Just sent away for Walter Barron's LYS skiff plans 16ft and 20ft. Cant wait to get them. Anyone out there building either of his boats.
Just sent away for Walter Barron's LYS skiff plans 16ft and 20ft. Cant wait to get them. Anyone out there building either of his boats.
I also have plans for the LYS what motor do you plan on using for yours? I will be watching
I have the plans, and I'll build it one day.
Spokaloo, that is a great looking boat. Thank you for documenting it. I'm really interested in these simple style boats, such as the LYS mentioned here, the Gideon Skiff on the cover of the most recent issue of WB, and Tom Hill's Long Point skiff.
Would there be any benefit of possibly adding some rigid foam board insulation along the floor, and then covering with another layer of plywood to give yourself a sealed sole that would add some flotation? I know that there would be some additional weight involved, but I'm thinking that the flotation of the rigid foam would be a good safety measure.
Also, what about building some rail boxes along the gunwales between the first frame and the transom, putting in two rod holders per side, and then filling the boxes with expandable foam? This would give you additional flotation up high, so if the boat ever did go under, you'd most likely keep the motor's power head above water. It would also give you a place to lean against with your thighs to haul pots over the side, or to just lean against while fighting that fish that is on the line.
Just some thoughts by someone that has never built a boat, but would like to.
Sharp looking boat. Just a curious question but why are the stem and posts at the stern so long?
Doyle, I wouldn't add anything to the sole, as the USCG has a thing about upright flotation instead of upside down flotation. The plans actually have details for 3 sealed chambers that have foam added to them for upright flotation, so you'd be skookum as soon as you ordered the lines from Walt. I use this skiff on a a lake about 300 miles from the ocean as a work skiff, so I wanted as much interior space as physically possible. There's also details on building side decks which you could hang foam under as well, doing exactly what you are hoping for.
Jim, we were in Italy several years back and ended up in the Cinque Terre area. They have a traditional fishing boat called a gozzo boat which have the long protruding stems for doing net work and for mooring. When you build this skiff, you leave the posts long to act as a building jig. Once I turned her, I planned on keeping the stem long for that very reason, but looking at the aft posts, I decided to leave them for the time being to see if they were useful. I've had everything from boats under tow to logs to nets to mooring lines on them. They are extremely convenient and I haven't found a down side yet, so I'm keeping them.
You don't need a plan for a boat like that. Just figure out your stem angle, cut out one side, stick it to your midship mold and transom, bang on the bottom, done. Put some runners on the bottom, slap some paint on it. Two days, three.
True, but for a few bucks out of your pocket you get some well tested lines, and you keep a few small wood boat builders and designers in business, instead of watching it die back more and more in this economy.
Wise dollars, well spent in my opinion.
Skiff and the Lumberyard Skiff - rocker wise. If you want a flat bottom you need to keep your chine to Walter Baron's specs. For $50 you are getting a good deal with a well tested plan and as Spookaloo said, you are helping support a talented, helpful and available boatbuilder. I can assure you, Walter Baron isn't getting rich off selling you his boat plans, building boats, and teaching WoodenBoat classes. This is not to say that designing and building your own skiff isn't rewarding depending on your experience and skill level. But it won't be a "Lumberyard Skiff".
“Only those who have the patience to do simple things perfectly will acquire the skill to do difficult things easily" Johann Von Schiller
Larry, with a beat-up prop, old gas, and cold weather, she's able to run 25mph WOT, and cruises easily at 21. Nary a bit of porpoising, and she rides like a little leaf on the water being wide for her length.
I bet that puppy would fly with a 40 horse on there.
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Just took our local Riverkeeper on a tour today up through some whitewater areas, and she did great. Not smooth riding, per se, but safe and predictable.
Built a LYS, but interpolated between the 16' & 20' to build this 18 footer. Very happy with the boat, fun to build and goes wicked pissah with a 40 hp 4-stroke. In fact, I haven't achieved WOT yet... The side rails, or gunwales, add a significant amount of rigidity to the hull as well as a nice place to mount stuff. Have fun and enjoy the project!
Have any of you guys bothered to epoxy the entire hull, or just add primer and paint? I would like to think that I could get by with a decent marine paint such as Petit Easy Poxy or something similar, but I'm not sure. I'd like to get 10 years out of this boat at a minimum using MDO (I have a local supplier), and would hope that just primer and paint would be enough.
this one took two days from concept to launch, great scallop skiff. I think a non-boatbuilder could do it with a little one-on-one guidance
(25 hp Evinrude)
OK, here's another question for those who know about the LYS. The middle frame appears to be a 2x8 laid down that serves as both frame and butt block. I'm fine with this, but have a question about it. How does the water drain? I'm not expecting a self draining cockpit, but would like it to drain while sitting on a trailer with the drain plug out of the transom. Are there limber holes through those 2x8's that let the water from the front roll out the back or what do you do?
We need more of these boats on our waterways. They look great and are vastly underrated in the hands of the experienced user. The two skiffs that I've built weren't exactly fast builds, but they look the way a boat ought to look. As an aside, they were not LYS, but similar.
Last edited by davebrown; 12-29-2011 at 12:07 PM.
The Ladybug boats are crap, I don't recommend them. Go with Walt's boat.
MDO with a good thick coat of paint will be very serviceable. I put some epoxy on the ply edges out of habit, but that's just me. There's a check here and there on the ply edges where I've been dragging chains over it, but it all works out just fine. I'll pull her out in a week or two when the ice is just too thick to break my way out anymore, and a little epoxy, a little paint, and off we go for next season.
Yes, there's no limber holes. If you are going to leave her on the trailer, I'd say get a few buddies over and flip her. Taking the motor off should be easy enough (unless like CJ you put a HUGE engine on it...) with the little 30hp units, then 3 guys can flip it. Toss the upside down hull back on the trailer, and you're gravy until the snow melts. As to water in the boat itself, I just pump it out when I use it. The deepest the water gets in each compartmentalized area is 1.5" and it's easy to get cleaned up.
Thanks for the reply E
I took mine much further than I needed to with the finish: Used marine miranti for the whole boat, two coats of epoxy over the entire exterior, two coats of interlux epoxykote primer, then three coats of interlux topside paint. Oh, and I fiberglassed the whole bottom up to 6" up the sides then an additional layer of 4" tape alone both chines, up the stem, up the transom corners and over the outside of the butt block(s) - I had two butt blocks each side to make it 18' long. Again overkill, I'm sure, but the finish came out real nice.
You'll need to add drain channels along the outside bottom edges of the floor frames to allow water to make it all the way back to your drain plug; coat these channels thoroughly with epoxy before you install them. Half round would probably be better than my square channels if you have that bit for your router. Also, I highly recommend that you cut the tops of your chines on an angle so as to allow water to simply run off onto the floor. If you leave them square, after they're installed to the angle of the sides, a small amount of water (just enough to p%ss you off) will collect on the tops of the chines and could lead to future problems and you'll be forever sponging the water off them. My $0.02.
Thanks for sharing CJ, your boat came out very nice
I'm new here and recently asked about the 14' Brockway design on the Design / plans page. I followed the recent brockway type or LYS build threads but I don't need that big a boat. I have the Sound Scholl plans and considered getting the Ladybug plan but not sure I'll get much info for my money.
My question is whether or not you could make the bow a bit more plumb for both asthetic reasons and since it is difficult to work from the bow.
What would happen to the shape of the boat? Thanks for any answers and for the great build threads.
George Williams in Falmouth builds them for most of the commercial guys around here. My brother has an 18' with a 40 Honda, it will plane with 2 aboard and 1000 lbs. of bait. His mooring is about a mile from the ramp so uses it as a tender for his lobster boat. They take a beating tied alonside transfering bait gear an lobsters but he still gets about 10 yrs. out of them with very little upkeep. Maintainence goes to the big boat and gear, skiffs are disposable.
Clydes, don't waste your money on the Ladybug plans. Walt's are better, and the 16 footer is just about the perfect size for this type of boat. You can also build a great boat with the Sound School's plans.
I wouldn't plumb the bow personally, as I work out of the bow of mine all the time, and have no issues. Also, you stand a little higher risk of bad behavior with the bow plumb, as she will root and wallow if the forefoot gets too deep in the water.
Just got my plans earlier in the week. Walter was quick putting them in the mail. Nice easy to understand plans. Pretty straight foreward plans. I like the looks of the shear on the 16ft lyss the best. It doesnt look like it would take much to modify the 20 footer and give her the same shear and rocker at the bow as the 16ft LYSS. Maybe a scale modle build first.
Spokaloo- If I remember right, you used MDO in your build right? I know she's only a half year old, but how do you think she's going to hold up (from a plywood standpoint)? I really like this boat. I'm a fan of Tom Hill's Long Point Skiff which is another similarly sized flat bottom motor boat, though narrower and built in lapstrake, but this boat seems hard to beat in terms of utility and straight-forward build. Cost-effective too.
I have plans for both of those boats, and I opted in this instance to build Walt's boat instead of Tom's design. Just seems to me that the Long Point is pretty and nice for a fishing boat, but I haul lumber, concrete, steel, tools, etc in my skiff, and I wanted something that I didn't care much about.
The MDO is great to work with, it has the same personality as BB fir ply (keep an eye out for voids), and cuts the finishing time down by at least 2/3rds. Once she was assembled, I primed her and painted her in 4 days. It has a few spots where I've bashed the end grain so badly that I need to do some repairs, but I don't think that's got anything to do with MDO, just my bad behavior. For a no-nonsense work boat, that's made to take a daily beating, I'd lean towards MDO no question.
Thanks for the quick reply, Spokaloo. Sometimes it's nice to have something you don't mind really using- it explains my attraction to used guitars that already have a scratch or two- they play just beautifully and I'm not worried I'm going to be the rough hand who makes her imperfect (not counting my playing, that is).
Raining today. Good day to sit inside and play with the plans and search the net for pictures. Started sanding the bottom paint off my 12ft Frugal skiff. Should have put a Hard bottom paint. Used Rustolum bottom paint. Did its job well but doesnt last long. Boat stayed in the salt water at our harbor for 2 months just wood and paint. No ill effects. Need to decide if The new LYS will get only paint or I might glass the bottom and 6 inches up the side.
I'm noticing in your picture from the placement of your butt blocks that the short piece of plywood in towards the stern of the boat. Walter Barron places his at the bow. I always thought the stern would be better since there is less bending in shaping the hull. Was that your reason?
In my LYS, since it's 18 feet long, there are actually two butt blocks per side; one about amidships and one two feet forward of the transom. So, yes the shorter side piece is at the transom. I think with the 20 footer with it's higher sides, having the shorter piece at the bow makes better use of the plywood, I'm not sure. But, with the 5/8" sides and 5/8" butt blocks screwed & glued in place, they took the strain of bending with no problems. Sure, if you could avoid them or move the butt blocks further aft, the factor of safety would increase, but you'd have to use 10' long sheets of plywood...
Incidentally, I'm glad I fiberglassed the bottom of mine. I don't worry as much when I beach it on gravelly sand, haul it onto the trailer or bump into other obstructions. The LYS is ideal for skinny water and 'glassing it just made sense to me. I used 10 yds of 10 oz glass which was the perfect amount for the 18 footer - bought it from fiberglasssite.com, a good source. Good luck!
Ive the got the plans for walters lumberyard skiff and i had a question, how did you trim the butt blocks down after you screwed and glued it to install the chines
Yeah, trimming off the excess butt blocks to fit the chines and the sheer strake was a minor PITA. You could cut the chines and sheer strake first and then make the butt blocks smaller by those dimensions before you glue the butt blocks, or, what I did was a little more barbaric, I glued and screwed full sized butt blocks to the side panels and after the 5200 cured I used an angle grinder with a cutting wheel to cut off the top and bottom and a chisel to pry off the excess.
I also feel that Walters suggestion of using screws which are longer than the combined thickness of the side panels and butt block is worth the effort of grinding off the screw tips later on - ensures good thread contact all the way through.
ahh ok thanks for the reply cj
The ladybug is less refined in that they have poor trim on a plane in comparison to the LYS. They use considerably heavier framing and rubrails, which I can attest through extremely rough use of the LYS, is unnecessary. You end up carrying around more weight for less benefit. The way the rubrail is fashioned creates a trap for water around the top of the sheet of plywood, which is bad news. The LYS rubrail allows water to drain as it should, overboard, while the ladybug rubrail creates a small bead of water anytime it rains or gets spray that literally sits on a plywood edge, waiting for a chance to get in.
Coupled with those reasons is a proprietor who is unwilling to pay for his advertising, rather using garage-sale style advertising on free sites to market a for-profit business, which is crap. He also isn't designing anything, he just took the plans provided for the Brockway, copied them, and put them up for sale as his own. Walt did it the old fashioned way, making a half model and designing his own boat, specifically for her own purposes.
I stand by my comments, the LYS is a fantastic boat, rugged as they come. Walt is a conscientious, respectable businessman who I trust and am more than happy to not only give him my hard-earned cash, but help to promote his product that I firmly believe in.
Spookaloo...thanks for taking the time to write that out. I will take your comments into consideration when I make the decision on which to build. I'm still waiting on the plans for the Old Wharf LYS. I appreciate that you took the time to explain your previous comment.
When you start building your LYS, don't hesitate to get in touch if you have questions.
I am new to this forum. I built a 20' LYS last year to use as a work boat on my oyster farm. I used regular 3/4" underlayment plywood, fir and spruce for the hull and white oak for the rails, breasthook and knees. Since I knew the hull would be taking a beating I decided to glass and epoxy the exterior and then paint it with interlux epoxykote primer and interlux topside. So far the glass, epoxy and primer have held up well but the topside came off pretty quick (may be that I did not prep the primer properly). I followed Walt's advice and oiled the interior.
A lot of other oyster farmers here in Rhode Island have self bailing boats. At the end of the day my boat is full of mud crabs, seaweed and every other kind of fouling you can imagine. Since I keep my boat on a mooring and don't want it to rot (or stink and piss off folks at the marina) I spend a good 10 minutes at the end of each day cleaning it out. I would love to be able to wash out my boat instead. Has anyone tried to put a self bailing deck and scuppers on a LYS? If so how did they go about doing it. My hesitation is I don't want to invite rot. Also, do you think paint rather then oil for the interior would extend the life of the boat or just equal more maintenance? Any suggestions or experiences would be much appreciated.
You could do it, but given you heavy use, oiled interior, and materials used, I'd build a washdeck (self bailing) version from scratch. As she sits, you'd get rot issues under your sole pretty easily.
Once oiled, I'd stick with oil. I was just in a Pacific City dory a few weeks ago from the early '70s that was oiled plywood and it was still nice and sound.
please post pics of your 20 footer.
I'm interested in the LYS, too, as a replacement for my club's 13' Whaler. It serves mostly as a race committee, sail training, and general safety boat, but is also called on to help in beach cleanups, ferrying kid volunteers and garbage,etc. We need to carry three adults, and a pile of racing marks, which the whaler does now. The biggest issue w/ the whaler is that even at anchor, the bow seat takes a good wave every now and then, soaking the race timer's butt, and forcing a general recall. Our boat lives in the water at the dock from April to November, so is exposed to the elements. I would love a self bailing deck. CJ, do you think that could be done with the depth of the 18 you built, without unduly raising the C/G? And also, did you simply stretch the 16 out, or did you scale up all dimensions?
I'm a year away from a project like this, so plenty of time to fiddle with ideas.
Sorry, forgot to add that we have a Honda 30 long shaft, remote controls. Only about 80 hours on it. I'd do the center console.
My 16 sits in the water year-round in Spokane, about 2 hrs from Canada, in ice, sun, etc. It'll be fine on a mooring. Personally I don't see a need for the self bailing sole, it's a bunch of extra work, raises the CG, and makes the sides very low in relation to your knees for working over the rail picking things up. Your Whaler may be low as it is, so that might not be an issue. I work water sampling, log hauling, crabbing, towing, etc with my 16 footer, and I wouldn't do the self bailing sole. Only takes a minute to bail her out.
As for capacity, I've hauled myself plus 3 adults doing sampling, 50lbs of gear, 50lbs of water samples, and easily planed with a 1985 25hp outboard. Your load would be no problem at all.
I dunno, adding a self bailing cockpit to the 16' LYS would probably only leave you with 18 or so inches from the top of the cockpit surface to the rails; a bit low. For my 18 footer, I stretched it and widened it a bit, but to save on plywood, I did not increase the freeboard. Now, the 20 foot plans have higher sides and would better accommodate a self bailing cockpit.
Take a look at the "sample plans" from Spira International's Albion skiff http://www.spirainternational.com/hp_albi.php, the sides are higher making this option more feasible, or better yet the Anacapa http://www.spirainternational.com/hp_anac.php has wicked high sides. Give you some ideas anyway...
Thanks very much, I suspected that raising the deck would not be a great idea in this skiff. I use a float switch actuated pump in the whaler now, and that would work. I've had an alarming amount of rain water in the whaler, when the pump wasn't working, but the LYS has a lot more bearing in the stern, so would handle more water before getting to be a problem. I think the freeboard on the 16'er is enough for the 18 CJ built.
I left my skiff out during one series of storms here that resulted in around 3" of rain over a week. She floated just fine, as I have no electric pump, with all that water in her.
Check out John Gardner's 20ft Oyster skiff if you are looking for a self bailing sole.