Morse zigzag

[davebrown]

My wife has expressed an interest in building a sail or two. It would be fun to be able to experiment with more than one rig for my present boats, and I have a Coquina coming along that will need a tuxedo pretty soon. Since she hasn't ever tried a sewing project of that magnitutude--building any sail, that is--I don't want to plunk down $900 for a specialty rig. I want to try it out once and see if it holds her interest. I found a Morse ZigZag for not much money, in surprisingly good shape (it looks to be a mid50s model, made in Japan) and I have found several sites that mention it as adequate for small boat sailmaking. I would expect to use something like 4 ounce dacron, and in the range of 50-100sq. ft. size. One problem that I see coming right out of the gate is the seller says it works, but doesn't know how to operate it herself. Therefore, I don't know what size needle the machine might be able to handle, and I would have to figure out if it is truly operational--as opposed to the motor works and it looks functional. The machine is cheap enough that if she loses interest, it will be a nominal loss only.

Any sailmakers have an opinion? As an aside, I have a couple of sailmaking books, including The Sailmaker's Apprentice, which seems much more thorough than our experience will probably ever achieve.

[BobW]

Dave,

I am by no means any sort of expert or authority on sewing machines or sewing.

Recently I sewed the 105 square foot lug sail for my Goat Island Skiff. I had never used a sewing machine before in my life (mistakenly intimidated by them). I had no idea what I was doing when I first sat down to use the machine. My sister was going to help me with the sail but time constraints and other life events got in the way of her helping. She did show me how to fill a bobbin, thread the machine and adjust tension. After that I was on my own.

I used my sister's Singer Genie sewing machine - an early '70s vintage offering zig-zag stitches.




SailRite (yes, I used a kit) provided the supplies. I ordered 4.0 oz. sailcloth and SailRite recommended a #16 needle (so did the machine's operating manual).

After a bit of frustration figuring things out, I produced a decent working sail that looks pretty good to me. Sure, some of the stitching could have been better - and it will be on the next one - but I was encouraged by the experience.



If an absolutely unskilled and inexperienced guy like me can sew a sail on a middle-aged Singer machine, I suspect your wife will do quite well with the Morse.

Bob

[Todd Bradshaw]

Yup, a #16 needle (metric size 100 and about like the heavier offerings for home machines - blue jean needles, etc.) is plenty for 4 oz. Dacron and so is V46 thread, which isn't any heavier than some of the heavy-duty button threads used on home machines. You need enough punching power to go through maybe 6-8 layers plus the seaming tape holding them in place for corners, but most of the sewing is just a couple layers of cloth and one of tape.

I don't know anything about Morse machines, but most of the google images that come up for them look like they're pretty sturdy and shouldn't have a problem once you get them dialed-in for the job.

[davebrown]

Thank you for your comments. I found another site that states these machines are very high quality industrial grade workhorses. If the one I found is in good condition, I'll buy it--$40! Bob--great job--where the heck are you? Weren't you formally my neighbor? Didn't you launch that Goat in Natomas?

[BobW]

Good find if that machine is in good condition.

Yep, I launched my GIS on Natomas in February of last year. Later that spring I realized I could retire at the end of the year, so I did!

I left Sacramento this past January and have been traveling around a bit (Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Florida, Arkansas, Tennessee, Kentucky, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Maryland and Virginia). My sister offered me the use of their vacation/get-away place in Central Michigan as a home base and that is just about perfect for me.

At the end of August I'm heading west to visit family and friends in Washington, Oregon and California. I plan to attend the PT Wooden Boat Festival, do some boating (the Goat is coming with me), some camping and visit with people I haven't seen in nearly a year.

When I get back to Michigan I'll start my next build - a Pathfinder. And when the weather gets too cold for the epoxy, I'll head south for a month or two.

Bob

[wizbang 13]

here is a tip that you may or may not need
I had an old machine that would loose power, so I removed the thread and bobbin and needle and flywheel and hooked the flywheel shaft to an electric grinder via hose and hose clamps and ran it fast for a few minutes.
Sure enough, feeling around underneath, there was a hot spot, a stuck bearing. I focused my penetrating oil there , and there only, and fixed her.
The 60YO machine looked brand new and had very little wear, I figgured the poor way it ran had something to do with it.
Anyway, good luck, making sails is as satisfying as boat building, and cleaner.
Also, in general, I have found a bit extra tension above and a bit less below (bobbin) to work good with slippery dacron and poly thread.

[davebrown]

Bob: what fun! Hope to run into you in our neck of the woods if you are back this way. Whizbang: Gotcha. Yes, I feel like i am ont he edge of another fun chapter of boatbuilding. the machines are interesting, and, it seems, there are lots of these types of machines sitting around in people's attics--it is a rare individual who knows anything about them at all, it seems. I found a White heavy duty zigzag that is made by the Toyota car company (!!!) and the damn thing looks, in photos, like it is brand new. Under $50.

[BobW]

Dave: I'll be in Sacramento in late September so we'll have a chance to get together. I'll let you know what I'm up to.

By the way, where are you finding these sewing machines? My sister's machine works well but it would be nice to have my own but I haven't had much luck with CL in central Michigan (at least not for sewing machines).

Bob

Bob

[davebrown]

Bob: these things are all over the place at Goodwills, and the like. I have found half a dozen, but I have been reading up on it so I know now that I want a Singer 401, or one of the 60's Japanese badged machines. I found one for $15 at a Goodwill in Davis, CA, but it didn't have a manual--which means I can't tell if it is complete or not as is. I have found sevaeral more Morse machines, which appear to be great, but they are so far a little more than I want to drive.

[davebrown]

Bob: these things are all over the place at Goodwills, and the like. I have found half a dozen, but I have been reading up on it so I know now that I want a Singer 401, or one of the 60's Japanese badged machines. I found one for $15 at a Goodwill in Davis, CA, but it didn't have a manual--which means I can't tell if it is complete or not as is. I have found sevaeral more Morse machines, which appear to be great, but they are so far a little more than I want to drive.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/atq/2532889007.html

[Eddiebou]

Dave,
Good luck with your sailmaking/ sewing machines. My mother made the sails for a model boat I built ( I helped/ watched). I learned a lot from her. It was really interresting to see the different stiches and methods she used. I'd like to make a set of sails myself, but I had to turn it over to a professional this last time around, just so I could get in the water and see the fruits of my efforts in a reasonable amount of time, you know.
I have 1 set of sails from Nat Wilson's shop. They're 25 yrs old, a little dirty, but the workmanship is incredible. The rat-tailed loops and the hand-sewing, the sheepskin chafe guards, the splicing....Wow! It ain't all about the machine.

[BobW]

Dave, Thanks for the shopping tips. I've got time to shop some before my next build is ready for sails. Hopefully, I can find a machine of my own. If not, well, my sister says I can still use hers.

Bob

[davebrown]

Eddiebou: well said: "it's not just the machine". We'll try it and see how it goes. Anymore photos of your deadrise?

[davebrown]

I found another high grade machine, and I actually have time to go look at it today. Do any of you fellers who makes sails (or ladies, for that matter) know if a MULTI STITCH zigzag is required, over the standard zigzag? To define, the multi stitch will have 3 or 5 stitches on each little leg of the zig before it zags. A standard, old fashioned zigzag will be one stitch per zig and one stitch per zag. I know this is technical, but this machine is a White 645 built like a panzer tank, in really good shape, and does not do a multi stitch zigzag, but does do the older simple zigzag. Price is not really an issue--I can afford any good used machine, although I don't want to buy an industrial one. This one seems like the perfect candidate if the stitch is correct.

[Todd Bradshaw]

The multi stitch machines (usually three-step for sailmaking) are popular with production lofts because they allow the sewing person to sew a panel seam in one pass with a wide 3-step stitch, rather than the traditional two lines of regular zig-zag (one down each side of the seam). Thus, they save labor time. That's the only "advantage" of them and the double lines of regular stitching are usually stronger and catch and tack down the edges of the seams better than the 3-step does - they just take longer to sew a complete seam.

I like the 3-step for making spinnakers, where the seam tape is actually doing most of the work and you just want a quick line of stitching to reinforce it a bit, but I have never had one to use on regular sails and haven't ever missed having one.

[davebrown]

Thank you for the kind and prompt response. That makes it easier to find a machine. The White, whihc was actually a Toyota (!!!) was in very good condition but all of the attachments--including the zigzag foot--are gone. No good. It's been fun looking for a vintage machine. Some of them are real works of art--and almost free. Very little demand for them anymore.

[asloth]

Dave, South of you, in Watsonville, Frank Zorra has been ******/****** used sewing machines for many decades. I bought a few industrial machines from him when I was making camping gear years ago. He might have what you want, or know of where to look. If you're interested, I can PM you his phone #.

Steve C.

[Todd Bradshaw]

Keep in mind when you're looking at machines that the first thing you may want to do to one is slow it down. I timed my machine once and found that at full speed, it would sew 25.5 stitches per second and a lot of industrial machines are even faster than that. For production work where you would probably be doing one job over and over, that works. If you watch factory sewers at work, they sew in short, machine-gun-like bursts. That's fine if you're set up for it, but for much of the sewing you would do on sails, covers, etc. you need a slower speed for control, especially when sewing a narrow seam right on top of the cloth edges, like a sail panel seam, luff tape attachment, etc. You may also be sewing from a rather uncomfortable position, which makes accurate guiding more difficult. You may need to do some pully substitutions in order to gear-down an industrial machine and slow it down, so keep that in the back of your head as you're hunting.

[davebrown]

Thanks Todd: a sewing machine repairman told me that an industrial grade is too fast for amateur sail work, but that a heavy duty, commercial grade household machine would be correct. Like I said, it's been really fun to learn about these machines--they are real works of art. The White I found a day or two ago would have been perfect. Plenty more around!