Long Point Skiff Plans Ordered

[jahlinux]

Hopefully the pictures are helpful to others. I’m really enjoying building this boat. I can’t wait to get it out on the water. I was able to meet Tom Hill and see his boat. His boat is beautiful! Hopefully mine will do this design justice.

[potomac]

Did you find the plans incredibly sparse? My plans for the Champlain were two sheets and had neither offsets nor a construction profile. Additionally, certain aspects of the build would not have been completable (at least for me) without the video, which is not a part of the plans. The placement of the stem is one such example. He mentions it in the video but gives no placement point in the plans (a construction profile would probably solve this). Also, the plans aren't really useful unless you build in exactly his manner, because the molds are undersized by the depth of the battens. I did find the video, however, incredibly valuable and informative. I recently got Steve Redmond's Whisp plans, which is a much simpler boat and the construction of which should also be simpler, and found those plans incredibly detailed. A few minutes with them and I thought, I could build this boat.

[jahlinux]

When combined with his book and the video I'm very happy with the Long Point plans. The plans are two sheets, but so far everything I've needed has been on the plans. I did have to email Tom and get his recommendation on screw sizes but that's about it. I have decided to use all philippine mahogany instead of pine. I also decided cut the molds back the width of the battens, the plans call for notching the molds, I found it easier to align them that way. Overall I think his plans are very good.

[jahlinux]

The outer stem is shaped and mounted. I recommend using a random orbital sander and not a disc sander. The orbital sander took the wood off plenty fast and produced a nice finish. I had to raise the curve on the stem because I took too much off with the disc sander.

[jahlinux]

I need some suggestions on fitting the rails to the boat. The plans call for using pine, but I’m trying to use Philippine Mahogany. The rails measure 2” x 1-1/16. I didn’t anticipate having such a hard time bending them along the sheer. I tried dry fitting one and I needed to use a lot of clamps and tremendous pressure to get the mahogany to bend and meet flush with the sheerplank. Screws are only used at the stem and stern. I’m worried that epoxy and the lack of screws will not be enough to properly hold the wood.


Should I forget trying to use Mahogany? Go with pine? Laminate them? Use another type of wood?


Just when I thought I was getting close to getting this boat off the jig, the joys of learning how to build a boat.

[willin woodworks]

you need some beefier clamps. Those small quick-grips aren't really strong enough for what you're trying to do.

Stick with the mahogany.

[jahlinux]

I have bigger C-Clamps I can use. I'm just concerned about the amount of force needed to bend the wood. I'm thinking of cutting each board in two and laminating them. I'll lose the thickness of the table saw blade, but I think it will still provide enough strength. Any thoughts?

[Figment]

I don't think the bend is so severe as to require kerfing or laminating. I'd try steaming first.

[jahlinux]

The picture is deceiving. I cannot bend the wood by hand, the jig flexes, and it just feels like something is on the verge of breaking. I have no experience with steaming, but feel I could be successful at laminating. Has anyone else laminated rails?

[Ekko 4]

Start clamping at the bow and work aft, this will be much easier. Never saw the need to steam timber of this size.

[holzbt]

I steamed the rails on my boat. I was using some old dry mahogany that I had and it was too stiff to take the bend without steam. Went on like a wet noodle with a little steam.

[jahlinux]

Glad to hear I'm not crazy. I did not expect to have any issues bending the rails. I'm not set up at all to steam. How long did you have to let the wood dry before epoxying it to the sheerplank? What do you think about laminating rails?

[Popeye53]

I am just starting my LP build. I have the jig built in a big tent enclosure. I built a steam box for the rails and chines. My brother is a sheet metal tradesman and made me a big steam kettle which is plumbed in to one end. I love this thread. I look at it often. Thank you so much for taking the time to take such valuable pictures. How is the build coming? Will you glass the bottom? Love to see how you are getting along. Must be off the jig by now..

Tim
Canada, West Coast

[Dan St Gean]

Glad to hear I'm not crazy. I did not expect to have any issues bending the rails. I'm not set up at all to steam. How long did you have to let the wood dry before epoxying it to the sheerplank? What do you think about laminating rails?

You can build something for steam or just use boiling water and old towels to get it more limber.

[Popeye53]

Did you do that scarf with a block plane?

[andrewpatrol]

Yep wrap it in towels ( on the most curved part ) and pour heaps of boiling water on it. Obviously do it off the boat outside and leave it for a while to cook then more water, than quickly put it on the boat, starting at the stem so you got some leverage to bend it. Failing that I saw somewhere that someone made up a steamer with PVC plumbing pipe and a kettle with a hose. You'd only need to steam the most curvaecous bit. Leave it on the hull for a few days to dry and form to its new shape.

[potomac]

Introducing a curve to long, thin pieces of wood can be achieved by simply wetting them, laying the boards across two sawhorses, and hanging a weighted bucket from the boards between the sawhorses. It will take longer and I doubt you'd achieve the sort of bends necessary for making ribs, but that's not what you are talking about here. Also, when asked about the boat and her construction, you won't be able to say, "At which time I steam bent the longitudinal members...blah, blah, blah." But you won't be burnt either. Maybe we could make up some cool-sounding name for this process- the transverse supported, hydro-saturated, weight-induced, gravitational curvature system of bending. Or some such.

[jahlinux]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Last weekend I decided to laminate the rails, so I have cut them in half and I will be glueing them on this weekend. They easily bend now and I’ll still have a solid board to ensure the sheer line is properly shaped.

[jahlinux]

I am just starting my LP build. I have the jig built in a big tent enclosure. I built a steam box for the rails and chines. My brother is a sheet metal tradesman and made me a big steam kettle which is plumbed in to one end. I love this thread. I look at it often. Thank you so much for taking the time to take such valuable pictures. How is the build coming? Will you glass the bottom? Love to see how you are getting along. Must be off the jig by now..

Tim,
Glad to hear from someone else building a Long Point. You are going to love this boat. I was lucky enough to see Tom Hill's boat and after that any doubts I had were erased. Unfortunately the boat is still on the jig. The rails slowed me down a little, but it really has been a change in my work schedule and other non-boat related activities slowing me down. I hope to have the boat off the jig by the middle of June when I’m taking some time off. At that point I’ll be able to concentrate on the frames and seats. I will be fiberglassing the bottom, 2 layers of 6 oz cloth. Have you started a thread yet for your boat? I look forward to seeing your boat being built. Feel free to send me a message with your email and I’d be glad to try and help with any questions you may have or send additional pictures if you need them. I’m still an amateur, so I’ll do my best, but the the guys on this forum are a ton of help.

John

[jahlinux]

Did you do that scarf with a block plane?

I used a power hand planer to do most of the cutting, then a belt sander, then a hand made sander using a sanding belt from a belt sander glued to a pine board. I had originally made it for carving half hull models, but it has come in real handy. I have used it on the transom, bow, and chines. It takes off a lot of wood, but more controlled then using a belt sander.

[Popeye53]

Hey John,
Thanks for the confidence booster. By the looks of things, if you are an amateur I think I must be a rank amateur. I would like to visit and speak with Tom in person myself, but Vermont is a little far away from British Columbia unfortunately. I loved the look of this boat the first time I saw it - very salty.

[potomac]

Tom is very quick to respond by email. I think the combination of plans, his book, and video make his boats very do-able. In fact, (and this may be a factor in the boat I am building and not the Long Point), there were times I couldn't see the exact location of a part in the plans, or couldn't understand how I would arrive at a spacing (the ribbands come to mind), and the video addressed the subject directly. I'm almost thinking of his plans as part of a system along with the video and book, kind of like the separate components (book, lecture, lab) in a college course, in this case, a course on boatbuilding.

[Popeye53]

Hey John - I was wondering if the boat can get glued to the jig by mistake. Do you use a releasing agent? wax? plastic?

[jahlinux]

I was worried about the same thing. I waxed the ribbands like Tom suggested. I also used packing tape to cover parts of the jig that looked like it would be easy for epoxy to get on. Any area near the chine, stem, and transom are good locations for tape, I even taped the ends of the ribbands at the stem and stern. But, the real test will be when I go to lift the boat off the jig, then I'll be able to tell you if I was successful with my efforts. I always tried to get under the boat and clean up any epoxy from the joints, but there are a few spots I just could not get. Hopefully only a few more weeks and I'll let you know.

[jahlinux]

The rails are now 3/4 of the way done. The starboard side rail is completed. Laminating them worked out well. I have started filling the screw holes with epoxy and micro balloons. What a mess! I have never worked with this stuff before. Some areas are going to take three coats. I did learn the hard way that you what to work with small patches, the stuff starts harding up and becomes difficult to spread. I spent close to three hours sanding and now I’m waiting for the second coat to dry.

[Popeye53]

When you mix your epoxy and filler do you use a board or mix in the pot?

[jahlinux]

When you mix your epoxy and filler do you use a board or mix in the pot?

Mix it in a pot. I just mixed too much. I mixed up a batch using 10 pumps and then added the micro balloons. I switched to only mixing up 3 pumps each of resin and hardener and everything was fine after that

[jahlinux]

Today I rounded the chines and wetted out the two layers of 6oz fiberglass cloth. I put both layers on dry and then put on the first coat of epoxy. You'll need two people, one to spread and one to mix. After the first layer is on and the excess is trimmed off, the remaining coats are really easy. The bow did not come out that good, lots of sanding will be needed. I can finally see this boat getting off the jig.

[potomac]

Really Cool. You are getting there. Congratulations. She's looking beautiful.

[Popeye53]

Wow! Really nice job John. What did you use to trim the excess cloth so cleanly?

[jahlinux]

Just used a utility knife with a new blade. I waiting until the epoxy had set long enough so not to pull at the fiberglass when I tried cutting through it. I think it was about 60 to 90 minutes after applying the epoxy.

[Popeye53]

Awesome. You say you laid both layers of cloth in one go?

[jahlinux]

Yes, I put both on dry and then started spreading the epoxy. It takes a lot of epoxy, I'm waiting to put on the third coat of epoxy now. About another hour and it should be ready.

[Popeye53]

When you attached the rails, did you just glue them or screw to the ply? Hard to screw on without the frames in I was thinking

[jahlinux]

I glued the rails on. I put a screw into the stem and stern. After I get the Breast Hook and Quarter Knees installed I'll add more screws. Today I got the fiberglass all sanded, and the edges all faired. I glued on the second layer of the port rail. Tomorrow I will sand the fiberglass edges and hopefully Tuesday put the final coat of epoxy on the bottom. I'm hoping it will only need one more coat. So far I have three on, some of the fabric got exposed from sanding, so I may need two more coats. Using a paint scraper really helps trimming down the edges of the fiberglass on the sides. I started the morning after applying the epoxy, so it was still not real hard.

Anybody have any suggestions on how long I should let the epoxy on the bottom dry before taking the boat off the jig and flipping it over? I'm thinking 4-5 days should be enough.

[Popeye53]

Can't wait for the next installment!

[Figment]

Anybody have any suggestions on how long I should let the epoxy on the bottom dry before taking the boat off the jig and flipping it over? I'm thinking 4-5 days should be enough.

You're good to go. If it's cured enough to sand, it's cured enough to move.

[Popeye53]

Hey John,

what ratio did you use to scarf your plywood?

[jahlinux]

I used a 8:1 ratio. I only scarfed the sides. I did not scarf the 3/4" plywood used for the bottom.

[Popeye53]

how did you avoid bottom layer overlap? 2 x 8 = 16 so not much room for offset.. three pieces?

[jahlinux]

The bottom of the boat is much less then 16 feet. You have plenty of overlap so scarfing is not necessary. I'll get you some specific measurements and the screws I used in a day or so.

[jahlinux]

how did you avoid bottom layer overlap? 2 x 8 = 16 so not much room for offset.. three pieces?

You will have 15" of overlap. I used #12 1 1/4" Screws. Just don't counter sink them very deep.

[jahlinux]

The boat is off the jig!!!!!!

I rolled it out of the basement, flipped it over with the jig still in the boat, pulled the jig out and then rolled the boat back into the basement. It's great to actually get into the boat.

[jahlinux]

A few more pictures. If anyone wants the jig its free for the taking.

[gstanfield]

Congrats on the flip, she's looking good!

[Oldad]

I like the last picture in the series, only thing missing from that dry sailing look is a purring four stroke sound... are you are humming??

Oldad been there done that

[potomac]

Wow. Incredible. She looks great. Congratulations.

[Popeye53]

Kaloo kalay oh frabtious day he chortled in his joy!

I like the roller Idea. I would have to roll mine out of the tent on dirt but it should be ok with decent size rollers I suppose.

[jahlinux]

1st day of working inside the boat. I trimmed up the inner stem, cut the excess plywood off the sides so its flush with the rails. Started sanding the interior, it's going to take a lot of work. Should have done a better job cleaning up the excess epoxy when I was installing the planking. Next I'll measure for the breast hook, and try and figure out the best way to trim up the transom. It needs a lot of trimming as you can see from the picture.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Great Job... I love this skiff.