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Thread: Okay with a change of location comes a change of tack

  1. #1
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    Alright Ive moved out to Kalgoorlie which means that Im 400 klicks from any serious waters... Im thinking of fishin boats around 20 - 30ft that can be towed... plan is to take my week off and go fishin in the Great Australian Bight so Im looking for designs that would be ideal

    Ocean capable
    Towable behind 4x4
    live aboard for up to a week
    able to have outriggers for nets and rods
    small outboard or inboard power
    small hoist
    Wooden build either ply on frame or solid timber {not into welding hate it infact}

    Any suggestions? ideas? thoughts? all welcome

  2. #2
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    howzabout a norwalk Island Sharpie........

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    They have the sharpie flat bum dont they Chuck? as well I dont know they would be able to handle the Bights waters... will look into them a bit more than I have I sorta figured they were designed more toward sheltered waters

    Ive been giving this some thought and keep going back to those old fishing boats from the 20s and so along the lines of the Oyster boats but with more draft for the sea and catch

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    Google Tolman skiff, and you will find an able design that handles the Alaskan waters and might handle where you want to go.

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    Hey there Stilleto... Im sorta thinkin along the lines of Devlins Godzilla 22' and with a beam of 8' 1" it would trail well... tad small I guess but nice... I am also ponderin the Noyo Trawler its actually the way Im considerin most a workin boat with accomadations for a few days away nothin flash but capable and has a halfway decent hold for the fish

    Ive seen the Tolman, Simmons and Pointer designs have the plans for 2 of them along with one of Preditor all fine if your plannin on comin back at the end of the day... plan is to go offshore and stay there for a few days then come back.

    Not interested in somethin flash or launch like rather a working boat

  6. #6
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    How about a 22 or 26 foot Calkins Bartender....motor might be a tad bigger than wanted , but will sit on a trailer and handle the rough stuff.

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    Now Ive heard a mess of yarns about this bartender anyone have some pics? website?

  8. #8
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    How about a Carney 22? The apprentices at the Apprenticeshop in Rockland build them:





    Basics
    LOA: 21' 11"
    Beam: 7' 8"
    Draft: 2' 6"
    Displacement: approx. 4,500lbs.

    Rigs/Systems/Rowing
    Engine: 75 hp, 4-cylinder Yammer Diesel
    Propeller: Single screw, 17" x 17" 4 blade
    Drive System : Standard
    Steering System: Morse Cable
    Fuel: 50 gals.
    Water: 5 - 10 gals.

    Performance
    Intended Capacity: 6 day, 2 cruising
    Cruising Speed : 12 kts.
    Top Speed : 16 kts.
    Trailerable: With difficulty

    Description
    Hull Type : Round-bottom, built-down keel
    Construction: Carvel-planked cedar of steam-bent white oak frame, white oak back-bone, plywood Dynel decks

    Accomodations
    Cabin Headroom: Sitting
    Pilot Headroom: 6' 3"
    Bunks: V-berth
    Head: Portable
    Galley: None

  9. #9
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    Im gonna have to go back to Devlin I think I saw his site had something similar

    Thanks fellas keep em comin!

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    Howdy from western Canada, Shane.
    Glen-L's Double Eagle might be a bit easier to build, about the same size as Godzilla and can be extended another couple feet if you like.

    CHARACTERISTICS
    Length overall 23'-0"
    Length waterline 20'-8"
    Beam 7'-11"
    Draft (inboard version) 2'-5"
    Draft (outboard & I/O version) 1'-6"
    Displacement 4200 lbs.
    Hull weight (approx.) 1200 lbs.
    Hull depth 4'-11"
    Freeboard forward 3'-8"
    Freeboard aft 2'-3"
    Height overall 9'-2"
    Headroom (cabin-approx.) 4'-9"
    Headroom (shelter top-approx.) 6'-3"
    Cockpit size 13'-0" x 7'-0"
    Cockpit depth 29" to 33"
    Fuel capacity (inboard) Alum. 76 gals., Plywood 64 gals.
    Fuel capacity (I/O) Alum. 82 gals., Plywood 68 gals.
    Fuel capacity (outboard) Alum. 88 gals., Plywood 66 gals.
    Hull type: Hard chine, vee bottom with skeg, developed for sheet plywood or aluminum.
    Power: Single inboard engine to 875 lbs., or single I/O engine from 400 to 600 lbs., or long shaft outboard (single or twin) from 200 to 325 lbs.
    Can the hull be extended or shortened? Yes. Up to 10% by re-spacing the frames from the aft end of the stem to the transom a proportional amount. We do not recommend increasing the beam.
    Trailer: Designed for use with Glen-L Series 3800 boat trailer plans.

  11. #11
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    Bateau has this

    Specifications:

    LOA: 22' 10" 6,96 m
    Max. Beam: 8' 2 " 2,49 m
    Hull Draft at DWL: 8" 203 mm
    Hull weight: 1,500 lbs. 680 kg
    Displacement: 2,500 lbs. 1140 liters
    PPI at DWL: 560 lbs. 255 kg
    Recommended HP 50-100 35-75 Kw
    Material: Stitch & Glue composite

    The DE23 is the long cabin version of our NV23. She combines traditional styling with an efficient, easy to build planing hull. She is not a true lobster boat of the double wedge type or a pure fast planing hull. The hull type is similar to what is now frequently called a picnic boat; a seaworthy planing boat but the topsides are more in the Down East cruising boat style. We kept the deep forefoot of the modern fast lobster boat hull but the underbody is a true monohedron. This means that the transition to planing speeds will be smooth without any excessive change of trim and without the wasteful suction of warped bottoms running at an S/L higher than 2.
    (S/L ratio is speed in knots divided by square root of WL in feet. Displacement boats are the ones with an S/L<1.3, planing boats have S/L>2)
    The Down East 23 will perform well at displacement speeds in bad weather and run efficiently at moderate planing speeds with relatively small engines.

  12. #12
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    Devlin's Surf Scooter


    CHARACTERISTICS
    Length overall 22'0"
    Length waterline 20'3"
    Beam 7'8"
    Draft 1'11"
    Displacement 2200 lbs.
    Fuel capacity 26 gals.
    Water capacity 50 gals.
    Headroom. 6'4"
    Sleeping capacity 2

  13. #13
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    Hakinson's Fred Murphy is a 26 footer if you like the tug boat look

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    I second (or third) the Bartender suggestion. WB # 163, Shane!




    Later,

    Phil

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    I'm still havin' a little trouble thinking of Shane as a stinkpotter. How about a traditional sailing fishing boat, like a catboat or friendship sloop? With a small deisel maybe?

    Steven

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    Arch Davis' Jiffy V-22 is a handsome plywood on sawn frame workboat:



    The builder of this'n extended the wheelhouse:

  18. #18
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    Bartender, aye! The stern looks perfect!

    Somebody beat me to the doule-ender. I must be dozing.

    Seriously, Shane, Bartenders have been getting folks through rough water and back home safely for ages!

    Wayne
    In the Swamp.

  19. #19
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    Woodenboat Forum at its best! Thanks one an all!

    Steven Its taken some time to consider what to build hasnt it... I seriously gave thought to a couta boat but couldnt for the life of me find any plans! Really that would have been ideal... Anyways I tried to go the luggar way but again plans were for full size (40+ft} and I really am plannin on some serious fishin in the bight some time this century the only other way would be St Valery but she not be a fisher boat my friend glorious though she be she could not I fear take me out there stay there and carry back some serious fish... well I havent contacted Bolger so Im only assumin based on what Ive read and seen of her

    So stinker I go... but if I can keep the motor down to a phut phut type thing member here I am not definantly NOT a powah lover but rather steady steady is my way Im also in no rush to get out there and get back take my time is my way same with fishin ... I also may be able to keep a steadyin sail up and well get the best sorta of both worlds???

    Keep the thoughts comin... so far

    1) Noyo Trawler
    2) Devlins Godzilla
    3) GlenLs Double Eagle
    4) Davis Jiffy V22

    Dont ask me why I am so attached to that Noyo Trawler its sorta like a Wharram asthetically appealing to my eye... probably impractical illogical and unproven but well Im still lookin

  20. #20
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    Hi Shane........

    I have a set of plans for a couta boat. It's been quite a while since I looked at them but basicly I believe there are a couple lines drawings and a table of offsets. I believe the name of the boat is "Hero".
    I was in Australia for my brothers wedding in Melbourne back in 1988, and afterwards we made our way down to Geelong where his wifes family had a place.....Anyway to make a long story short, her father, a freighter captain, knew quite a few people out at the pilot station at "The Heads", which in turn led me to a Mr. Beazley who was still employed at the time building pilot boats as well as Couta Boat in his back yard. We hit it off well enough that he gave me this set of plans I'm talking about. There's also a back issue of WOODENBOAT that has a great article on Mr. Beazley and these great Australian boats. There's also a very good web site. If you thought you'd be interested I could make copies and send them to you.

    Bill

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    I believe three very important parameters have been omitted from the specification thus far:

    A) Desired and maximum draft;

    B) Desired and minimum speed.

    C) Number of people in the 7 day cruise req'mt

    I, for one, believe it is critical that these characteristics be tied down numerically before a
    design can be selected...

    Ross

    [ 02-21-2005, 11:00 PM: Message edited by: Ross M ]

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    Ross interesting parameters although I will be hard pressed to come up with acceptable ones not bein numerically inclined however...

    A) Draft... as I am uneducated on how these figures work to give the best result all I can say is that it will be a working boat in the ocean {not rivers or shallow waters} if and I hope it does gives you or anyone else some idea of what is required given the other perameters above

    B) Desired and maximum speed... I am not a speed freak and find no need to go fast as long as the boat can get out there to the fishing feilds and back reliably an old deisel put put of the old fishing boat style would be enough however again as I dont know how these motors work in relation to dimensions and capabilities I leave that to others to conclude again given the parameters already given

    C) Number of people... maximum number would be 4 most times 2 or 3

    Sorry I cant be more specific with regard A and B I wonder though if the draft would not be tied a) to the size LxB and b) trailering capabilities given that I dont intend to moor it but intend to trail it 400 klicks from Kal to Esperance all would have to be tied to that capability no?... and as for speed well I can always have an auxillary outboard for those times I require speed could I not? perhaps a small 15 or 25hp?... but the main would be a small inboard marine engine

    Hope that helps?

  23. #23
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    Shane I saw a Snapper Boat by David Payne at the boat show. I think you want sumpin like that only bigger, with a decent inboard. It would be ideal for pottering about that mess of rocks near Esperence. I think you should get him to design ya one. Provisional Name ..."Dingo Boat"

  24. #24
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    Got pics Shamus?

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    .
    Here you go Shane, the Sydneysider's couta boat --



    Not really a live-aboard, though.

    But what about my favourite, Paketi? --



    You can get her as a full cruising design, or as a day-boat with a cuddy, as a centre-boarder or bilge-keeler, even with a deck saloon....
    .

  26. #26
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    Those sketches make her look more delicate than I thought. Without the sails, what I was looking at looked very business like and workboatish. If a similar style of hull could be designed big enough to give you sleeping room (a cuddy for 2?. I wouldn't want a very big rig at all for the purpose you envision, but to be able to use a steadying jib might be nice. Wish I'd taken a photo of that one.

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    Okay so Im bored witless tonight so I was just about to send the order of to old Mr GlenL for the Noyo Trawler plans when I wandered in here and found this old thread of mine...

    1) I cant seem to get this thread to appear anymore? Anyone have a clue as to how it can be seen again?

    about sardine carriers

    2) This boat INTERESTS me... but again I cant get into the website for some reason... does anyone have ANY info on the availability of plans for the type of boat shown?



    Shamus you will be getting a message!
    Cheers all
    Last edited by Wild Dingo; 10-23-2007 at 10:04 AM.

  28. #28
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    OK Dingo 'I's gots to be honest with you mon. You're on the right track but I don't like the look of that outboard. I think you might be looking for a small Pompeii or one of th lesser known Wilson Bros ex fishing boats. It all depends whether you're more interested in building the damn thing yourselkf or having a boat.Now you're earning them mining dollars the boating worlds ya oyster.

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    Default Re: Okay with a change of location comes a change of tack

    I have absofrigginlutely NO IDEA what I just did then!! I thought Id posted a new post... but apparently I think I must have edited that last one... somehow??? nope I didnt well I dont think I did?? hit the edit button? wow!! man am I having a WAY WAY interesting night!!!

    Okay sooooo... I wouldnt mind some info on that boat up there in my last post from 2005!!! Anyone?

    Definantly interested in building
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    Default Re: Okay with a change of location comes a change of tack

    Shane;
    The solution to all your problems is to move closer to the water (Ideally get some waterfront property) and hook yourself up with Peterson's 57 footer we both love so much. In fact, I plan on heading to see him in the spring some time to get the plans. (at least SWMBO hasn't vetoed that idea....YET) I'll keep you abreast of her as she progresses.

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    Default Re: Okay with a change of location comes a change of tack

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild Dingo View Post
    I have absofrigginlutely NO IDEA what I just did then!! I thought Id posted a new post... but apparently I think I must have edited that last one... somehow??? nope I didnt well I dont think I did?? hit the edit button? wow!! man am I having a WAY WAY interesting night!!!
    Trick or Treat, Ya unwashed unbeliever!
    Hey! It's MY Hughniverse!

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    Default Re: Okay with a change of location comes a change of tack

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild Dingo View Post
    Okay sooooo... I wouldnt mind some info on that boat up there in my last post from 2005!!! Anyone?

    Definantly interested in building

    Are you asking about this one?



    It is a design by R.D. (Pete) Culler. I think that the plans are available from Mystic Seaport these days.

    I can look up the particulars on the design later this evening.

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    Default Re: Okay with a change of location comes a change of tack

    I believe that boat was built to the revised version of Pete Culler's 24-foot v-bottomed fast outboard launch. It's shown on pg. 105 of Pete Culler's Boats, but the book doesn't have many particulars other than the length and beam (7'0"). There are also shorter and longer versions, ranging from 15 feet to 30 feet. Mystic should have the plans.

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    Default Re: Okay with a change of location comes a change of tack

    Sailor... Yep one would like the Peterson... but well... you missus may not have vetoed it yet but mine has

    Hugh so it was the hex of the halloween that got me eh? flamin eck!! maybe I better start believing??? nah not likely

    Jon... cheers mate that would be good

    Steve... Mystic eh?... well my success with ANY of the museums up your way has over the years been exactly ZERO... no return contact at all and it really doesnt matter which museum I try none of them return emails... maybe its just me or maybe its an international thing but its the experience Ive had and if you remember when Fame was happening I actually ended up having an offer from Thad who went and sourced them from the Peabody because they wouldnt respond to me!! (Thanks be to Thad!! )

    So whilst they may well be in some museum up there that of itself is more of a hinderence to me than any sort of help... so Ive pretty much given up even contacting them... cause even for just basic information such as "do you have in your collection so and so by so and so" I get nothing in return... and mate that gets bloody irritating

    But hey its okay no worries been down that road a number of times over the years so know what not to expect from them so Im cool with it.

    Cheers fellas!
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  35. #35
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    Default Re: Okay with a change of location comes a change of tack

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild Dingo View Post
    Steve... Mystic eh?... well my success with ANY of the museums up your way has over the years been exactly ZERO... no return contact at all and it really doesnt matter which museum I try none of them return emails... maybe its just me or maybe its an international thing but its the experience Ive had and if you remember when Fame was happening I actually ended up having an offer from Thad who went and sourced them from the Peabody because they wouldnt respond to me!! (Thanks be to Thad!! )

    So whilst they may well be in some museum up there that of itself is more of a hinderence to me than any sort of help... so Ive pretty much given up even contacting them... cause even for just basic information such as "do you have in your collection so and so by so and so" I get nothing in return... and mate that gets bloody irritating
    Well, criminity you old phart, if there's something you want from Mystic say that word and I'll get it for you. I've ordered three sets of plans from them without any difficulty. I'm serious.

  36. #36
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    Default Re: Okay with a change of location comes a change of tack

    I'd dig up the old issue of WB mag that the photo is taken from but I'm too lazy.

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    Default Re: Okay with a change of location comes a change of tack

    Steve hit the high points, 24' length x 7' beam.

    The boat in the photo was owned by Ginny Biddle in the 1980's. She had this to say about the boat in the WoodenBoat article:

    “MRS. JONES came with a nearly new 70-hp Evinrude, which makes her fly at speeds I never used to think were proper for a boat to attain. She handles with graceful ease and can take care of herself dependably in a spicy northwest blow in Buzzards Bay. She was designed as a "commuter launch" to ferry people here and there. Forward there is a low cabin that will keep luggage and dogs dry but has only sitting-on-floor headroom for humans. Aft of this cabinhouse is a large open cockpit finished on three sides with seats. I haul pots in this cockpit, and all 10 of them will easily fit with room to spare. Two-thirds of the way aft , a console covers two permanent 20-gallon gas tanks, and houses the wheel and controls as well as providing locker space. Over it all is Pete Culler's "Rhode Island box," a little removable pilothouse with five windows but not quite standing headroom. Two people can stay quite dry, seated close up against the console. The after cockpit is much smaller, accommodating four people. The engine has its own semi-well aft; the bilge pump discharges here and out through two scuppers. She's a chine boat with wide, heavy lapped strakes to the waterline and a diagonally planked bottom carried forward to the vee entry.”

    She was built to the Pete Culler plans by Concordia Co. in 1972.

    The “diagonally planked bottom carried forward to the vee entry” is what Capt. Pete referred to as a file or herringbone bottom. Basically, straight sided planks layed at an angle to the centerline to accommodate the vee-bottomed shape. This is traditional construction using moderately heavy scantlings in the style of boats from the Chesapeake Bay.

    The plans for the boat are reproduced at reduced scale in the book Skiffs and Schooners by R. D. Culler. There is also a chapter on the construction method in the same book. The same drawings are also shown in the John Burke catalog of Pete Culler plans (as Steve Paskey noted). BTW, based on the reduced scale drawings, it looks like Culler spec'ed “twin 20 HP Mercs” or a single 36 HP on the plans.

    The drawings are typical of Pete Culler's skiff plans. There are 2 sheets of plans. The are offsets are noted on the lines drawing (rather than in a seperate table). Construction details are shown on a single section drawing. There are no full size sections or other accommodations for amateur builders.

    There have been articles about boats built to these lines published in various magazines over the years. I can't lay my hands on any at the moment but seem to recall an article or two in the old Small Boat Journal and maybe others in WoodenBoat besides the one by Ginny Biddle. My recollection is that everyone speaks favorably about the boat.

    I won't venture an opinion as to whether this boat would suit your needs or not but it is defintely a very handsome boat to my eye. This boat and Atkin's Ninigret are at the top of my list of favorite open power boats.

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    Default Re: Okay with a change of location comes a change of tack

    So shes fairly heavy built? good that to me is an important point and one I just cant seem to get out of my head.

    See while I think something like the Noyo would be excellent shes still a plywood boat... and nothing against them but going to some of the areas Ive been fishing over the last few years since I started this thread Id have to say Id rather something with a bit more "meat" in its build than ply offers... the GAB (Great Aussie Bight) and the waters of the Kimberleys and Pilbara are open waters to the Indian ocean and can get rough and heavy going... last outing I had back about 6 months was in a mates 20ft ali cat up at Sharks Bay and the weather turned and we headed for shore and safety ended up scraping on the rocks and the ali just pealed away from the starboard hull... not a good look or feel... and I cant help thinking that a ply hull would have done the same maybe thats against what others know to happen but for me Im thinking a heavy built boat is gonna haul its ass out of there intact or with at least enough meat left after the scrape to get back to shore

    So Im presently going through the heavy built timber fishing boat type in the hope of finding the one that stands out and belts me over the head... its not looking like Im going to get away to Albany for at least a month now so Jo has taken Crest out of the frame. too many other commitments here for me to be taking of to Queensland and if shes okay for the trip back taking a week or more out to travel with her... so Im looking again

    Thanks for all that info Jon appreciated mate
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    Default Re: Okay with a change of location comes a change of tack

    Dingo, Pete Culler's book has drawings and offsers for a 16', 18' 24' and 30' version of this boat. The ink is a bit smudged on some of the plates, so you have to be a bit creative with the measurements, but they are sort of legible.
    The drawings have all the construction details as well.
    If you want to pm me with your snail mail address I could copy them, blow them up and send you copies.
    I too am keen on these designs for a working powerboat.

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    Default Re: Okay with a change of location comes a change of tack

    Gidday Paul
    Cheers!! as they say... you have email
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    Default Re: Okay with a change of location comes a change of tack

    Heres a co-incidence, I've just signed up to this forum, I'm looking for plans for this Pete culler skiff and I live in West Australia, spooky? I've looked for Cullers book but it is ridiculously expensive . Anyone know someone who has plans or has built one in the last few years.

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    Default Re: Okay with a change of location comes a change of tack

    YOU WHAT??? Your from WA?? bloody hell mate WELFRIGGINCOME!!!

    About flamin time another sandgroper got in this place! Ive been bangin me head for years now but its always the same... east coaters east coasters east friggin coasters!!! Not that theyre bad fellas pretty good bunch actually just the occasional west aussie would have been nice in here occasionally

    sigh so long the voice of reason... so long the calm voice of sanity amid the headlong rush of utter confusion that is the woodenboat forum... so long have I held out hope of another sandgroper finding this place and now just as all hope was lost in reserecting an old thread you drop in like the proverbial will o the wisp!

    Cheers and welcome!!
    .................................................. ...................
    Nil illegitimi carborundum = Never let the bastards wear you down

  43. #43
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    West Australia
    Posts
    140

    Thumbs up Re: Okay with a change of location comes a change of tack

    Thanks for that, dont know if you could call me a sandgroper, more like a shipwrecked paddy enjoyin the climate, although I've been known to grope on the sand on a hot summer night. T

  44. #44
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    West Australia
    Posts
    140

    Default Re: Okay with a change of location comes a change of tack

    hello again, I thought I'd try to ease the dissappointment of my not being a real west aussie by trying to provide a little of the voice of reason and calm sanity you so desire. I thought the account of your misadventure at shark bay was interesting because having worked as a wooden boat builder in the uk and ireland over the years I have heard many people site the same reasons for not having a wooden boat at all, believing that a fibreglass or steel/ali boat would be better. I was always tempted to say that they should build their boat or a material that was harder than the rock or try to sail around it. Seriosly though whatever your misgivings about ply you can always sheath it with epoxy/ cloth for extra strenght. If that still isn't enough then you can still build a hull designed for ply construction by cold-molding with solid wood,eg if the design calls for 18mm ply then 3 layers of 6mm solid wood at 90 degrees will provide the same thickness and I reckon will be really tough, again for extra reassurance you can then sheath the lot. Cold molding a hull designed for ply construction would be very easy as the lack of shape would mean very little shaping of the veneers for fitting, but this construction method really comes into its own with a round bilge resulting in a hull which is both robust yet light (and traditional). Down side is lots of epoxy to clean up and staples to fix and then remove. I'm assuming you aren't planning to build your "heavy fishing type" by traditional carvel means, I don't think a boat like that would enjoy sitting on a trailer in Kalgoolie for 11 months of the year. T

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