Beniguet Vs Wee Seal

[skaraborgcraft]

I have to confess,when i first came across Beniguet a few years back,it didnt really strike me,yet now,i see potential. As someone who has for years had the work of preparing and rigging and launching boats over 2 tons, it dawned on me some time back that i would be getting more time afloat,and the possibility of travelling to new areas if i got something a bit smaller and a lot lighter. We have had a lot of fun in our open sail and oar boat,but lacking any kind of decking and facilities, a few hours at a time is all my better half is prepared to accept. Thoughts along the lines of a Pathfinder or 6m Whaler with canvas cuddy have been on the back burner,but something like Beniguet has just that more comfort with a wee cabin and would be an ideal weekender. The only other boat that entered into my thoughts was wee seal. I love double enders,so im in a dilemma. Im already having to wave bye bye to my double ended 3 ton Koster,and its likely the Folkboat will be next,so whatever replaces these has a lot to live up to in terms of looks and sailing performance. Having said that,i realise a smaller boat with much less weight is not going to perform anywhere near as well as either of my current boats making headway in 40knots of wind. The majority of my sailing is now done on an inland lake,so i can pick and choose when i go sailing.

The good points i like about both these boats is that the centreboard does not conflict with the interior,both have simple rigs to set up,both are capable of sleeping 2 adults for a weekend and the space for someone to answer the call of nature in privacy(no prizes for guessing whose priority that was). Both are reasonably light and could be towed by any 4 banger with a capacity of 1000kg. The trailer can be twin wheeled(rather than 4) and not overly an expensive purchase. Buying and keeping/maintaing, a braked 3500kg 4 wheel trailer is a surprising expense......not forgetting to metion the vehicle that you need to pull it.

I think the Beniguet would be the better performer in most if not all conditions,but the wee seal would probably take more in the way of heavy weather (not really a criteria). Im not particulary fond of the outboard arrangement on wee seal,even if it is an improvement of an outboard on a bracket. Vivier seems to have mastered good motor wells in the right place. The cockpit on Beniguet seems more spacious for day sailing than that of wee seal if you wanted to take out more than 4 people.

My better half loves the clinker look, and thinks the Beniguet has the spirit,if not the looks of the Folkboat, and Wee Seal the looks of the Koster,she would be happy with either....

So, plenty of wee seals been built,not so many Beniguet. What a nice dilemma to be in......what would you choose and why?

[mizzenman]

Research has proven that contrary to popular belief, double enders are not more beatifull than transomsterned boats. Based on that I would have choosen the Vivier design

[John N]

As you might know, I built and am sailing a Wee Seal so I can give you my two cents. The cockpit is certainly smaller than the Beniguet's would be. OK for two but more would be crowded, I think. The motor well works quite well. It's covered up and out of the way. There is a lot of gurgling and sloshing going on when underway but maybe that is always the case, I don't know. I think the Wee seal cabin would be wider and a bit longer but no higher. The centreboard case is actually very handy. It acts as a step when going into the cabin and I can walk forward on it to get at the base of the mast or tie in a reef. It also is a handy table for when you are inside.
Performance wise, it's slightly better than I anticipated although not fast by any means. It is very dry, I was out out in some fairly nasty stuff a few weeks ago and spray never comes near you. If I had to choose again I would go for the Wee Seal just because I like double enders.

[McMike]

Tough choice . . .

[skaraborgcraft]

John,great news to hear you got the rags up at last...wheres the pics? Was yours the mk1 or 2 version,how much ballast did you add?

Canoe sterns are sexy,personal opinion,dont care what anyone else thinks.

I originally thought the wee seal would be the perfect downsize from the koster,and in the same light as Beniguet would be in comparison to the folkboat. Im lucky enough to have what i think are 2 of the greatest small sailing boats to be built in Sweden, and to have to pick one replacement is going to be difficult. Study plans for Beniguet are on the way from Francois.
Anyone seen the drawings for the yawl rig wee seal? Cheers

[keyhavenpotterer]

Would Clint's new Vivier Jewell make the short list?

[Clinton B Chase]

The Beniguet was the boat that brought me to Vivier a few years ago. My wife and I were wanting to get ourselves into a boat again for family sailing. We nearly bought the plans, but I realized this boat was a big project to manually cut all 32 sheets of ply in my small shop.

Now we will be building Jewell this winter. We'll do the non lug mizzen.

I sailed a Beniguet in Morbihan and loved it. The cockpit had plenty of space for 4 people and space below for kids. It is a dreamy little boat for sure. Having now sailed the waters where Vivier boats are designed to sail, I can say that Beniguet can take quite a bit of sea, probably as much as Wee Seal because of the shape of the bottom. Beniguet is not that flat bottomed and the transom is out of the water at LWL.

Cheers

[skaraborgcraft]

KHP, yes it would.....for some reason i had a cached copy of viviers web site,and Jewel was not on it. If the displacement is right shes a fair bit lighter than Beniguet.
Clint, thanks for the performance nod. Unfortunately,you have to buy a kit with the plans for Jewel,for some reason the plans are not being sold seperately as yet...this itself puts Jewel out of the running at this time,the kits are not being shown as avaliable and i have had no response from a price enquirey........could be on holiday. I look at Jewel and keep thinking of Chebbacco.....which we came very close to building a few years back before buisness issues and a house move put that idea to rest.I still like the chine Chebbacco,but maybe just a tad too big and too heavy,in comparison to what else is avliable(the better half has scratched this and the wee seal from the list of possibles). However, after digging through my design folder she did come up with another possible design...Whisstocks 074 at 19ft, the sizes and weights are comparable to Beniguet,but has a lot more planks to fit,she thinks this is closer in looks to the folkboat, and after seeing the price of $40 for plans (download)
she wonders why Beniguet plans are over 500 euros...try explaining that! Anyway,study plans are coming for Beniguet,and i now have less room on my hard drive after buying the Whisstock plans also. I will comment after further study of both. Cheers

[skaraborgcraft]

Beniguet study plans arrived this morning,just had a brief look, i believe the full plans to be just as comprehensive,so no doubts as to having all information for an easy build,31 sheets of ply in total,very much a ply epoxy boat,but no mention or idea of the amount of epoxy that would be required,i find that omission strange,even an absolute minimum would be a guide.

The whisstock plans are just as detailed,you just have to print them out yourself,or even get the dxf files and have parts cut by cnc. Plans just as detailed,Whisstock plans are fantastic value. Both these boats very epoxy intensive. Whisstock can be built on ply or bent frames.

Poor wee seal may be out of the running,but my better half has pushed for an enquiry into John Welsford 6m Whaler,and we received a mail back this morning with sailing performance figures of capable of 10knots on a reach and 15 knots downwind under spinnaker!! That interests my better half.However,a canvas sprayhood and dodgers would be required for privacy using a chemical head, though i wonder if a small cuddy could be fitted as was done on Pathfinder,will enquire further. Whaler comes in at around 550kg lighter than Beniguet,523kg less than Whisstocks 074,a substantial amount,requiring a smaller trailer and towing vehicle;not to mention cheaper building costs. As a boat to be used primarily as a dayboat and possible weekends, Whaler is starting to cross wakes with Beniguet! Comments? Cheers

[keyhavenpotterer]

SKB,



Simmons and Broome built a John Welsford Whaler. There was a write up of Angie in Watercraft number 68, March - April 2008. They've also built a Wee Seal hull for a client, so might be in a position to comment on the respective merits of these two.

http://www.simmonsandbroome.com/

If you need to look at other adhesives, this place in Bristol sells all of them: its where I get my Resorcinol. UK Winter Grade Resorcinol is available, its now called Prefere. No smell, wipes off with water, small gap filling, more durable than epoxy, unaffected by temp, UV and saltwater. They also have Aerolite 306. Great value.

http://www.alansonsuk.com/

[skaraborgcraft]

Cheers KHP,had been looking on S+B website. I still got a stash of 306,and a heap of balcoton,i never have used much epoxy, and would rather shape,fit and glue wood stringers,than make epoxy and glass stringers. I dont mind sheathing large areas, but filliting is not something i have ever really enjoyed,and the better half cant stand the smell,i cant stand sanding the stuff. we both prefer more wood than epoxy reinforement. UK winter grade.....not sure that will work in a Swedish winter?? Will check it out. Cheers

[keyhavenpotterer]

I've used MAS Epoxy for my present dinghy. It hardly smells at all, and no blushing. Wouldn't use any other epoxy now. SP Systems and West really stink your head off, I wouldn't go back to them. I think West have brought out a new epoxy that works down at very cold temperatures, West G5 is it?

The Fast (Winter Grade) Resorcinol when mixed and applied at 5 degrees C, you've got 1.5 hrs to get it stuck together properly and then need to clamp it for 24hrs. Has consistency of thick melted chocolate. Smell less. No allergy formation and you can wash it off your self and boat with water before it goes off. Its a more durable adhesive than epoxy, just it doesn't do big gap filling or filleting. Chap that built the first Eun Na Mara, used Resorcinol throughout. I started my Shearwater blog a while back and it has a bit on Resorcinol so you an see what it looks like.
http://boats.duncan.com/cyforum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=885

If the design has quite a few epoxy fillets, it's probably easier to just by one lot of epoxy adhesive in quantity for the best price and get on with it, rather than two lots of adhesives in smaller quantities. Large quantities get much cheaper in the adhesive world. I'm very pleased with MAS Epoxy, you can use the stuff in the kitchen, without anybody noticing. They do a slow hardener, and a low viscosity resin too for particular jobs. If there's no filleting or coating, you can use epoxy just for the laps and pretty much use Resorcinol elsewhere and save money and have very durable wood-wood bonds. Because you can clamp the parts tightly, you get a nice tight professional looking black glue line with Resorcinol. If you want a varnished finish it'd be best with clear epoxy though.

5 litres of Winter Grade Resorcinol (Dynea Prefere 4050F/5750 liquid hardener) was £63 + vat in Nov 2009. Delivery is £15 + vat from Alansons, Bristol, UK.

If your in UK and going to Sweden, you might want to buy adhesives and take it in the car. Apart from being cheaper (probably in the UK) they don't like air freighting flammable adhesives.

I can give you a lead on some good Occume (cheaper than Robbins)...Are you keeping this boat on a trailer, or in the water, rig up or rigging each time?

Ed

[skaraborgcraft]

always interested in a cheaper supply than robbins,but have to say they have been giving me good service and discount on "healthy" sized orders!

I got a berth in the local marina,so it will probably most of the time stay there.....but if i find it so easy to launch and rig,i may keep it at home. The berth is actually cheap in comparison to UK,so it would probably only come out if i wanted to take the boat to either East or West coast.

Freighting toxic goods to Sweden is ridiculous,i was quoted almost 300GBP for a 5 litre can of G4 sealer!!

Have never used Mas,heard good reports, have used West,and your right,stinks.Anyone offering MAS wholesale?? Cheers

[keyhavenpotterer]

I get my MAS from here in the UK. You say 30 litres, thats £495 (inc VAT at 20%) MAS Flag (general purpose) and medium hardener. How does that compare to West out of interest? If your leaving it in, I guess you will be epoxy coating, and need quite a fair bit.

http://www.masepoxies.co.uk/kits.asp

Occume can be had for £27/ 6mm, £37/9mm, £50/ 12mm (+VAT) from here. Thats on a £500 order, would be a few pounds cheaper per board for a £1000 order. Its sanded really clean and smooth, but havn't used it yet. Outer veneers are thinner, but so is some Robbins stuff we've had. They do 12mm unidirectional Occume too.

http://www.meyertimber.com/products....ced%20/%20Misc

For a boat that will be worth a fair bit though, it's sometimes best to stick to known suppliers like Robbins, to put a future buyers mind at ease, and make the boat potentially more easily resellable.

I like Beniguet's self draining cockpit design as well as the outboard location. Both good for a mooring. Mast in tabernackle good too. Is the centreboard case just pushing into the cabin, so it makes the step down into the cabin from the cockpit? It seems to have a good arrangement for that too. Our Tirrik has a steel centreboard, goes upwind really well. Is that a Gennaker drawn in outline? Your right, Beniguet is well thought out. Room for a family there. Is the cockpit long enough to lie down on for say a 6ft 'er?


Ed

[esingleman]

Beneguet to me needs a few more strakes on each side to reach it's full aesthetic potential. But it seems to me a very utilitarian boat, and very trailerable. The Jewel project intregues me more though.

[skaraborgcraft]

Top info as always KHP,cheers.I can get West slightly cheaper via trade,but to be honest,i wouldnt mind paying the difference for less smell and no amine blush. I will look into the ply,Robbins stuff has always been good on the quality side.

I was interested to hear Vivier was building his Pen Hir design from Finnish Birch, a plywood that is actually much cheaper to buy in UK than here in Sweden,even from the same manufacturer.

I think the strake layout on Beniguet is a good compromise,especially with plywood construction. The Whisstock 074 design has many strakes and could be built with traditional materials.One of the advantages of ply is the ability to use larger panal sizes.I even find Bolgers chined Chebbacco a nice shape,so beniguet looks even more traditional,if not quite classic clinker. The first Drascombe dayboats were plywood before going over to GRP,and they are very succesfull blend of what works,both for materials and asthetics. Beniguet will never look as smart as a Nordic Folkboat,but would be far easier to build,trailer,launch and rig......its all about compromise.

Waiting to hear back from Mr Welsford on a small cabin arrangement for Whaler. Cheers

[Clinton B Chase]

Beniguet study plans arrived this morning,just had a brief look, i believe the full plans to be just as comprehensive,so no doubts as to having all information for an easy build,31 sheets of ply in total,very much a ply epoxy boat,but no mention or idea of the amount of epoxy that would be required,i find that omission strange,even an absolute minimum would be a guide.

Whaler comes in at around 550kg lighter than Beniguet,523kg less than Whisstocks 074,a substantial amount,requiring a smaller trailer and towing vehicle;not to mention cheaper building costs. As a boat to be used primarily as a dayboat and possible weekends, Whaler is starting to cross wakes with Beniguet! Comments? Cheers

Look closely at weights...I am starting to sound like a broken record trying to get this across, but in France designers must report ISO lightweights of boats. So, ISO includes full rig, anchor, and motor as well as mooring equipment. Is the Whaler weight just for the hull?

ALL FRENCH BOAT WEIGHTS ARE ISO LIGHTWEIGHT FIGURES...THEY INCLUDE MOTOR, SAIL RIG, ANCHORING/MOORING EQUIPMENT....so make sure to compare apples and oranges.

As far as plans costs...the Beniguet comes with 24 sheets and a 50-page building manual. Caledonia Yawl is a 10 sheet plan set. So, that is the difference in price. Per sheet cost is probably pretty comparable.

Regarding the Whaler, I think she is a great boat. A cabin would be nice, but would need to be designed and that will cost something. Seems like a lot of folks who like Vivier boats also like Welsford, which is interesting. To me they look so different, but they are both drawn by highly experience designers who know how to sail. That is an important similarity.

Cheers

[teresajude]

Look closely at weights...I am starting to sound like a broken record trying to get this across, but in France designers must report ISO lightweights of boats. So, ISO includes full rig, anchor, and motor as well as mooring equipment. Is the Whaler weight just for the hull?

ALL FRENCH BOAT WEIGHTS ARE ISO LIGHTWEIGHT FIGURES...THEY INCLUDE MOTOR, SAIL RIG, ANCHORING/MOORING EQUIPMENT....so make sure to compare apples and oranges.

As far as plans costs...the Beniguet comes with 24 sheets and a 50-page building manual. Caledonia Yawl is a 10 sheet plan set. So, that is the difference in price. Per sheet cost is probably pretty comparable.

Regarding the Whaler, I think she is a great boat. A cabin would be nice, but would need to be designed and that will cost something. Seems like a lot of folks who like Vivier boats also like Welsford, which is interesting. To me they look so different, but they are both drawn by highly experience designers who know how to sail. That is an important similarity.

Cheers

You make a good point Clinton, but I think what we are missing here is that we have three different types of weights published. I am pretty sure Welsford's Whaler lists hull weight (300 kg including centerboard). I would not be surprised if fully rigged weight is every bit of 500 kg.

Vivier quotes ISO light weight (fully rigged weight) as 850 kg. This is still quite a bit heavier than the Whaler.

Whisstock lists the displacement AT THE DESIGN WATERLINE as 823 kg. This should be the weight of the boat fully rigged WITH CREW AND STORES.

Based on this, I think one can state that the Whaler is the lightest of the bunch, with a rigged weight probably around 500 kg. The middle weight would probably be Whisstock 074, with Beniguet being the heaviest.

This is not at all surprising if you look at the three boats. All three boats have similar length and beam. The Whaler draws 0.26 m with the board up, and is double ended, which means it is smaller than dimensions would indicate. Whisstock 074 draws 0.3 m with the board up. Beniguet draws 0.43m with the board up.

This is yet another example that overall length is a very poor indicator of anything other than how long a boat is.

God bless!
Wayne

[skaraborgcraft]

All good points about the weight. I didnt feel the need to mention ISO gibberish....but fair comment,even so as stated above, Beniguet definately comes out as the heavyweight.

I dont know if JW already has drawings for the cabin,it was Simmons and Broome in the uk who are offering it as an extra on their build to order whalers....it may be something they themselves have drawn up,either way im still waiting to hear back from them and JW.

As to plan prices,i guess it depends on how much guidence you need. Whisstock plans include everything,and they are exceedingly cheap,but you have to print them out yourself,no great sweat. I dont know about JW plans,but im sure they are well up to scratch due to the amount of great boats that have been built. I dont begrudge a designer his fee,but if you wanted to price plans on displacement rather than amount of paper they are drawn on, would be a better system,paper in itself is cheap, its what information thats on them that matters. Hartley plans are cheap,half a dozen sheets and all the information you need, not everyone needs a 50 page manual,in that respect, Viviers plans per page are expensive...if you want to compare apples to oranges.... Cheers

[JimD]

Wee Seal is a funny looking cartoon of a boat that should only be sailed by little elves from Middle Earth or some similar place. Beneguet on the other hand is a little beauty, visually as perfect as a boat can get. And personally, I would take the Welsford 6MW over either of them.

[skaraborgcraft]

Thanks for you comment Jim. Without wishing to offend anyone who has built or in love with Wee Seal, my better half made a similar comment about seal,being that it appears to be too shrunk and too "toy-like". I cant say I agree 100%, but its a valid point and something i was aware of,if not too concerned,i think shes cheeky (the boat)!

Just to mention on the plan price again, i dont know how much plans are for a Caledonian Yawl,and im guessing Clint wants to put the price of quality plans into perspective,however,the 50 page build manual(if you need guidence) is only any good if you can read French. Francois states that there are other books which will give enough info,and im guessing that would probably be Iains book on plywood clinker boatbuilding as a guide. Anyway, if you can explain to my better half why information to build two similar boats can vary by such a huge margin ie,Whisstock $40 for download or $110 if you want full paper plans mailed, Beniguet comes in at $823. As my better half pointed out,the $700+ difference is a brand new mainsail or probably the entire epoxy and filler cost. Yes,it may be a small % of the total build cost,and no i dont begrudge the designer his fee...... sometimes logic will over rule desire..... These 3 boats still in the running. cheers

[JimD]

Eun Na Mara, on the other hand, is a masterpiece



Just in case anyone gets the idea I don't appreciate Mr Oughtred' remarkable talent.

[skaraborgcraft]

we passed on her due to0 small cockpit,2 centreboards and housing to fabricate,and too many spars. Yes she is a beauty, but not really what we are after. She was my initial choice over seal, but the simpler boat won out.....only to be knocked out by Whisstock and Whaler. Cheers

[JimD]

The Whisstock designs pop up on the radar from time to time but not much light ever seems to get shed on them. The 6MW on the other hand you could not go wrong with and design your own cabin as required. Simple sparring, too. But you already know all this...

[skaraborgcraft]

No worries Jim,what you say is just confirming what the better half already thinks..... i dont think Beniguet will reach at 10knots and do 15 downwind,not that important to me,but capable performance is what gets the better half interested to get on the water,so good performance has becomes an issue. I dont want to wear a wet/dry suit anymore,so a design that is capable of performing well and also easy/relaxed sailing is a target.

Agree that Whisstock boats dont get mentioned too often here,dont know why that is, George has been in the buisness for an age,and his plans are excellent.Maybe a lot of people are put off by so much laminating;backbone structure and frames,all that glueing.......some designs can still be built on ply frames,and i have no doubt you could use solid timber for the backbone if it was to hand.Good strong structures though,and well engineered. Cheers

[skaraborgcraft]

Well, MAS epoxy is around 100 pounds per 30kg MORE expensive than West System at 450 pounds,presently they do not do trade sales.

Have heard back from Simmons and Broome,re;cabin on Whaler,and although there are no plans drawn up,they suggest the cabin that has been drawn for Pathfinder will suit. Not heard anything in reply from Mr Welsford on this, but further reading from old threads suggests he has no problem with the idea,yet talks about fitting more ballast. Interstingly he seems to have told one perspective builder that Pathfinder was a faster and better seaboat than Whaler. Mr Welsford did reply that the use of a polyurethane glue would be fine for bonding instead of epoxy.

Interesting to see that on both Beniguet and the Whisstock design the centreboard has been pulled aft so as not to interfere with the cabin too much. Beniguet as designed is highly reliant on epoxy to keep it together,and as much as we like the style,neither of us are happy to handle so much epoxy. My better half suggested sticking Beniguets cabin profile and rig on a Hartley 18 hull,which took me by surprise.

So,we have decided we can come down from 20ft,to something lighter,but we still need room for a portable head. Having seen the cabin version of Pathfinder,with the centrboard housing taking up a lot of space,i dont see a head going in there,unless you changed the bouyancy tank arrangement,i believe whaler has the same built in tankage system,but with a tight cuddy i would be happy to dispense with it if it can be done without weakening the integrity of the hull structure.

Not sure if to re-title the thread, but wee-seal is out and so to is Beniguet. What we have left is Whaler, or a Hartley hull tricked out with different cabin and rig. Im waiting for Whaler drawings to arrive so i can see how much room and what kind of cabin can go on without spoiling those fine looks. I believe Whaler would be the better performer,is 200kg lighter than a stock TS18 and has the better outboard arrangement. Cheers

[CapnJ2ds]

Research has proven that contrary to popular belief, double enders are not more beatifull than transomsterned boats.

Really?! I'd be most interested to know what 'research' has proven that one object/person/whatever is more beautiful than another? In fact I do not believe that any such thing can be proven. As the saying goes; "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" - how can anything so subjective be proved?

[skaraborgcraft]

i found a picture of whaler with a cabin.....i wasnt impressed. Looked to be the same size cabin that is on Johns Penguin design. Unfortunately i couldnt save the picture. It was up for sale in NZ for $16,000 (NZ), apparently was fitted with a ballast keel like penguin too. Still waiting for Whaler drawings to arrive.

The better half has had a good trawl through cyberspace,my plans collections and books, and asks why something like a Hartley 14 wont do? (the cost difference in a H14 and a Beniguet would be enough to put a new roof on our barn,she is the sensible one) True,its got a big enough cockpit for daysailing and a cuddy big enough to answer the calls of nature,would be a doddle to launch and retrieve single handed etc etc. She then found pictures i had saved of TS16 surfing and some utube vids,and immiediatly wanted to upgrade to the 16. I have had ideas about a TS16 for a while, and although a smart performer,i prefer the looks of whaler,and i dont suppose there would be a massive amount of difference in the build cost,or even build time.We already have plans for TS 14/16 and 21,so we made up some frame templates so the better half can get an idea of the size,we will do the same with Whaler,which looks to be a deeper hull. Cheers

[JimD]

i found a picture of whaler with a cabin.....i wasnt impressed. Looked to be the same size cabin that is on Johns Penguin design.

That sounds far too big. About half that size sounds about right. And apparently a quote from John to a prospective customer:

There is lots of room for a cabin, this is a very big boat for an open boat by todays standards, and the freeboard can be raised by another plank ( about 180mm ) as a launch or motorsailer can carry the extra freeboard without looking out of place. This would mean useful headroom in the cabin and a very protected cockpit with self draining floor http://www.woodenboat.net.nz/Boats/B...oa/Taihoa.html

[skaraborgcraft]

Interesting little article,thanks Jim. We only need a small cuddy,it doesnt even need to be big enough to sleep in. If we cant get the cabin to look proportionally right,having the option to have an extra plank could make all the difference,even if it was just the forward portion,and have a broken sheer,lots of options,still patiently waiting for drawings.....

[skaraborgcraft]

Plans for the whaler arrived today from www.fynecraft.co.uk who posted promptly and plans arrived in good shape here in Sweden from UK. They seem to be doing a special on plan prices for JW boats at the moment.

I will get some sketches done for some profile cabin shapes,and post for opinions. Cheers

[keyhavenpotterer]

There are some new pictures of the Whaler on John Welsford's yahoo forum today. If you join the group you will be able to see them.






http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jwbuil...unt=20&dir=asc

[skaraborgcraft]

Thanks for the tip Brian, that yellow and blue whaler would go down a storm here in Sweden.....very patriotic colour scheme. Cheers

[skaraborgcraft]

here is the best compromise cuddy i could come up with. We only want enough room to sit and answer the call of nature, but there will be plenty of dry stowage in there too. One thing we want is a draining cockpit,but im not sure about raising such a floor to the height we need. Many things to work out before we commit. Again,my better half has pointed out that Whaler will cost more than the Hartley TS16 that is the only other boat that we have considered due to good performance. Im guessing 75% of the time im going to be sailing alone, so having taken the desicion to replace the folkboat,its making more sense to work from the smallest boat that will fulfill our needs,rather than what i would actually like, I still think Beniguet is a great looking boat,but she is actually far more boat than we need. Anyway, heres a pic of whaler and my cuddy sketch. Comments welcome. Cheers

[skaraborgcraft]

no comments after a week.....is it that bad its left you all speechless???

[Rob540]

no comments after a week.....is it that bad its left you all speechless???

Silence on the net can be deafening when you lay yourself a bit bare and get no response. It's one of the biggest drawbacks of blogging I think, especially when you are used to engaging in a conversation -even electronic.
I like the horizontal of your cuddy's profile and I think it will be a very useful space. I've lived with a cabin on an 18 footer, entered over a lovely bridge deck that serves well as a cockpit seat, and a very helpful barrier against sloshing water, but it does also provide a disincentive to go in and out quickly, or to store things in there for transport. Your cuddy will offer shelter without the need always to be completely tucked in there. Legs can be stretched aft along the CB sides. Your crew can relax with a beverage and a book, out of the sun.
My only concern would be that you have sufficient height for the lug downhaul tackle, although it could be taken down through the deck, and run aft.
Rob

http://middlething.blogspot.com

[mp29k]

no comments after a week.....is it that bad its left you all speechless???

I think it is beautiful, and it makes me re-consider the 6m whaler for an upcoming build. I will watch this space with interest, and hopefully you build it.

[skaraborgcraft]

Thanks for the feedback. The downhaul for the sail is as drawn on the plan and i have not moved anything,i think there is enough room for some purchase blocks,and the tail can be fed back to the cockpit either around or over the top of the cuddy using eyes if needed,or just made off on a cam cleat on the purchase itself.Its unfortunate the cuddy restricts access to the foot of the mast and control lines,but one can either extend the sliding hatch so everything is within reach from standing inside the cuddy,or lead all lines back to the cockpit,which can mean having to remove a few lines in order to lower the mast.....no big deal i guess.

Waiting to hear back from JW about outboard arrangement.....but im guessing he has his hands full with Keyhavenpotterers new sailing canoe design. Cheers