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Thread: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

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    Default Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    What do you tell a guy who is sick, goes into a coma and doesn't have health insurance? Who pays for his coverage? "Are you saying society should just let him die?" Wolf Blitzer asked."Yeah!" several members of the crowd yelled out.
    Paul interjected to offer an explanation for how this was, more-or-less, the root choice of a free society. He added that communities and non-government institutions can fill the void that the public sector is currently playing.

    not the country i want to live in

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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    What do you tell a person that is 80 years old and has a cancer that requires very expensive chemotherapy that may only buy him 2 more years of life? With Obamacare, their utilization management provisions will weigh your age and life expectancy against your potential future "quality of life" and will pay for the treatment only if the cost-benefit analysis works out in your favor. They will decide for you whether your life is worth it. But, they'll pay for a really nice wreath at your funeral.
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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    I'm not worried about the uninsured.
    Ron Paul says the churches will provide coverage of healthcare costs to 50 million Americans.
    And Michelle Bachmann thinks it can all be solved by bartering a chicken.

    Why can't Obama come up with some good ideas like these?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soundbounder View Post
    I'm not worried about the uninsured.
    Ron Paul says the churches will provide coverage of healthcare costs to 50 million Americans.
    And Michelle Bachmann thinks it can all be solved by bartering a chicken.

    Why can't Obama come up with some good ideas like these?
    he's not stupid enough?

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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    Not the country I want to live in, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Concordia 33 View Post
    What do you tell a person that is 80 years old and has a cancer that requires very expensive chemotherapy that may only buy him 2 more years of life? With Obamacare, their utilization management provisions will weigh your age and life expectancy against your potential future "quality of life" and will pay for the treatment only if the cost-benefit analysis works out in your favor. They will decide for you whether your life is worth it. But, they'll pay for a really nice wreath at your funeral.
    I don't think anyone clearly knows what Obamacare will do, but if it falls as far short as you describe I thank the so-called conservatives who fought him at every turn and that includes the blue-dog democrats. What you describe is NOT what Obama set out to provide, nor the Clintons, nor Carter.

    I have a cat dying now and he gets better care than some Americans. Selfish country full of selfish people.

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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    An illegal immigrant was hit by a car and seriously injured.. He obviously did not have insurance. The hospital spend close to 1 million dollars putting him back together the best it could. At the 1 miilion dollar point, the hospital packed him up and shipped him home to some SA country.He is now bed ridden at home with an elderly parent to take care of him. He is not living, he is not dead, he is limbo.*

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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Soundbounder View Post
    I'm not worried about the uninsured.
    Ron Paul says the churches will provide coverage of healthcare costs to 50 million Americans.
    And Michelle Bachmann thinks it can all be solved by bartering a chicken.

    Why can't Obama come up with some good ideas like these?
    The chicken barter thing was not Bachmann. I believe it was the woman who lost the Nevada primary to Sharon Angle.

    I'm curious as to where we draw the line. If someone decided to drive without care insurance, he gets no help if he drives his vehicle into a tree. We are fine with that. If he is seriously injured and has no health insurance, we take care of his medical needs, and we are fine with that. Part of the reason is it's illegal to not have car insurance, but it's not illegal to not have health insurance.

    Until we, as a society, decided we're going to do like the other animals, and allow defective infants to die, until we, as a society, are willing to let the ill go untreated, it is beneficial to all of society to have universal health care. Treating the uninsured is not free.

    If you want a quality government, you must be prepared to pay a fair price. If all you want is tax cuts and spending cuts, the government can't work well.

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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    Quote Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie View Post
    An illegal immigrant was hit by a car and seriously injured.. He obviously did not have insurance. The hospital spend close to 1 million dollars putting him back together the best it could. At the 1 miilion dollar point, the hospital packed him up and shipped him home to some SA country.He is now bed ridden at home with an elderly parent to take care of him. He is not living, he is not dead, he is limbo.*
    If this was a person here legally, how would this story be different?

    If you want a quality government, you must be prepared to pay a fair price. If all you want is tax cuts and spending cuts, the government can't work well.

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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    Actually it was Sharron Angle.
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    How does the same situation work WITHOUT Obamacare? It's not some bureaucrat making the decision, it's an insurance company.... with a profit agenda. I fail to see the difference in moral hazard here. Insurance companies have utilization review... but they are far less likely to consider what two years of additional life might mean to the patient AND the family.

    I would tend to agree that there's a threshold at which additional expensive care becomes unaffordable. We will ALWAYS have that dilemma... regardless of WHO is making the decision. We have that dilemma right now, for people with even excellent private health insurance. Nothing changes with respect to this issue, with Obamacare.
    I would rather the decision be between me and my doctor. If I have insurance and it is covered then they should pay if I want it. If it is not covered it would be my decision if or how to finance. Having worked as a social worker in healthcare for the first 8 years of my career, I never saw someone go without - there were Hill-Burton funds, Drug Company donations, and numerous other funding options that guaranteed that people without resources could pay for their medical care - I used to help link these people up with these resources, so I saw it in action.
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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    John by 2014, residents will have to have health insurance.. It may not be illegal but one without will be fined by the IRS.As far as car insurance, I think except for a few states, it is illegal not to have it.It's ( healthcare mandate) being tested now and will continue being fought in the courts for a while.

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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    If you really truly care then fight to end the Military industrial complex and endless wars. This is where progressives now fall flat on their faces in view of their principles they espouse. Just cutting the defense budget 20% and eliminating the Black budget which is greater would feed the planet and give health care to everyone. Pretty damn simple yet you Libtards attack me for being a tax protester fighting that very system. Do something damkit! I am on your side with caring for everyone just not in support of a nanny state that uses war and death on the other hand of kindness and caring.

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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post

    I'm curious as to where we draw the line. If someone decided to drive without care insurance, he gets no help if he drives his vehicle into a tree. We are fine with that. If he is seriously injured and has no health insurance, we take care of his medical needs, and we are fine with that. Part of the reason is it's illegal to not have car insurance, but it's not illegal to not have health insurance.
    Auto insurance and health insurance are not the same at all and can't be compared.

    Try getting mechanical breakdown insurance on a car older than 10 years or more than 100,000 miles.

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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    "Health Care " is synonymous with "insurance", it has almost nothing to do with health care.
    My juicer is health care .

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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    Some things never change do they? When we were kids, there was always a kid or two who would pull the ladder up behind him, the second he got up in the tree house. Your friends were the ones who gave you a hand or secured the ladder as you were climbing up.


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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylerdurden View Post
    After that basket of lies and half truths can you trust anything this dude has to say?
    it sounded like mostly opinion, you saying he is lying about his opinions?

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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    The chicken barter thing was not Bachmann. I believe it was the woman who lost the Nevada primary to Sharon Angle.
    You're right John, it was Sharon Angle. My mistake!

    I can't imagine why I would have confused her with Michelle Bachmann.

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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    USA is a" Christian" Country?

    Maybe not anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wardd View Post
    it sounded like mostly opinion, you saying he is lying about his opinions?
    Yes. I am saying no one really knows what Norman is about as he is too busy trying to influence for the team. The balance of his posting speaks to that.

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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    Well hopefully norman's debates on obamacare will be a thing of the past in the not too distant future..

    P.S. doesn't the health care plan include a 3.75 % sales tax on the sell of your home ..

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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    how many here would want to rely on the local mosque?

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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    I have never understood the US healthcare sysytem. In the UK and a lot of Europe, you pay taxes and that includes your free health care. So, are you all too tight to pay higher taxes to get healthcare?

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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    I have never understood the US healthcare sysytem. In the UK and a lot of Europe, you pay taxes and that includes your free health care. So, are you all too tight to pay higher taxes to get healthcare?
    but government is bad

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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylerdurden View Post
    After that basket of lies and half truths can you trust anything this dude has to say?
    Next time he mentions that Obama was born in Hawaii; and the Twin Towers were brought down by hijacked planes.........I'm really going to think twice.

    Thanks for the heads up!

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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    Here in the 21st century, the entire idea that health care for the poor and uninsured ought to be relegated to charity is an offense against humanity. We as a nation will not tolerate people dying in the streets, nor will we tolerate a situation like before Social Security, when 50% of the elederly were impoverished. We're the richest nation in the world, and such things are an abomination.
    I would hardly call 1990's America "Dickensian England" and the majority of the programs that I helped people connect up with were federally sponsored programs like those from the Hill-Burton act. Not those reliant on largess of the wealthy. How is federally mandated insurance not "charity" - isn't it a little like medicaid for everyone? Just because it comes out of federal coffers doesn't make it any less like charity.

    So you won't tolerate a person "dying in the street" (no hyperbole there), but you will tolerate a governmentally sponsored agency that tells you or a family member that they will die because the cost benefit analysis does not support further treatment?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Concordia 33 View Post
    I would hardly call 1990's America "Dickensian England" and the majority of the programs that I helped people connect up with were federally sponsored programs like those from the Hill-Burton act. Not those reliant on largess of the wealthy. How is federally mandated insurance not "charity" - isn't it a little like medicaid for everyone? Just because it comes out of federal coffers doesn't make it any less like charity.

    So you won't tolerate a person "dying in the street" (no hyperbole there), but you will tolerate a governmentally sponsored agency that tells you or a family member that they will die because the cost benefit analysis does not support further treatment?



    And Insurance companies don't do this all the time with denials and telling you that they are missing a form, or you didn't fill it out correctly, or that's not an allowable expense. I guess Wendell Potter, former Insurance Company insider, was lying when he told us all the ways that Insurance companies boost the bottom line by denying claims.


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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    I have never understood the US healthcare sysytem. In the UK and a lot of Europe, you pay taxes and that includes your free health care. So, are you all too tight to pay higher taxes to get healthcare?
    Not speaking for myself, but you seem to have grokked what's going on here. Yes, many Americans are unwilling to pay a higher income tax if
    1. the federal or even the state governments administer a health care plan
    2. people who are in the US illegally get to have some of that health care too
    3. people whose skin is not caucasian get to have some of that health care too
    4. people who are currently not working either by chance or choice get to have some of that health care too
    5. health insurance companies can't make a good profit on the provison of the health care
    6. doctors can't make a good profit on the provision of the health care
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    someone explain to me the business model that can insure someone from cradle to grave at a profit

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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Concordia 33 View Post
    Having worked as a social worker in healthcare for the first 8 years of my career, I never saw someone go without - there were Hill-Burton funds, Drug Company donations, and numerous other funding options that guaranteed that people without resources could pay for their medical care - I used to help link these people up with these resources, so I saw it in action.
    That's not health care, that's emergency care. You should know, as a social worker for 8 years, that health care is not something one gets at the last moment.

    Hard to believe a social worker would actually think that only those who sought help for their health situation should get it. What about all the people who didn't come looking for help?

    I'm sure I'd prefer a different social worker, thanks.
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    Quote Originally Posted by wardd View Post
    someone explain to me the business model that can insure someone from cradle to grave at a profit
    Someone explain to me why having a healthy citizenry has to be done at a profit.
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    There are many ways to provide universal healthcare. Not all have to be by a "government takeover" as the extremists like to refer to it and they don't have to exclude freedom of choice either.

    Switzerland and the Netherlands seem to manage alright.

    It seems to me that the key to any successful system are the words non-profit.

    but you will tolerate a governmentally sponsored agency that tells you or a family member that they will die because the cost benefit analysis does not support further treatment?
    Yet you are happy for an insurance company to make that same decision based on your profitability?

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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    I have never understood the US healthcare system. In the UK and a lot of Europe, you pay taxes and that includes your free health care. So, are you all too tight to pay higher taxes to get healthcare?
    No, we are self-centered and terribly afraid the other person will get more than us, so much so that we would rather no one get any and it's every man for himself. I will bet you almost anything that most of the people on this forum who complain about universal health care are uninsured or under-insured because their employer won't commit to it and individual health insurance is too expensive, but they won't come together with other Americans for fear they won't get their share (that translates into "won't get as sick as someone else" and that's just pathetic).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fernir View Post
    There are many ways to provide universal healthcare. Not all have to be by a "government takeover" as the extremists like to refer to it and they don't have to exclude freedom of choice either.

    Switzerland and the Netherlands seem to manage alright.

    It seems to me that the key to any successful system are the words non-profit.



    Yet you are happy for an insurance company to make that same decision based on your profitability?
    like medicare

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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    Quote Originally Posted by elf View Post
    That's not health care, that's emergency care. You should know, as a social worker for 8 years, that health care is not something one gets at the last moment.

    Hard to believe a social worker would actually think that only those who sought help for their health situation should get it. What about all the people who didn't come looking for help?

    I'm sure I'd prefer a different social worker, thanks.
    And I would never want you for a doctor (thank god you are not) if you think that I am referring to "emergency care". I hope you are a better photographer than you are a health policy analyst. I am relived that you would not want me for your social worker as my ethical code would not allow me to refuse you care.
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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Fernir View Post



    Yet you are happy for an insurance company to make that same decision based on your profitability?
    And a government agency that makes these decisions and uses a cost benefit analysis much like a "for profit" business. The difference being that I do not trust a government employee with this level decision making (it should be between me and my doctor) and don't want to have to fly to a different country for treatment if I disagree with their determination.
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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Concordia 33 View Post
    I would hardly call 1990's America "Dickensian England" and the majority of the programs that I helped people connect up with were federally sponsored programs like those from the Hill-Burton act. Not those reliant on largess of the wealthy. How is federally mandated insurance not "charity" - isn't it a little like medicaid for everyone? Just because it comes out of federal coffers doesn't make it any less like charity.

    So you won't tolerate a person "dying in the street" (no hyperbole there), but you will tolerate a governmentally sponsored agency that tells you or a family member that they will die because the cost benefit analysis does not support further treatment?
    Hey, this is silly. Under any national health insurance system, a person is free to go beyond the coverage and pay the tab (if they can) for further treatment. If they can't, they don't get further treatment. That's the way it is now, except that there's no initial coverage for uninsured people. As now, charities are free to underwrite extra care if they chose. Of course, they don't.

    I sit on a foundation that until recently gave grants to small (501)(c)(3) charities, such as food pantries, legal aid, elder services, etc. I was impressed that most of them were run by religious outfits, with very impressive volunteer support. Very few were run by secular humanists, although the Unitarians did run a homeless shelter. HOWEVER, I didn't find any of these religious charities who opposed national health care. To a man (or woman) they were greatly oppressed by the helplessness of their clients, and their own lack of funds to help the large number of people that were obliged to abandon. They operated their charities not because they liked it but because they were horrified at the condition of their clients and stepped in to help. They certainly didn't think that those who they couldn't afford to help should go hang, or should wait around for another charity to snap them up (as, in fact, they did).

    If you really think of government as a big charitable foundation ("what's the difference" you ask) and you don't object to charities, then what's the objection to national health care? Isn't it that "underserving" people might benefit? Or is there something else?
    What's his best time in the calf scramble?

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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    Quote Originally Posted by PhaseLockedLoop View Post
    Hey, this is silly. Under any national health insurance system, a person is free to go beyond the coverage and pay the tab (if they can) for further treatment. If they can't, they don't get further treatment. That's the way it is now, except that there's no initial coverage for uninsured people. As now, charities are free to underwrite extra care if they chose. Of course, they don't.

    I sit on a foundation that until recently gave grants to small (501)(c)(3) charities, such as food pantries, legal aid, elder services, etc. I was impressed that most of them were run by religious outfits, with very impressive volunteer support. Very few were run by secular humanists, although the Unitarians did run a homeless shelter. HOWEVER, I didn't find any of these religious charities who opposed national health care. To a man (or woman) they were greatly oppressed by the helplessness of their clients, and their own lack of funds to help the large number of people that were obliged to abandon. They operated their charities not because they liked it but because they were horrified at the condition of their clients and stepped in to help. They certainly didn't think that those who they couldn't afford to help should go hang, or should wait around for another charity to snap them up (as, in fact, they did).

    If you really think of government as a big charitable foundation ("what's the difference" you ask) and you don't object to charities, then what's the objection to national health care? Isn't it that "underserving" people might benefit? Or is there something else?
    And what do you think will happen to the availability of healthcare providers once there is enhanced federal regulation? Have you seen the anticipated waits for routine dental care or non-emergent care in some of the countries that have more strongly regulated healthcare.

    I was once a believer in socialized medicine. I don’t want to overstate my case: growing up in Canada, I didn’t spend much time contemplating the nuances of health economics. I wanted to get into medical school—my mind brimmed with statistics on MCAT scores and admissions rates, not health spending. But as a Canadian, I had soaked up three things from my environment: a love of ice hockey; an ability to convert Celsius into Fahrenheit in my head; and the belief that government-run health care was truly compassionate. What I knew about American health care was unappealing: high expenses and lots of uninsured people. When HillaryCare shook Washington, I remember thinking that the Clintonistas were right.
    My health-care prejudices crumbled not in the classroom but on the way to one. On a subzero Winnipeg morning in 1997, I cut across the hospital emergency room to shave a few minutes off my frigid commute. Swinging open the door, I stepped into a nightmare: the ER overflowed with elderly people on stretchers, waiting for admission. Some, it turned out, had waited five days. The air stank with sweat and urine. Right then, I began to reconsider everything that I thought I knew about Canadian health care. I soon discovered that the problems went well beyond overcrowded ERs. Patients had to wait for practically any diagnostic test or procedure, such as the man with persistent pain from a hernia operation whom we referred to a pain clinic—with a three-year wait list; or the woman needing a sleep study to diagnose what seemed like sleep apnea, who faced a two-year delay; or the woman with breast cancer who needed to wait four months for radiation therapy, when the standard of care was four weeks.
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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Concordia 33 View Post
    And a government agency that makes these decisions and uses a cost benefit analysis much like a "for profit" business. The difference being that I do not trust a government employee with this level decision making (it should be between me and my doctor) and don't want to have to fly to a different country for treatment if I disagree with their determination.
    a gov panel like that even if it ever started wouldn't last long, the voters wouldn't tolerate it

    when is the last time your insurance carrier took your vote into consideration?

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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    If some form of Universal, single payer, government sponsored healthcare for all is so horrible, how come forumites from countries that have Universal care never seem to chime in warning us (the US) away from it? Strange, yes? No?
    Last edited by Kevin T; 09-13-2011 at 11:09 AM. Reason: typing at the same time as post 42


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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Concordia 33 View Post
    And a government agency that makes these decisions and uses a cost benefit analysis much like a "for profit" business. The difference being that I do not trust a government employee with this level decision making (it should be between me and my doctor) and don't want to have to fly to a different country for treatment if I disagree with their determination.
    The only time that you make a decision between you and your doctor is when you are paying for the treatment entirely out of pocket.

    In reality there is always a third party, and then it all it comes down to is who you trust the most. A government commie, socialist or an evil, profit hungry capitalist bastid?

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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Concordia 33 View Post
    And a government agency that makes these decisions and uses a cost benefit analysis much like a "for profit" business. The difference being that I do not trust a government employee with this level decision making (it should be between me and my doctor) and don't want to have to fly to a different country for treatment if I disagree with their determination.
    With the system you have it can never be just between you and your doctor, unless your doctor is also your insurer. Perhaps doctor's should run insurance schemes on a not-for-profit basis. You can always trust a doctor, right?
    Somewhere between Murder and Suicide, there is a place called Merseyside.

  42. #42
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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    why is it the accepted norm that the employer provides health insurance?

    shouldn't those on the right demand to pay their own instead of mooching off someone else?

    seems the argument isn't about someone else paying so much as it is about who that someone else is, it's a silly argument

  43. #43
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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    Quote Originally Posted by isla View Post
    With the system you have it can never be just between you and your doctor, unless your doctor is also your insurer. Perhaps doctor's should run insurance schemes on a not-for-profit basis. You can always trust a doctor, right?
    I actually have a very good doctor that I literally would trust with my life.
    * _______________________________________ )

  44. #44
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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    One can see isla's ironymeter pegged out. Here we have physician owned insurers in the form of many HMO's. It allows the physician to sympathize with the patient and blame denial of coverage on some bean counter . . . who is protecting the physician's interest.

    In the '60s under a plan from the Nixon administration promoting a perversion of HMO's we had an explosion of "medicaid mills" that made tons of money denying care to elderly patients. It still happens in many ways today, as anyone who has dealt with endless delays getting a spleen biopsy (to take a recent family example) will know. All forms of health care are ultimately rationed by the available resourses. Our problem is that we spend more for less because such an enormous portion of our healthcare dollars is wasted on enriching insurers.

  45. #45
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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post

    I've been here in the bilge a long time, and I've NEVER heard a single Canadian, ........ with universal health care disparage their own systems.. everyone acknowleges that they aren't perfect, but they're a pantload better than the US system.
    Until now. And we all know that the bilge denizens are all the ultimate arbiters of what constitutes a good healthcare system vs a Canadian Doctor in residency who started out as a strong supporter of the Canadian Medical system!
    * _______________________________________ )

  46. #46
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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Concordia 33 View Post
    Until now. And we all know that the bilge denizens are all the ultimate arbiters of what constitutes a good healthcare system vs a Canadian Doctor in residency who started out as a strong supporter of the Canadian Medical system!
    So you managed find one disillusioned Canadian doctor. Here, I've got 18,000 American doctors.

  47. #47
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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Concordia 33 View Post
    I actually have a very good doctor that I literally would trust with my life.
    Swell. Does he work for nothing, or does he get paid by your insurance? And if you couldn't afford insurance (say, lost your job, as so many have) do you think he, and the hospital with which he's associated, would give you care without payment? This isn't about who's a "good doctor," it's about who pays the doctors, and hospitals, and so forth.
    What's his best time in the calf scramble?

  48. #48
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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    Government health care: Cheney has a fake heart, even with his health problems. (I think-might have bought a Chinese prisoners by now) If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for the citizens of the USA. Health Care for U.S. Congress Politicians Receive the Country’s Best Care - at Taxpayers' Expense,
    While over 46 million Americans remain uninsured and millions more underinsured, members of Congress receive health-related services that many in the U.S. will never see.
    Congress' own healthcare benefits: membership has its privileges
    Lawmakers can choose among several plans and get special treatment at federal medical facilities. In 2008, taxpayers spent about $15 billion to insure 8.5 million federal workers and their dependents.
    August 02, 2009|Mark Z. Barabak and Faye Fiore

    Too much, too fast, too expensive. Those are some of the objections lawmakers have voiced against the healthcare overhaul Democrats are attempting on Capitol Hill.

    But many Americans think Congress is out of touch. How, they wonder, can lawmakers empathize with the underinsured or those lacking insurance when they receive a benefits package -- heavily subsidized by taxpayers -- that most of us can only envy?
    For the average worker, the Federal Employees Health Benefits Plan would probably look quite attractive," said Pete Sepp, a spokesman for the National Taxpayers Union, a pinch-penny advocacy group.

  49. #49
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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    Skipper..when Dodd was in office and gong through Prostate cancer/issues. He made a comment on the radio about how good his care was and how glad he had it as a member of the Senate..He then snickered.I'm glad he did not run again. To make a comment like that was disgusting.

  50. #50
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    Default Re: Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die

    Quote Originally Posted by PhaseLockedLoop View Post
    This isn't about who's a "good doctor," it's about who pays the doctors, and hospitals, and so forth.
    You take me out of context. I assume that was not deliberate on your part.

    I was responding to this statement by Isla a few posts back:

    You can always trust a doctor, right?
    * _______________________________________ )

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