Could this be Raw Faith II?

[Larks]

Where again is the boat?

I'm sure the builder would at least be pleased that someone is calling it a boat........

[Woxbox]

Been there so long it can now be seen on Google Earth.
37°58'26.38"N
122°28'57.67"W

[Yeadon]

Whoa. Even on land he's gotten too close to the ocean with that thing.

[orbb]

Been there so long it can now be seen on Google Earth.
37°58'26.38"N
122°28'57.67"W

Interesting. On street view it is not there.

Maybe it's like the inflatable tanks that the Allies positioned in England prior to D-Day to fool the Germans into thinking that the invasion was launching at a different spot.

[Boston]

I couldn't find an update, but a local TV station did a story. Here's the video:

http://www.cbs19.tv/story/15461245/w...clipId=6251597

having seen the picts, no way is the coast guard going to approve it for passengers or passage. Its typical framing lumber, #2 from what I saw. Deck screws, not approved for framing even on land. $30k done ? no way. Oh and I didn't see any PL but given the looks of things, I'd have to agree its what he's most likely using. That poxy stuff is spensive ;-)

I wonder if the Coast Guard has any jurisdiction to inspect without request before it gets to much farther. Might save this guy a lot of time and one grim reality.

[westsail42]

I'm sure the builder would at least be pleased that someone is calling it a boat........

Nah, he doesn't care what anyone else says or thinks.

He knows himself a pro at building his own bike, automobile and motorcycle, therefore...

He knows himself to be a pro at boatbuilding.

Hard to argue with that logic, eh?

[TR]

no way is the coast guard going to approve it for passengers or passage.

Careful what you wish for....a building code for home made pleasure craft....see the EC for how wonderful that turns out......

I wonder if the Coast Guard has any jurisdiction to inspect without request before it gets to much farther. Might save this guy a lot of time and one grim reality.

What happened to personal responsibility? Land of the free? Not so much?

A couple of years back a guy named David Van set out from San Francisco to sail around the world (non-stop I think) in a self-designed and built aluminum trimaran. The USCG stopped him inside the bay(I believe because some helpful individual called them), inspected, and he carried on, shortly she started to break up and he found a harbour, made some repairs and returned home. I well remember (I gather the USCG does too!) the huge hue and cry when the Polynesian voyaging canoe Hokule'a was stopped from heading offshore back in the 1970's. A "Manifestly unsafe voyage" I think they called it.......She's sailed thousands of offshore miles since. There is no way the USCG could inspect and approve every home made (non-production) boat in the US.........For most there are no plans, or the boat is not built according to the plans.....how many NA's do you want them to hire to approve all these projects?

[Peerie Maa]

I don't think it is Raw Faith. Raw Faith flexed in a seaway until it opened some seams and slowly foundered.

I suspect that that structure will flex a lot when it gets into cross seas, and may well fall apart quite catastrophically.

Not the same thing at all.

[Boston]

Here's the (huge) photo from the article linked above:

Anyone else notice a sag in the deck ?

[Yeadon]

So, Raw Faith was a success when compared with this fellow? I can see that.

[Peerie Maa]

So, Raw Faith was a success when compared with this fellow? I can see that.

Went down slowly enough to give time for rescue. That was a small plus. On this, I am not so optimistic.

[ILikeRust]

Anyone else notice a sag in the deck ?

Could be distortion from a slightly wide-angle lens. I see what you mean, but hard to say whether it's genuine or an optical delusion.

[Willin']

Assuming there will be twin helm stations opposite each other, with such visibility, I foresee plenty of running back and forth from station to station when maneuvering in tight quarters... never a good idea.

[Mad Scientist]

It shows up on marinetraffic.com in Satellite view, but not at the 45 degree setting.

I see that the yacht club/marina has given it its own plot of land - no doubt to spare the real boats the embarrassment of being seen too close to it.

Tom

[Woxbox]

Actually, if she goes to sea and breaks up, all the pieces will float. Lots of stuff to grab onto, and a huge debris field for the spotters. I'd take foundering aboard this thing over Raw Faith any day of the week.

[Boston]

well Hi Tad, Hows that project boat going ?

and hey, good to hear from you.

[Rich Jones]

My take on this is that the guy never intends to leave the harbor. His intention all along has been to use it as a floating home. Eventually, he'll be told by harbor authorities that floating homes aren't allowed. To which he'll respond that it's a real ship that he's in the process of "fitting out" for sea. Of course, this process will take 10-20 years according to him.

It's the only possible explanation I can come up with. I mean, NOBODY, can be stupid enough to think that thing will make it past the breakwater without floundering.

[ILikeRust]

I mean, NOBODY, can be stupid enough to think that thing will make it past the breakwater with floundering.

So you're unfamiliar with the human race, then.

[Boston]

lets just hope no one gets hurt.

Deal is its a valuable experience for those of us planing our own builds to be able to observe both how to, and not to, build a retirement yacht.

The frightening thing is I see a lot of myself in this, I'm pretty good at building stuff. Homes, cars, but I've never tried a boat, least not in the last 40 years or so. Lets just hope I don't screw it up as badly as this guy has. Kinda sends a shiver down my spine to even think of it.

[Thad Van Gilder]

Oh, well, he studied the construction of 10,000 boats..... he must be an expert!!!!!!

[Vince Brennan]

Bump.

[GaryK]

Chop it up, keep half of one hull, turn it into a 50' sharpie, Bolger style.
Anything's better than that thing.

[outofthenorm]

.. when maneuvering in tight quarters...

Hahahahahahahhahahhahhahahhahhahhahahahah. Gosh that's hilarious! Maneuvering!

[Uncle Duke]

Masts being rigged and installed, photo taken yesterday. Will try to get more pics.

For some reason my photo will not upload. Says exceeds my wuota by 70kb? Not sure what I'm doing wrong

You need to host them on some free photo sharing site, like photobucket or some such. Then add there here with the "image" tool, select "From URL", paste in the URL of the picture itself (should end in "jpg" or something like that) and (IMPORTANT!) UN-select the checkbox for "Retrieve remote file and reference locally".

Looking forward to them!

[donald branscom]

I particularly liked this quote...

"A craft flexes a great deal when it is moved from land to the water; Lane hopes none of the craft’s 44 salon windows pop out."

I wonder if that's similar to the flexing that takes place amid towering seas and high winds?

I'm probably overthinking the issue, though.

Yes ...Very true, boats often experience earthquake forces in the water on a regular basis.
And that is just for starters.
Out board engines will be on not much use in the ocean except in calm water.
I very seldom see the ocean calm.

To test this boat if you could put it in a giant washing machine would be very revealing.

[donald branscom]

You need to host them on some free photo sharing site, like photobucket or some such. Then add there here with the "image" tool, select "From URL", paste in the URL of the picture itself (should end in "jpg" or something like that) and (IMPORTANT!) UN-select the checkbox for "Retrieve remote file and reference locally".

Looking forward to them!

When you put any photo on the internet you must prepare that digital file FIRST.
You want the file size to be about 40K.
The easiest way to do that is if if you have Photoshop program. The real one.
Just use File Save for WEB feature.
It makes the files size right for internet use.

Also the image should only be 640x480 pixels so that all computer users can view the photo.

Step 1. Image size.
Step 2. File Save for Web.

[ILikeRust]

When you put any photo on the internet you must prepare that digital file FIRST.
You want the file size to be about 40K.
The easiest way to do that is if if you have Photoshop program. The real one.

Erm... except full-blown Photoshop costs several hundred dollars, and I wouldn't characterize it as the "easiest" way to resize a photo. There are plenty of free, very simple photo editors out there that you can either download from the web for free, or use on the web, that are much easier to learn than Photoshop - and are free.

I use Photobucket to host my pics, and it includes photo editing features, including cropping, adjusting contrast and brightness, and resizing, among others. And it's free and easy.

Once your pic is on Photobucket or whatever is your photo hosting site of choice, you can post it here by linking to it using the picture icon and inserting the picture's URL.

[donald branscom]

Erm... except full-blown Photoshop costs several hundred dollars, and I wouldn't characterize it as the "easiest" way to resize a photo. There are plenty of free, very simple photo editors out there that you can either download from the web for free, or use on the web, that are much easier to learn than Photoshop - and are free.

I use Photobucket to host my pics, and it includes photo editing features, including cropping, adjusting contrast and brightness, and resizing, among others. And it's free and easy.

Once your pic is on Photobucket or whatever is your photo hosting site of choice, you can post it here by linking to it using the picture icon and inserting the picture's URL.

Yes... I understand.
Too bad BIll Gates won't give you IBM users a simple photo edit program for the internet.

[Jeff R]

Wow . . . this thread has been a fun read. I'm pretty familiar with the original Raw Faith - used to sail and row around her pretty regularly. She was almost picturesque from a distance. Reminded me of the old photos of Rockland harbor, with coal and lime barges moored out there. Up close . . . again, wow. Lots of hog set in during her sadly curtailed life. It's like she was aging in fast motion.

I'm really glad, BTW, that the "eighty foot rogue sea" that dismasted her (on her earlier attempt to head south) dissipated before reaching shore. I live only fifty feet above sea level, you see, and have been living in dread of such waves ever since McKay first described his encounter with that one.

With respect to this big catamaran: what sort of odds will any of you give me that he actually completes a passage in her? 'Cause I'll put money on him surviving at least one trip (with sufficiently long odds, of course). I'm a firm believer by now that Father Neptune has a sense of humor, and just might give this guy a break - especially if that means putting all of the experts in their place.

But I'm not betting on him finishing two trips, though. No sense in wasting money.

[orbb]

I think it is more likely that it suffers some sort of structural failure at or shortly after launch. I think it will be subjected to some stresses that will test it pretty quickly.

[orbb]

Masts being rigged and installed, photo taken yesterday. Will try to get more pics.

For some reason my photo will not upload. Says exceeds my wuota by 70kb? Not sure what I'm doing wrong

If you want to email them, I can post them from my photobucket site. I will pm you my email address.

[orbb]

Here are Loch Lomond Boater's photos:

[Thad Van Gilder]

yeah.... that's plenty of sail area....

[P.L.Lenihan]

That's just his mizzen mast Thad. Just wait till he gets the mainmast up! That puppy's going to really fly!!



Cheers!


Peter

[headonz]

Just when you think it cant get any worse ..............

[Larks]

It certainly looks like it's positioned as a mizzen and there's another mast laying on the ground in the foreground......as for the chainplate's?????? If that aft most one is any indication........

[Boston]

He must think that the gusset plates will work as chainplates or something, cause I don't see any chainplates, looks like just a bolt or something. Oh well, I just hope no one gets hurt.

So whats the deal, is there a whole lineage of Raw Faith type blunders out there and does anyone have a compilation of them ?

[ILikeRust]

[S/V Laura Ellen]

First time that mizzen sail is hoisted that back awning structure will peel up like the lid of a sardine can.

[Gerarddm]

O dear O dear. Perhaps when trundling to launch the windows will pop and like Absolute 80 he will get the chance to "fix" it, maybe with Simpson tie plates or something. Jeesh.

[Paul G.]

I feel really sorry for this man, clearly he is capable and hardworking and he has a dream. I also think he is genuine but so misguided that he's totally lost. To be fair this "creation" would be an excellent mobile home up a river where nary a wave is seen and the banks are only hundreds of metres not miles away. If he ever gets out of sight of land in the vast wide and unforgiving sea its only chance that he and his hapless crew will survive. I take no pleasure in his folly.

[Gerarddm]

Hardworking and has a dream. OK.

Capable? Not so much, given the evidence.

[Mike Vogdes]

I feel really sorry for this man, clearly he is capable and hardworking and he has a dream. I also think he is genuine but so misguided that he's totally lost. To be fair this "creation" would be an excellent mobile home up a river where nary a wave is seen and the banks are only hundreds of metres not miles away. If he ever gets out of sight of land in the vast wide and unforgiving sea its only chance that he and his hapless crew will survive. I take no pleasure in his folly.

I agree Paul, personally I don't believe that structure will survive the launch, I can't get my head around how it will be transported to the waters edge and actually launched without breaking apart. It's a shame he didn't put all this money and effort into a worthy project boat, he would probably be off sailing now and living his dream. This sort of failure will no doubt hurt this man in all sorts of ways, I feel for him too.

[Boston]

All he had to do was pick a real plan and get a NA to go over any changes. I seem to remember something about him having some construction experience. If its anything like mine you develop a distrust of architects, and eventually just learn to do it yourself. Issue is this isn't a house, where the structure is pretty straight forward. A boats a whole new animal in building, some people, just can't see it, I guess, but you just can't slap a boat together and then go risk life and limb on the open ocean.

He could have bought plans and hired an NA for what he spent on paint. I suspect the coast guard has an eye on this one.

[TR]

but you just can't slap a boat together and then go risk life and limb on the open ocean.

Why not? Honestly B., sometimes you write the oddest stuff.

The right to slap a boat together and go to sea is one of the few real freedoms left(I hope it's still left). To create something that Sterling Hayden might say, "Afraid you might die? You might live!" Slapping a boat together and heading off is what Josh Slocum did, and inspired thousands to follow. 95% of the boats that set to sea today, millions of people, are in boats slapped together of found materials on an open beach, no liferafts, no epirb, no satphone, and no naval artichokes......

Structural issues are one thing, but writing "you can't do that" is completely another issue. Just around the corner from where this boat is being built is one of the greatest inland water cruising areas of the world, the Sacramento Delta. I hope this guy makes it and gets lost in there for ever........

[Boston]

While I'd be the last to deny any freedoms of expression to the next guy, most next guys are smart enough to do something like this with a sufficient amount of help to get it done right. I think Ole Joshua just looked up from Davie Jones hold and shed a tear.

If I remember he was a very experienced captain with a really sound boat.

My ship was also in better condition than when she sailed from Boston on her long voyage. She was still as sound as a nut, and as tight as the best ship afloat. She did not leak a drop - not one drop!

In any case maybe it just hits a bit to close to home, but I'd still have to wonder if someones not likely to get seriously injured if something like that mast comes down in a hurry, or it breaks up off shore somewhere. The engineering is exactly what the problem is. The idea that he's chasing a dream or has the freedom to do so was never in question.

Anyway Tad always good to hear from you
hope all is well
Cheers
B

[davebrown]

SLocum was experienced enough that when he sank a boat off of South America, he was able to salvage a very few rudimentary tools (a rasp, a drill, and a saw), pull the iron and metal parts off of the wreck, and build another one. That is vastly different than what the subject of all this funning is doing. He has either come up with a brilliant loophole to the Bay Area building restrictions, or he is on another planet. His project shows some skill at housebuilding. I predict he will pay someone a handsome sum to tow him upriver. Hope it will be on the back of a Semi, in two or three large, box-shaped chunks. At Hop Kiln Winery, in Sonoma COunty, stands a two-story Italianette house which was chainsawed into boxes and then moved across the Russion River on flatbed trucks, then bolted and nailed back together. I remember reading the movers were attacked by swarms of bees who had taken up residence in the walls of the building. Flatbed trucks would be a good solution for this train wreck.

[TR]

I'd be the last to deny any freedoms of expression to the next guy,

With references to the CG stopping him it just seems like you do want to deny this fellow's freedom. Pretty soon nobody can leave the harbour without proof of competence....etc....

Neil Young's 100' schooner was dismasted the other night, no one was badly hurt(bloody lucky thing), presumably there was an experienced and able crew in charge. Should the CG have denied them the right to go to sea? Masts fall down all the time, it's part of the risk inherit in sailing. Yes, you could get hurt, but it's (a lot) more likely you'll get hit by a car crossing the street.

The engineering is the same thing. If every sailing vessel must exhibit a "proper" engineers approval, no one can build a boat in their backyard (because the engineers and their insurance companies won't approve it). And another freedom is gone.

[Boston]

Well the coasties held up Rawfaith until he met a few minimum requirements and look what happened to that one. I'd think there would be at least some inspection this guys got to undergo.

I don't consider the inspection process on anything I build on land to be a loss of freedom, just a process by which the customer is protected from shoddy work. I'd think something similar existed for yachts and commercial vessels.

The discussion might bend towards insurance at some point. Hows he ever going to pull into a developed harbor without it, most require it don't they ? and if so then how can they insure an uninspected boat ? Seems like there should be some disinterested third party involved somewhere in the process.

[TR]

Insurance of any vessel will be based on a surveyors report. Sometimes this is true of new production vessels, sometimes not.