New Welsford Design - Nautilus sailing Canoe

[PeterSibley]

.

The CLC SOT kit creates a good looking boat.



It's functional, looks good, and CLC shift a lot of kits. I understand that epoxy clinker is the most refined, yet all the main kit suppliers concentrate mainly on S+T or varients such as lapstitch. No one has created volume sales with epoxy ply kits, never mind where the planks are shaped by the novice builder. I was hoping that a high quality CNC kit of jig and parts might change that but that's not to be.
I really want people to build Nautilus and enjoy a carefully designed sailing canoe. Most people coming to a sailing canoe design will not have sailed one before, so there will have great concerns about that narrow beam. If worries about capability of building is loaded on top of that, few will start. Remove the build concerns and the design doesn't loose customer even before it started.
Look at the high quality work by PT Watercraft with their lovely 11 Skiff as an example of good looking results.
Yes I would love a non glassed epoxy clinker hull but I do not have the skills needed, I do think I could build in the female mould Stitch+Sheath style that CLC have proven so well suits new builders.

Brian
Brian

That is certainly me Brian but if you see my post above S&G is not necessarily my chosen method. However I may not reflect the general new builder view. I always bite off more than I can comfortably chew .

As to your building ability and S&G, I think glued lap would be easier to achieve a good job with for the reasons mentioned in the previous post. Go through the process in your head and see if you agree with me. The plank shapes are the same but with lap allowance added. The lap bevel is easy to pick up with a long batten and the base of your plane and gooey epoxy helps in the forgiveness of sins. No glass and no sanding to try and make the thing smooth, then fill and start again. As you can see glass and resin is not my preferred path !

[keyhavenpotterer]

Saw the launching today of the George Holmes Cassy 14' canoe yawl. It was really inspirational to see her on the water. The builder looked so comfortable rowing her around the harbour, she looked really good even just as a decked rowing boat. Having trouble loading pictures from my camera, but will post lots when sorted. It was easy to image just how great Nautilus will look and how handy she will be.

Managed to upload just a few pictures.

[Hesp]

Here's some I took.

Looked like they were having great fun.

John

[PeterSibley]

So Brian..... Nautilus will be very similar to this Cassy but about 10% bigger in all dimensions ? No major differences ? I assume Cassy is strip planked ?

Very,very nice !

[keyhavenpotterer]

Hi Peter, post 137 has the drawings and build pics for Cassy. She's a bit shorter at 14' rather than 15'6" and a bit wider at 40" rather than 36". Absolutely in the "generic line" of new Nautilus. Cassy was built with about 30 lbs in each board, whereas we have 55 lbs of water ballast and 75 lbs of lead.

Really great to see her on the water.

Brian

[PeterSibley]

Oops ! Sorry Brian, I forgot that post .I'll have another look and refresh my rusty brain .

Cassy, by George Holmes, is one of the 1800's sailing canoes which inspired our new Nautilus. Cassy is just 40" beam, no ballast apart from a 75 lb plate and carries 104 sq ft of sail. The new one does look more than 40" beam?



Thanks to a heads-up from Gavin at http://intheboatshed.net/ I will now be able to see a brand new Cassy being launched on the 7th Dec at the Lyme bay Boating School seasons launchings. Really looking forward to seeing her in the flesh. Looks like she has also been built with twin bilge boards.

Here are some build photos from the School website http://www.boatbuildingacademy.com/students/studentprofilesmarch11/DerekThompson-14CanoeYawlCassy.htm

[PeterSibley]

.Brian ,sorting back through a few old Classic Boats I found a series articles on building the Holmes ''Ethyl''. I don't have all the articles, I think there were 9 but if you have a decent secondhand bookseller nearby they could make interesting reading .She's a much tubbier little thing 4'6'' beam x 13'1'' OA.

Not quite in the Nautilus genre I suppose but interesting

[upchurchmr]

Gentlemen,

I just found an interesting resource with a direct reference to a "Nautilus" canoe. Go to www.archive.org which is a site for free access to digital books. Search for "A Manual of Yacht and Boat Sailing" by Dixon Kemp (1880), click on Read Online and go to page 493 to see a chapter specific to Natilus canoes.

Mr Welsford may already have researched this source, but I wanted to let the Formites know about this source of 3.5Million digital books with free access. Something you might want to see may not be there, but apparently more books are uploaded all the time. For instance I tried to find "The Commonsense of Yacht Design" by Herreshoff and did not find it.

You can read on line or down load in multiple formats. They also invite uploads of books you have scanned, but the quality is very high in the few examples I have seen. FYI, I also came across an amature group promoting designs for doing home scanning of sufficient quality to upload - just in case you might have a book you wanted to share.

Have fun.

Marc

[JotM]

Archive.org is a place through which books can be accessed that are in the public domain (no longer covered by copyrights). As Herreshoff's "The common sense of yacht design" (1946 - reprinted in 1966) is still covered by copyright, it will not be accessible through Archive.org, the Gutenberg project, Google Books etc.

It can still be purchased though, through http://www.dngoodchild.com/divide_fo...and_design.htm at $49.95

Regards,

Jaap

[upchurchmr]

Jaap,

Thanks for the reference, I'll have to check it out. Actually I only know of one little section I want to see, but the price is much better than the used book market.

Marc

[NickW]

Bump!

Brian, have the final plans arrived from NZ yet?

Nick

[Dave Hadfield]

For those interested in sailing canoe hiistory, probably the most remarkable boat, and most remarkable voyage, ever, was Frederic Fenger's upwind voyage through the Caribbean before the First War.

You can read it online at http://www.thecheappages.com/alone_f...lone_01_2.html

The boat was called the Yakaboo. It had a centerboard that could be moved fore-and-aft in its trunk for trim, and no rudder at all.



Dave

[JayInOz]

Sincere thanks for posting that link Dave Hadfield- a bloody marvelous read! JayInOz

[keyhavenpotterer]

Bump!

Brian, have the final plans arrived from NZ yet? Nick

I asked John not to prioritise the plans since I would not be starting until the weather warms up, around about Easter or so. I induced a dreadful attack of sciatica leaning over plywood marking up the bulkheads when working in a freezing cold shed a few years ago. Lost most of that year, so I am very wary of working, leaning over hulls, in cold conditions. Have made good progress selling my Oughtred Tirrik and Solway Dory Shearwater sailing canoe. It seems the UK small boat market has come to life again, and I had strong interest in both boats and they sold quite quickly.

Nick, any chance of a Nautilus in Poole harbour? It would be tremendous to have two sailing together.

Brian

[PeterSibley]

Brian , having suffered quite excruciating sciatica (sufficient to confine me to bed for 6 weeks) but having recovered fully may I suggest a physiotherapist next time . Mine gave me a series of exercises which have completely solved the problem in very short order.

I await the start of your Nautilus build with great anticipation .

[NickW]

Nick, any chance of a Nautilus in Poole harbour? It would be tremendous to have two sailing together.

Brian

Brian - I'm keeping a watching brief on the Nautilus. The weight is going to be the limiting factor for me (roof-racking). It will be interesting to see yours when finished. From your comments about the weather, I assume you're not trying to make Beale Park this year.

Nick

[keyhavenpotterer]

Brian , having suffered quite excruciating sciatica.... may I suggest a physiotherapist next time . Mine gave me a series of exercises which have completely solved the problem in very short order.

Here in the UK the NHS offered me no help at all. Just very strong pain killers, which also made me ill. Help came from advice from a friend who had seen a chiropractor locally. She sorted me, and all the screwed up leg and back muscles.

Brian

[JotM]

Cassy, by George Holmes, is one of the 1800's sailing canoes which inspired our new Nautilus. Cassy is just 40" beam, no ballast apart from a 75 lb plate and carries 104 sq ft of sail. The new one does look more than 40" beam?

I finally got my scanner going again, so I thought I'ld post two scans from a pre WW-II Dutch standard class sailing canoe. I did inquire about the drawings with the present day canoeing association, but I was informed inventory like these drawings did not make it through the war. The scans are from a pre-WW-II book called "De Kanosport" by H.C.A. van Kampen.

Beam is 32" and it sports 82 sq. ft. of sail.

For some reasons I can't get the scans uploaded, so I'll just reference them here:

http://heid0251.home.xs4all.nl/image...eilkanoNBK.jpg / http://heid0251.home.xs4all.nl/image...oNBK_small.jpg

http://heid0251.home.xs4all.nl/image...eilkanoNBK.jpg / http://heid0251.home.xs4all.nl/image...oNBK_small.jpg

[JotM]

Let me just give it one more go.
The lines:

The sail plan:

(The Netherlands, approx. 1935)

[skaraborgcraft]

Glued lap from 4mm ply is going to need either a batten or a fillet and tape behind it. I think the lap would look better, but taped seam can look good,just needs a lot of time spent finishing. Have you made your mind up yet Brian what method you want to use? Cheers

[PeterSibley]

It's time for a bump .... any news Brian?

[Jeremy Burnett]

I come late to this thread which is very interesting. I own a Rushton Princess canoe which we built of clinker ply.I sail it mostly sitting on the floor, ie; 5mm from the water. In gusty conditions one sits on the side deck.As I am now a septuagenarian, and I dont know if thats spelt right, I feel my days of this type of sailing may be coming to an end. However I have also sailed in a Selway Fisher 50/50 canoe, and I found that fast, stable,comfortable, and well suited to cruising.Bill Sergeant the owner of the 50/50 who had cruised it widely, considered the Princess "Terrifying". So personally if I were now looking for a cruising canoe I would tend away from the traditional canoe shape and go for something with a bit more inherent stability.But that may the years speaking!

[footstepfollower]

Any new developments???

[keyhavenpotterer]

From John's office "

John tells me that Nautilus is one of three projects currently being worked on. He'll shout when its done, but for a week or two he has other commitments so
progress will be slow. Richard in JWs office"

Brian

[PeterSibley]

Progress!

[salkaln2]

Glued lap from 4mm ply is going to need either a batten or a fillet and tape behind it. I think the lap would look better, but taped seam can look good,just needs a lot of time spent finishing. Have you made your mind up yet Brian what method you want to use? Cheers

here's a pic of my bufflehead. simple glued lap using 3mm ply. weighs about 50 lbs.

[skuthorp]

Thanks for the updates, that seems to be a very solid mainmast in Cassy, hollow? I am remaking my Mac. mast to something much lighter it was always somewhat oversize.

[footstepfollower]

From John's office "

John tells me that Nautilus is one of three projects currently being worked on. He'll shout when its done, but for a week or two he has other commitments so
progress will be slow. Richard in JWs office"

Brian

Any news?

[WI-Tom]

I keep hoping one day soon I'll come to this thread and find pictures of a build in progress. Not today, sadly... Any news?

Tom

[john welsford]

I keep hoping one day soon I'll come to this thread and find pictures of a build in progress. Not today, sadly... Any news?

Tom

I've had a horrible 18 months or so healthwise, but the last couple of months has seen steady improvement and I'm finding that I can work productively again.
Nautilus is on the list of things to do along with all the other work that has been accumulating over that time. It will take a while to catch up with life again, but it will happen.

John Welsford

[callsign222]

here's a pic of my bufflehead. simple glued lap using 3mm ply. weighs about 50 lbs.

When I hear "Bufflehead" I think Hugh Horton, but this is different, correct? Or same boat with less decking up forward and a cat/ketch rig?

[callsign222]

And where did you come up with that sailplan? Your own design? I like it. Versatile.

[WI-Tom]

I've had a horrible 18 months or so healthwise, but the last couple of months has seen steady improvement and I'm finding that I can work productively again.
Nautilus is on the list of things to do along with all the other work that has been accumulating over that time. It will take a while to catch up with life again, but it will happen.

John Welsford

John,

I'm sorry to hear about health problems, but glad about the steady improvement. Here's hoping it continues. Take care,

Tom

[PeterSibley]

Seconded John , my very best wishes !

Peter

[john welsford]

Seconded John , my very best wishes !

Peter

Thanks guys, I've felt ok several times and overdone things as a consequence then ended up back in a hole again. The doc tells me that if I do what I'm told this time, I'll be sailing again next summer ( Southern hemisphere of course). Thats a real incentive, I've some varnish to put on Spook, the outboard needs a new water pump kit and I've been drawing boats again. Its nice to have a life again.

John Welsford

[Carl Cramer]

Welcome back, John! Please take care of yourself -- We need you!

Best to you, Carl

[NickW]

Nice to hear that you're up and around again, John.

Nick