16ft Dory build.

[goat]

Hello team.

I started a thread while back for ideas on a wooden dory.

I have gone with designing my own. I have taken the best of the San Juan http://www.nexusmarine.com/san_juan_...struction.html and some of the Bateau OD16 ideas http://www.bateau.com/proddetail.php?prod=OD16

My requirements were

1. Easily driven, fuel is going thru the roof. One of the reasons for giving up the 17ft ali and 70hp outift.
2. Use in shallow waters. We have harbours here in NZ with huge flats.
3. Console steer.
4. Glass over ply construction

The engine I have always planned to use in a Honda 4 stroke 20hp. 25-30 are 1/3 more the cost.

Timber used for the temp frames is rough sawn 6"x1" which we can use around the farm afterwards.

Few notes on that;
The San Juan reckons 15-20hp for thier boat. But then thier boat has a 5'7" beam. The Bateau OD16 reckon 20-40hp but then thier boat has a 7ft beam.

Im going with a 6'3" beam but I have made mine similar to the Bateau with a chine step (basically a 3 chine hull), which will give me a narrow 1.2m wide peice of timber in the water at planing speed.

One of the things with a flat bottom dory is a hard wet ride in any sort of sea. So I have flared the front end out and made the entry finer whilst still retaining a flat aft section.

Make sense?

Timber used will be;
Marine ply BS1088 - 9mm hull and 6mm sides. Will have a self draining floor also 6mm, stifened.
Kauri for kelson and stringers.
Milk tree. Also for stringers and framing. More on this later


Well, anyway. On to some pics.

Below is the starting stages.

We (my dad and I) made a full size lofting table/bench, in the right of the pic.




Getting some frames up





Adding a fair baton to check lines etc...

[goat]

Got a bit more done today


Bit more done




Adding the stem...





Marrying up the kelson to front end

[goat]

Okay.

I mentioned Milk tree before.

There is a blurb on it here http://www.lumberbank.co.nz/sawn-timber-milk-tree/

I have never used it before. My dad has never heard of it (and he knows a thing or 2 about boat building)

It is very straight grained. Fairs/bends well and even. Its lightweight. Which made me think. Why dont I use it for stringers?

So now I have saved the Kauri and gone with the milk tree for all stringers and chine rails.

It is easy to plane also. Kauri is nice, well probably and understatment. Kauri is the king of boat building timber, no doubt. Where kauri planes like soap, milk tree is like ivory, or chalk. Its is very easy to shape and work with.

Few pics of both then;

Rough sawn kauri just planed. No sanding neccessary, this timber is like gold. Underneath is a 210x20mm milk tree.




The milk tree. I tried the plain out on an off cut (below). About half a dozen cuts and I had a nice edge on both end and long grain. Its nice wood to work with for sure. Very pleased. Its also 1/4 price of the kauri!!!.

[floatingkiwi]

Did you consider rot resistance? Have you used it before ? It looks nice. I bet it carves real good too, by the photo and your description.
I have a 16 foot dory that I beefed up the ends of and built a short deck across the centre to stop the flat hull from bending whilst ploughing across rough water. A 20 hp 4 stroke powers it and I do 20 mph with a bunch of weight in it. More when empty. When conditions make the flat bottom unsuitable I carve through the water in an S shape using the chine as a way to cleave the water like a vee hull might.Otherwisw it is priceless in the narrow shallow waterways I often frequent , that interconnect the myriad of saltwater river systems that are all over the place just down the road.
When the swell is slight and the wind offshore I take her out in the open sea for salmon etc.
I once dropped a 4 cylinder engine with gearbox, a Palmer marine petrol engine, about 8 feet onto her gunwale.The same gunwale I was standing on trying to free the engine from ropes I had tied it to a three pole structure with, earlier, when the tide was higher. It was gettin late and I was tired and cut the wrong rope with only two ropes left and down it came. It didn't land on my foot but right next to it, crushed the gunwales surface and I found myself instantly beneath the dark murky water with ropes around me and an engine next to me. I was not hurt, I thought as I lay there for a bit. This was good. Then I discovered that I was able to touch the mud and when I placed my feet on it realized I could stand with my upper body out of the water. Ok, where's the boat, I thought. There she was, next to me, everything in it was gone. Tools , a battery, everything was in the mud, but the Chameleon, WAS UPRIGHT with no water inside her.I was impressed with that.
I reckon she is the perfect boat for sheltered waters, especially the shallow narrow ones, and trailering with the flat bottom is easy with flat plywood as a surface to winch her onto. My transom was really narrow and I built a flat fin that made the hull wider at the stern, making her pop straight up level with any forward movement at all, otherwise she was always ass down at any speed.
Are you gonna add rocker to the flat section. I am sure this is what helps my boat to carve through turns as nice as it does.
Good luck with things mate. I'll be watching your work with interest.

[goat]

I am coating all of the inside with Everdure. This wood appears to soak up resins and glues well so it will be well preserved.

There is no rocker in the hull. Dory's will 'carve' or probably more appropriately 'slide' around due to that large flat area.

I am looking forward to getting into some shallow spots, I am also putting rollicks forward of the console and a seat so I can row her around in the shallows for stealth. I do a fair amount of saltwater fly fishing.

The build will take a bit of time, I am not doing it full time, just an after work project.

How long have you been state side floatingkiwi? I myself, grew up on the Manukau Harbour, which is where this boat will see a lot of sea. I have fond memories of battling south west gale force winds against opposing outgoing tide seas and burrying half of the 22dt Hartley yacht my dad built in green waves in the channel off the end of the Auckland airport. I am sure my mother would have kittens if she knew that it was I did for fun! I dare say this dory will get tested well enough, I will make sure of it.

[goat]

Bit more done today.

Glues arrived.

Glued up the transom which is a permanent frame (so it had to be square!).



Checked out the temp frames so chine rails could sit in thier correct line.



Put in chine rail 1 and checked fairness. All looking good.





Cut out stem and glued permenant shape.



You can see the hull shape better now, flat aft, finer entry than your typical dory.

The paper around the frames is so when we glue the ply onto chine rails we dont get the temp frames glued in as well! Same goes for the plastic rap in some pics.

Chines will be held in place by small blocks glued from the back (or inside of the hull) which will be removed after ply is glued on.

I did a quick calc on $$$. I have all the timber I need and glues. Im sitting at about $1500US so far. Resins and cloth will be next. I want to come in under $10KNZ (or 8.2K US) with engine. Time will tell.

[floatingkiwi]

Been here 3 times since 92. Married an American girl 5 years ago.
My last two days in NZ were spent hauling kingies out of the Manakau at Nine Pin Rock, with my best mate.The sea took his life 4 years ago.
I epoxied the outside of my boat and rot found its way into the chines both sides, unseen , through small nail holes I think, and destroyed the timber beneath the paint inside for about half the boats length.I wuz cleaning her out after fishing one day and noticed the telltale peeling paintwork and three hours later, you could have played tennis through both sides of it after I cut out a subxtantial amount of the boats frames and plywood sides.
But shes good now. No rot will travel through her again like that as there is to much epoxy to block it off .
I think I would leave her bare inside if I did it again. So the wood can dry out. I thought about how it would be with no epoxy covering it anywhere but I like the hard smooth bulletproof shell. Rotting wood is easy to replace in this kind of design I reckon.I am sure you have everything under control, I just thought you might find this helpful.
You're tearing through it mate. She'll be on the water before you know it. 10 grand should be way more than you need there Goat.Or am I used to different prices? Are you gonna buy an outboard new?

[goat]

Yeah, prices might be a bit better over there, I get most of my hobby stuff off eBay for that reason, scopes, fishing gear etc etc. The motor alone here will be just over $6K!

Not sure what boys in the US use for timber? I know this countries boat building industry owes a huge debt to the mighty Kauri. Kiwi boat builders are pretty sought after.

[goat]

I guess traditionally flat bottomed, 2 sides (when you actually start to look around at plans etc). There are variations of these, of which mine is one.

The original dory was designed to stack inside each other and were taken to sea by bigger ships then unstacked and men would go fishing and sometimes drown.

Dory 101.

[JTLogan]

I guess traditionally flat bottomed, 2 sides (when you actually start to look around at plans etc). There are variations of these, of which mine is one.

The original dory was designed to stack inside each other and were taken to sea by bigger ships then unstacked and men would go fishing and sometimes drown.

Dory 101.

Goat,
The traditional dory form certainly comes in a variety of shapes. The flat-sided stackable bank dory is one type, among a long list of others. The one thing all traditional dory types have in common is a flat bottom, which your boat does not have. There are a number of other salient characteristics that define the dory shape, some pertain to shape, and others to construction. No one with a fair understanding of traditional craft would consider your present design a dory.

[AnalogKid]

Seems to go flat at mold #3, and the OP mentions flared entry with flat aft run.

The photos appears to show a wide transom and it's designed to motor, so I'd have referred to it as a semi-dory.

[goat]

Dont split hairs guys, I am using a small digi camera, there is distortion in the pics for sure.

I would go with semi dory then if I had to call it something. The Estuary where I grew up was full of these things, we knew them as 'flaties' or 'dory's'.

My grandfather and my dad built boats (in fact my grand-dad built many boats that went to the islands and help defend this country with help from uncle Sams boys, cheers). My dad built a few cup winners too, he could probably build this in his sleep. I guess they both have a fair understanding of traditional boat building you could say. Thanks for the input/thoughts, its all good stuff.

Its is actually flat from the transom frame thru to frame 6. 5 starts to dive off a bit etc etc. Frame 2 is realy temp, and 1 isnt in the pic, I made a slight change in this area for a bulk head in the front etc.

[goat]

Got the transom frame in place.



Many measurements to make sure that part is square. All good.



Ticking along.

[gstanfield]

Looking god, nice design you have going there

[floatingkiwi]

Goat,
The traditional dory form certainly comes in a variety of shapes. The flat-sided stackable bank dory is one type, among a long list of others. The one thing all traditional dory types have in common is a flat bottom, which your boat does not have. There are a number of other salient characteristics that define the dory shape, some pertain to shape, and others to construction. No one with a fair understanding of traditional craft would consider your present design a dory.

Will you please list these salient characteristics that define the dory , be it in shape or the building of it?

[JTLogan]

Will you please list these salient characteristics that define the dory , be it in shape or the building of it?

The traditional dory, both bank and Swampscott, had a bottom that was flat from the heel of the stem to the heel of the transom. In other words, no deadrise over the entire length of the bottom. The bottom was typically planked fore and aft rather than cross-planked. The construction was typically lapstrake on widely spaced permanent sawn frames. The garboard plank was usually fastened directly to the bottom without a chine log. There are lots of variations on this basic theme, and the dividing line between a dory and sharpie is not distinct, especially when planked with plywood. The Dory Book is a decent reference.

Goat is free to call his build whatever he chooses, but there is nothing about the hull shape that makes it a dory. And just to confuse the issue, here's a production fiberglass boat with a cathedral hull that is also known as a dory.

[goat]

No disrespect, can you guys take your debate someplace else please. I have a dory to build.

[stevebla]

Build on Goat, I hope to build another small boat soon and will call it a dory. Keep pictures comming.

[goat]

Bit more done today.

Squared up transom and fixed/braced in place.

Glued in bottom chine rail fore and aft.










Shear rail and bottom chines on both sides done today. Glued, fixed.

Tommorow, chine 2. Then fair the chines off at the right angle ready for ply.

Starting to take shape.

[goat]

Bit more added today. Slower progress. Added 2nd chine and took many measurements to make sure she was all square and fair. Last chance, once ply is on, no changes can be made.





Showing back half of the sheer line.



stern looking forward



Starting to shape up the stem.



Chine 2 faires out to nothing by frame 2, bow section has some flare in the front 1ft (hollow if you like), which should throw the water out.

Bit of camera distortion, I even re-checked it after seeing these pics, she is true alright. Eventually will feed the measurements into the tabel of off-sets and fire it all into the computer hull program to she how it look. Will make the next one way easier. This is a prototype I guess.

Quite happy with the shape.

[gstanfield]

Quite happy with the shape.

As well you should be, she's a sharp looking girl.

[goat]

One thing I have added from both designs I mentioned, is another 3" to the side deck. The other had the side deck lower than my knee (Im 182cm), which meant if you were leaning over the side deck and lost your footing, swim time. Now it is just above my knee, so you get a decent purchase.

Cheers for the comments.

I am already thinking of paints. International Brightside is what I am going with, applied with the air gun. Dark blue hull/deck, Kingston grey inside. http://www.boatcraft.com/Paint.shtml Mahogony trim if I feel flash.

[goat]

Chines etc in place. Held from the back by small blocks which will be removed from the inside once glassing etc finished and she is flipped over.

Starting fairing off.

[goat]

Started on the ply.

Scarfing the ends ready to join lengths...





Glueing ply together... sides and hull..



All glued, clamped... waiting to dry

[goat]

No offence taken. Where Im from it would be a dory, although I would call it a modified dory. Im sure terms vary from country to country. If there is an admin or mod around maybe they could adjust the titile of the thread to whatever suits. I will build on, thanks for the input to date, keep the opinions coming.

[goat]

Starting cutting and fitting the hull panels this arvo. 9mm ply. Thought it may be hard to get the curve at the front end with 9mm but with clamps she pulled around okay.

Mostly cut, temp held in place with some screws for now. Glue in a couple of days.



Can see she is finer in the entry here than a normal flat bottom dory





Few days will glue it on.

Doing it in reverse mainly because of that twist in the heavier ply on the bow. Will be easier to get this in place doing the hull section first then sides etc etc.

[goat]

Next panel on.

First setting up the transition from the ply laid on the chines to butt jointed at the front where is fairs out.





All laid on and glued down. I had the .17HMR out to rid the farm of some parrots while I was working, I got 8 in 2 days :-)





Wait for tommorrow for the top sides.

[goat]

Managed to get some fairing off of the bottom and chine done...

This morning got the top sides glued on...

For better of worse, this is the final hull shape.





Hotter day today, should be able to trim her up and do some more fairing this arvo. So far all Ive had to do is take to the overlaps with the plain with a small amount of sanding with the belt sander and she has been fair so Im happy I got the lines right first up. All good.

[Breakaway]

Voila! A boat!

Kevin

[goat]

Yeah. She is pretty fair and true, not much filling will be needed. Just the front end where I have a hollow section in the front of the bow to help throw the chop out (will post pics of that later).

Pretty happy, have taken table of offsets of it and kept the lofting sheets.

Tommorow, sanding... sanding.... and then some sanding.

[simonmags]

Looking really nice Mr Goat. You should bring it over here when your done building it for it's maiden voyage... Where did you get the plans from, I like the look of it. What sort of Engine are you thinking about.

Cheers and keep up the good work

Another Aussie

Whoops (ignore what i asked about the plans i just re-read the first post).

[goat]

Firstly on the plans. I didnt use either of the ones I had (in the first post). I did the full size lofting out to get a boat that "looked" right for what I required. I can see the value in lofting for sure.

I dont really like the idea of stitch and glue, seems to me thats something for dress makers not boat builders, I guess it sells plans. I can certainly see why guys who build stitch and glue use heavier cloths and lots of fairing powder (I can see myself winning friends with that comment).

I wanted the engine to be either a 15 or 20 hp 4 stroke Honda. The reason for a 4 stroke is a different debate altogether. The reason for the size (hp) was for economy. Im not the richest person about but I like to go fishing often. I found many design but most required a 30 or 40hp motor, crazy stuff.

If she performs well I may sort the table of offsets out for you. That is if you are into full size lofting building boats the "proper" way.

"Another Aussie"?? Wait until we meet in the semi finals, I am backing you Aussies to beat South A so dont let me down!.

[goat]

Most of the day sanding, putting epoxy bog and glue in tiny screw hole now screws have all been removed.

Few pics.







This is the only hollow or negative space in the bow section. The grey stuff is epoxy filler. There is a slight neg curve in this part which is part of the 'plan'. Should help throw that annoying chop out not up and over (like a typical dory) giving a drier ride. Also in a following sea if I do come off the back of a wave a charge into the next one the bow shouldnt bury itself and cause broaching. The flare will actually gain lift and hopefully prevent this. Something I didnt like about the OD16 design was those big flat bow sections, not a good thing IMHO.



Close up of the join helping the top sides and chines to "blend".





Should be bit more sanding in the morning.

I bought the 200grm (6oz) cloth today and resin. Will drape nicely.

[flyinwall]

what length and beam did it turn out to be

[goat]

WIll get back to you on that. You after WL length or overall? I was aiming for a 6'3" beam. The OAL was pretty much governed by the shape of the stem to a degree.

Here is a video clip. Its hard to get the lines with pics...

[goat]

Had to stop play this morn.

Mental note to self "do not run your thumb along the edge of the putty knife to clean excess epoxy off (especially after you have been using the belt sander to clean it!)".



Wont be doing that again in a hurry.

[Breakaway]

Ouch--they do work well when sharpened though!

kevin

[goat]

It certainly added "blood" to the "sweat and tears" part of the build.

what length and beam did it turn out to be

Measured roughly this morning, 16ft and around 6'3" beam, will have to check the beam once she is right side up.

[goat]

Finsished off today with some sanding and tidied up the transom, cut the profile.



You can just make out a pencil line marking the sheer line and curve. Will cut that after I have glassed it. Transom will be overhung (as it were). This will alow for a 4" long board extending past the transom that you can put your foot on to get into the back, plus somewhere to mount the transducer. I will cut out a bit in the very center so the outboard can sit properly. Will also give me 4" extra length in the waterline and actually give less drag.

[goat]

Fitted a cap on the stem in the last couple of days and faired things off around there. Looks like a lot but its only 2-3mm thick.

[JTLogan]

What type of fairing compound are you using?

[floatingkiwi]

Goin like hell mate. This thread should be a sticky just on the sheer go at it and get it done attitude, if anything.You'll be fishing shortly.

[goat]

What type of fairing compound are you using?

2 pot epoxy pre mixed stuff. I cant be bothered using that West system or similar. The one where you add powders to resin etc etc.

This is easy and dries hard and is easy to sand. 1 part is white, the other muddish gray color. Like real soft butter when you mix it. Takes a day to go off.

[goat]

Glassed the hull today. 200gm 6oz cloth.



One side down, next.








Used maybe 3.5L resin to get wetted out roughly.

Lap joint is right on the line of the rubbing strips which is nice. Wasnt bad going really.

****

I would like to add, the sadest news I have seen on TV this year and overall for some time. Dan Wheldon was one of my fav Indy car drivers after Scott Dixon.

Rest in peace Dan. Thanks for the memories.

[goat]

Been a bit busy lately and have mainly been filling/sanding so not many exciting pictures. I have shot 29 rosellas howver.

Finished sanding anyway.

Started on the rubbing strips or strakes whatever fancy's you. These are kauri, sacrificial hardwood will be glued to these. They will be 2" wide and 1.5" high.





And the two outside ones added.

[pipefitter]

Nice job and looks like a nice boat.

[goat]

Nice job and looks like a nice boat.

Cheers. Like the look of that boat in your avatar too.

[gstanfield]

Very nice progress. I like what you've got going there!

George

[goat]

Almost finished the hull. Glued the hardwood rubbing strips onto the kauri. I used some kwila decking timber dressed up, my mates just pulled it off a deck somewhere so I stole some, ripped it down and bevelled the edges.

It glues well, I tested a bit before using it. Pays to have a sharp blade cutting this stuff, not as hard as Aussie Jarrah however which is the hardest timber I have ever come accross.







Faired off the front end.







Should be finishing this up after a bit of sanding and flipping her over this week.

[goat]

Yeah, I see your point. Now I had thought about this for about a week. In the end I thought, 1 1/2" it is. Mainly because the kauri was already ripped to the thickness it was and I could be bothered ripping the kwila down cause its just to hard and I was by myself.

My thinking was this; She is flat bottomed. If/when she sits on the bottom and goes dry she needs to be clear of the odd rock etc, even though I am pretty careful. I figure she will sink about 1/2" to an 1" in soft mud/sand that we have in my main harbour here anyway which leaves about 1" on most days. Not a lot really.

If she does sit on a sharp rock and go dry then someone jumps on board I may end up with a repair. We will see.

Its not that hard to plain some off after a season of use but I am picking once she swings around on the anchor a few times in the sand these will lose 1/4" anyway. The edge I can plain back easy if they are too and catch when I trailer it, we will see.

That was how I came up with 1 1/2" tall.