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Thread: Saint Pierre Dory

  1. #1
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    Does anyone recall where John Gardner published the plans for the Saint Pierre Dory aside from in the National Fisherman? As I recall there were three sets of lines in a large format book. One set was taken off a boat by John, the second set was modified for plywood if I recall correctly, and the third was also widened.

  2. #2
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    Yea- in the dory book. He has the offsets for all 3 as I remember. But check this out.

    http://www.boatdesigns.com/cgi-bin/s...6#ULTRA-PIERRE

    The ultra pierre is trailable, very nice dory, also I personally like the way hankinson has a outboard in a well in the middle of the boat.
    Glen-l also has a st. pierre, but it only has a 4 foot wide bottom, and I've read by those that built it, it is too tender.
    I have the dory book and can look up basic measurements if you want, as to beam and so forth on all of them.

  3. #3
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    Yep all 3 are in the dory book.

    L.O.A.- 26ft.-10in. / beam 7ft.-10in /bottom 4ft. -3 in.

    Wider model- beam 9ft.- 0- 1/2in. bottom 5ft.-/2-1/2in.

    3rd. model with slightly rounded sides for lapstrake or carvel. L.O.A.- 27ft.-0 in. / beam 8Ft.-2 in. bottom 4ft.-6in.

  4. #4
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    The Dory Book is available from the Mystic Seaport store by phone or online.

    Wayne
    In the Swamp.

  5. #5
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    Don't forget the Dory Book is also available right here.

    Tad

  6. #6
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    I saw an old book written by Joel White on the construction of a motorized St. Pierre Dory, while at the boat show in Newport. I'm still kicking myself for not picking in up.

  7. #7
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    editted to correct:

    It Building the St. Pierre Dory , by Mark White. It showed an illustarted and photographed building sequence of an inboard powered St. Pierre with a largish cabin, I think setup for fishing.

  8. #8
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    Originally posted by Paul Pless:
    editted to correct:

    It Building the St. Pierre Dory , by Mark White. It showed an illustarted and photographed building sequence of an inboard powered St. Pierre with a largish cabin, I think setup for fishing.
    The boat that Mark White built and which is in his book is a strip planked St. Pierre. Its a pretty traditonal St. Pierre otherwise and not a bad looking boat.
    The Smithsonian Institute has a nice set of plans for the St. Pierre. I think they are about $15
    As for Mark White's book I don't think it is too hard to find a used copy.
    Gary

  9. #9
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    Gardner's book is well worth a look, both for building details and for some history. Also, The Thousand Dollar Yacht , author unknown, about building and sailing a St. Pierre on the East Coast of the US is worth a look.

  10. #10
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    Thumbs up

    Also, The Thousand Dollar Yacht , author unknown, about building and sailing a St. Pierre on the East Coast of the US is worth a look. Auther, Anthony Baily. A great read. Rick

  11. #11
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    I recently bought the Dory Book and was wondering if there is such a St. Pierre design that has non-dory cross planking bottom, carvel sides, and outboard or inboard power with a raised cockpit? I especially like the negative raked cockpit (the cockpit that is further aft on deck than it is above deck.)

  12. #12
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    Also, seeing this picture has led me to believe that this particular dory is being cross planked. And by negative raked cockpit, I am referring to this.

  13. #13
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    Can't recall where I found this photo. To my eyes this is a very nice custom St. Pierre Dory.

    I think that one with the forward rake to the pilot house is based on a Tolman Skiff, bit different than a St.Pierre.



    Tolman Skiff below.



    [ 11-29-2004, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: Dave Fleming ]

  14. #14
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    I think I can (if I go through with this) cross plank the bottom with inch and a half lumber as called for in the Dory Book. I'll run the fore and aft floor timbers to tie everything together as well as the shoe on the outside bottom and carvel the sides. Since the cockpit/cabin isn't heavy in the Dory Book, I think many things can be done to it. We shall see.

  15. #15
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    Lapstrake looks great on a St. Pierre, makes a world of difference.
    Here is another one to look at.

    http://www.nexusmarine.com/st_pierre.html



    [ 11-27-2004, 06:16 PM: Message edited by: RonW ]

  16. #16
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    [ 11-27-2004, 06:37 PM: Message edited by: RonW ]

  17. #17
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    A very pretty boat indeed.

  18. #18
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    What would be wrong with a traditional dory bottom and a cross planked outer (false-replaceable) bottom, also according to Gardner in The Dory Book?

    Huh?

    Wayne
    In the Swamp.

  19. #19
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    Correct me, but dory bottoms are not, traditionally, cross planked. Maybe a nailed on guard? And I'm sorry but Garder got the sheer in his St. Pierre Dories wrong. No one would build that much sheer into a boat, unless they were on a Western River somewhere. Doesn't it look extreme to anyone else's eye? The facsimlie of the plans shown in his book doesn't look that extreme.

  20. #20
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    I agree. Way extreme.

  21. #21
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    I beg to differ, gentlemen. I think that Mr. Gardner got it quite right. Might I humbly suggest that you make a journey to St. Pierre et Miquelon before you attempt to define her traditional working craft from such a distance. If you look closely at the photos below, you will see St. Pierre dories as built in St. Pierre at the turn of the last century. Pay particular attention to the one with the dark sheerstrake in the left foreground of the first photo - I think you will note that it has a sheer every bit as extreme as the one Mr. Gardner has drawn. Note as well that there are many of the same form in the pictures, indicating that the one described is not an aberration.






  22. #22
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    To quote from one of my favorite books:

    The St. Pierre hull is easy and economical to plank, as the strakes line out quite straight for the greater part. The side flare combines with the rocker and the sheer curve to give plank lines with very easy sweeps; some planks are practically straight.

    Form follows medium?

    --Lee

  23. #23
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    The sheers are dead on. Ive seen boats similar in Italy, the bow is perfect. And no, traditional dories don't have cross planked bottoms. The sides also need to be fish-tailed to get the sheer right. How else would you accomidate that extreme taper?

  24. #24
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    Nice pics Michael.

    I made my comment about sheer to add a little spice , though I do think Gardner's boats are drawn to the extreme end of what is a variable in the traditional boats. My eye is happier, and I think the resulting boat probably as good, somewhere in the middle. I could well be wrong, but just on the factor of the extra windage give me a little lower bow and stern. The schooner-carried Bank Dory, also renowned for its seaworthiness, and which these boats basically are, never developed extreme sheer. Maybe because it would have made them more difficult to stack?

    It would be an interesting exercise to overlay drawings and compare Gardner's boats to a range of sheers seen in Newfoundland. The pics posted here show a not inconsiderable amount of variation.

    How many of the traditional boats even exist anymore? Isn't that fishery pretty much extinct?

    Interesting thread, interesting boats. About the most sea-boat for the money ever made. Still.

  25. #25
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    This boat looks right to me.



    This one doesn't.



    I'm trying to decide if there is a big difference, or if it is a matter of other visual cues, or perspective. Nope, the first boat looks right. But it's just in the eye of one beholder.

    [ 11-28-2004, 07:40 AM: Message edited by: Jack Heinlen ]

  26. #26
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    Just to clarify, I don't necessarily think Gardner got it wrong, just that the boat has too much sheer for my taste. But in some views it looks right - probably a matter of perspective.

    [ 11-28-2004, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: casem ]

  27. #27
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    Jack, beauty is always in the eye of the beholder. That you prefer a less extreme sheer in a dory type is perfectly valid, but it does not change the historical record of the type. As with all types of boat designs, the form is a compromise between the multiple demands placed on the boat. In the case of the St. Pierre dory, the ability to launch and recover the boats in heavy surf won out over the desire to reduce windage while underway. Just look at the angle of the beach in the third photo I posted. Note that the line of the sheer aft is just about parallel with the sea. Now imagine what would happen if you lowered the sheer by six inches and tried to push the boat out into two-foot surf. I suspect that the amount of sheer in a boat was at one time varied from boat-to-boat, depending on where the boat owner lived on the islands; those who had access to a calmer launch site probably opted for less sheer because they could.

    Banks dories most certainly did evolve to have the flattest sheer and least amount of rocker possible (for ease of nesting) and still be seaworthy while carrying a heavy load on the North Atlantic. Again, form follows the compromises made to adapt to the required functions, and to a lesser degree, regional and personal preferences. (Shelburne-made dories had more sheer than Lunenburg dories, but they all fished in the same region. Go figure.) Such forms also seem to follow a geographical pattern as well – did you ever notice that sheers on traditional craft seem to get flatter as you go farther south? For a modern example, compare the profiles of pot-fishing boats (lobster or crab) from Nova Scotia to Maryland. Ever wonder why that is?

    As for the fishery that the St. Pierre dories were developed for being extinct, well… Canada has placed a moratorium on fishing the northern cod stocks, but to my knowledge France has not. This means that the inshore fishermen of St. Pierre et Miquelon, who are French and governed by France, are still able to fish cod within the region of the coastal and continental shelf waters that France holds title to. In St. Pierre dories if they wish. However, most current examples of these traditional boats are not as economical as modern Novi-type fishing boats, and are now used for recreational use, much the same as Cape Cod catboats – once commercial fishing boats – are now only built for pleasure. And as the cat boat form has changed to suit its new role and wider distribution, I suspect that the extreme features of the St. Pierre dory that made it so eminently suited for its limited environment will become muted as the type gets interpreted and re-interpreted to suit other climates and sensibilities, such as yours. Personally, I feel that some of the confabulations I see being referred to as St. Pierre dories are as true to the type as an Olympic K1 canoe is true to a Miq’mog canoe, but people are free to misname their creations as they will. But I rankle at the lack of precision in terminology that it produces.

  28. #28
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    Here are some dory pics I took in St. Pierre in July 2004:




  29. #29
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    Interesting pictures, Wilson.

    The strips of canvas along the gunnels I take to be for temporary bulwarks raised when more freeboard is desired? I think Gardner mentions their use, though I can't find the reference just now.

    --Lee

  30. #30
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Wilson Fitt:
    [QB]Here are some dory pics I took in St. Pierre in July 2004:

    What are they using for engines in the dories at St. Pierre nowadays?

    John

  31. #31
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    Alot of them are still using make and break one lunger engines. The slow rpm and high torque alow for steady speeds and durability. While other saint pierres are using small diesels and still other took advantage of the outboard well.

  32. #32
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    Red face

    Sad day indeed when a good dory has to resort to one of those beknighted outboards in an inboard well. Eeeyuk!

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Saint Pierre Dory

    Think I'll ressurect this thread and stir the pot slightly here, see if you guys are still paying attention.

    I'm planning a 23' build based on Gardner's designs and in place of a 'traditional' inboard I plan on an electric motor thats linked to a battery bank, portable generator and solar panels. The motor will drive the haul-up style of shaft and prop associated with the St Pierre. I think its the perfect mix of old wood boat and modern tech.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Saint Pierre Dory

    Quote Originally Posted by BFritz View Post
    Think I'll ressurect this thread and stir the pot slightly here, see if you guys are still paying attention.

    I'm planning a 23' build based on Gardner's designs and in place of a 'traditional' inboard I plan on an electric motor thats linked to a battery bank, portable generator and solar panels. The motor will drive the haul-up style of shaft and prop associated with the St Pierre. I think its the perfect mix of old wood boat and modern tech.
    Remember- without pictures, it didn't happen.
    Good Luck and have fun

  35. #35

    Default Re: Saint Pierre Dory

    Quote Originally Posted by BFritz View Post
    The motor will drive the haul-up style of shaft and prop associated with the St Pierre. I think its the perfect mix of old wood boat and modern tech.
    Where can I see pictures or a diagram of that "haul-up shaft and prop"?

    Found It!

    http://www.glen-l.com/weblettr/weble...tter7.html#lun

    Thanks!
    O'

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