Developing Plans for a smaller "Sjogin"... group commissioning....

[RodB]

Not that I know of....

Hopefully soon.

RodB

[Wayne Jeffers]

"Another construction option for the group", would that be another sail plan, if so, I would vote for a somewhat high aspect lug yawl rig! I've already started my subscription to WC so I don't miss it.

+1

A lug yawl option would make this design more attractive to those of us who must launch and retrieve with each day's sailing.

Wayne

[maarten]

We will see.... in Feb

RodB

Well it was with great anticipation I awaited the feb. issue of watercraft.
Got myself a subscription, read and reread the previous issue.
Checked the watercraft website weekly.
And then this.
http://watercraft-magazine.com/wc_three.html

Not the smaller sjogin.

Still in Limbo for two more months then!?

[John How]

Yes I think Paul is an extremely busy guy these days with great demands on his time. I was kinda disappointed as well but will wait for the next one. The next couple of months will be busy for me anyway so it doesn't really matter.

[RodB]

Ok folks.. the plans for the smaller Sjogin (Sjogin III) are done and are coming out in Watercraft Magazine The following is a quote from Paul Gartside in a most recent email...

I have just got the plans and essay for Sjogin III into Water Craft magazine .... It will be on the newsstands at the end of April. Here's a preview for you. Russ sent a photo of the original Sjogin which will be included in the article.

This version of the plans has a gaff sloop rig and a choice of two glued hull construction methods. They are available now as digital downloads to anyone interested for $50.00...

If there is a serious intent to build and someone wants a different rig, of course I will be happy to take a look at it.
.........

All the best,
Paul.

[John How]

Did he give you a link for purchasing? I looked on his site and didn't find anything. Maybe I'm being impatient, but I am anxious to see them.

[RodB]

If you want the plans you need to just paypal Paul $50 to his email address and be sure to send him an email so he can send you the plans as pdf files attached to the email.

Be patient with me, I will post a photo of the finished design in a profile hull and sailplan drawing so you can decide if you want to order these great plans for a measley $50.

Later tonight I will post the image...

RodB

[RodB]

Ok, guys, here she is... the final drawings on the trailerable Sjogin III with a gaff top'sl rig... So... you guys on the Woodenboat Forum ... you can send $50 via Paypal to info@gartsideboats.com to get the complete plans attached to an email in pdf file form plus the complete construction notes... ie., A set of five 36in x 24in scale prints for the daysaler Sjogin III are available by digital download

I wanted to show some details of the drawings but the complete plans will be published in late April in Water Craft Magazine, and that is one of the reasons we all get this opportunity for such a great deal.

Heres the profile of the sail plan plus some partial sections of the other drawings... (the construction drawing profile and the cross section of one of the construction methods).







The following are excerpts from the construction notes: This design will be available (with complete plans and a solid set of construction notes) in late April, 2012... in Issue #93 of Water Craft Magazine.
The construction notes and general overview are very worthwhile with lots of suggestions as to construction approaches and

...The objective here is a solid, seaworthy day sailer with a traditional feel and good all round performance; a boat that would be fun to build, easy to use and, most important, one that retains some of the style and eye appeal of the original. Nineteen feet was settled on as a good size. As with Sjogin II, there was a range of opinion on the most suitable rig and construction method — that’s always a complicating factor when working with a group — but for the version shown here I have stuck with a simple gaff sloop rig and a choice of two construction methods, one high end, the other much simpler and quicker, and perhaps better suited to the home builder with limited resources...

....For auxiliary power, a pair of long sweeps used standing up, with the boom topped out of the way, is the simplest and most pleasant solution — provided we don’t have more than a half mile to go. There is room to stow a pair of 12-foot oars under the side decks, lashed to the deck-support brackets...

...It would be nice to build this one traditionally. Clinker on bent frames would be a pleasant exercise and perfectly satisfactory on a trailer in temperate climes. However, if you live in Texas or California, or the hotter parts of Australia, a glued method of some kind is the better choice. I’ve shown two possibilities on sheet 4...

This seems a beautiful little boat and I'd say a build in reach of many more "'boatbuilders" than the original 22 foot version.

Many thanks again to Paul Gartside for his talent and expertise in producing plans for another really wonderful traditional style wooden boat.

For those who may not remember... we had 8 guys willing to invest $200 to get these plans developed and that got Paul started.... Paul decided to just develop this design as one of his obligatory designs for Watercraft Magazine and open up the purchase to anyone for $50 to download the plans. This turned out to be a absolutely great deal for all..... Thanks Paul!!!!

Enjoy,


RodB

[John How]

Got my plans this morning and hope to get them printed later today. Just want to say thank you to Paul, Rob, Russ and all others involved in getting this done. I think this will be a very fun boat to build and sail. I hope to start lofting soon.

[RodB]

Just another photo to show her beauty....



RodB

[ian scott]

Got my plans yesterday. Very nice :-D

[kharder]

For people that already have the PDF plans, is the glued lap version still included?

[John How]

For people that already have the PDF plans, is the glued lap version still included?

Mine do not though the initial post here talks about a glued lap version. Not sure why that was dropped but personally I'm not planning on letting that stop me. Seems like really just a matter of sorting out the laps and doing it. The lapstrake drawing in the thread show 8 strakes per side but I think maybe more might be in order.

[andrewdarius]

Have my set. Turnaround was same day, with pleasant conversation within the exchange. Great guy.

I wonder if the Watercraft article will touch on the glued ply version dropping out...

[kharder]

Glued lap seems like the natural choice to me given the Koster boat heritage and trailering. I suppose the only thing you would need beyond the current plans is to know the right ply thickness and to layout the laps.

"I really don't need more plans until the current boat is build, the project list is cleared and I have the build space lined up, but ..." keeps going through my head.

[RodB]

Hello guys... her are some comments from Paul Gartside on building Sjogin III glued ply lap since a couple of you asked. I thought his remarks worth posting here.

...This boat could certainly be build using glued lap plywood. It's not a method that appeals to me for a couple of reasons both of which have to do with appropriate use of materials. It always seems an extravagance to me to mill high grade lumber into veneer, glue it up in presses to make perfect large panels and then take those panels and cut them up into strips again. Seems like we are chasing our tail and incurring a high wastage factor in the process. My feeling is plywood is best used as a panel material.

Secondly, lapstrake construction if done with plywood means a large amounts of exposed end grain. It therefore requires the highest grades of plywood if it is to stand up over time - it's not something you want to do with fir ply, even marine grade. The high grade plywoods are almost all made from old growth tropical timber. The Okoume that we typically see in this application is coming out of the Gabon rain forest in west Africa. I don't feel good about using such material, and especially when we don't need to. We have plenty of good boat building wood in our own backyard. There are plywoods labeled as being from sustainable sources, but I'm suspect and would rather just avoid it where possible. I do use some tropical plywood, there are a few sheets in the boat I am building now, but I try hard to limit it where ever I can.

If builders want to go that way, its a choice between 9mm and 12 mm. The fewer the strakes the thicker the planks should be, so if it is done in say six to eight strakes, use 12mm, nine to 11 strakes, use 9mm. That should be plenty stiff enough with the floors and stringers as shown on the plans...

Heres an image and the comments copied from Paul's upcoming article concerning this image on building a couple variations of a COLD MOLDED hull. The concerns he mentions in the first line refer to the bit more difficulty in achieving the hull shape in building her strip planked (sheathed stripped) (remedy for making it easier is tapering the strips at the ends). The following composite puts together the pertinent info on one image, the hull sections and Paul's comments.




More comments from Paul on cold molding and veneer...

For cold molding I have always cut my own veneer (more like thin planking at 3/16" or so). I just break it down on a 10" table saw using a good blade, a good fence and cutting from both sides. The beauty of doing it yourself is that you have control over thickness and can find by testing once the boat is set up what the ideal thickness is. also vary it between diagonal and fore and aft layers. In your part of the world, western red cedar from the west coast is probably the best choice. For cold molding it is hard to beat.

The shape of this hull is better suited to cold molding than it is to strip planking. Could be done either way, but as explained in the article (quote from it too if you like) the laying on of parallel width strips is problematical.

RodB

[John How]

Thanks for posting this Rob. I will probably use Okoume plywood to build this boat but I will give it some more thought. I do think though that using this plywood to build a boat is more noble than using it to build pretty much anything else. I also live in one of those climates (middle California) where a traditional lap strake boat would be a problem living on a trailer.

[RodB]

John,

I agree with Paul about the Okoume and all the end grain that must be dealt with... and consider... how many people can afford Sapele plywood for lapstrake building. I also like the idea of cutting my own veneer in Western Red Cedar... and keeping the costs down.


Rod B

[StevenBauer]

Sjogin with out laps? Oh, no. I'm not crazy about that idea. Not to mention that I have 12 sheets of 9mm Sapele ply in the garage (that I got years ago for $30 a sheet). Glued lap for me.


Steven

[Ed Armstrong]

John,

When you start building, I'd love to stop by and see some of the process.

Ed

[John How]

Sjogin with out laps? Oh, no. I'm not crazy about that idea. Not to mention that I have 12 sheets of 9mm Sapele ply in the garage (that I got years ago for $30 a sheet). Glued lap for me.


Steven

Yeah Steven, I can't bring myself to do it without the laps either. Not that it wouldn't be a pretty boat with a smooth hull but that's not what attracted me. It was the shape and the laps.

Ed, I hope to start making the building setup in the next couple of weeks so I'll let you know when I have some boat on there.

Rod, I don't disagree with Paul's reasons either but what attracted me was the look of the boat with laps and now with the smaller size, it is doable in gluelap. As for endgrain plywood, there are thousands out there including one in my own shed. Of course the end grain is epoxy sealed which pretty much happens on it's own with this style of building as you clean the squeazeout and the whole hull is primed with CPES before painting.

[RodB]

Some intro comments by Paul on this design:

The objective here is a solid, seaworthy day sailer with a traditional feel and good all round performance; a boat that would be fun to build, easy to use and, most important, one that retains some of the style and eye appeal of the original. Nineteen feet was settled on as a good size. As with Sjogin II, there was a range of opinion on the most suitable rig and construction method — that’s always a complicating factor when working with a group — but for the version shown here I have stuck with a simple gaff sloop rig and a choice of two construction methods, one high end, the other much simpler and quicker, and perhaps better suited to the home builder with limited resources.

Heres a closeup of the cold molded hull with some dimensions of const elements... etc.



RodB

[RodB]

Paul Gartside will be supplying a drawing for those interested in glued ply lapstrake construction in the near future... I will post it here... and It will be available from Paul to those who buy the plans.


RodB

[cprinos]

Watercraft Magazine #93 (may/june). Gartside's full plan series in this magazine has been really cool, have learned a lot even from the boats I would not want to build.




__________________________________________________ _______________
chris

My Core Sound 17 Build thread

[RodB]

Well, now that the magazine is out.... I'll post the full sheets so you guys can see the quality of the plans... be advised that Paul is going to do a drawing for glued lapstrake construction for those who desire it. This is one beautiful little ballasted daysailer... for $50 from Paul Gartside. BTW, the write up on this design is really great... Note: the steam bent oak frames are optional... as you can just cold mold her a bit thicker if you want to forego the frames.













RodB

Edited to add clinker sheet...

R

[RodB]

Ok folks... I received this drawing from Paul today.... for clinker construction...
Paul's comments.... "Here's a sheet with the detail for glued clinker plywood for Sjogin III. If we use 1/2" it will be plenty stiff enough without frames".


So .... now we have three construction methods... all three below.... Clinker, Strip planked, and cold molded .... I'm sure if anyone wanted another sail plan, you could negotiate that with Paul...



Clinker


Closeup clinker cross section...


Closeup Clinker mold...



Strip planked or cold molded...


RodB

[StevenBauer]

Sweet! I'm ready to order now.

Thanks, Rod.



Steven

[Ed Armstrong]

Sweet indeed. If I were going to build a daysailor in this size range, I'd have a hard time choosing between this and John Brooks' Somes Sound 12-1/2. They are very different boats, but I find both very appealing. Unfortunately, given my tendency to get distracted in the middle of a build, I think either (or both) of these boats will have to wait until retirement.

[Arko]

Is this a seperate, supplemental sheet available to those who have already purchased the plans from Paul? Do we just contact him for it?

[RodB]

Is this a seperate, supplemental sheet available to those who have already purchased the plans from Paul? Do we just contact him for it?

Certainly...just email Paul and tell him you have the plans but also want the clinker sheet ... he will send the pdf file to you.


RodB

[RodB]

I thought a comparison of the original Sjogin and the 19 foot daysailer version by Gartside would be of interest....





RodB

[Gerard]

HI folks

So I've been gone for a few months, off traveling, and just saw this last post by Rod. As someone who has both sets of plans I must say the choice of which version to build is quite difficult. I have them hanging side by side in the living room. Wonderful work Mr. Gartside, wonderful indeed.

[RodB]

Gerard... .me too... I have a nice large line drawing of just the boats with the gaff sail plan... hanging up to study.... difficult decision.

RodB

[Hesp]

Very nice Rod.

Is that an inner forestay at the stem head? Does the jib have to tack round the outside of this?

John

[RodB]

John,

IT can't be.... and it is a dotted line on the plans... I'm assuming for layout purposes...

I removed it in the drawings... and will redo the sail later on with seam lines perpendicular... I took my direction on sail seam lines from the Bray website on the traditional boat drawings... I noted on some gaff sails the seam lines were angled as I drew them...but I wasn't paying attention to the orientation to the leach.

Edited to add... The dotted line is a halyard for a storm jib. If you look on the sailplan drawing you'll see a detail of the hardware to support the topmast, under the lower bracket is a block with the note - "S'JIB HALYARD". In the top left of the drawing are the sail dimensions, including a storm jib ( a seamanlike sail for such a small boat).

Thanks,

Rod

[RodB]

Comments from Paul Gartside in a most recent email answering some questions for me....

...to clarify a couple of questions in the WB thread. If you have already bought the plan set for Sjogin III and want the clinker detail sheet, just e mail me and I'll be happy to send it to you.

The dotted line to the stem head is the storm jib set with the normal jib furled. If you rig it that way there will be a spare halyard and the small jib will be set flying (not hanked to a stay) so the jib is not tacked around an inner forestay . The Wykeham Martin furler works fine on the jib but doesn't reef, so we need a separate sail when it really blows.

All the best,
Paul.

RodB

[Hesp]

A thoroughly seaworthy arrangement for such a small craft. I like it.

John

[keyhavenpotterer]

There's also Paul Gartside's Heathen, an 18ft x 7'4" x 3'6" 4100 lbs double ended gaff cutter full keel pocket cruiser plan set in Watercraft 90 Nov/ Dec 2011. Would suit someone looking for a Scandinavian influenced keelboat but with a smaller building space or a sub 20ft mooring. Has a cabin and inboard. Built carvel or traditional clinker on steam bent frames.



Ed

[RodB]

I found this photo on Russ's blog... very detailed for those building the original Sjogin. Lets not forget how awesome this original design is....



RodB

[keyhavenpotterer]

Water Craft magazine with the smaller Sjogin plans comes out tomorrow here in the UK. http://watercraft-magazine.com/



Brian

[SBrookman]

Got my issue this week. Russ and Sjogin got their pictures published overseas! Paul, as always, has a good write up and really plugs this Forum and especially Rod and Russ's effort to get the plans drawn.

If anyone is building one of Sjogin versions, we have a Sjogin page on the TraditionalSmallCraft.com site. I'll gladly post pictures.

I managed to get a 1/4 scale Sjogin II lofted and the frames laminated this winter. But it was such a short and wimpy winter that's as far as I got, now it's time for real boat projects. I will be looking forward to next winter and some inside modeling time.

[RodB]

Steve,

How about getting a larger better photo of the half hull from Austrailia.. That half hull really shows off the hull shape... nice.

RodB

[SBrookman]

It's posted on your Update on developing plans for "Sjogin" thread, post #152:

He's also got some nice Eel photos on his Flickr site.

No other Sjogin builds out there?

[RodB]

I finally had time to redo the colorization drawing of Sjogin III and I have developed a few tricks to do it better. I wanted to replace the two earlier drawings as they were in error in the sail seams etc. Sjogin III is a lovely little boat... I hope someone builds her soon. I know she will be my next project... once I get done with the two currents ones..

I'll likely get this one printed for my wall.



RodB

[andrewdarius]

Hey, that's a nice offer. I'd very much appreciate a high res version.

Through PM...?

[RodB]

PM me your email address and I'll send you the hi res file...it should go thru...

Rod

[RodB]

Bump....

R

[Russ Manheimer]

Thanks Rod. Went to look for this thread the other day and found it buried.

Do you know of anyone building or at least laying down either of the versions? Eric Blake of Off Center Harbor mentioned that someone came up to him with an avowed interest in building one.

The original Sjogin is doing fine. She's staying in this year till late Fall. Once hauled she'll be allowed to dry out a bit and come into the shop at Beaton's after the Holidays for a little TLC.

Here's a current pic:




Updates always (mostly) at Hove To off Swan Point.

[SBrookman]

Russ, I managed to get her lofted, the frames laminated and keel done last winter for a model (1/4 scale). But the winter was too short and mild so that's as far as I got. While not hoping for a severe winter, it would be nice if it would get just bad enough to get me to the basement so I can make some more progress.

[RodB]

Russ,

I'm pretty sure there is a guy in California that is building a glued lapstrake version... perhaps he will give us some details.

RodB