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Thread: SCAMP envy/lust

  1. #71
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    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    I'm not much of a small boat sailor myself, so I cannot add much to the discussion, but I think it's brilliant how this thread has become a sort of advanced course on small boat safety and handling.

    - Norm

  2. #72
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    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    It's a testament to the solid design and community behind SCAMP that this thread did expand so much. Hearing from John and Howard was pretty awesome.

  3. #73
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    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    Spelling correction: http://smallcraftacademy.com/
    Await dreams, loves, life; | There is always tomorrow. | Until there is not.

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  4. #74
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    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    This coming from a complete newb; I love SCAMP. It might be the only boat that meets many of my criteria that I will be able to afford to build. There are better looking boats out there but adding up all its qualities, SCAMP wins IMHO.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

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  5. #75
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    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    A note on the Scamp design. Hmm, what to say. I see Scamp as a classic example of what I term a form/function design. I do not see her as the most beautiful or best looking boat I have sailed or even of the boats I currently own. She has no sexy pointed bow or heart gripping grace of line beyond description. She is not born out of the lines we often accept as classics, Warner, Rhodes, S&S, Reimers, Williams, Alden, Crocker, Luders, Herreshoff, etc, Scamp is different. I believe if her designer had changed an iota here or there her design "look" wouldn't work but it does work if one thinks beyond the classic lines of those above. There is a world of design that supports Scamps lines and looks. She fits globally as I see it supported by Asian, Indonesian, American, British, Scandinavian, of course Kiwi and many other influences.

    Scamp has the "something undefinable/indescribable" factor. There is this something about the Scamp design that simply looks right and I, like just about everyone reading here likely figures he has an eye for boats. I look at Scamp and I scratch my head trying to put my finger on the something, that's the beauty of a classic design, no one can quantify what the something is, it just works.

    So I find her one of the best looking small boats I have eyed..........period and I cannot describe exactly why. Scamp is different and that is fine by me because her different is a blend of practical benefits to the sailor that equate to the beauty of function. I believe many sailors see beauty based on function, how naturally a boat seems to fit in and on the sea. This recognition of functional beauty leads to pleasing form, (the part that grabs the eye and heart) or the form/function equation. I also call this F Squared Design. I have sailed Scamp in light and heavy air and she fits in and on the water, she is seaworthy, she possesses the "something."

    The "something" factor means that just like the great designers work above she grabs some sailors by the heart, leaves them with sweaty palms or helps them day dream a dreary afternoon away, fair enough. I am sold on her looks but my reasoning is all form/function. I figure if a boat generally looks good to the experienced and critical eye then she likely performs well because of how she looks.

    I own a Bolger (collaboration with David Hume) design named Blueberry (Book- Blueberry- A Boat of the Connecticut Shoreline, D. Hume) and I feel she is one of the most practical, functional and beautiful boats I have laid eyes on. For me a heart gripping boat, a classic (I know, I know she is my boat and of course I'd say this but every time I look at her I am uplifted, I see my better self aboard her going hard to weather). With all respect to Phil Bolger the genius who co-penned Blueberry and so many other great designs, I have to wonder sometimes when I look at the body of his work. He drew some of the sweetest lines ever laid to paper and some of the ugliest boats I have ever seen in spite of their utility and suitability for safe sailing. I respect him so much because he was not afraid to think differently and the result was his body of supremely innovative, beautiful and odd work. I am not a happy guy when I sail on an ugly boat.

    Instead I am quite invested in "how I get there" as opposed to just "getting there aboard a sailing device."

    Someone mentioned Scamp is kind of Bolger-esque looking and I think the comment meant "kind of ugly".......I have to disagree. She may be in some remote way (in the writers assessment) Bolger like perhaps because of her pram bow or other elements but in my eyes she is no ugly boat, she has the that magic "something" thing going for her in spades.

    Scamps designer has managed to hit all the performance and safety utility features in a tiny package that also seriously tugs hearts, hmmm how'd he do that? I happen to believe the toughest boats to design well are the smallest. John got this one just right. Please note I write all of this as someone with no business reason to promote Scamp, I was the independent assessor. Because I found her to be such a remarkable small boat I remain interested in the development of Scamp.

    The pram bow is easy for me as a former Fireball and current Mirror sailor. I get the real time advantages (more boat for length and the resistance to digging in her bow down wind, down wave and rounding up in heavy air), so I see the beauty. I also see history in the pram bow, a global shape with a foundation built on sea sense and time tested results.

    With Respect To All,
    howard rice
    Last edited by Howard Rice; 12-01-2011 at 02:24 AM.

  6. #76
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    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    Howard,

    With all the technical/practical information you've offered up already... I was thinking maybe I should comment on her looks. Thanks - You've saved me the trouble. I have described her as reminding me of a bulldog. A pugnacious, very capable bulldog with just a touch of attitude, but a sweet and loyal heart.

    I can also say now that she looks as good (or better) in person as my impressions of her in fotos and videos.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  7. #77
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    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    Howard and others involved in the scamp project--would an integrated tent/dodger that attaches to the hard dodger lip be a feasible solution? A bit like the Norseboat tent is what I have in mind.

    Dan

  8. #78
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    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    Hey Dan.
    Good to see your name here.
    Although I am not directly involved in the project (just the test guinea pig) I can answer with a qualified yes. No one has developed a tent or tent/bimini combo although I am quite sure sailors will begin these sorts of options soon.

  9. #79
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    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust


    "Howard and others involved in the scamp project--would an integrated tent/dodger that attaches to the hard dodger lip be a feasible solution? A bit like the Norseboat tent is what I have in mind."
    Dan

    Dan.
    I neglected to mention I had the opportunity to do the first overnight aboard a Scamp.This is how I did it as a quick set up:

    I traveled to Port Townsend from Pohnpei for Scamp testing without my normal small boat voyaging gear. With the help of friends I geared up for the 10F wind chill factor cold and high wind sailing. No Scamp tent though. The morning of the day I departed I bought a little food, flashlight, rubber boots and in the sale bin at then local hardware store I spied a 10X10 brown poly tarp on sale for $3.99, not bad. I also purchased a hank of thin (springy) nylon lashing line.

    In the NW Maritime Center shop where Scamp was stored (nice and warm as it snowed outside) we set her up for tented living aboard. I tied one end of the nylon line through the receiving hole for the mainsheet bridle and ran it forward under the lip of the coaming (outside the coaming) and around the front of the cuddy cabin and then back to the other mainsheet bridle hole. I then tightened it twang tight with a truckers hitch and was set for sleeping aboard.

    Once at anchor I draped the tarp over the down and lashed sail rig, which formed a ridge. I tucked the tarp under the nylon line on each side and tied off the corner grommets with slip knots (critical to use slip knots so the whole thing can be struck in an instant). Forward I drew the tarp together as two end flaps over the cuddy. I could close this off or slip it open to peer forward into the cold windy night.

    Scamps ports are perfect and a real necessity as during the night waves of blasting wind came through in waves. I could simply sit up ( I was very warm and secure sleeping with my head and torso inside the cuddy) and peer out the ports to check position related to shore.

    In the morning I struck the tent and made breakfast under the cuddy, a very efficient set up for instant shelter from rain, sun and wind.

    Not a bad experience for a $3.99 tarp, just glad it didn't rain though. I am sure Scamp owners will come up with some very innovative sleeping arrangements and tent, bimini/tent combinations.



    Last edited by Howard Rice; 12-01-2011 at 02:25 AM.

  10. #80
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    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    My intention when drawing the boat was that a couple of springy tent bows of the appropriate length be sprung diagonally between sockets outside the coaming, and a two surface ( liner and outer) tent be made up to suit in much the same manner as a hikers tent. The tent would have shock cord stretched along the edges and they put under hooks outside the coaming to keep those edges down. It should have a conventional tent "door" at the after end so people can open it and reach out to rinse a bucket or whatever, and that it should be laced down tight across the "cabin" just aft of the mast, with a couple of plastic tonneau hooks to stop it being pulled aft.
    This whole tent to roll up from aft forwards, and be then folded end to end to make it small enough to fit into the storage in the front of the cuddy, the poles being pulled apart and stowed under the side decks behind the coamings.

    The objective of the arched tent is to provide sitting headroom out above the cockpit seats which a ridge tent over the boom does not.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  11. #81
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    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    I was reminded of Jim Brown's Sea Runner tri with a cockpit tent which was a fold down dodger which joined with a tonneau of sorts. Kinda made the boat into a huge living area. I like well made camping tents as they flap less due to the taut pitch. Otherwise the lightweight fabric flapping makes for some poor sleep IMHO. One needn't make an sunbrella tent to stop that tendancy, but in some repsects it's nice stuff.

    Dan

  12. #82
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    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    Living aboard small boats like Scamp.

    A little food for thought or discussion.

    Since discussion has turned toward the topic of living aboard Scamp I thought posting photos of a few small boats I own, cruise and sometimes live aboard for a night or up to months at a time while cruising might be of interest. Through testing Scamp I discovered the boat offers more room and is more stable than all of the small boats I mention above. Scamp has made a number of my small pocket yachts less desirable based on the level of safety and comfort she offers in comparison.

    I have tent camped on many small boats starting with a Hobie 16 in college and running forward through time to include many different boats both large and small. I have owned boats up to 36 feet LOA but just stopped the uphill (go bigger) climb one day. For me small is the way to go and tented cockpits the answer for any boat I now own. These tents must be safe, simple to use and bone dry in a driving rain. At one time I fulfilled a development contract with the US Army for a combination sail rig/camo tent for folding boat operations. Canoe sailing friend Hugh Horton built the spars for this very interesting project.

    When I overnighted aboard Scamp I was pleased at the room I had in a boat I could easily handle by myself in almost any situation. I like her diminutive size and ample cockpit, which offers the ability to easily tent in. The hard cuddy is a great base point to anchor and deploy a cockpit tent or attach a bimini. Commercially produced custom tents are expensive because they are custom work. I design and build some of the sails I use and these sailmaking/design skills have helped me build my own shelters for small boats.

    John Welsfords bow/hoop tent is an excellent set up suggestion and one I have wanted to try for myself. I am quite sure I have seen a Welsford Navigator tented in as described. In fact I think John penned an article about it.

    The photo below is warm weather training in about 25 knots of wind hence the wild hair and inflated shorts. I post this photo to illustrate a contrast in capability. On one hand it is possible to sail a 55 pound folding wood/canvas sailing canoe hiked out in 30 knots of air and on the other hand a tired sailor can wolf down needed calories out of the weather inside a tiny shelter hanging on a sea anchor. The mini shelter was an interesting problem to solve for a 15' 2"X29" sailing canoe.

    [IMG][IMG][/

    Just for fun here is an example of a micro cruiser that comes in at 55 pounds and in a pinch can be slept aboard. This is a Klepper Aerius 1 R/B under sail during a training session. I had the experience of a three and a half month solo double rounding of Cape Horn and subsequent travels west up the Beagle Channel through Tierra del Fuego. For this trip I designed and constructed a slender (one bow) bullet shaped tent, for use aboard while drifting or at sea anchor.

    It could hardly be called a tent as I could not recline fully in the boat as I had too much food and survival gear aboard. It was more of an attached half bivy with a hard ridge, very taut actually. It was stored under the soft deck in an 18"x2" ripstop sleeve. If needed I would velcro the base on the deck foreword of my seat and pull it aft over my head with a couple of hand moves tucking it behind my back. The single bow (a light batten) was sewn into pockets. These pressed down into the top of the cloth cockpit cover wedged inside the hard coaming. In deployed configuration I was able to blow out of it in a bad situation with the swing of one arm. I only used it a few times but found the tent to be good for getting out of weather for a few minutes, for afternoon naps underway on the Beagle Channel and in the southern Wollastons to and from Cape Horn. Day light was the norm 20 hours or more each day. I also had to travel day or night when the wind would allow so I was generally always tired, 20 minute afternoon naps either drifting or with the sea anchor deployed worked.
    IMG]
    [IMG][/IM


    20' 3" Blueberry in ProvinceTown Cape Cod on my way down east to Maine from Connecticut. This was my maiden voyage aboard Blueberry (I had never seen her in person, I purchased her sight unseen from half a world away after keeping track of her for many years) after flying in from the Pacific I set about preparing her to go north and west to Michigan but ended up because of such a cold, bad weather spring to just sail north instead. So off to Maine it was. I was given access to a sewing machine and whipped up this tent in one afternoon from material I sourced locally. The sides are rolled up and the drop down nylon screening can be seen also rolled up. This tent was a little rough looking but a great success. A few times I had rain for several days. It was a good idea to make this quick tent. After a great voyage Blueberry wintered over in Maine and I returned from Micronesia the next May to retrieve her and voyage on.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    My 48 year old British Mirror Dinghy the African Queen. I have cruised this boat roughly 6000 miles over the last twenty years. Here she is after a night anchored complete with hot breakfast cooked aboard on the transom seat. I anchored her for the night with 100 feet of 3/8's rode, 8 feet of light chain and a Danforth 13 in about four feet of water on the Straits of Mackinac. It was a calm night and steady weather pattern so I just stopped sailing and dropped the hook. There is nothing quite like sleeping on a small boat in open water.

    [IMG]

    My home built 15 foot cruising canoe Sylph and the tent I built for her, fore and aft openings with screens, side doors with screens, easily erected, very strong, quiet in the wind and dry even in driving rain. This photo shows a nice feature of small boats, we can pull them on shore in bad weather and sleep aboard.

    The two dark strap looking lines on her side deck at the aft end of the tent are the straps for her submersible folding cart. This was a wild windy heavy rain night where I was forced ashore, it is blowing well over fifty mph in this photo (the front of the tent looks like it is flapping because it is). Before the storm hit I put her cart on in the water and walked her up on land. As the storm approached I got the tent up, photo taken and then I walked up the hill to a little village restaurant and watched the storm blow in. A great night sleep aboard and a sunny morning followed. I departed with 11 knots at my back.

    [IMG][

    In a pinch (no time to really prepare a tent) I have experimented with the smallest hardware store tents. In this case I spent a dry night aboard my Rhodes Robin with a $20.00 tent (I cut a hole in the floor so I could have access to stores in the boat) and this was in a real rain and and high wind situation, which is why I am sleeping aboard ashore. These little tents with a waterproof fly are actually quite useful. The hole in the floor also meant I could pull in, anchor, set the internal two pole cross design up and put the tent over my head (I would enter through the floor hole, unzip the door and attach shock corded hooks to keep it in place. No need to leave the boat to set it up. I pull a taut fly over the boom to ensure the tent was waterproof. Ended up on a two week summer cruise with this tent, not perfect but very serviceable.

    /IMG]
    [IMG]

    Another view of Slyph set for a 100 pus mile round trip ocean crossing to and from Pohnpei to Pakin and Ahnt atolls (23 miles open water to Pakin, 12 miles to Ahnt, many miles cruising inside the lagoon island to island and then about 50 sea miles back to Pohnpei), about one hundred people live on Pakin and none on Ahnt. The waterproof aft deck pack holds two tents, a land tent and the cockpit tent. Folding boat cart can be seen under the boat, when not in use it stows atop the tent pack. Sylph is a full buoyancy sailing canoe and if capsized at sea she can be righted, re-entered and sailed away without having to bail other than cleaning up a little water for comfort.

    I have posted a few additional photos in the next frame as I have run out of room for photos here.
    My hope is these photos might inspire someone to "Sail Small and Sail Now!
    Last edited by Howard Rice; 11-30-2011 at 11:09 AM.

  13. #83
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    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    [IMG]

    Slyph on a cruise. The doors are dual function. Easy in and out and for safety. I can roll up the doors and single or double blade paddle to move the boat if needed. Sliding cockpit decks are not extended in this photo as I made anchor at 1:30am after a long day under sail and just wanted to sleep and it was pitch black dark. Sleeping bag and pillow can be seen in the photo, if it had rained I would have been very dry and warm.
    I carry both a short single blade paddle and a very efficient double blade for paddling distance, I rarely if ever use the double as this boats sails in a zephyr.
    [/IMG]
    [IMG][/IMG]

    Dawn anchored in about a foot of water.

    [IMG][/IMG]

    This photo shows the sliding deck system I designed and built into Sylph. The sliding deck system is a live aboard feature integral to the tent system. I am referring to the fore cockpit deck and aft cockpit deck. These like the deck are built of spanish cedar, S glass over and heavy kevlar matt underneath, bullet proof. Typically I pull in to anchor, the mini danforth shaped anchor I made goes over the side, she rounds up and I step out to set up camp. I don't necessarily have to step out in the shallows but it sure is easier than putting the tent up from the sitting position. After releasing fastex buckles/straps (the sliding decks are attached under the deck) I push the fwd one to the mast and the aft goes back about ten inches. This dramatically increases cockpit living space. I have my living aboard set up as efficiently and simply as possible and within minutes I can be out of the rain, roasting coffee, or preparing dinner. It is a very tight set up and Scamps cockpit makes it seem almost primitive.

    Sylph has three mast positions so she can be sailed as a sloop or yawl. I designed built spars and sails to make two complete rigs that offer a wide variety of configurations for use in different conditions, (full rotating 3 pc carbon ovoid shaped mast(s) with internal halyards, quick to strike and stow below or on deck, roller furling jib). Sylph can be sailed as a sloop, yawl or cat rig.

    [IMG][/IMG]

    A good view of the flow through ventilation and noseeum nylon screens. I have been cruising Sylph in Micronesia for the last 7 years and no see um bugs with serious bites happen at dusk, screens are imperative for about an hour here at dusk.
    [IMG]

    A dewey early morning. Coffee aboard, reading Conrad's "Heart of Darkness", hot freshly roasted coffee.....doesn't get much better than this. In less than an hour I was stowed and off for another day of exploring under sail. The back port corner of the tent is unsnapped allowing slightly easier come and go access. At night the tent is drawn down tight and taut. The snap to the deck system allows me to swing up an arm or both arms and literally pull the tent down in seconds. I try to choose anchorages that are either under one foot of depth or more than five feet deep. This is because if during the night my canoe flips over I won't be trapped in her cockpit.

    This sailing canoe was recently shipped back to the US for a few planned cruises there and then in 2012 she will be shipped to the Solway Dory shop in England where I will join her later for some "cross pond" sailing with British canoe sailors. Our approaches are different and it will be interesting to see how this American sailing canoe computers to the British style.

    [IMG][/IMG]


    My wood Newick Tremolino MKIV with fully enclosed cockpit tent, rain fly is off. This makes a Tremolino a mini luxury tri. This particular MKIV Tremolino is unique because of her large enclosed hard cockpit, 180% amas and 19 foot beam. This is a high speed cruising machine and a fine boat for two. I didn't design or build this tent.

    Again thanks for reading I hope this post helps inspire sailors to get out and explore in small boats and to give sleeping aboard a try.
    If one stops to ponder the backpackers among us (I am one now and again) and the joys they have living with half a tooth brush and fly weight gear then it must be obvious that small boat cruising is the height of luxury.

    Too bad I don't have any photos of sleeping aboard Scamp. The brown poly tarp just didn't lend it self to being photogenic, maybe soon!

    Once again apologies for posting likely "not so on topic" info and photos. My hope is I haven't wasted anyones time here. I think it might be good to share ideas about life on small boats and learn what might work best on a new design like the SCA Scamp but then again perhaps the micro boat sailor is the odd man/woman out as I sure don't see many folks out and about in small live aboard boats.
    Last edited by Howard Rice; 11-24-2011 at 09:06 PM.

  14. #84
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    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    Quote Originally Posted by htom View Post
    There are over seventy sail numbers issued. There are going to be lots of SCAMPs about.
    Better make that number of plans sold 83.

  15. #85
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    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    Howard ( and others), long term cruising on minimum size boats is a subject in which I am very interested. There have been some real whacko attempts at this (remember the Harley 8 anyone?) and there will be others, and I've a couple of designs which are smaller than some pundits would consider the minimum, but the steady sales of plans for these suggests that there are lots of people out there who have dreams that they would not be able to achieve if they had to buy a 45 footer with all the electronic bells and whistles that the fancy yachting magazines seem to feel are required to go further than the marina entrance.
    In order to see what this forum thinks is a workable solution to the needs of a minimum long range cruiser, lets have some thoughts on the matter.
    To set the criteria---
    We can hypothesize, say a 63 year old guy, reasonably fit and hale but not as agile as he was at 20, a budget that will allow him to spend a couple of hundred a week on a "hobby" , half of a double garage in which to build ( he does not mind parking outside, but his otherwise indulgent wife wants her car under cover, and the street committee wont allow him to erect one of those fabric car shelters as a workshop ) .
    In two years time, at 65 yrs old, he wants to set off on a long, 12 months or so, coastal cruise. This may involve voyages of up to three days at sea in the Carribbean so the boat needs to be blue water capable. It also involves some travel in the ICW, some cold weather, and reasonably long periods when motoring will be more practical than sailing.
    Our hypothetical "customer" has very basic wood tool skills, but is a paper shuffler by trade, does not want to become a skilled boatbuilder but will learn enough to build a simple boat so we as designers need to be cognizant of his limits, after all his aim is to get this thing in the water not to produce a work of art. He's got two and a half years to build and test, and has all his usual employment and household duties.
    I'd bet that a lot of us are familiar with all that.

    So, what do we design? What creature comforts do we include, remembering that as 20 year olds we'd sleep anywhere and would put up with discomfits that would cripple us today, remember too that the 12 month voyage should be fun, not something to endure for the sake of establishing a record for the most uncomfortable boat to sail from some obscure place to another.

    What should it be built of, how big ( remember that garage, how many people have no other possible building space? Lots!) What should the interior be like, how much tankage or should he just use plastic jerries? inboard or outboard motor? Rig? Keel configuration, remembering that he will want to explore the tiny places but has to cross some wide ones as well. On and on, you get the picture.

    Last time i did this was about a long range cruising dinghy, a really practical open boat cruiser and my Pathfinder design was the outcome.
    Let the debate begin, but keep it constructive please. There is some real research going on here.

    I've reposted this on a new thread entitled, "Minimum for 12 months afloat" please post there, not here as this is the SCAMP thread.

    John Welsford
    Last edited by john welsford; 11-25-2011 at 01:53 PM.
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  16. #86
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    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    Whoa--a sticky just awarded. Cool!

    kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  17. #87
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    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    Just want to take the opportunity to wave my flag for SCAMP. That kind of endeavour is a few years off for me but I am very intrigued. I find her charming in both looks and utility. And thanks Howard for commenting on your experience.

  18. #88
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    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    Your Welcome Chris.
    It has been a pleasure to assist the Small Craft Advisor Scamp development team. A nice bunch of folks simply trying to make sure they put out the best and safest boat possible. I like that and wish more manufacturers/promoters would be as diligent and open about the boats they produce.

    I was honored to be the test guinea pig. If I didn't like the boat I suppose I would likely have remained quiet about the experience. I humbly offer that I have tested many boats in my life. It is the rare ride that gets my attention like Scamp has mainly because she is an interesting blend of safe sailing and loads of fun.

    Respectfully, I suggest to builders that they stick closely to the Scamp design sheets. She is sound as is and aside from a little customization here and there to personalize her to make her yours it is best to go with Johns design that has been refined by the build team.

    Scamp is a package of benefits or features all of which are quite closely linked. For example if a sailor decided to change the bulkhead arrangement to create a mini cabin beware as she will lose the huge benefit of being self rescuable. Her rig is of course most open to interpretation. Again however the standing lug is a very good rig for this boat, simple, powerful, weatherly, quiet, manageable, easily reefed, etc.
    Best,
    howard

    ps: Here is Scamp heading out for capsize testing, one reef in ready for work. She's part small yacht, part work boat, just the kind of small boat I like.
    [[
    Last edited by Howard Rice; 11-29-2011 at 11:13 AM.

  19. #89
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    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    For those filled with envy and/or lust here is a photo you may like.
    I like this photo as it depicts Scamps power in spite of her 11'11" LOA. A small boat that sails big. This photo was taken in about twenty knots of air.
    [/IMG]
    Last edited by Howard Rice; 11-29-2011 at 11:22 AM.

  20. #90
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    2,919

    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    Great shot, Howard. She looks like a little stormer.

    - Norm

  21. #91
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Fort Collins, Co
    Posts
    7,665

    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    I don't know about envy, but lust? Yes, much lust.
    Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business.
    TOM ROBBINS, Even Cowgirls Get the Blues



  22. #92
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    171

    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    So who here is building a SCAMP, I see that Kenjamin has committed, anyone else?
    Anyone in New Zealand? Aussie? UK?
    Hows progress?

    Cedric Rhyn

  23. #93
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Hobart, Tasmania
    Posts
    94

    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    SCAMP #15 well underway with the build here in Tasmania. Should have her planked up within the next month. Plans are great with no problems. No doubt in my mind that this is the boat design that will get John Welsford into heaven - and all the others at SCA for sponsoring it !!

    John Hall
    Last edited by JDMH; 12-01-2011 at 01:50 AM.

  24. #94
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    4,978

    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    Here in the UK a Dinghy Cruising Association member is quietly getting on with building his SCAMP. Also the first kit cut here in the UK is just about to start building as well.

    Brian

  25. #95
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    McKinleyville, CA
    Posts
    30

    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    Dang--just about the time I think I might have settled on a design to create sawdust on, some new design shows up that seems to meet just a few more of the ideas I have in mind... I'm not so sure "lust" or "envy" are the appropriate adjectives to describe my feelings; perhaps more like "admiration" or just, "yeah..." True, she's no slender and pointy little testosterone-dripping look-at-me boat (I wouldn't drive a fast pointy-nosed car if I could afford one...) but she has the lines that just seem to catch the eye and hold it for a while; kinda like the easy-on-the-eyes cute girl next door, as opposed to the gorgeous built-for-speed anorexic magazine cover model... While I may be impulsive on some things I do, I am going to sit back and reason this whole thing out for a while; I'll scour the web for any sliver of info I can get on this wee beastie, watch the videos, read the reviews, and hopefully, get an in-the-flesh look at, and the gods willing, maybe even some tiller time on this boat before I "pull the trigger" on plans and materials. And yes, I will likely end up with one of these--because it is just so, "yeah....."
    "I will sail my vessel, 'til the river runs dry; like a bird upon the wing, the waters are my sky..." ~Garth Brooks~~

  26. #96
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    171

    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    Its interesting, there are a few people who vow and declare that they could never own a boat with a pram bow, but "listening " to those who have actually seen a SCAMP up close and in the plywood, or even better, who have sailed one, you can hear the grin on their faces when they talk about it.
    Welcome to the fan club Viking.

    Cedric, who thinks that SCAMP is, in its 11 ft 11 in long way, a game changer.


    Quote Originally Posted by North Coast Viking View Post
    Dang--just about the time I think I might have settled on a design to create sawdust on, some new design shows up that seems to meet just a few more of the ideas I have in mind... I'm not so sure "lust" or "envy" are the appropriate adjectives to describe my feelings; perhaps more like "admiration" or just, "yeah..." True, she's no slender and pointy little testosterone-dripping look-at-me boat (I wouldn't drive a fast pointy-nosed car if I could afford one...) but she has the lines that just seem to catch the eye and hold it for a while; kinda like the easy-on-the-eyes cute girl next door, as opposed to the gorgeous built-for-speed anorexic magazine cover model... While I may be impulsive on some things I do, I am going to sit back and reason this whole thing out for a while; I'll scour the web for any sliver of info I can get on this wee beastie, watch the videos, read the reviews, and hopefully, get an in-the-flesh look at, and the gods willing, maybe even some tiller time on this boat before I "pull the trigger" on plans and materials. And yes, I will likely end up with one of these--because it is just so, "yeah....."

  27. #97
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Oakland, CA
    Posts
    463

    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    Viking, there seems to be a Scamp here on the Bay built by Dan Phy. Here's a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0C6Mr1HmPc I bet if you wrote a note to the Advisor folks, they would get you in touch with him and you could hitch a ride. I just might myself.

  28. #98
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    On the river, Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    4,610

    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    I have had the opportunity to stand anonymous alongside two different SCAMPs and listen to many conversations , and have heard only one or two question the need for the transom bow, most think the boat is "cute" . In fact I'd go so far as to say that the only negative feedback I've had in that respect has been from people who've not seen the boat in person.
    John Welsford

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric Rhyn View Post
    Its interesting, there are a few people who vow and declare that they could never own a boat with a pram bow, but "listening " to those who have actually seen a SCAMP up close and in the plywood, or even better, who have sailed one, you can hear the grin on their faces when they talk about it.
    Welcome to the fan club Viking.

    Cedric, who thinks that SCAMP is, in its 11 ft 11 in long way, a game changer.
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  29. #99
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    CT, USA
    Posts
    10,466

    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    I've had a look but couldn't find a good answer; about how long would it take a competent (professional) woodworker to build SCAMP? I have a little experience with epoxy so I don't see the learning curve being too hard for me in that respect either. Let's assume, for now, that I would not buy the CNC kit.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

  30. #100
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    49,402

    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    Quote Originally Posted by john welsford View Post
    I have had the opportunity to stand anonymous alongside two different SCAMPs and listen to many conversations , and have heard only one or two question the need for the transom bow, most think the boat is "cute" . In fact I'd go so far as to say that the only negative feedback I've had in that respect has been from people who've not seen the boat in person.
    John Welsford
    John,

    I had the same experience at Port Townsend. Standing next to Scamp - on the hard - and listening to the various comments. Howard was aboard and answering questions. The closest thing I heard to a negative was people saying they saw no use for such a tiny little boat. Several of them were then asked aboard. After sitting in the cockpit, under the awning, and seeing what sort of storage space there was in the cuddy and in those sneaky other spots... they all came back down the ladder exclaiming what a BIG boat it was for its size. To a lesser degree, I heard the same sort of thing after the SailBye. People were not surprised that such a small hull would be so responsive, but they were surprised at how quick she was.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  31. #101
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    On the river, Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    4,610

    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    It would depend a great deal on the standard of finish required, and I've not built one myself, but would guess at about 160/180 hours to get her ready to paint ( lockers and underfloor painted)
    Mike Monies has built two, one not quite complete as we write. I'll ask.
    John Welsford

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    I've had a look but couldn't find a good answer; about how long would it take a competent (professional) woodworker to build SCAMP? I have a little experience with epoxy so I don't see the learning curve being too hard for me in that respect either. Let's assume, for now, that I would not buy the CNC kit.
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  32. #102
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    northwestern Wisconsin
    Posts
    3,719

    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    I agree with a couple of points:

    1. I don't like pram bows, but I like SCAMP. It has the look of a pugnacious bulldog, or (even more so) an angry duckling. It's cool. Not because of the pram bow, but not despite the pram bow, either. There's a harmony to the entire design that just looks right. And women really seem to dig it--that alone ought to make it worth a lot to husbands like me who have a hard time dragging their wives aboard.

    2. SCAMP is not a small boat at all. It's a very high-volume boat, with big freeboard and lots of room. But somehow it keeps almost all the convenience of a much smaller boat.

    3. I'm sure others have made this point, but SCAMP is way faster than it deserves to be if you go by looks or length. I got to sail with John Welsford in the red SCAMP at Oklahoma and even with an inexperienced helmsman (me), we handily outdistanced many longer boats on a 4-mile windward leg. Of course, a lot of that had to do with John telling me where to steer!

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  33. #103
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    217

    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    Mike Monies here. I think John W's estimate of time to build a hull to painting stage of about 180 hours is probably correct.
    Because I was cutting and building two simultaneously on the Boat Palace floor, side by side, it may have speeded things a bit but it made it hard to judge accurate build time for just one hull. I was able to move from hull one to hull two with not much down time.

    Because we were working before plans were actually complete for the 11'11" hull I was referencing John W's original 10'4" version's plans in the build. There are no changes in the hulls' design but a few changes such as the mast stepping system which would slow things down a bit, as a lot of fitting of pieces is required. The Scamp forum on SCA's site documents and includes photos of the builds. There are also a lot of build photos over on our Sail Oklahoma! group site, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SailOklahoma/ in the photo albums. Hundreds, actually.

    Everywhere I take the Red Scamp people comment on the "cuteness" and remark that it reminds them of a little toy boat.
    This is probably due to the red and white color scheme. It is a total "chick magnet" from ages two to eighty women, all ages seem to love it.

    Some of the conditions I have sailed the Red Scamp in would give pause to most boats,even larger ones. It is a tough and tenacious craft. I completely refinished her after this summer, she deserved it, and she is like new again.

    For anyone who is near Lake Havasu, Arizona and would like to see or ride/sail in her, I invite you to come in February, 2012 to the Pocket Cruisers Covention, where she will be along with Howard Rice, myself and hopefully Dan Phy's #6 Scamp.

    Mike Monies

  34. #104
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    northwestern Wisconsin
    Posts
    3,719

    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    Quote Originally Posted by MMonies View Post
    Mike Monies here.
    Welcome to the Forum, Mike--about time you showed up here. Two posts? You have enough material for 2,000--and that's just from this year's Everglades Challenge!

    Take care, and thanks again for hosting Sail Oklahoma. I don't know any nicer folks than you and your family. Later,

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  35. #105
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    49,402

    Default Re: SCAMP envy/lust

    Welcome, Mike!
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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