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Thread: Vertue 25 sloop

  1. #36

    Default Re: Vertue 25 sloop

    The pictures are here .

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Vertue 25 sloop

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Palmer View Post
    If you are really interested in this boat, read the book "My Old Man and the Sea." Its written by a father and son who sail a fiberglass Vertue without an engine from Rhode Island, through the Panama Canal, around Cape Horn, and back up to Rhode Island. The sone does a lot of the North American part of the trip by himself. There is a lot about the design worked into the story.

    Brian
    I especially enjoyed this book as it was written by a high school classmate of mine. He still has the Vertue and last I knew was coincidentally living in Brooklin, Maine.


    Steven

  3. #38

    Default Re: Vertue 25 sloop

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Palmer View Post
    If you are really interested in this boat, read the book "My Old Man and the Sea." Its written by a father and son who sail a fiberglass Vertue without an engine from Rhode Island, through the Panama Canal, around Cape Horn, and back up to Rhode Island. The sone does a lot of the North American part of the trip by himself. There is a lot about the design worked into the story.

    Brian
    Many, many thanks for recommending this book - I really enjoyed it. Now I want my Vertue back...

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Vertue 25 sloop

    I wanna old clapped out vertue!
    I met Dan Bowen in 1974,just having singlehanded the Atlantic in one.Vertue would be perfect for my PNWboat

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Vertue 25 sloop

    $5000.00 copyright for a new one??That is steep!

  6. #41

    Default Yikes!

    I ran across this yesterday: http://capecod.craigslist.org/boa/3165134821.html What happened?

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Vertue 25 sloop

    Yikes indeed?

    Ethan???
    Jarndyce and Jarndyce

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  8. #43
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    Default Re: Vertue 25 sloop

    Rotten keel, g n b are going to build and design a new boat .

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Vertue 25 sloop

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    Rotten keel, g n b are going to build and design a new boat .
    Lol....you just summed up a year and many thousands of dollars in one sentence! Very well done! Of course, it never unfolds quite that simply....(unfortunately!)

    Anyone need some lead?

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Vertue 25 sloop

    Just out of curiosity, what do other forum members think about this boat being broken up? I am sitting on the fence on this one, i didnt have to pay for it,and so it was not my boat to decide what action to take. I know a lot of people will probably think otherwise.....

    PS.I need 400kg of lead,could you give me a price for air mail to Sweden?

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Vertue 25 sloop

    I am sick about it.
    2 things come to mind, trust your OWN survey, and be aggressive ,
    The myth of carvel boats being infinitely repairable.
    one wonders, as the copyright foe a Vertue is 4 or5 grand, Can one re build the keel and save a single stick of wood and have it be the same boat?

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Vertue 25 sloop

    I see Easy Vertue was V#27, there's another Elkins built Vertue, Kukri (V#74), here on Gabriola and looking for a new caretaker. She's been "being rebuilt" by various owners for 10 years or so, still needs hatches, an interior, and a rig, what's there is good. She's not my boat, I'd just like to see her go where she's appreciated.......
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  13. #48
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    Default Re: Vertue 25 sloop

    Sounds like thats close enough to you Bruce? Everything is infinately repairable, but that comes at expense. "Yachting" was always a rich mans pastime, but just because someone does not wish to invest maybe $50,000 in a rebuild and may not get that money back, does that mean he should not posses the boat in the first place?

    I have seen way too many wooden boats,sunk,burnt and stripped for parts, mainly because there was not a market for them, very few people have the time and money these days. Sad to see boats get broken up, but sometimes its not realistic to keep a boat in storage for several years while waiting for the right person to come along. Cheers

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Vertue 25 sloop

    one wonders, as the copyright foe a Vertue is 4 or5 grand, Can one re build the keel and save a single stick of wood and have it be the same boat?[/QUOTE]

    The pilot cutter "kindly Light" was rebuilt and is 99% new. I believe only the keelson was kept,everything else was replaced. She is still called "kindly Light". If you bought that ballast keel knowing it belonged to Easy Vertue,then i dont see why you would have to pay a commission,its part of an existing(?) yacht,you are just replacing all the wood.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Vertue 25 sloop

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    one wonders, as the copyright foe a Vertue is 4 or5 grand, Can one re build the keel and save a single stick of wood and have it be the same boat?
    The pilot cutter "kindly Light" was rebuilt and is 99% new. I believe only the keelson was kept,everything else was replaced. She is still called "kindly Light". If you bought that ballast keel knowing it belonged to Easy Vertue,then i dont see why you would have to pay a commission,its part of an existing(?) yacht,you are just replacing all the wood.[/QUOTE]

    Slocum puts it quite elegantly: "Now, it is a law in Lloyd's that the Jane repaired all out of the old until she is entirely new is still the Jane. The Spray changed her being so gradually that it was hard to say at what point the old died or the new took birth, and it was no matter."
    R
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  16. #51
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    Default Re: Vertue 25 sloop

    Quote Originally Posted by Redeye View Post
    "Now, it is a law in Lloyd's that the Jane repaired all out of the old until she is entirely new is still the Jane. The Spray changed her being so gradually that it was hard to say at what point the old died or the new took birth, and it was no matter."
    I'll have a look and see if there's currently anything on this in Lloyd's.......But I understand it something like, "As long as the vessel is not in two places at once, it's a rebuild/refit.". Thus legally (AFAIK)the new Bluenose II is still the Bluenose II, built 1963.
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  17. #52
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    Default Re: Vertue 25 sloop

    Well , In that case , Ethan has himself a valuable hunk of lead there! It still is "Easy Vertue" ! Is it not??

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Vertue 25 sloop

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    Well , In that case , Ethan has himself a valuable hunk of lead there! It still is "Easy Vertue" ! Is it not??
    Ultimately the marketplace will establish whether something is valuable or not. Frankly I don't see a thriving market for Vertues in NA..............

    As far as I'm concerned if the new boat was properly built to the original scantlings and lines it would indeed be Easy Vertue.....But I guess the question really falls to Mr. Van Geffen......
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  19. #54
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    Default Re: Vertue 25 sloop

    I believe Bossams Boatyard in UK, built a few Vertues in glassed strip plank. Im thinking Wizz could knock one out in less time than a Venus 28......something less than 3 months then?

    Last edited by skaraborgcraft; 08-29-2012 at 10:47 AM.

  20. #55
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    Well , In that case , Ethan has himself a valuable hunk of lead there! It still is "Easy Vertue" ! Is it not??
    Hmmm...interesting point. Wonder if I should offer to throw the plans in (for reference only during the rebuild). Of course I couldn't increase the asking price cause that would be akin to trying to resell Barry's plans, which I don't want to do. Gotta think on this - want to clear this project off but not screw anybody in the process.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Vertue 25 sloop

    I'll back him to have it decked and with a house in yellow cedar strip in 4 months...
    R
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  22. #57
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    Default Re: Vertue 25 sloop

    I understand one highly respected wooden boat building yard recently quoted a customer the price of $100,000 to build a new Vertue. That's pretty much where the new-build price has been hovering in recent years. So, with a savings of maybe $8,000 for lead, pattern and casting and another $2,000 for the license to build (the actual price currently quoted), you're only $90,000 away from owning a new one! Even in this economy, they are costly boats, mainly because of their construction details. Nevertheless, they continue to average two or three built a year in the seventy-five years of so since they were first designed. Few designs of similar size and cost can say the same.

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Vertue 25 sloop

    I don't know if the original poster is still on this thread, but I had a couple of comments. First, does he like to work with his hands, is he good with tools, how much woodworking has he done? How much sailing? What type of sailing would he like to do?
    Finally, is he more interested in a Project, or in Going Sailing.
    IF he's good with tools, repairing a wooden yacht is feasible. I think it would be less fun than building a boat from scratch, and would cost more than buying a turn-key fiberglass boat of similar size.
    The fact is that at this point in the history of world moderate-sized (24-34') FRP sailboats are everywhere, and sell for very little money. In contrast, yacht building wood and materials like bronze screws, have become expensive. Thirty years ago there were enough wooden fishing boats around that there were still workmen who worked on wooden hulls as if was a job, as opposed to an Art Form pr Religion. Today, there are almost no wooden workboats left, and the repair of wooden hulls is a boutique proposition.
    It seems to me that the one remaining place where it's economical to build and own wooden hulls is owner-built small hulls, say smaller than 23'. I should say that sizing boats by hull length is not very precise. A Vertue is a very big 25' boat, probably twice as big as a Herreshof "Prudence" in terms of weight and internal volume. But a boat that can be towed on a trailer behind a pickup truck, and stored in a two-car garage, can be a pleasure to build and reasonable to maintain.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Vertue 25 sloop

    As a further aside, I personally think that Vertue's are a good design, and they've done remarkable blue water passages. It would not be my choice for sailing in Chesapeake Bay, where a shallow-draft centerboarder opens up lots of places to go. On the other hand, if you have the interest, temprement, and bankroll to support an ocean voyaging habit, here's one for sale in England:
    http://www.woodenships.co.uk/sailing...t-giles-vertue
    Teak, diesel, 1963, $38,000 USD.

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Vertue 25 sloop

    Quote Originally Posted by seo View Post
    As a further aside, I personally think that Vertue's are a good design, and they've done remarkable blue water passages. It would not be my choice for sailing in Chesapeake Bay, where a shallow-draft centerboarder opens up lots of places to go. On the other hand, if you have the interest, temprement, and bankroll to support an ocean voyaging habit, here's one for sale in England:
    http://www.woodenships.co.uk/sailing...t-giles-vertue
    Teak, diesel, 1963, $38,000 USD.
    The 1963 Cheoy Lee Vertue is an identical sistership to my own Patience, SN 136. They were likely built side by side. She appears to be in excellent condition. I wish I could say the same! Mine is in serious need of some planking replacement thanks to a new breed of terredo in SF Bay and, all things considered, I think after almost 40 years of ownership, she deserves to be passed on to someone else who can enjoy the next forty years of her after I'm long gone. Such is life, I suppose.

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Vertue 25 sloop

    $100k will not come close to building a new Vertue anything close to "as designed", and certainly not under Lloyd's survey. A Vertue is about 9500 pounds of boat, the materials will be at least $10 a pound and there's 3500 man hours in her construction, which in any decent yard will be $200k in labour. $300k+ is the reason no new Vertues are being built in professional yards today. Not when you can buy a perfectly good one for $38k or less......
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  27. #62
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    Default Re: Vertue 25 sloop

    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    $100k will not come close to building a new Vertue anything close to "as designed", and certainly not under Lloyd's survey. A Vertue is about 9500 pounds of boat, the materials will be at least $10 a pound and there's 3500 man hours in her construction, which in any decent yard will be $200k in labour. $300k+ is the reason no new Vertues are being built in professional yards today. Not when you can buy a perfectly good one for $38k or less......
    I cant' speak to the economics of professional construction, but I don't doubt your analysis, particularly with the Lloyd's certification. They are still being built as we speak, but I can't say whether or not any are being built one off professionally. Historically, all Vertues were "bespoke," being custom ordered by their owners. Only Cheoy Lee ever built them on anything like a production basis and then only for a rather short while. That ended when Cheoy Lee (and everybody else) got into fibreglass boats. Bossons Boatyard in England worked out a "Vertue II" with the Giles Partners in 1976 or so. This is a fibreglass hull (not strip planked, although the Giles Archive has available plans available for strip planking and welded steel hulls, a few of which have been built.) There have been a number of Vertue II's built by Bossons, including the one in the book "My Old Man and the Sea." They have a few inches more freeboard and consequently a few inches more length and beam. They also reduced the tumblehome to make removal from the mold less of a hassle. http://www.bossoms.com/launches-ding...vertue-ii.html
    Last edited by Bob Cleek; 08-30-2012 at 06:07 PM.

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Vertue 25 sloop

    The Giles book reports the Vertue II was designed to be built in fiberglass initially by Rossiter yachts, then by Westerly Marine, and finally by Bossom Boatyard. By 1990 only 20 fiberglass boats had been delivered, 5 "overseas" including 2 to the USA (Sparrow and Sallie). They mention beam was increased 4" at deck, leaving the underbody the same. They also claim the fiberglass structure was lighter and allowed increased ballast, producing a stiffer boat.
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