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Thread: Cape Henry 21 vs Penguin

  1. #1
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    Here's a couple 21ers its hard to choose between. Dudley Dix Cape Henry 21



    and John Welsford's Peguin.


    Both ply lap, very trailerable, yet heavy enough for coastal hops. And within my means to build which always helps.

  2. #2
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    The Dix boat is great...son is building a 19 and we are currently stopped dead with another son on the Cape charles 31.5 footer.....

  3. #3
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    Paladin, what's the story on the 31.5? I know you've talked about such a boat before but I hadn't realized it has actually come off the drawing board.

  4. #4
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    Yup.....i commissioned the basic boat...frames etc and am (rather slowly now)and finished a lot of the hardware drawings, rudder and other parts...just waiting on the computer generated planks.....

  5. #5
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    I have a weekness for the Cape Henrys ( http://www.dixdesign.com/ch21.htm ) smaller sister, the Cape Cutter 19 ( http://www.dixdesign.com/inspir19.htm ).

    But the Penguin is a beautiful boat ( http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/sto...guin/index.htm ).

    But I am of the opinion that the on-line building support from Dudley Dix (Cape Cutter & Henry) is very good.

    I like the thought that the Cape Cutter is able to fit in my (double) garage, for a few years, during its construction.

    All the best,
    Doug

  6. #6
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    I like both boats a lot, but my vote goes to the Cape Henry...it's lines seem a tad more elegant to me.

    BUT...here's the one I'm going to build someday:



    Nigel Irens' 22' Romilly!

    I must admit that I've become a bit obsessed with it. It just seems perfect to me.

    EKE

    [ 01-19-2005, 01:32 AM: Message edited by: EKE ]

  7. #7
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    Hi EKE,

    Are there any websites on Nigel Irens' 22' Romilly?

    Looks good.

    Doug

  8. #8
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    Doug, Nigel can be found at http://www.nigelirens.demon.co.uk/.

    Brad

  9. #9
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    Here's a photo page of some construction and sailing shots of Romilly:

    Romilly Photos

    Erik

  10. #10
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    Depends on what you are looking for...

    John Welsford offers great customer support as well via e mail and his forum.

    I am going to build a penguin. It has more cabin room...probably the most you will find in a shoal draft boat of this size.

    I am currently building a Sherpa (welsford design) and am really impressed with the way it goes together. Fits together like a puzzle with a lot of inter-locking frames/longitudinals.

  11. #11
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    The DD boats are flush decked so plenty of cabin width but I assume less headroom. I've become quite frustrated that no designers in plywood seem interested in offering standing headroom in a boat under 30 feet but so it goes.

    The DD boats also interlock backbone to frame and offer full size patterns for the planks which ought to speed construction along.

    I wouldn't include Romily in this comparison because of the construction method. Strip plank/cold boats are not on my list.

  12. #12
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    Romily may look stunning, but the cabin is cramped at best. Hang on Jim, one of these years John W. will finish the plans for the 26' standing headroom boat.

    Something to ponder: 30+ sheets of quality marine plywood. $$$$$$.

    Wayne
    In the Swamp.

  13. #13
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    Here is my current favorite trailerable cruiser:

    Trailer Sailer 24
    Specifications:
    Length: 24'-0"
    Beam: 8'-0"
    Draft: 1'- 0" bd up
    4'- 0" bd dn
    Weight: 2500 lbs
    Sail Area: 230 sq ft

    How Much Will She Cost
    To Build & other FAQs

    How To Order

    Questions? Email Us





    Trailer Sailer 24



    The TRAILER SAILER 24 was designed, as its name suggests as cruising sailboat that is easy to trailer. Her unique features include a sail rig that is easy to setup and lower with out herculean efforts or A frames and guy wires to get tangled up. Her main mast is on a tabernacle for one person to raise and lower. In spite of the rigs simplicity, it is well proportioned and will perform well on all points of sail. She has leeboards to provide shallow draft capabilities and another ease of trailering feature; however, down below is where the benefits pay off.
    There is ample room for a family or two couples to spread out. The raised deck also will provide a roomy feeling. Similarly, there is plenty of room in the spacious cockpit. The leeboards are designed to be easy to handle on all points of sail and are very efficient shape for windward sailing. Her raised deck, low rig and water ballast provide very good stability characteristics. Construction is light but strong, plywood and epoxy. She has a strip planked bilge radius to make her faster, less likely to slap the bottom forward in a chop, and good looking too. Build her and trailer her to the Keys, Chesapeake, Maine, San Jan Islands or to your local waters for fun and adventure.


  14. #14
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    Agreed. The TS-24 has a lot going for her. Not too heavy out of the water. Spacious cabin. Ideal rig for ramp launching and rigging. If folks would picture themselves in the cockpit or cabin instead of 50' away looking at the profile (a view you never get when you are actually SAILING the boat), they migt get over the leeboards. The leeboards make the cabin space much more liveable. It is a handful of boat. Anybody up for commisioning a TS-20? That would make a nice family assortment: TS-20, TS-24 and TS-32.

    Wayne
    In the Swamp.

  15. #15
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    Hang on Jim, one of these years John W. will finish the plans for the 26' standing headroom boat.
    Wayne, I think I've finally made my peace with the headroom issue. If Mr W designs me one so much the better but I'm alread thinking of ways to make the world's fanciest boom tent for a good sized gunkholer such as the two boats in the title of this thread.

    As for plywood, half inch marine doug fir is only about $60CAN a sheet which is less than $50US so 30 sheets will still come in under $2000, not even all that large a fraction of the total cost of a twenty something foot sailboat.

  16. #16
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    I might be more interested in the TS 24 if CMD offered a centerboard version but I have a serious aversion to leeboards, even though some folks swear by them and wouldn't sail anything else. Don't like the idea of water ballast, either. Nice profile, though. And no boom over the cockpit creates a lot of possiblities for a tent.

  17. #17
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    Originally posted by JimD:
    ...I'm alread thinking of ways to make the world's fanciest boom tent for a good sized gunkholer such as the two boats in the title of this thread.

    As for plywood, half inch marine doug fir is only about $60CAN a sheet which is less than $50US so 30 sheets will still come in under $2000, not even all that large a fraction of the total cost of a twenty something foot sailboat.
    He's seen the light! Standing up is for outside. I have seen some really nice tent arrangements, usually from the Pacific North Wet or Europe. The Folkboat builders in Europe offer a nice tent that is about the right size. Boom tent, cockpit table, shower. Turn the whole stern into a screen porch/salon/kid's bedroom. Good on you, mate!

    You have time to start a test plank of the doug-fir plywood. Come up with a coating scheme or 3, bend a plank around a form and see if the stuff checks over time. I suppose you could do like the fellow who is building an Eun Mara with fiberglass wrapped planks.

    Did you know that there is a Cape Henry 21 scheduled for a March-April launching in the U.K.? Did we mention the CNC cut kit?

    I'm going to have to hone my sailing skills in order to keep up with you.

    Wayne
    In the Swamp.

  18. #18
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    You have time to start a test plank of the doug-fir plywood. Come up with a coating scheme or 3, bend a plank around a form and see if the stuff checks over time.
    No need for test planks. I already have a fir plywood test boat. I think the concerns over fir are exagerated. Never had any trouble with it, myself.

  19. #19
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    I for one am delighted to hear that. Howsomever, who says today's plywood equals yesterday's plywood, eh? I guess I worry too much? Or Canadian fir plywood is better than US of A fir plywood? All I do know is that I have seen a badly checked plywood boat up close and personal and it was SCARY!

    Only the Shadow knows!

    Wayne
    In the Swamp.

  20. #20
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    To: Landlocked Sailor
    Re: Trailer Sailer 24

    Interesting design. Is there a website?

    Brian Cady

  21. #21
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    My "6 hour canoe" qualifies as scary. It's Canadian Fir marine ply and it actualy had some delam (dry glue line). The checks and telegraphing are brutal, good reason for non gloss paint. Theres gotta be a way of skinning it that doesn't involve FG.

  22. #22
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    Rhino Linings

    Gert brings up what bothers me the most: one boat checks, one boat doesn't. Both built of Canadian fir plywood I assume. What's different guys? Share with us how they are sealed/coated/stored/age/plywood source/etc. Please?

    Wayne
    In the Swamp.

  23. #23
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    Originally posted by gert:
    My "6 hour canoe" qualifies as scary. It's Canadian Fir marine ply and it actualy had some delam (dry glue line). The checks and telegraphing are brutal, good reason for non gloss paint. Theres gotta be a way of skinning it that doesn't involve FG.
    Gert, is your canoe FGed or not?

  24. #24
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    Here is Karl Stambaugh's website
    http://www.cmdboats.com/index.htm?ca...02b2865625dad7
    Rick

  25. #25
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    Originally posted by Venchka:
    Rhino Linings

    Gert brings up what bothers me the most: one boat checks, one boat doesn't. Both built of Canadian fir plywood I assume. What's different guys? Share with us how they are sealed/coated/stored/age/plywood source/etc. Please?

    Wayne
    In the Swamp.
    I have a simple rule with df plywood. If I'm going to use it, I sheath it. End of story. Aside from that I have mostly given up on listening to what other people have to say about it.

  26. #26
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    The 6hr is not glassed except a very light 3" strip wrapping the chine. Glassing wood scares me, I'm afraid of moisture getting trapped in behind it and not being able to dry properly.

    ps I have Grey Seal plans [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]

    [ 01-20-2005, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: gert ]

  27. #27
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    Originally posted by gert:
    ...ps I have Grey Seal plans [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]
    Way to go! And a digital camera? You can't start building without a digital camera. We won't allow it!

    Wayne
    In the Swamp.

  28. #28
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    Here's a Grey Seal


  29. #29
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    This would be my choice for a Grey Seal:




    Grey Seal Yawl

    Wayne
    In the Swamp.

  30. #30
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    Has there been a progress report from MikeP lately?

  31. #31
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    I sent him an email but to no avail; he's probably out sailing.

  32. #32
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    Originally posted by gert:
    I sent him an email but to no avail; he's probably out sailing.
    Lucky bastard!
    So gert, made a decision on the sail plan yet? Inboard sloop? Yawl?

  33. #33
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    Got lots of time to worry about that, one decision at a time. I like the look of the curved spar on the sloop, but a gaff yawl gives more sail options; I've also got to be able to single hand her (easily)
    Mite just clone MikeP's

    [ 01-21-2005, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: gert ]

  34. #34
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    MikeP hasn't posted in over a year. We did see him briefly at the WoodenBoat Show in Newport this summer. I've been wondering, too, how he is doing.

    Steven

  35. #35
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    This is just me, but I really like the St. Valerie design by Phil Bolger.




    But if she were mine, I'd get rid of those rectangular masts and probably change it from a cat-schooner to a cat-ketch. It would just look better, in my opinion. Lightweight, shoal draft, and very much against being capsized.

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