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Thread: Saint Pierre Dory

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Saint Pierre Dory

    B Fritz, on your other thread I posted the study sheet from Payson of the 23 foot St. Pierre that you are going to build. Here's that same study sheet from Orrell prior to his death. A couple of differences: you'll see his letter head rather than Payson's at the top of the sheet, plus he included a small picture of a completed boat in the lower right. You may or may not have that in your packet from Payson. I always thought perhaps Orrell printed many of his study sheets in light blue to make it more difficult to copy on the old Xerox machines.



    I notice mention of Renn Tolman in one of the posts above; Interestingly he built a S. Pierre from a plan set from Orrell in the early 70's. Here's Orrell's pictures of the St. Pierre Tolman built, below. In his first book Tolman mentions his experiences with the dory. He was very impressed with it's appearance and seaworthiness, but it's slow speed just didn't meet his purposes. He went on to build his boats with similar flaring sides and high bows, but with much lighter weight and the ability to plane.


  2. #37
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    Default Re: Saint Pierre Dory

    Dave, as always you're on point with some more info! The packet I recieved did indeed have Payson's rather than his info at the top. The pictures are always a nice addition to study plans cause it gives you that vision of completion and not just a list of parts and measures. After reading the St Pierre chapter in Gardner's Dory Book I will probably use the offsets for the 'modified' version with its wider beam. I'm also going to have to track down the haul-up system I want to use...or fabricate my own.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Saint Pierre Dory

    Quote Originally Posted by BFritz View Post
    Dave, as always you're on point with some more info! The packet I recieved did indeed have Payson's rather than his info at the top. The pictures are always a nice addition to study plans cause it gives you that vision of completion and not just a list of parts and measures. After reading the St Pierre chapter in Gardner's Dory Book I will probably use the offsets for the 'modified' version with its wider beam. I'm also going to have to track down the haul-up system I want to use...or fabricate my own.
    interesting that all the early power Banks dories here on the north shore ran their prop shaft out through the knee at the base of the transom rather than the bottom of the dory doing away with the need for the haul up gear...

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Saint Pierre Dory

    Quote Originally Posted by BFritz View Post
    Dave, as always you're on point with some more info! The packet I recieved did indeed have Payson's rather than his info at the top. The pictures are always a nice addition to study plans cause it gives you that vision of completion and not just a list of parts and measures. After reading the St Pierre chapter in Gardner's Dory Book I will probably use the offsets for the 'modified' version with its wider beam. I'm also going to have to track down the haul-up system I want to use...or fabricate my own.
    I wonder about that Lunenberg Foundry haul up system. It would be nice to see actual parts and a real instsllation. I suppose the presumption is that it is effective and trouble free because of it's long use in crummy conditions. Who knows without first hand knowledge? Maybe Lunenberg has archives and people who could speak with you?
    What power and RPM's will you be putting to your shaft? Can you visualize fall back positions if you have issues with whatever you install.? I imagine you will want to think about that big heavy rudder which also protrudes below the waterline. Did the fishermen unship that thing at the same time that they hauled up the shaft?

    There were other manufacturers of haul up propeller shafts too:





  5. #40
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    Default Re: Saint Pierre Dory

    From the info I've gleaned from the Mark White book on his St Pierre and The Dory Book, the tiller/rudder was designed for quick un-shipping from its mount. Some rudder profiles I've seen make me think that they used the running up on the beach to help un-ship them rather than bodily hauling them off their mounts while running into the shoreline.

    The motors I'm looking at max out at 34-3700RPM unloaded @ 72VDC so a reduction gear is going into this too. I was worried about the motors being 'too small' for the application but they're rated at similar HP ratings to what a similar diesel would be. If the electric route doesn't work I've a couple ideas to get things going again...other than oars.
    'We the unwilling, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much for so long, with so little that we are now qualified to do everything with nothing.' US Navy Aircraft Maintainers...and pretty much every other mechanic.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Saint Pierre Dory

    There are some other arrangements for haul up shafts and rudders that have a higher part count and complexity than the Lunenberg apparatus. This comes about because they attempt to mount common, small industrial engines in third world boats. Still, they are interesting to look at, and sometimes an idea or two can pop out.

    For example, the Bay of Bengal (BOB) Drive. You can download the PDF from this site:

    http://www.fao.org/docrep/FIELD/006/...0.HTM#Contents

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Saint Pierre Dory

    You're right... That looks a little more sketchy than I'd prefer. Specifically the motor mounts, though in my case of an electric motor and reduction gear it may work better. I'd just have to put a solid flange on the 'pipe' that runs from motor to prop.

    Still looking.
    'We the unwilling, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much for so long, with so little that we are now qualified to do everything with nothing.' US Navy Aircraft Maintainers...and pretty much every other mechanic.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Saint Pierre Dory

    You see this approach more frequently now: http://www.evalbum.com/492

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Saint Pierre Dory

    Conversions are more common but then you still have to work with the drivetrain involved with an outboard or, gods forbid an outdrive... That's a lot of parasitic loss to run water pumps and turn extra gears.
    'We the unwilling, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much for so long, with so little that we are now qualified to do everything with nothing.' US Navy Aircraft Maintainers...and pretty much every other mechanic.

  10. #45
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    Mar 2015
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    Default Re: Saint Pierre Dory

    You might want to take a close look at Beatrice. She has a 60 hp 4 stroke outboard.
    http://www.alphabyte.co.nz/200702/20070225/index.html
    And she can be trailered to store at home.
    Excellent website; http://www.alphabyte.co.nz/beatrice/index.html
    Design was by Nexus Marine; http://www.nexusmarine.com/st_pierre.html
    SImple plywood construction, beamy and proven seaworthy performance.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Saint Pierre Dory

    And... I'm back! So the build is going to happen but, ( I know, insert eye rolls ) Its going to be a 19' St. Pierre with an outboard well. I'm going in for ACL surgery in a week so this build will probably start somewhere around mid-late summer instead of March like I wanted. I'm using Benford's original 19' designs that I got from Instant Boats. I wanted to do a cabin but I'll have to see the actual real estate I have to work with. Based of video's I've seen of the 18'6" Redwings I should have enough for a decent cabin. My other idea is to have an open boat and have a canvas tent for a cuddy cabin as seen on the St. Pierre 'Arrow'. I'm still on the fence about putting in the steps and hardware for a sailing rig. I do have a desire for a sail rig but most of you learned gentlemen say don't do it, that the SP is better as a pure powerboat.
    Someday I'll get back to the 23' or maybe at 26' SP so I can have a longer-range boat of the type but...for now I'm limiting myself based on $$ and health.
    'We the unwilling, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much for so long, with so little that we are now qualified to do everything with nothing.' US Navy Aircraft Maintainers...and pretty much every other mechanic.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Saint Pierre Dory

    Make the well for a long or extra long shaft outboard, and make it long enough that you can tilt the outboard up for going on the beach.

    The aft wall of a well will plough, so much so that blue water will come in over the top, so design a "baffle" that tips forward to about 30 degrees up from parallel to the waterline to push the prop wash back down where it belongs. You can hinge it, but it will work better if it wedges in place and you yank on a lanyard to remove it before tilting the outboard. That's most easily done if the well tapers to narrower aft and the "baffle" sits on a couple of ledgers. Sorry, no pic, just believe me.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Saint Pierre Dory

    Oh, I believe you. I've seen enough designs and layouts that included both baffle OR 'floorplate' (wedges against trailing edge of OB shaft) to minimize the slop.
    'We the unwilling, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much for so long, with so little that we are now qualified to do everything with nothing.' US Navy Aircraft Maintainers...and pretty much every other mechanic.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Saint Pierre Dory

    Another option is to build the well so that it is connected to the transom at its aft end and cut out the transom so that there's no aft wall at all. That may be a better approach, actually.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Saint Pierre Dory

    Depending on if I want to put a cabin onto this hull I may consider that. But it shifts the design a little away from St. Pierre to more of a Carolina style dory if I'm not mistaken...
    'We the unwilling, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much for so long, with so little that we are now qualified to do everything with nothing.' US Navy Aircraft Maintainers...and pretty much every other mechanic.

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