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Thread: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    Marc,

    The panels in the plans for the model are for a building method similar to stitch and glue. So there is no overlap.


    This picture from a stitch and glue tutorial shows the way the panels get connected in a full-sized build. For my wooden boat models I use adhesive tape instead of stitching with wire and instead of epoxy-fillet I use cyanacrylate and for a paper-model simply adhesive tape.
    Here you can see pictures of the build of a Duck Punt model and here the build of another boat model.

    Stefan

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    Flo-Mo,

    Thanks for the reply and the other model links.

    Now I just need to finish the sons kayak so I can move on.

    I'm wondering what the reaction would be to a sliding seat faering at my local fishing lake. Probably just as much amusement as our catamaran row boats. Have you seen any SOF faerings?

    Marc

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    OEX,

    Did you have any other information on this boat? it looks quite a bit narrower than the other boats in the post. Perhaps it is just this is upside down and the others right side up?

    Marc

    Quote Originally Posted by OEX View Post
    Another one--not sure what she looks like now---this was 1999 or so. She was in dire need to Tar then so....? L'Anse aux Meadows Newfoundland.



    cheers

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    Hi, I love the look of these faerings but haven't seen or been in one on the water- I'm thinking of building a 'trial run' (cheap/quick/rough ;-) ) to get a better idea...
    Looking at the Gokstad plans above and on Flo-mo's website but the 21'4" is just too long for me. So I thought to scale everything down by about 15% to 18' 6". This would also change the beam from 4'6" to3'10" and the midship depth from 18" to about 16".
    Does this sound ballpark sensible to people more familiar with these boats or will it give a massive loss in stability/freeboard? Nic

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    You will loose stability and freeboard. 10% is the limit of straight scaling.
    A rule of thumb is that if you scale the length by a factor, you scale the beam by the square root of the number.
    For a 15% (0.85) reduction in length scale the beam by 0.93, you could probably get away without changing the beam. Don't reduce the depth at all, they sit low enough as it is.
    This is Peerie Maa

    She is 18 ' over the stems and 5' beam, from the same bloodline but after 1000 years development.
    Alternatively look at the Oselver Faering for proportions.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  6. #41
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    Great thanks Peerie, you're saying the same as my gut was! I made a paper model from these plans and like the lines and the feel of it; concerned it would lose some of this if I just reduced the length and look 'cartoony'. Also whether this alteration would be asking too much twist of the ply. Guess I'll adapt the plan and do paper model of that and see what I think...

    As I said, this is only a trial run.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    Have you seen Watercraft No. 99, pge 18?
    Superyacht builder Tom White builds a Gokstad inspired Viking day boat. Lots of goog pics and an interesting use of a deck to set the moulds and calculate the waterline.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    Quote Originally Posted by nic 1 View Post
    Great thanks Peerie, you're saying the same as my gut was! I made a paper model from these plans and like the lines and the feel of it; concerned it would lose some of this if I just reduced the length and look 'cartoony'. Also whether this alteration would be asking too much twist of the ply. Guess I'll adapt the plan and do paper model of that and see what I think...

    As I said, this is only a trial run.
    I'd not worry about twisting the ply. The original was built with oak and a thick pine shear strake. They bent without any bother. Look at these threads to see how easy it is to build this form.
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...-Faering-Build
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...g-build-update This will lead you to the report of an earlier build of the same 4 strake faering.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  9. #44
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    Bertil Andersson has plans for Nordlands faering.


    See. http://batritningar.se/en/105

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    The problem with the Gokstad faering is that we don't know what it's intended use may have been. The Ship was a "royal" yacht. There was a bigger boat a sixereen which may have been the ships tender.

    Norwegian culture up until the late 19'c included the use of fast boats, sent ahead of the Laird to arrange accommodation etc. It is possible that the faering was a fast rowing boat to be used by the best watermen, to go ahead of the ships owner to arrange appropriate welcome when he was visiting. That may be why she is so slender and also intended only for sheltered water.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  11. #46
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study




    Then the keel plunged
    and shook in the sea; and they sailed from Denmark.

    Right away the mast was rigged with its sea-shawl;
    sail-ropes were tightened, timbers drummed
    and stiff winds kept the wave-crosser
    skimming ahead; as she heaved forward,
    her foamy neck was fleet and buoyant,
    a lapped prow loping over currents,
    until finally the Geats caught sight of coastline
    and familiar cliffs. The keel reared up,
    wind lifted it home, it hit on the land.

    -- Beowulf, c. 800 AD

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    another, really basic, question:

    Pencil, paper and ruler on printouts are failing me. I like Flo-mo's faering and want to scale down the length by c.15% (to about 18') but leave beam and depth as original. There must be a simple drafting/photo app starting from a jpeg image that would allow me to-
    1 measure printouts of his patterns,
    2 reduce horizontal only by a set percentage (in this case 15%)
    3 increase printout size (by calculated percentage) to give me 1-10 scale patterns I could do a paper model from and then put onto graph paper to plot lofting co-ordinates from for the build.
    Any simple advice-I'm not very computer literate!?

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    Ask Flo-Mo to do it.
    He would probably love being asked.
    Of course I don't know him.

    Is 15% enough of a change to bother doing? 38" change.

    21' 2" is too big for your facilities?

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    Quote Originally Posted by nic 1 View Post
    another, really basic, question:

    Pencil, paper and ruler on printouts are failing me. I like Flo-mo's faering and want to scale down the length by c.15% (to about 18') but leave beam and depth as original. There must be a simple drafting/photo app starting from a jpeg image that would allow me to-
    1 measure printouts of his patterns,
    2 reduce horizontal only by a set percentage (in this case 15%)
    3 increase printout size (by calculated percentage) to give me 1-10 scale patterns I could do a paper model from and then put onto graph paper to plot lofting co-ordinates from for the build.
    Any simple advice-I'm not very computer literate!?
    I think changing the beam would be a mistake, she is skinny enough as it is. Peerie Maa is from the same family and has 5 foot of beam on 18 foot over the horns. The Oselver fairing was also 5 foot beam on just over 18 foot. From this you can see that the original at 4' 6" is skinny already.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  15. #50
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    I missed something.
    The OP wants to reduce the length without reducing the beam.
    So in relative terms the boat will be wider for its length.
    Of course that still does reduce the stability in a minor way.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    Quote Originally Posted by upchurchmr View Post
    I missed something.
    The OP wants to reduce the length without reducing the beam.
    So in relative terms the boat will be wider for its length.
    Of course that still does reduce the stability in a minor way.
    Re read his post, you are correct, length only it is.
    Easy peasy, trace the originals onto graph paper, do it by pricking through if you need to, then use French curves to draw the shapes. Then reduce the spacing of the sections by 15%, this will work for the hull and the plank expansions.
    I can't help with an app for the computer dummy. I use Freeship, but as a practising NA I am used to something similar at work.
    If you intend to build it you are going to have to learn to loft, which is pencil, paper and ruler at full size.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  17. #52
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    Nick,

    My impression is that the boards in this design will be a ruled surface. I.E, at a section cut each plank will a straight line from one chine to the next. That would mean a ruler rather than a french curve.
    If this is built from the keel up and the Gunwale plank is force inward to make the proper section this would not be true.
    My ignorance of the typical build is showing.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    Quote Originally Posted by upchurchmr View Post
    Nick,

    My impression is that the boards in this design will be a ruled surface. I.E, at a section cut each plank will a straight line from one chine to the next. That would mean a ruler rather than a french curve.
    If this is built from the keel up and the Gunwale plank is force inward to make the proper section this would not be true.
    My ignorance of the typical build is showing.
    I was recommending the French curves for joining the dots on the development drawing.
    If you are wrapping ply around a boat shape, the straight line generators rarely lie on a frame.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  19. #54
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    There is, or at least there was a Gokstad Faering in the plans that come with Hulls software. How accurate,is hard to say.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    Thanks all for interest and advice, yes it's just the length I want to reduce. I managed this quite simply in the end by opening flo-mo's diagram in 'paint' (on microsoft) then resizing the horizontal to 85%. Obviously this reduced beam of the bulkhead frames so I reverted to original for them. Then printed, measured the scale, upped the overall percentage by, if I remember right, 275% until I got a printed scale of near enough 10:1

    This gave me a pattern for a 10% model, I built a very rough model with ply frames and lino sides (not ideal!) It looks ok, not as sleek as the original of course. The original diagram has quite blurred lines and jerky curves especially when magnified though. I'm not very confident that a full sized plywood build would actually be true enough. Are there more accurate drawings somewhere?

    Peerie, re. lofting; I think I could manage the lofting ok for building an actual boat-I was just looking for a shortcut for playing around with ideas on a small scale. If I go ahead with building this boat I'd use your pricking through and french curving idea onto 10mm graph paper then draw a 10cm grid on the ply and use battern or beading to get the curves. I built a couple of little dinghies last year using similar method ( http://koti.kapsi.fi/hvartial/dinghy2/auray_m.htm ) which worked out fine...

    Has anyone experience of the Gokstad on the water? I'm wondering how it would compare to Ian Oughtred's skerrieskiff 17 or the CLC skerry for seaworthyness, rowing/sailing capabilities etc.

    Apologies for highjacking your thread a bit Flo-mo

    Nic

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    Two small booklets were written on the Gokstad faering in the UK. They include its design, lines, construction and its rowing performance.

    McGrail, Sean, and McKee, Eric, The Building and Trials of the Replica of an Ancient Boat, the Gokstad Faering, in two parts (Part 1 and Part 2), Maritime Monographs, No 11, National Maritime Museum, London 1974






    Well out of print, you'll need to search second hand booksellers. I have a look when I get home, they speed trialed it...

    Ed

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    Two rowers.

    Sprint speed was 7.5 Knots

    Over 1-2 miles 6 knots

    Longer duration 5 knots.
    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 08-02-2013 at 04:11 PM.

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    Quote Originally Posted by nic 1 View Post
    Peerie, re. lofting; I think I could manage the lofting ok for building an actual boat-I was just looking for a shortcut for playing around with ideas on a small scale. If I go ahead with building this boat I'd use your pricking through and french curving idea onto 10mm graph paper then draw a 10cm grid on the ply and use battern or beading to get the curves. I built a couple of little dinghies last year using similar method ( http://koti.kapsi.fi/hvartial/dinghy2/auray_m.htm ) which worked out fine...

    Apologies for highjacking your thread a bit Flo-mo

    Nic
    One way to get the lines on 'graph paper' is make an Excel spreadsheet look like graph paper, paste the image (in Excel 2010 or later) and use format to remove the background, leaving just the lines. It is best to set the image properties to "Don't move or size with cells". Now you can resize the image and count squares to get dimensions.

    To make 'graph paper' in Excel, 'Select all' and set the row height and column widths to the same small number of pixels. The second number when you are dragging the cell size, in parentheses, is the number of pixels. This gives you a square grid that is very uniform. By resizing the picture, you can get the lines on a square grid that helps to measure the offsets. One problem is that you can't read any letters or numbers in very small cells, so you might want to make some wider columns for numbers. This is where "Don't move or size with cells" keeps you from distorting the lines image.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    Quote Originally Posted by flo-mo View Post
    Yes and the answer is 4.




    This is for a stitch and glue version made of 4 sheets of 9mm plywood which in no way will have the grace and beauty of the original but I think it should not be a difficult boat to build.
    So I too have been looking into building such a boat, but I would rather do it as a clinker instead of stitch and glue. I've built two stitch and glue boats so far, and I think I would like to attempt the clinker now that I have a shop and tools to do well with it, including a steamer my pa and I built so we could do chairs and other bending projects.

    So my question would be this: COULD you use these dimensions for a lapstrake or modify them a little to make that work so rivets can be used? And as a side note, where does one get rivets, I see a lot of stuff online for copper and brass but not a ton of iron.

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainMansonBrigg View Post
    So I too have been looking into building such a boat, but I would rather do it as a clinker instead of stitch and glue. I've built two stitch and glue boats so far, and I think I would like to attempt the clinker now that I have a shop and tools to do well with it, including a steamer my pa and I built so we could do chairs and other bending projects.

    So my question would be this: COULD you use these dimensions for a lapstrake or modify them a little to make that work so rivets can be used? And as a side note, where does one get rivets, I see a lot of stuff online for copper and brass but not a ton of iron.
    Use these plank expansions, with an inch added to the top edge of the two lower strakes.



    Quote Originally Posted by flo-mo View Post


    Here you can find Pdf-downloads of plans for a simple paper model (the keel has the thickness of the paper or cardboard you use and is attached after the hull is assembled) and for a wooden model with a keel that would equal a thickness of one inch. The building method corresponds to stitch and glue and there are a lot of simplifications. Nevertheless the hull shape is close to the original.

    Have fun.
    I expect that you will need to send to Scandinavia for galvo iron boat nails and roves. Nothing wrong with copper clinker nails and bronze screws into the keel and stems.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  26. #61
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Use these plank expansions, with an inch added to the top edge of the two lower strakes.
    I expect that you will need to send to Scandinavia for galvo iron boat nails and roves. Nothing wrong with copper clinker nails and bronze screws into the keel and stems.
    Awesome. Any suggestions on the thickness of the strakes? 1/2 in? 1/4 in? 3/4 in? My steamer works pretty good so I'm not worried about not being able to flex it, I just don't want the thing to be heavier than it has to be lol.

    And ok, In my head I saw copper rivets oxidizing pretty bad and turning the wood green, but I guess if I take care of them that shouldn't be an issue. I'd like to pich it with traditional tar or wax mixture anyways.

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    I've been thinking the same as Peerie, except I was going to add the inch at the bottom of the top two strakes. I've no idea if that would make any difference?

    Re. Ply I am thinking 9mm (c. 3/8") I should say that I'm no engineer just that's what feels right.

    it's all in my category of 'notions for next winter' at the moment though. We've just built some currachs (see my Community currach build thread) and this summer will be busy finishing them off, coming up with a sail rig and taking them fishing and camping around West Cork!

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    Quote Originally Posted by nic 1 View Post
    I've been thinking the same as Peerie, except I was going to add the inch at the bottom of the top two strakes. I've no idea if that would make any difference?

    Re. Ply I am thinking 9mm (c. 3/8") I should say that I'm no engineer just that's what feels right.
    I'm not sure how much of a difference that would make. In my experience, whenever I've built and posted on this forum if I try and alter a plan too much I get all sorts of grief about it. The last boat I did I didn't listen the wise old codfish and though it was a fun day to take the bloody thing out, it was an awful sailboat XD So I'd be careful and maybe post a few similar threads to see what these wise oldtimers have to say!

    Quote Originally Posted by nic 1 View Post
    it's all in my category of 'notions for next winter' at the moment though. We've just built some currachs (see my Community currach build thread) and this summer will be busy finishing them off, coming up with a sail rig and taking them fishing and camping around West Cork!
    Amazing! Best of luck! I am currently just enjoying my old canoe till the workshop get's dropped and built this week. Once I have my tablesaw, router, and bandsaw up and going, I plan on ripping out the six planks and the keel with viggor!

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    Thanks, yes it's been great the currach build!

    re. oldtimers; that's precisely why I'm posting my ideas here, to see what they say... The 9mm though is also what Flo Mo suggested as well as feeling right to me. I did wonder about 13mm but not sure about the twist ( haven't tried steaming) or the effect on hullshape if lapping. Also it would make the boat a good bit heavier and more expensive-I'm on a tight budget and need to move it on a small car roofrack.

    Its a close race between the enjoyment of design/build and being out on the water for me. So I don't mind too much that the final stages of my builds seem to be accompanied by the dawning realisation of what would have been better. So far they've all floated fine and been useful enough for something. And there's always the next ;-)

  30. #65
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    Draw a stitch and glue joint on a sheet of paper. Sketch two pairs of parallel lines about 1/2" apart and intersecting at whatever fairly shallow angle you like. Where they meet, the stitch and glue joint is essentially a butt joint, a line straight across the intersection. If you continue the upper plank past the lower plank, you have a lap streak joint. So yes, nic 1, extend the lower edge. Nick was typing faster than thinking for a change. His suggestion sounded right until I drew the picture.

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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    Thanks Dave, that follows my line of thought. I'd imagine also that in riveting the overlap you'd also be pulling more of a curve into the hull profile, as opposed to hard chines. Would that have much effect on performance?

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    Quote Originally Posted by MN Dave View Post
    Draw a stitch and glue joint on a sheet of paper. Sketch two pairs of parallel lines about 1/2" apart and intersecting at whatever fairly shallow angle you like. Where they meet, the stitch and glue joint is essentially a butt joint, a line straight across the intersection. If you continue the upper plank past the lower plank, you have a lap streak joint. So yes, nic 1, extend the lower edge. Nick was typing faster than thinking for a change. His suggestion sounded right until I drew the picture.
    The boat can be built either way, adding to the bottom edges will exactly copy the shape of the moulds. By adding to the lower edges the shear strake will look wider making a difference to the appearance of the boat. If you are building in the traditional way without molds, you can do either. You will need to increase the half breadths of the moulds by the sideing of the stems and keel as well.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  33. #68
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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    Whoa! Have any of these come to fruition? I ask because my Viking group is moving towards building such a vessel.

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    Default Re: Gokstad Faering - Design Study

    Hi, I am new to this fourm. I came here to possible find a way to acquire plans for the fearing, and plssibly any advice fir constructing the boat? Thanks

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