Cypress planking

[Thad Van Gilder]

I am gonna throw together a little skiff in a few weeks, but I was thinking of planking with cypress rather than the Jersey Cedar I usually use. The reason being is there is a place selling cypress dirt cheap not far from me.

The plan is a 12 foot skiff with a cross planked bottom. in jersey cedar it would be 1/2 " sides and a 3/4" by about 6" crossplanked bottom. As I have never planked a skiff out of cypress, whats the deal. can I plank it as if it were cedar or should I go with narrower bottom planks?

This isn't to any particular design, its just like the other skiffs I have planked up. just a cheap work boat. Does anyone have experience with this stuff?

Thad

[Paul Pless]

cypress dirt cheap

I don't have any experience working with it, other than at the mill. I have helped my two neighbors saw it though. They are both custom sawyers of reclaimed wood, mostly heart pine from old cotton mills and cypress from river bottoms, but they do cut other lumber from time to time. Here's what I learned from them about bald cypress: If it comes out of a swamp or river bottom and its from a tree that's been in the river for 50 to a 100 years, the lumber goes for $12.00 to $20.00 a board foot depending on width. If its a second growth tree that didn't grow in water then they saw the boards up for privacy fencing complete with dog ears and sell them for $1.00 a piece - they claim the new growth ain't worth a damn!

[Mrleft8]

It moves a lot. It's also heavier.
When I was a kid we had a barn that was shingled in Cypress. On a summer day you could see through the shingles from inside. If a storm was moving in, it would swell up and be tight by the time the drops started hitting.
My Grandfather, who grew up on the James River outside of Richmond, said that the same thing was true of Tobacco barns down there.
I would do a little test before you cross plank, but it wouldn't suprise me to see a good 1/4" of movement over 6" from dry to soaking wet.

[Paul Pless]

It's also heavier.

Its exceedingly heavy when wet!

[Paul Pless]

5/8" X 20" X 20+ feet ong planks of Sinker Cypress..

$$$$$$

[Jay Greer]

Good stuff for below the waterline. Worms hate it! It is a little stringy to work when planed. All in all it is a bit heavy but when wet but, I like cypress for planking.
Jay

[Reynard38]

I used it in my Coquina, but it's all epoxy encapsulated. Nice to work with. It soaked up the epoxy very well. First coat was mostly absorbed.
It forms nice laminations as well. My molded shearstrakes and transom will be finished bright.
I have heard that it will soak up water in traditional construction. Apparently it is very rot resistant.

[Reynard38]

I don't have any experience working with it, other than at the mill. I have helped my two neighbors saw it though. They are both custom sawyers of reclaimed wood, mostly heart pine from old cotton mills and cypress from river bottoms, but they do cut other lumber from time to time. Here's what I learned from them about bald cypress: If it comes out of a swamp or river bottom and its from a tree that's been in the river for 50 to a 100 years, the lumber goes for $12.00 to $20.00 a board foot depending on width. If its a second growth tree that didn't grow in water
then they saw the boards up for privacy fencing complete with dog ears and sell them for $1.00 a piece - they claim the new growth ain't worth a damn!

It's gone up in price! I paid $7 /bf a year ago.

[Ian McColgin]

Goblin was cypress on oak. It was not heavier than boats of that size planked in mahogony. Fantasticly durable. I don't know if the cypress available in the 1920's was like what you'd get today.

[Ethan]

yeah that is true, and it like finding needle in haystack to locate a 200+ years old Sinker logs... requires diving team and floating sawmill..

Why would you need a floating sawmill? Think about it....

[Ethan]

I watch cypress prices pretty closely, and have for many years. I would say that Paul's old neighbor is selling at the high end of the spectrum. However, if you're getting those size planks for dirt cheap, it's either the 1% chance that the seller doesn't know what they have or the 99% chance that that's all it's worth. I agree completely with the statement that the second and third growth stuff you typically see is junk.

[orbb]

I used it for the bottom planks on my not-yet-launched Lumberyard Skiff. I was not very expensive (can't recall exact price), is very light when dry, and planed fairly easily. If I ever get the damn thing in the water, I'll let you know how it swells.

I varnished some pieces for a test, and it was very pretty. A very warm finished color.

Has Eddiebou chimed in? I think he performed an experiment last winter where he through a chunk into a barrel last winter and left it. If I recall correctly, his piece did swell appreciably, and after a period of time sank, as if it became water logged and lost its ability to float. Hopefully he'll post.

[Eddiebou]

Yeah, what orbb said is true. Mine was not old growth stuff. A (3/4" thick) 3 1/2" wide board will swell to 3 13/16" if left immersed and will get waterlogged after about 5 months. So leave a little space between your planks to allow for this. Cupping is a little bit of a problem, so use strong fasteners. I would not use cypress for the chines/kelson unless using screws.

[erster]

The problem here is that you are spoiled with knowing about White Cedar. If the wood is pale tanish white its not going to put smiles on your face or any additional money in your pocket. Forget about it. Its not worth the effort even if you are getting it free. Most all quality sinker cypress is greenish brown and heavy. The leading garu on cypress and has incredible success in real ife for small craft and medium sized trailer boats is Seedtick but does not post here regularly if you need some indepth insight into the current product going by the name of cypress.

[Dale Genther]

Thad, Remember our boat Bumps? She was a Chesapeake deasdrise with a cypress cross planked bottom. The planks were 1 1/4 thick and about 6-7 inches wide. This cypress bottom was put on her in 2001. I didn't notice that much difference in movement compared to cedar, is was heavier though. The hull side planking was pine. I had to replace about 1/3 of it over the years I owned her. I used cypress as it was cheap and available. I liked the stuff.

[Thad Van Gilder]

Dale, This place, AA lumber ( http://aalumber.com/default.aspx ) in Avondale has really cheap cypress. They service the mushroom industry and are located in Avondale, just over the boarder from Delaware.

Bumps looked tight, so I'd say its a reasonable bet...

[woodpile]

Parkerville lumber, Manchester, Ct. $3.00 a bf. Used it for deck bracing in a JBL.

[seedtick]

Just my opinion, but i pretty much agree with most of the posters. Grow back or new growth cypress for outdoor applications is OK only if your outdoor application is mulch. It's takes a cypress tree 400 years to develop the oils that make it naturally water and bug resistant. New stuff just doesn't have it.

Sinker cypress - old growth cypress that was lost during the logging operation a hundred years ago - is available. It's just not always easy to get, so it tends to be expensive. Grow back is about a dollar or so a board foot around here while the good stuff runs about $5 or $6 a board foot off the mill, with the wide longs (27" X 30 ') a few dollars more.

Yes cypress does swell considrably when wet. The old folks built boats loose, put them in the water to swell tight and never took them out. We build tight and keep the wood well sealed so it doesn't get wet and swell.

[simonmags]

Very Interesting thread this, I've recently discovered that one of the tree's in the front yard is a Cypress tree, it's not 400 years old yet though...

I think it is a Cupressus arizonica - have been trying to identify it over at this thread ( http://www.woodworkforums.com/f14/tr...e-help-143044/ ). Anyway hopefully when I cut it down it will yeild some useful wood for making frames, not sure if I'll have enough to use for planking.

From reading this thread it looks like if a guy was to build an Epoxy boat with Cypress that should be okay and not swell as much as a traditionally planked boat?

p.s. that sinker cypress is some impressive looking stuff, love how big that stump is seedtick

[Jayhawk]

Very Interesting thread this, I've recently discovered that one of the tree's in the front yard is a Cypress tree, it's not 400 years old yet though...

I think it is a Cupressus arizonica - have been trying to identify it over at this thread ( http://www.woodworkforums.com/f14/tr...e-help-143044/ ). Anyway hopefully when I cut it down it will yeild some useful wood for making frames, not sure if I'll have enough to use for planking.

From reading this thread it looks like if a guy was to build an Epoxy boat with Cypress that should be okay and not swell as much as a traditionally planked boat?

p.s. that sinker cypress is some impressive looking stuff, love how big that stump is seedtick

I have a Cypress in my front yard as well, Bald Cypress. Its a fashionable yard tree these days because it has a pleasing pyramid shape and light-diffusing shade. I don't like it in my yard because it's such a thirsty tree, and I live on an arid horse plain.

I see these in amusement parks down south all the time, lining all the artificial ponds, especially water parks where theres a lot of overflow from slides. Most of those parks were built in the 50s or 60s and my eyeball tells me the biggest ones are 40 to 50' tall. You can judge a fast growing, healthy Cypress from a bad one by the size of its 'knees' (root protrusions climbing vertically out of the soil 6-10")

[woodpile]

Just curious boylesboats, what do you do with a stump like that or is it just the mother of all chopping blocks.

[seedtick]

woodpile, you've likely got boylesboats and me mixed up - that's me sitting by that stump

We often pull up logs that are too big for the mill. In that case you either have to manually split the log or just cut off the part that's too big for the mill. Since these logs can be 50 or 60 feet long, cutting off a few feet is no big deal. Some folks like a big chunk for decoration - say in a restaurant, with a stuffed alligator on top. Some folks like thinner sections to make table tops. Three to five foot long sections can be split off with a froe to make pickets. Shorter sections can be split off for shingles. Split off into small chunks, folks can make bowls, spoons, small dugouts, boats and other craft type projects.

Cypress is too soft for a chopping block. A dry piece of cypress will soak up its weight in water, another reason to not use as a chopping block

[Zepher]

Noah's Ark was built of Gopher Wood, which was supposed to be Cypress. Might hold up for 40 days and 40 nights.... Any boat plans in cubits?