much more familiar with all the folklore surrounding Munroe's Egret than I was. I fully appreciated that Schwicker's boat was his version of a derivative of Egret, but regardless of whether it is/was or not, I still thought his boat was totally inspirational. Ross I'm sure had a much fuller contextual understanding of the sharpie tradition than I did, and hence, he deliberately worked from his intellectual knowledge base rather than drawings when he started to draw the lines for Little Egret.

As we refined the lines, it was actually the lines of Schwicker's two sharpies (his Egret sharpie and his 3 fathom sharpie) that I crudely overlaid on Little Egret's latest lines drawing. So we still haven't done any comparison with Egret's (albeit hypothetical) lines, and we probably won't.

Here's the overlay I did if anyone's interested. You'll have to look deeply into the drawing but it shows the profiles of Schwicker's two sharpies in black and white, with Little Egret's profile in green. The 28' Schwicker sharpie has the more vertical bow, and a more steeply rising chine to the stern. What was interesting to me was that the profile Ross and I had worked up and ended up both liking was actually a match of the 18 footers' bottom rocker and the 28 footers' shear line. Just to confuse you a little more, Little Egret's bottom is shown in black and white below the waterline.

[johnno]

I'm afraid these pics are hardly likely to raise anyone's blood pressure, but just to assure everyone that my enthusiasm for this build continues across the festive season, today I epoxied together the two 12mm ply sheets required for the centreboard, and glassed the internal faces of the two centreboard trunk sides. I'm pausing for turkey, prawns, crab, plum pudding and watermelon ( did I mention rum?) at lunch time tomorrow but before that feast lays me low for the rest of the day I'm planning to insert a couple of deck beams in the morning.

[johnno]

Having watched the start of the Sydney-Hobart, I dragged myself down on a very hot afternoon to shape and fit the bedlogs for the centreboard trunk. I forgot to allow for these when buying some hoop pine the other day and of course that timber yard was closed on Boxing Day. So I headed off to Bunnings and got myself some Tassie Oak, which I hope will be okay. I picked the straightest bits I could find, and I set up both the ply sides and the bedlogs so that if there was any curve in either,they were bending outwards in the centre rather than inwards, if you know what I mean. I figured this was erring on the safe side. I didn't want the centreboard trunk sides to have any inward-bending memory which might close up on the centreboard at some future date.

Yesterday I decided to fibreglass both inside and out the centreboard trunk sides, just to try to keep this item as protected as possible.

Having cut the bedlogs, I set the bedlogs and sides up together and planed all component to a matching profile, then tested in the boat. It all sat dead vertical with a good match to the bottom profile. Then, another round of epoxying everything together. Tomorrow will be a centreboard shaping day I guess.







For those of you who didn't pick it, yes, I am using a folding work bench for this particular task. I think Bunnings and the Chinese manufacturers do a wonderful job of helping us forgetful old fellas find their way around the various tools in the shed with these handy name tags..........not.

[Larks]

Good to see someone actually doing something constructive today John. I had every intention of getting started on a list of Christmas projects but ended up sleeping in front of the cricket after a bit of a kayak row up the Coomera river for an hour or two to burn off a few rum balls and Christmas pudding. Maybe tomorrow I might start on something productive.

[johnno]

Greg, I was very impressed by your list, but I think you should have called it a wishlist! Still, it was a perfect afternoon for a paddle. Now you've got me thinking of rum balls, how did an old rumaholic like me forget to buy those for chrissie? I shall make amends tomorrow...I'm sure I'll be off to Bunnings again for something!

[Ross Lillistone]

John,

Great to see such rapid progress. I was about to post a message showing how the drawings include offsets for the bottom of the centreboard case to allow the case and bedlogs to be accurately shaped prior to assembly. However, I was shocked to discover that I haven't drawn in, nor dimensioned, the bedlogs!!! I'm assuming that you scaled off the end view of the bedlogs from the sheet showing stations #7 & #12? At least the drawing of the case sides had offsets for the curve on the bottom face.



I'll get an up-dated drawing to you, along with one showing the expanded shape of the external keel batten. In the meantime, here are a couple of photos to show how I deal with the business of bows developing in the case sides and bedlogs: -

In the photo below, the centreboard sides complete with bedlogs (which had been attached earlier) are being glued and screwed to the head ledges (end posts). Note how the entire assembly has been clamped down along a straight bench with end post offcuts inserted into the case in way of each clamp. The idea of this process is just to bias the assembly towards being both straight and with a uniform centreboard slot. As soon as the clamps are released there is nothing other than the head-ledge glue joints to prevent the sides from bowing in or out. However, I find that if the case sides and bedlogs are kept straight during their initial assembly, and then the action shown below is carried out subsequently, the whole lot usually ends up being pretty straight and true. Any minor irregularities can be dealt with when the case is attached to the hull permanently.



Below you can see how the case is supported by blocking (seen poking out of the far left) which is the same thickness as the head-ledges to prevent the assembly sagging during the clamping and gluing process.



Ross Lillistone

[johnno]

Hi Ross, all good. Yes I took the dimensions for the bedlogs off the cross section through the centreboard case, so no dramas. I have however run the bedlogs the full length of the case, so I will have to cut the braces over the bedlogs. I thought afterwards perhaps the braces should have been continuous down the side of the case and the bedlogs shortened, but too late now, and in any case, they will all be an integral structure once epoxied in. I'm going to do that tomorrow, and I have been referencing your most helpful photos on your site all the time, but thanks also for posting those as others will also see what I've been using as a guide. For some reason some sheets of the ply had a slight bend in them, and of course the Tassie Oak also had the slightest of bends, but I thought I'd play safe. I agree, once in the boat I can also make the minor adjustments to ensure when she goes in that all is neat and square. It's all looking pretty good tonight now that the epoxy has gone off. Hope you've had a great Christmas!
cheers
John

[johnno]

Dry fitted the cb trunk together, squared her up as neatly as possible, screwed, then epoxied. Looking good, maybe some deck beams this afternoon.

[johnno]

Cut out the deck beams this afternoon and epoxied them in. There's a few tricky angles in them, and I had to cut away some epoxy fillets to bed them properly. Managed to keep working while some heavy rain came over, but in the end I had to pack it up, as I could see something with a lot of wind in it off on the horizon. The little shelter is working pretty well, but it's a pain to be slightly weather dependent. If I can cut a couple of small holes in the hull tomorrow for those ledge extensions to the centreboard trunk, I should be able to dry fit it, and cut out the floor beams which help hold it in place. I also need to cut out the braces which will support it as there's no thwart amidships. Then I'm almost ready for some more drawings from the designer



Sorry, a little blurry this one as the rain came over.

[Larks]

It really was a wet and windy arvo wasn't it, but your tenacity is inspiring! I managed to get the paddock mowed this morning and hid away in the shed this arvo during the storms to make a stand for my thicknesser and a tool trolley.

[johnno]

I envy you your shed Greg, and the goodies within it. Nice to get that done though, and boy, those keel timbers are sure looking good now. My wife mowed the paddock this morning, to give me some more boat building time..lucky boy

[wely]

I like your build I can't wait to see you fishing from her. I have always dreamed of building a sail boat to fish from. Growing up in Florida I have always had an affinity for the sharpie design. Please keep up the good work.

[johnno]

Hi Wely, yep, I think she'll be a great boat for poling over the flats and getting in some serious shallow water flyfishing. I'm planning on just using the central mast location for that, which will give me a nice fore and aft casting deck. Should be good for chasing tuna too.

[johnno]

Last job before taking a few days off. Centreboard case floor braces cut out, dry fitted, planed, bevelled and ready to go. Centreboard cut out and marked up for fairing once I return. I'm sure I'm going to have withdrawal symptoms but never mind, time to contemplate her sailing grounds for a few days and maybe get in a spot of chasing tuna on fly. Think there'll probably be some golden trevally around as well. Just need sunny skies and low winds, a big ask at the moment.

Some wood shavings to warm the heart of a stitch-and-glue boat builder...

[rufustr]

Very nice progress John.

Enjoy Poona.

[johnno]

Drop over again soon Rufus, we'll be around next week.

[Dan St Gean]

Looks good! I wish I hadn't loaned out my Sharpie book--I gotta start a sign out book so I can get these loaners back someday... Anyhow, you inspired me to reread WB 217 A Sharpie built from scrap. Good read and made the cover to boot.

Dan

[johnno]

Thanks Dan, there's three good WB reads, that one and also in WB 56 and 67. They're what got me started on this project!

Yesterday I was still away on hols and dropped into the nearest town to my fishing shack, Maryborough. I found an old Stanley Bailey No 4 jack frame and a 1" EA Berg chisel in an antique shop, $8 for the plane, and $2 for the chisel. So I spent this morning refurbing the plane. It's very sweet, and nice to have it back being used again. Then I did something that was difficult mentally to do, cut two holes in the bottom of the hull. I dry fitted the CB trunk, all looks good. I had alittle more epoxy work to do on the inside of the case, so did that, it can set tonight, and tomorrow I'll jump in and epoxy in the case.

[Larks]

That looks like quite a milestone Peter. I can't help worrying a bit about the timber that you've used on the ends of the centerboard, it looks like Radiata pine?? I know she won't be stored in the water but if it is Radiata pine it is not something I'd like to see in boat building, being prone to rot. Having said that though, I guess if it's well impregnated with Everdure and glassed it's not likely to get overly wet. What happens underneath where the stumps run through the hull?

[johnno]

Hi Greg, yep, things are moving along well. It is radiata I think, but it has been totally soaked in epoxy and will be glassed as well, so I hope no problems will eventuate. The stumps will be cut flush and used as a guide for cutting the centreboard slot. That will then be epoxied and glassed and a keel batten glassed in over the lot. Epoxy and glass or not, a heavy thump could bruise or break the glass and let moisture go through so I'll keep a good eye on it.
cheers
John (or Peter if you like )

[Larks]

Hi Greg, yep, things are moving along well. It is radiata I think, but it has been totally soaked in epoxy and will be glassed as well, so I hope no problems will eventuate. The stumps will be cut flush and used as a guide for cutting the centreboard slot. That will then be epoxied and glassed and a keel batten glassed in over the lot. Epoxy and glass or not, a heavy thump could bruise or break the glass and let moisture go through so I'll keep a good eye on it.
cheers
John (or Peter if you like )

Crumbs, sorry John. 'been a bit crook today with a bit of a bug so have been a bit doughy, I've been enjoying both your own and Peters' (in Ireland) threads and forgot who I was writing to for a moment.

[johnno]

Hope that's not an anti-fouling bug Greg! Sorry couldn't help the tease on both counts

[Larks]

No, I apply the antifoul to keep the bugs away.......

[johnno]

Go the blues!!

[johnno]

Today was another milestone day, well for me anyway; epoxying in the centreboard. I had to have a second cup of coffee in the morning just to prepare for it. I took my time doing some more adjustments to the curve on the base to get as good a match as I could with the hull rocker, trimmed the locating posts to size, and set her in. I took a lot of time to make sure she was dead vertical, and I didn't want to prefit the braces so that I could make minute adjustments and then bring in the braces later when she was set.

After lunch I cut the braces and checked them for fit. I put a hole in each one which I think will be a handy connection point. In fact, knowing where the loads will go when the board is vertical, I'm thinking of talking over with Ross the idea of putting another set of braces and a floor beam just back from the centreboard pin, so that the pin lies roughly equally in the middle of the braces, which I think would avoid any asymmetrical loading on the trunk atleast when the board is right down and exerting maximum sideways force.

For those that are interested, there is still one more 6mm doubler over the fore and aft faces of the centreboard case to reinforce the joint before she's fully braced.

No need for another coffee now, just a rum.....and tomorrow I'm off to buy some Tassie Oak for the gunwales and keel batten.

[Larks]

You really are doing a nice job of this John. I'd say your idea of another pair of braces is very well founded, I''d also be inclined to add a couple of good layers of glass tape along the seam to strengthen it even more. That lateral force on the CB case had been the cause of leaks on my Hartley, somewhere along the line the epoxy glue line had cracked and started leaking and I could see where the previous owners had ground out the seams and filled with sika over the years.

When I started fixing it quite a while ago I wasn't overly aware of what to do but ended up running a strip of fibreglass along the inside seam, at least up the inside of the case as far as I could reach, and because it was over wide for the steel plate centre board (causing a sloppy fit and a lot of weather hekm) I fitted a waxed MDF mould down the centre of the CB case and then filled it with thickened epoxy. After removing the MDF I had a nice snug centerboard. I then cleaned out the seam along the CB case (inside the cabin), filled it with epoxy as best I could and ran a strip of fibreglass along it both sides and at the ends. I reckon two would have probably been better but it seems very solid now.

[P.L.Lenihan]

Just dropping in to say how impressed I continue to be by the neat quick work you've been maintaining John,(or is it Greg )


I keep looking at your build site and the boat while wondering,as it is not clear from here, will not those posts and trees make removal of the boat from the build site somewhat tight?


Continued success!


Cheers!


Peter

[rufustr]

I don't know how you tore yourself away from Poona John, but I'm glad you did.

Great progress, and looking good.

[johnno]

Greg, you're onto it. In fact, my plan is to scratch back the epoxy fillets that you can see there now (which are no more than the squeeze-out), add a substantial fillet with a nice concave curve to it all around the case and the braces, and then before that goes off, add a fibreglass tape to the seam and epoxy in place. I think that should make it pretty sturdy. On the old 1950s Heron I did a bit of restoration work on, it was the CB trunk which was causing all the problems just like your Hartley. I figure it's for sure the most vulnerable part of the boat, so I'm trying to be careful.

Peter, aha, you're right, and for many months I discounted trying to build Little Egret here because everything seemed too tight. There's about 9' between each set of posts, and the verandah's about 8' wide at its widest, and the boat's 19' long and 5' wide. Then I hatched a cunning plan, which will probably evolve into a saga to rival that of the placement of Turtle Bay in her warm and comfortable garage home. Upside down or the right way up, she'll never make it out, but...on her side, now there's a whole new thought..nowhere is she more than 2'6" deep. I did a sketch, to test the idea, and if I can organise half a dozen OZ members of the forum, I think she'll come out on her side, into the garden, and then onto the trailer, or the grass. At least that's the theory. And you're right, if she's on her side, I'll have to stow the medicine carefully, because we wouldn't want any spillage would we



The quick around here will notice that I've swapped bow and stern locations in the build. If anyone sees any problems with this, please don't tell me now, I'll just cut out a couple of posts instead when the time comes

[P.L.Lenihan]

If anyone sees any problems, please don't tell me now, I'll just cut out a couple of posts instead when the time comes

Spoken like a true warrior builder John, who fears not the future nor wastes time with petty details......other than ensuring there is ice for the medicine,of course! I doff my cap to your esprit de corps!


Cheers!


Peter

[Larks]

You won't have any problems getting volunteers John. Just sing out when the time comes!!!!

[rufustr]

My chainsaw is sharpened and ready John, but I doubt you will need it.

[johnno]

Ha, good, I have four hands already then