SCAMP envy/lust

[kenjamin]

With SCAMP the compartments are integral to the strength of its monocoque structure. With the CY you are adding unnecessary weight to an already sound structure. The only known recorded capsize of a CY was when one tripped over its own anchor line in three feet of fast moving water. I shouldn't say that its not possible to capsize one but it is pretty darn difficult. I just think with the CY there's lighter ways to add flotation. Boat fenders have worked well for me. They're multi-use. You can roll the boat on them if necessary, use them for flotation and actually use them as boat fenders occasionally.

[WI-Tom]

I just think with the CY there's lighter ways to add flotation. Boat fenders have worked well for me. They're multi-use. You can roll the boat on them if necessary, use them for flotation and actually use them as boat fenders occasionally.

Yep, flotation/buoyancy is the important thing, not so much how it's achieved. Your way is lighter, which offers definite advantages. I like half-decked boats so I might put up with the weight, especially if I didn't need to do much rowing.

Tom

[Desert Sailor]

When I met Howard at last fall's PT Wooden Boat Festival, he was kind enough to take a few minutes out to take a look at a CY hull and offer some ideas for how to make it a little more solo-cruiser-bulletproof. He commented favorably on the strength of the hull and its suitability for coastal camping/cruising. His major suggestion was to run the seats all the way to the hull (seal the gap) and put some flotation bags under the seat -- such that in the (unlikely) event of a capsize it would float a little higher and prevent the boat from flooding too much.

I asked him if he thought the CY a capable microcruiser for Puget Sound and NW waters. His answer, paraphrased: it's a stout boat, and a few tweaks can make it safer. But the biggest safety factor is the skipper's brain. Plan for the worst, and practice.

I'm working from memory here -- apologies to Harold if I'm putting words in his mouth. But I think I've got it right.

Getting a little off topic here...sorry...
--
Mark

[kenjamin]

Ya know guys if we couldn't wander off the topic once in a while this forum stuff could get kind of boring. The flotation topic is especially interesting because if done wrong it can cause problems at the worst possible moment. Don't remember which of my Bolger books I read it in but Phil Bolger, if I remember correctly, did not like symmetrical distribution of the flotation because it made the boat too stable when completely up-side-down. He liked the flotation carried high in the ends and then more on one side or the other. Some guys seem to think that sealing in the side seats on the big CY would solve everything but in fact could cause a lot of hours hanging on to a boat that's belly up and doesn't want to do anything else. Granted that condition is near impossible to attain with a CY but it's something to consider.

What's so great about the SCAMP being smaller and lighter is that us feeble human beings can have a greater effect on righting the boat no matter what. Of course it's great and helps a lot if your mast is part of the flotation scheme. Not only must it float but it needs to be strong and well secured to prevent the boat from going belly up. On the other hand, it could be very useful if there is also a way to loosen the mast and pull it out of its step if you're somehow are too weak or injured to right the boat with the mast in place.

I think Howard Rice's comment about the skipper's brain being the biggest safety factor is right on the money. "Plan for the worst and practice" is great advice. That reminds me. I never did do those capsize drills I wanted to do with Xena last summer.

[Howard Rice]

Hello All
Hanging in an airport traveling from Sail Havasu at the moment. I will try to find time to respond to the above postings soon.
Raced The red Scamp with Mike Monies at Havasu, some big air and storm sailing, just what I like.
110 or so boats of all types and sizes hit the start lines. Scamp was the smallest boat racing and acquitted herself
admirably.

With respect to Mike her owner I will let him or others report results, needless to say
Scamp with her apprx 10ft waterline finished very well in both races.
Mike again Thank you for asking me to sail with you. I had a great time.
We made a good team.

Mike bent on the new Scamp class sail for race 2. It is a beautiful setting sail and once he changes out
his boom and makes a few other minor changes his boat will be even faster. I would like to note that
Mikes Scamp is not optimized for racing and still she performed well enough to impress many if not all the larger competitors, which means the whole fleet.
Respectfully,
howard

[keyhavenpotterer]

Hi Howard, a picture of the new Class sail on Mike's SCAMP (with you steering?). Looking good, and as you mention just needs a stiffer boom now with the loose foot sail.

Picture from the SCA SCAMP forum

[WI-Tom]

That's a great picture.

Tom

[Adrian Valley]

Hi Kenjamin,

I am curious about your twin rudder idea. Given that you see so many small boats with the motor to one side, why is it advantageous to put your motor in the middle of the transom? I suppose the balance might be slightly better, but wouldn't the twin rudders complicate things on what is essentialy a simple boat?

Cheers,

Adrian

[kenjamin]

Hi Kenjamin,

I am curious about your twin rudder idea. Given that you see so many small boats with the motor to one side, why is it advantageous to put your motor in the middle of the transom? I suppose the balance might be slightly better, but wouldn't the twin rudders complicate things on what is essentialy a simple boat?

Cheers,

Adrian

With my move back to my hometown and birthplace of St. Augustine I landed three miles down the Matanzas River. My cottage is right around the corner from the boat ramp on the intercoastal waterway but often the current and wind are not cooperating and I find myself using the motor more than when I had access to the open Gulf of Mexico back in Tallahassee. With the motor playing a more prominent role I thought it should have a more prominent position on the boat. I already own a 4 HP Yamaha which is quite over-sized for the little SCAMP so another reason I chose to bring it inboard of the transom was to make it easier (and simpler) for me to use in my forthcoming old age (I'm 62). Those are pretty good reasons for bringing the motor inboard and centrally locating it in a small inboard well but I have to confess the real reason has more to do with love, art and humor than any real immediate need. As it turned out the name for the boat is quite long and I needed for it to be displayed prominently on the transom without being marred by the presence of a stinkpot. My Caledonia Yawl, Xena, was named so because she was battling convention with her birdwing mast much like Xena, Warrior Princess, battled the lowlifes on television each week. When my first wife and I were battling her cancer, that show became the one escape from reality we both enjoyed each week. Even though it was kind of a silly show it still gave us both something to look forward to in an otherwise desperate situation especially after she became bedridden. My wife lost her battle with the illness but the show will always remind me of the love we had for each other.

So you see, it didn't take me long to come up with the name of Gabrielle for my SCAMP. With its birdwing mast, bowsprit, inboard motor well and twin rudders, she too will be battling convention but in a fun, sidekick sort of way.

[Adrian Valley]

Well Kenjamin, with a reason like that, you can put that motor where ever you bloody well like and no one has the right to say different... Go for it mate, you are a breath of fresh air.

That said I did note in the dim and distant past that some builders, like Paul Groom with Varuna (Pathfinder build), found that the well caused some reverberating sounds in the boat, so the motor ended up back on the transom.

I'm curious as I'm close to opting for a Scamp build and my likely useage will involve an early morning motor out to the fishing grounds and a sail back once the wind/swell kicks in. I'd really appreciate it if you were willing to keep me posted about how it goes.

Cheers,

Adrian

[kenjamin]

Thanks Adrian for the heads up on the reverberation issue with the well. I will be making it as small as possible and I guess now I may double up the wall thickness on the well sides. One thing going for me is that at hull speed the 4 HP will probably only be at 1/2 throttle and it hums along like a sewing machine at that speed. We'll be fishing out of Gabrielle also so interested on your thoughts on that. The water ballast will probably become the location for the live well and I don't have any idea how that will work until I get further along on the build when it's easier to visualize everything. Another thing going for me is that for fishing there will only be two of us because more than that and we will just take Xena out. The way I envision fishing on Gabrielle is that one guy will have the starboard side of the boat and the other guy the port side. In any case, Gabrielle will give me a smaller boat to solo in – one small enough for me to manhandle myself for years to come or if two of us, everything will be in close reach for either of us – live well, motor, rod holders and drink racks. Lately my cousin and I have been fishing out of his little flat bottomed outboard 14' skiff that he built himself (and that he loves) but he's not the one getting pounded to death in the bow when there's a chop. My hope is that Gabrielle can lure him into a slower (and cheaper) pace that also includes some sailing later in the day when the wind picks up. The two of us used to do a heck of a lot of fishing together when we were kids so it's really neat to be fishing again with him some fifty years later. Here's some tasty red drum we caught just after Christmas.

[Paul356]

Yes, a very nice article. Nice to see Welsford getting that sort of well-deserved recognition with a broader audience. His designs are quite impressive. They're "real boats" and then some, and that came through in your article and photos.

David,

thanks for the kind words--I really enjoyed writing that piece, and getting to spend so much time with John and his wife. Nice folks. Thanks again for your help IDing photos. I should be getting my hands on a copy of the issue pretty soon, but I haven't seen it yet.

Tom

[Howard Rice]

Ditto
Tom you did a very nice job with the article, well done. I too have spent time with John and Denny. I have been very aware and appreciative of Johns designs for more than twenty years. Spending time with him as well as co-presenting and sailing with him at the Northwest Woodenboat Festival last September was enjoyable except for one factor..............John Welsford has one serious character flaw (aka blessing) his whacky sense of humor. He has to be on my top three list for punsters. He kept all of us who were hanging with him in stitches.
Very pleased to count him among my friends.
howard

[Howard Rice]

Hello
I will address the CY question in another thread in a couple of days. Just now into the US from weeks of travel through Manila, China and the Sail Havasu event in Arizona, my molecules are finally catching up. Before I do I will review and think through the question.

FYI: Sail Havasu was a very unique week unlike any sailing event I have attended. I was honored to deliver the keynote and a presentation on Soloing Cape Horn in a wood canvas sailing canoe. Most importantly I recognized how many experienced small boat sailors were in attendance. Hopefully for 2013 the wooden boat and home built percentage of attendees will go up (I believe there were over 300 sailors attending this year). I sailed with Mike Monies aboard his Scamp and we had a great time. Mike is a wooden boat builder in Oklahoma and a fine sailor.

There was great wind, spectacular scenery, serious lighthearted laughter every day and an organizer (Sean Mulligan plus great assistants) who did a superb job. I hope to attend again next year. If I can schedule a trip to Havasu I plan to offer a Small Craft Skills Academy in conjunction with the event either before during or after. If you have snow on the ground where you live and a trailerable or car top wooden boat consider heading west to the 2013 Havasu Pocket Cruisers Convention. The lake is quite an interesting cruising area, canyons, mountains, lots of seclusion. Seventies and sunny in the day time and high forties at night.
Best,
howard

[BobW]

Howard is right - Sail Havasu is a unique sailing experience. I was pleased to catch up with old friends and made many new friends. The sailing was great, the scenery spectacular and there was plenty of wind. The seminars were interesting and informative. Howard's presentations were well received.

I was privileged to help a bit with the building of a Welsford Sherpa dinghy as a boat-building demonstration. The project drew considerable attention and, at the end of the week, the boat was donated to the Sea Scouts.

I certainly plan to return to Lake Havasu next February, perhaps even go a few days early to enjoy cruising the lake and explore some of those secluded coves. It would be great to see more home-built boats attend, too.

Bob Wessel
Fenwick, MI
Building Gardens of Fenwick, a Welsford Pathfinder

[MMonies]

Hi Mark-

Hope your wife liked the Scamp when we met in Albuquerque last week. The Scamp cockpit is remarkably large and roomy and one of most comfortable I have ever sailed.

While I am not especially tall, Andrew Linn my partner in the Everglades Challenge last year is well over 6 feet and a really big ex-Marine. We lived, sailed and slept, ate on the Scamp during entire race, almost round the clock. Then we got stuck in the mud and the togetherness continued until we could be extracted.

I would not advocate this kind of closeness but we managed to not kill each other!

Hope the seating fit your size and your wife liked it. Jackie likes the seating, the cockpit and the fact it sails so flat, the high sides keep the cockpit dry, lots of pluses.

Mike Monies- The Red Scamp

[MMonies]

Bob, Howard-

Your comments on Sail Havasu are certainly right on. It is truly unique and hard to believe it is done totally by volunteers and nonprofit. It is so well organized and smoothly run that it puts many commercial enterprises to shame. I truly enjoyed attending with the Red Scamp and sailing in the two open races with Howard Rice, the high point for me. To say that Howard is competative is an understatement! We won one start and almost the second, I think. The Scamp performed fantastically thanks to Howard's sailing skills and John Welsford's design skills. Thank you both.

Getting to go under the London Bridge (right behind Sean Mulligan- the Havasu organizer)and circling the island was amazing. All the hundreds of boats under sail cannot be described verbally. There were almost 200 boats there taking part.

I wish that more home built or wooden boats would come for 2013, interest in wooden boats was evident both in the "boat show" to the public and among attendees. We had over 50 or more attendees for our seminar, "You CAN Build This Boat"
the John Welsford Sherpa that was built and donated to the Sea Scouts.

This is a wonderfully organized, efficiently and smoothly run small boat convention/sailing event. It deserves all of our support to encourage small boat building and sailing.

By the way, the Red Scamp finished 38 I believe out of 110 boats in the long distance race where winds were in 20's or more, using our PolySail International polytarp sails we had used in TX 200 and other events last year. The next day we switched to the new Neil Pryde "Scamp" sail that Small Craft Advisor had commissioned. My previous Polysail had been laced footed and the new sail is loose footed, so a new stiffer boom is needed. Scamp still completed the race quite respectably and went thru winds into the 40's.

Mike Monies-The Red Scamp

[keyhavenpotterer]

Nice picture by nebwest2 of SCAMP at Havasu . Thanks for the headsup by Nigel on the SCA SCAMP forum.

[Howard Rice]

Hey Mike
Thank you again for letting me drive your boat. Sailing with you was an excellent experience. A few observations on our shared experience.

1. Thanks for being so cool headed at the starts. With 110 boats (all larger) vying for the best start you allowed me to slam tack and gybe Scamp dialing her up and down in speed to put her exactly where she had to be to win one start and cross with clear air as first or second across the line in the second start. Too bad there were not enough Scamps to have a fleet start in the class race. Maybe there will be a handful next year and Scamps will have their own fleet start. So Mike thank you for trusting me on the wild fleet starts, we made a seamless team maneuvering through such traffic. Scamp can just about turn around in her own length. It was pretty darned exciting mixing it up with a big boat fleet in a boat with a ten foot waterline and then hammering the starts. Generally in sailboat racing the start is crucial.

2. Winning the start and then covering the fleet means you win. Scamp could not cover most boats because of her ten foot waterline. As sailors know speed is largely determined by waterline.

3. The racing aboard Scamp was an eye opener for both of us. We are the two sailors who have logged hours aboard the boat and I say respectfully to all reading here that Scamp held her own against many big boats as we crossed tacks, sailed abreast for miles down wind, etc. She is a diminutive fleet footed boat that is absolutely a grin to sail, stiff, very comfortable, etc. She sails like a pocket yacht and not an 11" 11" dinghy.

4. The new class sail we bent on for the second race moments before the start is in my opinion a fine sail, it sets perfectly out of the bag.

5. Mikes boat is set up as a "down wind" long distance cruiser/distance racer event boat and is not set up for round the buoys racing. Still we squeaked speed out of her. I am sure Mike will be employing some of the go fast suggestions I made. We both observed she needs a new stiffer boom due to the new sail and additional sail controls.

6. Scamps rating at Havasu. OK, first the racing was meant to be for fun yet it was still racing and many took it quite seriously (as we did) but in a remarkably gentlemanly way. I was impressed with the manners and comradeship within the racing fleet. Good manners were on display by everyone. This is the way racing should feel. Friends out for the joy of the day dipping transoms instead of making close crosses and not pressing any issue.

Back to Scamps rating. Dave Scobie pointed out at the posting of results that Scamps rating was perhaps not accurate as she was rated with Montgomery 17s. We did not push the point with the organizers because the racing was so gentlemanly yet if we had and if her rating would have reflected her being the smallest boat in the event I believe Scamp would have been a genuine threat for a podium finish.

In reality I am 100% happy with the way things turned out for as a former race officer, one design class director and sailboat racer I have seen too many sailors bark about being wronged even if they haven't been. We didn't see that we had been wronged as the days we raced together were just too enjoyable but the point should be highlighted.

Fair enough to say the race officers were not quite sure how to rate Scamp. We were just happy to sail her. Sail Havasu was not the place to squabble, instead it was a place to be happy and to sail with so many high spirited great folks. I want to go back and sail next year and recommend as many sailors as possible consider the event because it was such a comradeship oriented event. It would be great to see even more wood boats in attendance and more Scamps. Scamp should have a start in the class race.

7. The first race was sailed aboard Scamp with a blown out poly sail and extra gear (oars, motor, fenders, etc. For race two I suggested to Mike (in a most gentlemanly manner) that we throw everything off the boat (except for him) and he agreed to lighten the load so we tossed a few items.

Very glad we did because chasing down six boats at the leeward mark as a 40 knot squall came blasting through we were the only boat that made the mark rounding without a knock down out of our little race within a race. All around us and ahead boats were rounding up, being knocked down with sails flogging. Good we did not have anything extra on board to muddle up the moment. I live for this kind of sailing but only in boats that can be managed.

Mike once again you are the man! Wide eyed Mike and I watched boat after boat round up as the squall and driving rain hit. I quietly chipped in "Hey Mike help me trim the main, OK ease, ease, harden up to blade the rig, lets get her going, hike, hike" and Scamp took us to weather like she was on tiny rails as we footed and eased ever so slightly. Three tacks and we hit the line at speed for a satisfying finish all by ourselves. I don't like to drop out of races and many did not finish. In another boat we might have had to head for the barn.

Thanks for reading my observations about Scamp and the Havasu Pocket Cruisers Convention. I apologize to all for the length.
howard

**Mike I'd race with you any time! I like quiet team work.

[MMonies]

Howard,

Have you considered the Everglades Challenge in 2013? John Welsford, Chuck Leinweber, Tom Pamperin are going to participate in next year's EC. Usually severe racing and sailing conditions. You would love it- round the clock sailing thru every sort of weather.

I had a blast sailing the Scamp with you at Lake Havasu, the highlight of the event for me. I would sail with you anytime.
Really looking forward to the Small Craft Skills Academies with you in Texas and here on Lake Eufaula.

Mike Monies- The Red Scamp

[Howard Rice]

Howard,

Have you considered the Everglades Challenge in 2013? John Welsford, Chuck Leinweber, Tom Pamperin are going to participate in next year's EC. Usually severe racing and sailing conditions. You would love it- round the clock sailing thru every sort of weather.

I had a blast sailing the Scamp with you at Lake Havasu, the highlight of the event for me. I would sail with you anytime.
Really looking forward to the Small Craft Skills Academies with you in Texas and here on Lake Eufaula.

Mike Monies- The Red Scamp

********
Hi Mike.

Actually I haven't considered the EC. I never seem to be able to be stateside at the time of the Challenge, The Cedar Key Small Boat Meet or other such events. Back in the day when I lived in the US events like the EC didn't exist. I read about such events from half way around the world while having my own solo challenges to and from remote Pacific atolls sailing my sleep aboard sailing canoe.

2013 looks like I have a plate full with work, the 2013 Small Craft Skills Academy series and the development of a new small boat, Scamp #2. For several years I have been planning a voyage aboard a boat that meets my vision of the ideal small open cruising boat. Scamp is the basic platform I will begin with.

My current plan is to set sail in 2013 if I can prepare adequately given time demands. I am currently building the boat with completion planned for late fall 2012. Then comes proof of concept testing including the overall set up, live aboard and survival systems, conducting sea trials all before setting off, so my time in 2013 will be short.

Long ago I loved to race, Havasu was my first formal racing in twenty some years. Adventure racing sounds interesting................sort of.

After Sail Havasu I get it. Sailing with a group like minded folks is great fun, a great place to share knowledge.

I am open to new ideas so here is a question for the forum.

I would be interested to read what elements forum readers/sailors would include in the development of a small self contained open cruising boat? These elements to address safety/survival, comfort/cooking underway and general protection from the elements and sailing/rowing performance?
Thanks,
howard

[kenjamin]

********

...I am open to new ideas so here is a question for the forum.

I would be interested to read what elements forum readers/sailors would include in the development of a small self contained open cruising boat? These elements to address safety/survival, comfort/cooking underway and general protection from the elements and sailing/rowing performance? [/U]
Thanks,
howard

Hey Howard, on your question what crew size are you talking about and what kind of range are you looking for and how far out from the coast are we talking about?

[Howard Rice]

Kenjamin
Solo trip. Range will vary, at times a couple of days between resupply at remote settlements, other times up to two weeks. Two open ocean passages planned one to two weeks each way. Once at the destination remote sailing of up to six weeks or more with no resupply.

[Dan St Gean]

Well,

It seems a low estimate that one would want to have capacity to carry stores. 10# a day x 6-7 weeks + a little wiggle room means the necessity for 500+ pounds of room for food and water items...and that's a bit low. **Unless** you want to spring for a very expensive desalinator & possibly a backup.

In addition to that self rescue must be fast and foolproof. Few supplies can be out in the cockpit as losing items could be very troublesome. Simple and fast reefing, ability to deploy and retrieve a sea anchor, and effortless helm even self steering for the longer sections. You don't want to be a slave to the tiller.

Checking out the jester challenge boats might be instructive as well even though they are larger than the scamp.

I'd think about some sort of addition to the hard dodger as well both for sun protection as well as spray protection. Clothing can do those things as well, but it would be nice for the boat to at least assist on those functions.

Mostly it looks to be about the toughness and self will of the skipper. The boat can make the ride more comfy though.


Dan

[kenjamin]

Would you be willing to start a new thread on this subject so I can tell you what I really think?

[Howard Rice]

Would you be willing to start a new thread on this subject so I can tell you what I really think?

Hello
I suppose it best to just answer here. I am always looking to pick up new ideas to add to my experiences. I don't think the question deserves a new thread and will likely drop it if it doesn't fit on the forum or on this thread.

The boat I am building and using is a Scamp with a number of modifications so the question seems to fit here.

[Howard Rice]

Well,

It seems a low estimate that one would want to have capacity to carry stores. 10# a day x 6-7 weeks + a little wiggle room means the necessity for 500+ pounds of room for food and water items...and that's a bit low. **Unless** you want to spring for a very expensive desalinator & possibly a backup.

In addition to that self rescue must be fast and foolproof. Few supplies can be out in the cockpit as losing items could be very troublesome. Simple and fast reefing, ability to deploy and retrieve a sea anchor, and effortless helm even self steering for the longer sections. You don't want to be a slave to the tiller.

Checking out the jester challenge boats might be instructive as well even though they are larger than the scamp.

I'd think about some sort of addition to the hard dodger as well both for sun protection as well as spray protection. Clothing can do those things as well, but it would be nice for the boat to at least assist on those functions.

Mostly it looks to be about the toughness and self will of the skipper. The boat can make the ride more comfy though.


Dan

Hi Dan
Good ideas, all in keeping with my plans.

The pound load you have guestimated is high as per my calculations but I understand your estimation. Self rescue and reefing are top of my list and the systems I have planned will allow for:
Top priority- Instant rig strikeability, speed reefing. I have designed a foredeck deployable sea anchor system (fwd quarter adjustable) that will enable heaving to.
Top priority- Capsize prevention, ease of self righting, quick re-entry and sail away capability. This I have worked out and proven with Scamp #1.
The capsize testing I performed for the Scamp development team actually served two purposes.
1. They wanted it done.
2. I thoroughly test every boat I sail and the Port Townsend testing last March was a great opportunity to conduct the first capsize testing that I would have done in any case. From the phase one testing I will be making a few modifications during my build of #2. Scamp #2 is the boat I am building specifically for this voyage.
Thanks again Dan. I appreciate the thoughts you have penned. As I move forward developing the boat I look forward to all ideas, why not?
howard

[kenjamin]

Howard,

The reason I requested a separate thread was because I didn't feel right offering a CY as a possibility on a Welsford site. If you're planning on getting it done with a modified SCAMP, that's way cool too as I am building a SCAMP for fishing, sailing, and solo work here in St. Augustine, FL. It's an interesting study to compare the CY with the SCAMP. People will tell you that the CY doesn't row well but I suspect it rows better than a SCAMP. I do like the scale of the SCAMP for solo work although I'm just guessing because I haven't done much of any solo sailing so don't really know. I do know that I would much rather have to right a SCAMP by myself than a CY. Good thing that a loaded down CY is near impossible for a reasonable skipper to capsize. The CY can carry more, rows better, and is a bit faster than the SCAMP but I am very much looking forward to the little bit of protection from the sun and rain that the SCAMP provides. That will be very welcome especially for someone like me who gets sunburned in a couple of hours if not protected. Us old guys have to have our afternoon nap, you know. SCAMP will be the first boat I've ever owned to give me a good place to do that.

Very curious as to the modifications you have in mind for the extended cruising SCAMP. Will you be using a motor?

[Dan St Gean]

Hi Dan
Good ideas, all in keeping with my plans.

The pound load you have guestimated is high as per my calculations but I understand your estimation. Self rescue and reefing are top of my list and the systems I have planned will allow for:
Thanks again Dan. I appreciate the thoughts you have penned. As I move forward developing the boat I look forward to all ideas, why not?
howard

The pound load includes water. 8# a gallon roughly. A gallon a day seems reasonable. Will you be out of supply reach for a potential 7 weeks? Thanks for the facts Kenjamin.

Dan

[kenjamin]

A gallon of water weighs 8.345 lbs. Maybe a desalinator or two is in Howard's future. Wait a minute, I just did the math. At a gallon a day for six weeks that's only about 350 lbs. and probably doable for a SCAMP loaded down with one guy and his other supplies and safety equipment. Right? After all 178 lbs of that is needed ballast so that fresh water ballast could be replaced with salt water ballast as the journey progresses.

[Howard Rice]

There are a myriad number of reasons why Scamp is my micro cruiser of choice. Paramount amongst these reasons is the fact that she can easily be handled on land and water by one person for most tasks. As a solo sailor I will be one big chunk of the total weight aboard and I like that. In heavy air most boats become a serious handful, not Scamp as evidenced by the recent 40 knot squall that laid a number of bigger boats over at the leeward mark during Sail Havasu race two. Scamp with an experienced helm (who is comfortable in a fast moving squall) can keep her on her feet and sailing.

I believe I have chosen my next micro cruiser wisely even after two years of working up another quite similar design. Final analysis that caused the switch from my design concept was that Scamp on paper seemed a better boat so instead of changing so much of my work I jumped in before #1 was even constructed.

I knew she was right and test sailing her plus capsize testing gave me the initial proof of concept that I needed. If she had not measured up during the winter overnight or the capsize testing I would have sold off the kit and gone back to head scratching for the right design of a a potentially tough small open boat capable of going remote as well being self sufficient once away from civilization. Nice that Scamp measured up.

No motor planned and very little rowing expected as Scamp is a light air as well as heavy air boat. I will have oars or a yuloh, haven't decided on which. Where I am going it either blows like stink or its calm, little in between it seems.

Howard,

The reason I requested a separate thread was because I didn't feel right offering a CY as a possibility on a Welsford site. If you're planning on getting it done with a modified SCAMP, that's way cool too as I am building a SCAMP for fishing, sailing, and solo work here in St. Augustine, FL. It's an interesting study to compare the CY with the SCAMP. People will tell you that the CY doesn't row well but I suspect it rows better than a SCAMP. I do like the scale of the SCAMP for solo work although I'm just guessing because I haven't done much of any solo sailing so don't really know. I do know that I would much rather have to right a SCAMP by myself than a CY. Good thing that a loaded down CY is near impossible for a reasonable skipper to capsize. The CY can carry more, rows better, and is a bit faster than the SCAMP but I am very much looking forward to the little bit of protection from the sun and rain that the SCAMP provides. That will be very welcome especially for someone like me who gets sunburned in a couple of hours if not protected. Us old guys have to have our afternoon nap, you know. SCAMP will be the first boat I've ever owned to give me a good place to do that.

Very curious as to the modifications you have in mind for the extended cruising SCAMP. Will you be using a motor?

[Howard Rice]

Dan and Kenjamin
I am pleased to be involved in this exchange of ideas. I am off to a series of meetings and likely cannot get back to the topic until tonight or tomorrow. Thanks to both of you for your thoughts. I am very glad to be building Scamp and want to get the mods right during the process so exchange of ideas is a great way to go.
Best,
howard

[Dan St Gean]

A gallon of water weighs 8.345 lbs. Maybe a desalinator or two is in Howard's future. Wait a minute, I just did the math. At a gallon a day for six weeks that's only about 350 lbs. and probably doable for a SCAMP loaded down with one guy and his other supplies and safety equipment. Right? After all 178 lbs of that is needed ballast so that fresh water ballast could be replaced with salt water ballast as the journey progresses.

kenjamin,

That's a very good idea. Teh ballast tank would have to be carefully constructed so no contamination of the water source would occur. Additionally, food safe epoxy should be used there as the water would be sitting in the epoxy leaching nasties into your drinking water otherwise. Alternately, and to keep a full tank at all times, utilize a heavy duty bladder for the fresh water and outside the bladder could be salt water.

Dan

[Howard Rice]

kenjamin,

That's a very good idea. Teh ballast tank would have to be carefully constructed so no contamination of the water source would occur. Additionally, food safe epoxy should be used there as the water would be sitting in the epoxy leaching nasties into your drinking water otherwise. Alternately, and to keep a full tank at all times, utilize a heavy duty bladder for the fresh water and outside the bladder could be salt water.

Dan

Kenjamin and Dan
Just out of meetings. I literally have a moment. The idea you two are tossing around of fresh water tankage, bladder etc is precisely why I posted the question. I had not thought of this approach. I know a little about small boat voyaging but certainly have no illusions about having a corner on innovative ideas. This sort of collaborative thinking is excellent. Later I will get back to continue this discussion. Thank you both!
FYI for much of the planned voyage fresh water will be in abundance. The passages are my concern as you have likely ascertained.
howard

[john welsford]

A very high latitude small boat adventure? Cool!
My thoughts? The usual stuff, heavy items down low and light items up high, bedding and clothing being light will be up there in a net under the top part of the cabin/locker, and access to the underfloor spaces through hatches will enable the fresh water tankage down there to help add stability.
I would look hard at boxing in the area between the cockpit coamings down to the seat tops, she will then have a little more stability when on her side, and bring less water aboard when coming back up.
Big bilge pump, one like this that will move a lot of water in a hurry picking up from a little well at the after end of the cockpit floor http://www.whalepumps.com/marine/pro...lyID=Compac-50
Get dry quick!
Heavy provisions and equipment under the seats outboard of the "offcentercase" and the same on the port side, that helps keep her trimmed fore and aft, and I'd look hard at putting a mast top partner like Mike Monies has incorporated in his Famous Red SCAMP so the mast is easier to get down at sea.
I think that a drop in section with a velcroed cover will keep it watertight so you dont get rain in your coffee in the mornings.
A net in under the cabin top where wet weather clothing can be kept within arms reach, and a little gimballed sterno stove with a fitted pot on the after face of the cabin bulkhead so food heating is not dependent upon the boat being fairly still.
Closed cell padding glued to the seats, only about 20mm thick but it can make a difference over several days.
Lots of thoughts, those are just a start.

I'll be watching the project, and the voyage reports with interest.

John Welsford

Kenjamin and Dan
Just out of meetings. I literally have a moment. The idea you two are tossing around of fresh water tankage, bladder etc is precisely why I posted the question. I had not thought of this approach. I know a little about small boat voyaging but certainly have no illusions about having a corner on innovative ideas. This sort of collaborative thinking is excellent. Later I will get back to continue this discussion. Thank you both!
FYI for much of the planned voyage fresh water will be in abundance. The passages are my concern as you have likely ascertained.
howard

[skaraborgcraft]

Howard, although open boat cruising is a possability, the majority end up choosing a little more in the way of shelter. I had a friend who sailed from the UK to Spain across the Bay of Biscay in a 16ft Wayfarer dinghy (as cruised by Frank Dye), he crossed in a very respectable 6 days,but he had hardly any sleep and wore a wet suit the entire time,needless to say, he was in a bit of a state physically when he arrived,we met up again in Gibralter several months later,he had disposed of his little single burner gaz ring as an uneccesary expense, and had taken to burning drift wood in an old biscuit tin as means to cooking,not something that would be practical at sea. Sailing a small open boat is both a mental and physical challange,5 days of wearing the same damp clothes and not being able to get into something dry due to weather conditions was enough for me,tired wet,cold and exhausted skippers can make bad decisions.....a small cabin makes a whole world of difference,at least to me,if a boat has not got enough room for me to crawl into,take off wet clothes and get in a dry sleeping bag,then im not going! Trying to drop a mast and erect some kind of canvas cover at sea in worsening conditions is no fun,its the fact that you have to stop, lay to a sea anchor and literally hide under cover while waiting for weather to clear,and not really being able to take control is the bit i dont like. Admittedly,depending on conditions,some small boats may be able to press on before having to heave to or lay to some kind of drougue device.
Being self sufficient for such a long time in a small boat will probably require a large amount of dried food and a hand held water maker to make it edible...yum. As already posted,i agree the logical answer to fresh water and ballast arrangment is to have a flexible freshwater tank inside the ballast tank,or just make the whole thing easier by making your ballast tank box a perfect fit for 5 litre plastic containers that you can drink and then refill with saltwater as you go,personally i would go with individual containers,bladder tanks can fail,maybe not such an issue with a hand held water maker.....but even they can fail too, or filters block...not cheap either.

If i was about to set off for several months in a Scamp i would raise that coaming slightly and devise some system of making that cockpit as water tight as possible. No doubt that there are some amazing lightweight and waterproof materials around these days,maybe even somthing like a bimini hood with roll down clear screens so you could be enclosed but keep the weather out,but i would imagine something like this would, unless extremly flexible, be liable to breakages. Which is why,even if it a bit of 4mm glassed plywood, as a roof over your head would be better than fabric,but thats just me. If your happy wearing a dry suit during your passages thats fine......but depending on your constitution, they are an absolute pain to whip off when you want to take a crap,and if its heavy weather at the time....what would you do?

Open boats of Scamps size and open ocean is not for me,im not saying it cant be done,just that i wouldnt, she would be safer and far more comfortable (relatively) if she was decked right over and you did your steering from inside,better yet,a bit of tubing and rope and set up a self steerer. Being forced to hand steer for any length of time is not pleasant....i did it once for 24 days.....

Im still interested to know what your "land based" limitations are? Are you are saying Scamp is the maximum size and weight you can possibly be limited to? If so,then we are left just to discuss how to make Scamp as suitable for the purpose that you wish to undertake. Given the same amount of plwood sheeting and therefore weight,i would personally go for something like a decked over dory,longer,faster,good load carrier,but i would still rather not go offshore in either of those! Scamp is a great design and is fit for purpose,but with all due respect,what you are talking about doing goes way beyond the original brief.Maybe turning 40 the comfort issue has started to be a bigger issue,i dont EVER want to have salt water boils on my arse EVER again. Cheers

[Howard Rice]

Skaraborgcraft

Thanks for the insights.

Land limitations..hmm I didn't mention any. I can choose any design or existing boat meaning I am not limited in my choice, I just happen to have chosen Scamp. What I meant was the ability to move a small boat around by myself if needed. Granted a loaded Scamp will be unmanageable by one person still I know I can move her around in shallows, can partially or completely empty her and roll her up on land on logs or air rollers, etc.

You wrote: "Scamp is a great design and is fit for purpose,but with all due respect,what you are talking about doing goes way beyond the original brief."

Most of the small boats I have cruised long distance do not fall into the design brief that created them. I customize and modify once I find a suitable platform then I test for proof of concept and capability before setting out. I know of others who make attempts to cruise in small boats who are not very careful in planning, if they plan at all. Slapdash set offs are not where its at and to me to do so means the slapdash sailor is a fool. I recently read an interview in a magazine of a small boat sailor who set off in an inappropriate boat (in my opinion) with minimal preparation and no sea trials, no wonder he failed and had to be rescued. The interview was odd in that the interviewee missed an important point. When setting off in an unprepared manner in an unsuitable boat selfishness has to be cited in any analysis. Failing to take into account that rescuers are put in danger saving an unprepared sailor is irresponsible and in my mind unforgivable. When I set out I take responsibility for all of my actions and outcomes.

I have through this long practiced method of meticulous planning managed to stay safe at sea in some very challenging albeit dangerous places (cold water/cold air). I haven't mentioned where I am planning to cruise other than stating a few of the time frames of travel, availability of re-supply, etc. Sailing a small boat for example in tropical areas is a whole different experience than Frank Dyes passages or your friends. I may or may not be sailing in warm water/warm air, what I am saying is that I have done both cold water/cold air and warm water/warm air and know the challenges of each.

Before I set out I never as in "never" let others know what I am planning to do (other than a few friends and a heads up to officials if required) this way I am free to walk away at any time without pressure. I often reflect on why I take on challenging small boat voyages? It is because I love the development process (almost more than the voyage) and the minimalist element of it all. Too many sailors are held captive by large boats. A small wooden boat like Scamp can be man handled, hauled out, tied to the unusable (un-rentable) end of a dock for the night, carried on the deck of a ship, hidden in the mangroves, left for a year on the hard for a minimal charge, etc. Smaller boat means more freedom to explore on land and to get into places where bigger boats can never reach.

I fully understand the discomforts of being at sea for days having done so many times in much frailer (but well prepared) boats than Scamp. Scamp will have a number of modifications, many of which are already listed here by you and others plus others of my own including two very major modifications. Still not so major as to create a boat that is not a Scamp.

I sail conservatively, never afraid to wait for days or weeks if necessary for the right weather window. This strategy has served me well throughout my life of small boat exploring. I march (sail) to no one else's drummer. I depart only when I know it is right. I am not interested in long distance open water passages in micro boats (more than approx 500 miles). For passages of up to 500 or so miles I know from experience how to prepare both mentally and physically and of course boat and gear. For short hops like these I can easily endure.

Some years ago I spent some time with Dr. Hannes Lindemann who as a fellow folding boat voyager mastered the skill of "not minding." I learned much from my time with him and have taught myself how to simply not mind the discomfort one inevitably experiences at sea in any boat. I can operate for extended periods of time in uncomfortable conditions because of this mind set, "I accept my circumstance because I have chosen to be here."

I have now lived (going on 17 years) in a very remote and by any standard rough world (a remote Pacific island) in the village of Kepin Kep, where life is always on the edge, literally (my house is 30 feet from the edge of a sheer cliff dropping hundreds of feet down to the ocean). I like having life backed into a corner, I want to feel it as it is happening. After a youth lived in the soft comforts of the United States I have learned much from living like some 70% of the worlds population, on the edge. I live slightly upscale from dire poverty. I have found meaning in a life lived amongst the poor helping them, this is my work and has been for many years. Before this I lived 80 miles at sea on remote Northeast Cay in Belize, no power, no running water, etc. This doing without keeps me ready for stepping into the perceived and real deprivation of small boat cruising. I say deprivation but for everything I do without I benefit tenfold from the magic of the experience. No need for a major shift change in lifestyle or thinking between the luxury and bounty of a cushy western life to the edgy life aboard an open boat. My transition is virtually no transition at all.

In Micronesia I often have to travel to the outer islands where even rougher is the norm. I have also learned much from Pacific island voyagers (Yap, Satawan, Satawal, Ulithi, etc) some of whom have more or less adopted me. Many of these friends still make long ocean passages in open voyaging sailing canoes. In conclusion my daily life and small boat experiences have helped me be uniquely suited to sailing rough.

Thanks again. Once again I appreciate every word I have read. I share your love of the salt water sore, aren't they pleasant?
howard

[skaraborgcraft]

Howard, clearly you are up to it,mental prep is sometimes the bigger issue than the boat itself. Obviously no distance was mentioned,but ability to sustain life support systems for a known time,is only really a question of the skippers abilitys to "rough it" if required,and from what i have just read,it seems you also "fit for purpose",if you dont mind me putting it that way.
Seeing that Scamp is 3 times longer than the smallest boat to cross the Atlantic,given the thorough prep that i now realise you will do,i guess Scamp could go almost anywhere.
Im in the process of downsizing myself,and can completely agree on the benefits of smaller craft;the ability to lay up,de-rig,and take home without the use of a crane or anyone else is a major factor,let alone being able to keep the boat inside the barn rather than outside in the snow every winter,even if its under canvas.
Key factors in my mind would be flotation,water supply and shade/cover. I watched the capsize test and was very surprised by how hard you had to try to get Scamp over,however i would like to see the same righting test done with a full load "ready for voyaging". 2 years ago 4 rowers from Scilly attempting to "row for home", capsized a week after leaving New York,and that boat,although designed as a self righter, never did. What amazes me to this day is that they never tested the boat under full load in the harbour at StMarys,Scilly before the boat was shipped off. I was there while they were testing and rowing around for photographers,but they said "we didnt have time for a full test"!!! I was glad to see them back safe and sound,but for the want of a few hours work and less time drinking beer,it could have turned out very differently. From what you have wrote,i believe you will be better prepared.
Its only the last 3 years i have lived in a home that has running water(hot!) and a toilet...i still find that a luxery that too many take for granted,but only something you can really appriciate if you have lived without it,whether by choice or location.I digress.....anyway,refreshing to know there are still those who take responsibility for their own actions on their own shoulders,which i truely believe in.

I dont know how you choose to navigate,but if you get the chance,look at Sven Yrvinds "bris sextant" . Absolute failsafe gps that you can wear as a piece of jewellery!Im quite sure you wont be taking a set of full size admiralty charts with you???

Myself and i expect many others on the forum that are lovers of small capable boats will be very interested to hear more about your intended modifications.

Cheers
PS dont forget the zinc cream.

[Howard Rice]

Back to work here.
I just did a quick edit of my posting if you are interested in giving it another quick read.
Yep slathering zinc cream is important.
I plan to get back to your thoughtful reply in a few hours.
Thanks again,
howard

[skaraborgcraft]

Howard, i think we can agree that "less, is more". Not that many people,especially in the Western world will ever "get it", or even understand it. Part of me will always be in West Africa,where i saw real poverty for the first time,yet people so full of heart,its a humbling experience to live among them for a while,and i have found the people who have less, are often more generous. I often find it quite disturbing to be in an "advanced" country like Sweden sometimes.. ......less said about that the better.....does everyone really need to update a mobile phone every 3 months?

Look forward to reading about your Scamp mods/ideas. Cheers

[Dan St Gean]

Howard,

Chatting with Sven Yrvind might be a fun exercize in any event. His ideas are interesting and his passages remarkable. he also has adopted the Matt Layden approach to small boat voyaging--all from inside. Open boat sailing is a whole different animal though. After watching the video of Rory McDougal aboard Cooking Fat, his Tiki21, made me realize some area for out of the elements relaxing might be a top priority.

So some items to figure out:

1. self steering gear
2. righting with a full load
3. element protection--hot or cold you'll need a plan
4. Necessary stores and their locations
5. striking the rig and hanging on sea anchor

Etc. These are all interesting problems to surmount in the planning and building phase. Keep us in the loop regardless!

Dan

[skaraborgcraft]

I find it hard to believe Sven will be heading off this year on an Eastabout non-stop circumnavigation,in a 10ft boat,via the 3 capes! you wouldnt want to do that in an open boat,at least i wouldnt. Sven is really into the chine runner keel concept and it seems to be a proven performer.I may pop over to the coast and watch him leave,no date set yet.

Even if Howard is not giving away any routing plans,its clear he knows what he is letting himself in for......this is why im interested to hear about the modifications.......JW mentioned high latitude.....and Howard mentioned either it blows like stink or is calm......that sounds just like Greenland cruising weather. Some kind of protection would be vital if thats the sort of high latitude cruising you are intending.

Striking the mast at sea, do you think you will really need to do that? I understand the power of the wind and a mast section,but, firstly you will be carrying extra stores and hence better stabilty,and also, i thought the mast gave some positive flotation to resist a complete inversion. I dont know if you are building wooden spars or filling aluminium with foam? If we are talking about striking the mast,is it going to be fitted in a tabernacle? Will you have to remove the sail complete with top and bottom yards? Its worthwhile dropping a mast if you have to row to windward,or you are laying to a sea anchor close to a lee shore,otherwise i would rather have a mast that is standing ready to take a driving sail at any time. But i will be glad to hear why you might want to drop it at sea.

Self steering, elastic and cord would be my choice,you need something to play with out there. I did design and build a compact windvane,but on a Scamp it would just be more weight.

Any thoughts on extra sails? A cruising chute or reaching spinnaker to suit scamp will fold into a real tiny bag and make a usefull pillow,and i love light air sailing.You could take the halayrd aft to act as a backstay,use spectra rope,use your sculling oar as a bowsprit to keep its tack out in front,again,a spectra loop round(or through) your stem head will be good enough for light air stuff. A good light air sail will keep you moving longer and probably faster than you could scull/row.This would actually make it on my essential list considering size vs weight. Why am i getting excited at the thought of sailing on a reach in the pitch black except for the stars and a crescent moon on a Scamp with a full main and pulling chute??? Cheers




.

[Howard Rice]

No mention on my part of high latitudes, that would be conjecture by others. There are many places on the planet where it is either mill pond or blows.
No mention of the need to strike the mast, just the sail and spars. I prefer to leave a light spar up at all times unless in survival wind conditions. I have testing to do before a final decision is made. I have designed a simple efficient method for both dropping and re-stepping the mast that does not require a tabernacle or a cuddy roof cut out.
I will have full enclosure protection as needed in two forms, both integrated with the other.
Sail will stay on the spars unless I rig the second smaller main.
I am planning a down wind asymmetrical chute with deployable sprit, one full sized main and one smaller, likely a 70 to 80- sq ft with three reefs.
I dont intend to do much rowing or sculling, no need. I like to sail in and out of tight spots, slips, docks etc. I always want a spar up if hove to with a lee shore anywhere within a 24 hour drift.
I will have an easily deployable/retrievable sea anchor set up.
I have a self steering system I have refined from years cruising small dinghy types.
Capsize testing fully loaded is on my development schedule.
More later,
howard

[skaraborgcraft]

Sounds like all you need to organise is stowage. Small portable 5 litre water cans,and build your ballast tank to suit, doesnt sound like there will be any hoses where you are headed,so a fixed bladder tank is more a liability. and something that you dont want to fail. I would be tempted to standardise (if such a word exists)some of your kit in hard platic containers,the only issue i can find with that at the moment is getting them in and out the flotation tank/cockpit seat. Im not sure how watertight and how large you can go on a seat top access plate.If your stowage boxes are of good design and watertight,you could make the whole cockpit seat lift for easy access, or maybe even just a small section. I have used 25litre plastic jerry cans as stowage and under thwart flotation,in a small boat,as you well know, you cant waste stowge for bouyancy material alone when something else will serve the purpose,be it at a small loss in bouyancy.I fitted the cans with round plastic access twist on/off plates,well bedded on sika-flex,works a treat. Keeping stuff dry these days isnt so much the problem as accessing it when you need it.If you dont mind raising the cockpit floor another 6 inches you could have at least 4 of these cans,laid flat, under your feet with your heavier items in,the rest you could fit under the benches. I dont know how much of Scamps construction you would/or could alter without detriment to strength. I used a junked portable ice chest as a large box to carry all my smaller boxes,lashed to the frames under the main thwart,the bonus being it had lots of stowage room,good flotation and a great sealing lid;we dont need ice as the lake is very rarely more than +5.
Look forward to hearing more of the full enclosure protection.

Guess your not "scamping up the Amazon" either then.....

Space abhors a vacumn....if we dont get all the details,we shall just make up some interesting theories and possibilities....
in the best possible taste,of course. Cheers

[kenjamin]

Yesterday I got to spend quite a bit of time looking over tents at a very large sporting goods store with the idea of making one of them work for a camping enclosure for SCAMP. As you can imagine, none of them was close enough to be very usable, at least from what I could tell. I did, however, have a thought that may be useful and worth pursuing. On the dome tents using the crossing bows, I wonder if at least part of the bow frame could somehow be fashioned to underside of the cabin roof. This might provide a way to utilize the stiff cabin roof to stabilize the soft tent portion of the enclosure. The tent poles, as light as they are, might even stay in place when sailing to somehow support a small patch of sunshade while one is at the tiller or doing other stuff if the boat is in self-steer mode – just a thought to kick around.

[skaraborgcraft]

I have used a tent with flexible braces as a sprayhood in the past,and in too much wind,the poles themseves will collapse. Flexability is a good thing up to a point,but no doubt these rods could possibly be doubled up to provide a bit more stiffness. Beware some fibreglass rods,after a while in the weather start to lose glass fibres,its the one reason i got rid of it after picking up to many splinters;i guess one could always tape them. In my case the fexi-sprayhood was a temporary fitting,but i expect a longer life and stronger unit could have been made.

What you really need is the folding soft top from the new Jaguar,push button efficancy in the finest of fabrics and able to deploy in windspeeds of 50mph. (i think it even has a heated rear screen)

[Howard Rice]

Sounds like all you need to organise is stowage. Small portable 5 litre water cans,and build your ballast tank to suit, doesnt sound like there will be any hoses where you are headed,so a fixed bladder tank is more a liability. and something that you dont want to fail. I would be tempted to standardise (if such a word exists)some of your kit in hard platic containers,the only issue i can find with that at the moment is getting them in and out the flotation tank/cockpit seat. Im not sure how watertight and how large you can go on a seat top access plate.If your stowage boxes are of good design and watertight,you could make the whole cockpit seat lift for easy access, or maybe even just a small section. I have used 25litre plastic jerry cans as stowage and under thwart flotation,in a small boat,as you well know, you cant waste stowge for bouyancy material alone when something else will serve the purpose,be it at a small loss in bouyancy.I fitted the cans with round plastic access twist on/off plates,well bedded on sika-flex,works a treat. Keeping stuff dry these days isnt so much the problem as accessing it when you need it.If you dont mind raising the cockpit floor another 6 inches you could have at least 4 of these cans,laid flat, under your feet with your heavier items in,the rest you could fit under the benches. I dont know how much of Scamps construction you would/or could alter without detriment to strength. I used a junked portable ice chest as a large box to carry all my smaller boxes,lashed to the frames under the main thwart,the bonus being it had lots of stowage room,good flotation and a great sealing lid;we dont need ice as the lake is very rarely more than +5.
Look forward to hearing more of the full enclosure protection.

Guess your not "scamping up the Amazon" either then.....

Space abhors a vacumn....if we dont get all the details,we shall just make up some interesting theories and possibilities....
in the best possible taste,of course. Cheers

Busy day here. I will write again this weekend. For now thought I would post this photo of how I approach developing/organizing gear in micro boats. This is the rig and wood canvas folding boat I developed for a solo double rounding of Cape Horn. I was able to stay at sea for days and make landfalls without much trouble when needed. Scamp will offer genuine comfort by comparison. Everything in this photo fit in or on my boat. I carried nothing extra even though this looks a jumble (the yellow and red dry bags are empty ready to be packed with some of the items in the photo). Winter and extreme weather conditions were the challenge.
howard
[IMG][/IMG]

[skaraborgcraft]

Scamp will be a cruise liner in comparison.

[htom]

Two outer tapered poles, each about as long as the boom. Fastened near and to the outer edge of the roof of the cuddy by the mast partner, they run aft along the roof, are fastened at the edge, then through the air until they bend down and are retained at the transom by the interior edge of the side seats. From above, they follow the curve of the gunwale, in profile, up to below the center pair of poles' crossing, which almost touches the boom before swinging down. The center poles start and end in the same places as the outer poles, but cross just below the boom.

[WI-Tom]

A few more SCAMP photos--these are from Port Townsend, watching Howard Rice tack up the narrow harbor in very light airs.









Tom