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Thread: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

  1. #1
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    Default Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    Colin Angus has been working on a new camping sliding seat rowboat. a pretty tough ask.

    Well he seems to have managed it and has just released pictures and some words.

    http://angusrowboats.com/blog/





    here, out testing, despite 40km/hr winds a good nights sleep was achieved



    sleeping quarters



    even take a friend



    Plans should be available in the autumn, full size panels are usually available for Colin's designs as well.

    A perfect boat for the Maine Island Trail?

    Brian
    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 05-18-2011 at 12:52 AM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    It would be interesting to see how it compares directly to the Welsford Walkabout which was designed specifically for the Maine Island Trail. Here's one at a recent TSCA row out here set up for rowing only, and with the tent it might be a bit more nimble than the Camper Rowboat...

    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

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    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    Seems to me the oar locks are awfully far aft on the Angus rowboat making it difficult to row in a crosswind.

    Woody

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    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post
    It would be interesting to see how it compares directly to the Welsford Walkabout which was designed specifically for the Maine Island Trail. Here's one at a recent TSCA row out here set up for rowing only, and with the tent it might be a bit more nimble than the Camper Rowboat...

    Although beautiful, being able to take a sail totally changes the idea of a rowboat. Nimble is not the work I'd choose for a rowing/camping boat such as the beautifully crafted Pathfinder. I'm sure it rows well, but if they were to row in company, I'm pretty sure the leaner boat would have plenty of time to rest and wait for the Walkabout. That said, the Walkabout would have more room at anchor under a snug tent.

    Dan
    Last edited by Dan St Gean; 05-18-2011 at 03:14 PM. Reason: Get the darn boat name right

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    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    Not a Pathfinder but a Walkabout. It was designed to take a sailing rig, but from what I've seen it rows much better than you'd expect.

    The Walkabout would be slower than a longer narrower boat, but there is a point of diminishing returns for pulling camping boats where the length, windage and/or weight begins to be more of a limitation than an advantage.

    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Jones View Post
    Seems to me the oar locks are awfully far aft on the Angus rowboat making it difficult to row in a crosswind.

    Woody
    They managed to row their Expedition rowboat, similar layout, from Scotland to Syria, so although it does look well back, it seems to work well in practice. This same boat has also been rowed around Vancouver Island in a record time.



    http://www.angusadventures.com/rowedtrip/boats.html

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    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    im guessing in the top photo while hes sipping his cup of tea,hes also sitting on the dunny? Quite the set up for an oar boat... think i might get "coffin" fever laid up down below though.... interesting all the same. How heavy is it? Cheers

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    An interesting boat, but there's no way I'm sleeping in that coffin unless my life depends on it.

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    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    Interesting. I just sent the link to Jill Fredston, a serious coastal rower who's done extended trips on the northern coasts of Alaska, Canada, Greenland, and Norway.



    The book's an excellent read. She might actually be able to use a boat such as this.

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    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    What an amazing craft. How would she handle a canoe yawl rig for occasional sailing with the outriggers/amas ?

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    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    im guessing in the top photo while hes sipping his cup of tea,hes also sitting on the dunny? Quite the set up for an oar boat... think i might get "coffin" fever laid up down below though.... interesting all the same. How heavy is it? Cheers
    Funny I was wondering where the porta-potty was too! Very well appointed for a rowboat, but I too do not fancy sleeping in such a confined space either. However on a cold rainy winters night? Maybe.
    I have a tent on the Mac and a sort of 'tonneau cover' for heavy weather saling. It's very sweaty under there I can tell you.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats







    The sleeping arrangements look palatial compared to sleeping in a bivi bag. I cycled down through France and accross Spain one year. At the end of the day, I just slept in my sleeping bag in a bivi bag, and didn't bother unpacking my light backpacking tent. Rain on the face was my only concern when sleeping as that would wake me up, and for some reason an irrational thought of some idiot axing my legs of during the night. So for outdoors'ie people who are happy to bivi bag it, that looks good to me. After a long row I should think you'd sleep anywhere, like after a long bike ride...but seriously many go bivouwaking/ bivibag mountaineering up a cliff happily, sleeping on a small ledge cliffside overnight when alpine climbing, not much different seen in that context. Sometimes a man can feel like testing himself not by aquisition of material goods but by testing what he can do without.

    Ed
    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 05-19-2011 at 08:32 AM.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    I love it! What a neat boat.
    George

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    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    It looks like this answers most of the questions I asked on my "cruising rowboat" thread. I think I would prefer to be slightly more 'in' the boat but this strikes a pretty good balance, tending towards the sporty. A tiny spray hood covering the hatch opening would probably make the accommodation a whole lot more comfortable and you could probably extend it back to a tent hoop mounted on the riggers. I don't I would bother with a full rig but a Pacific Action kayak sail would sit nicely on the foredeck ready for downwind courses. I don't think it would be any less nimble than the (gorgeous)'Walkabout' pictured - it is only 14" longer, looks less bulky and is probably lighter.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    It's 19' long and 175 lbs fully rigged.



    Quote "Dropping anchor in a rather exposed harbour. Despite 40 km/hr winds, and sloppy waves, a good night's sleep was achieved."

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    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    Hi Brian, thanks for the link to these folk and their boats!

    Wonderful that they have cracked the self propelled amphibious set-up. A boat big enough to fit a proper bicycle inside when on the water, but small/light enough to tow behind the bicycle.

    Ian

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    Hi Ian, nice to hear from you. Yes, the Expedition rowboat is quite a machine. Put two together and camp aboard as well.





    They also have a lightweight open wherry designed specifically to tow behind a bicycle. Just 16' long - the hull is completed and again plans should come through this autumn. Provisional details looked like this

    http://www.angusrowboats.com/salamander.html

    I think it's great that Colin Angus, as a very experienced ocean rower, is producing these explorative designs.



    Brian
    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 05-20-2011 at 07:01 AM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    Hi all,

    Colin Angus here, the fellow who designed and built the boat. It's great to hear all the feedback. The overall objective was to build a fast, seaworthy camper boat. As you all know, this involves keeping a number of factors in balance. The boat weighs 175 lbs including the sliding rowing equipment and riggers.

    I opted to have a rigid cabin (as opposed to a tent) for a few reasons. Primarily, I wanted something that was pure simplicity - at the end of the day you can simply drop the anchor and be snuggled in bed in five minutes. Gale force winds are no problem, and the cabin is as watertight as a boat. Ample ventilation is provided by a secondary hatch with a large vented opening. The idea of setting up a tent in gale force winds or pouring rain isn't very appealing. Just as importantly, the cabin is part of the decking system for the boat which means only the cockpit can be swamped. The boat is shaped so if it does capsize (very difficult) almost all water is shed from the cockpit in the righting process, with just a couple of gallons to me mopped out.

    There is no reason that anyone would be uncomfortable in the cabin unless they are claustrophobic. There is plenty of space to move around, it is flat and exit is simple and fast. A larger cabin would create unnecessary windage, and an overall less seaworthy boat. The boat is designed for open water coastal cruising and excessive windage can be very dangerous.

    The main hatch is designed so it can "pop up" but I hadn't gotten around to creating the skirting and supports yet. And yes, the idea of putting an awning/bimini over the eating area could work well. We've found a simple way of doing this is to simply use the poles of a basic Coleman tent along with the fly. It can take a fair breeze and assembles/disassembles quite easily. The key is to have secure footing for the end of each of the poles.

    The positioning of the rowing station is slightly aft of centre. If you had no other considerations, the rowing station could be farther forward, but this would eat into valuable cabin space. We've rowed thousands of km with a rowing station in this position with excellent performance. We tested this boat in 30 knot winds and big waves and she performed well at all angles to the wind. It does perform a little better with weight forward, something to keep in mind when packing your gear.

    With regards to overall performance, she's a relatively fast boat. The hull is fairly round with eight panels to minimize wetted area. Overall length is 19' and the full weight is 175 lbs. Beam is 48". Without a direct comparison, I can't say how she would compare with the Welsford Walkabout although I can guess. The Welsford Walkabout is 16'5" is 242 lbs and has a 60" beam. The Welsford Walkabout is a beautiful vessel, but is a very different kettle of fish.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    Hi Colin, great for you to contribute here! I've done some open coast sea kayaking in BC and elsewhere (outside of the inside passage from Bella Bella south to Port Hardy, outside of Vancouver Island from the Klaskish to Tofino).

    I understand you've circumnavigated Vancouver Island in one of these, I'm curious as to how much quicker the rowboat is than the sea kayak when in expedition mode. What are good average and good maximum daily distances you can do on this sort of coast?

    How do you go fighting to windward in a gale when land to leeward is Antarctica or Chile and 5000nm away? Or running downwind in a gale in big breaking seas? I'm sure in these sort of conditions there is a lot of technique needed to row in a sliding seat and keep the power on, speed and control up. I'm curious how it would manage compared to a sea kayak.

    Great to see a truely seaworthy boat that can be handled on shore by the crew. I wonder about it doing the Atlantic or California to Hawaii, it looks like it would be palatial inside compared to what Romer, Lindemann or Gillette had for their trips.

    Ian

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    Great boat! I want one and the summer off with which to use it. Colin, is this the same hull as the Expedition but with a sleeping quarters? Which boat are you using for your VI circumnavigation?

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    I love this boat! I'm a fan of Colin and his wife: they are the real deal. I also think it's hilarious that someone who builds and designs wooden boats, rows them across oceans, and writes books about these adventures is classified by the forum as a "Junior Member." Meantime... well, I won't go there.

    Brandon

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    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott de M View Post
    Great boat! I want one and the summer off with which to use it. Colin, is this the same hull as the Expedition but with a sleeping quarters? Which boat are you using for your VI circumnavigation?
    Looking through specs on Colins website and this thread, the hull of the camper is a bit bigger - 19 ft by 4 ft (48"), whereas the expedition model is 18 ft by 3 ft (35").

    Quote Originally Posted by longrower View Post
    Overall length [of the camper]is 19' and the full weight is 175 lbs. Beam is 48".
    Specs of the Expedition Rowboat on Colin's site.

    Ian
    Last edited by IanHowick; 05-20-2011 at 04:41 PM.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    I suspect the key to keeping the cabin habitable is by making every possibly effort to keep it dry inside - obviously a challenge but some kind of awning over the rowing area would give you a chance to get changed in to dry clothing before nipping down the hatch, even when it is raining.

    It would be interesting to see how this boat would go in the Everglades Challenge.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    The Vancouver Island circumnavigation will be taking place mid June. I'm aiming to beat the current circumnavigation record which is just over sixteen days (done in a kayak). I'll be using the expedition boat and will need to cover about 75 km/day in a range of conditions. The Expedition boats have been tested in the North Sea and Black Sea in a 7000 km expedition we did voyaging from Scotland to Syria. Yes, it does take some skill using a sliding seat in rough conditions - definitely need to work your way up to it.

    We may use the camper boat for a non-stop double circumnavigation of Van-Isle next year. There will be two people in the boat, each taking turns rowing 12 hours a day.

    The hull shape of the Expedition and the Camper boat are quite different. The camper is made from eight panels with a V-bottom. The Expedition is made from five panels and a flat bottom.

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    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    Quote Originally Posted by longrower View Post
    The Vancouver Island circumnavigation will be taking place mid June. I'm aiming to beat the current circumnavigation record which is just over sixteen days (done in a kayak). I'll be using the expedition boat and will need to cover about 75 km/day in a range of conditions.
    Best of luck with the trip and hope you meet your goal. These new designs stimulate the mind and challenge conventional thinking.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    A couple questions:

    Are the buoyancy chambers in the cockpit for flotation only? I don't see any access to them.

    What does your anchoring rig look like?

  27. #27

    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    The buoyancy chambers achieve four things - structure to place rowing tracks, seats when anchored, storage (accessed through round hatches inside sleeping chamber), and buoyancy.

    The anchor system is a lightweight Danforth, chain and 100' line. The anchor is released from cockpit, and when sufficient rode is out, connected to short bow line (visible in pics). A little more rode is released so all tension goes through bow line,. This system enables you to drop the hook without having to go forward.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    Beautiful concept, beautiful boat.

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    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    I love the looks, I love the concept, and I don't mind sleeping in a "coffin." Just one thing though, every time I've slept in a "coffin," I've been amazed and dismayed by all of the condensation, even with good cross ventilation and even on the hottest Puget Sound summer nights. Am I the only one to have this problem???

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    Without a center board, how close to the wind could that sail using a simple loose footed sprit and steering oar?

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    Quote Originally Posted by perldog007 View Post
    Without a center board, how close to the wind could that sail using a simple loose footed sprit and steering oar?
    Someone had to ask...pearldog, I guess you're the winner! This is a pure rowboat that at most woudl sport a PAS or Balogh Twins style rig for downwind work. Of heading even a bit upwind, the oars do that faster than a sail would. The Hawaiians found even on a boat that's a really good sailor, the upwind stuff is best done under power--muscle power in tis case.

    .02

    Dan

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    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    Phil Bolger used to complain that every time he would design a pure rowing boat someone would say, "What a great rowboat, let's see if we can SAIL it!"

  33. #33

    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    There are two ways you can reduce condensation. The first is through increased ventilation, and the other is to line your cabin with closed cell insulation. We've only tested this boat one night for camping. Temperatures dropped to 8 degrees centigrade, and there was no condensation. It was very windy, however, which would have helped with ventilation. Pictured below you can see the hatch used which allows good airflow, yet no rain entry (as long as you're at anchor so the bow points into the wind). If not expecting rain, you can remove one or both components of the hatch to further increase airflow.



    Yes, the boat is not designed to sail, and without speed-sapping modifications will have poor sailing performance. I wouldn't recommend anything more than a simple downwind rig. As Dan mentioned, oars will be much, much faster into the wind. In the Expedition rowboat I have passed hundreds of high-performance sailboats zigzagging into the wind.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan St Gean View Post
    Someone had to ask...pearldog, I guess you're the winner! This is a pure rowboat that at most woudl sport a PAS or Balogh Twins style rig for downwind work. Of heading even a bit upwind, the oars do that faster than a sail would. The Hawaiians found even on a boat that's a really good sailor, the upwind stuff is best done under power--muscle power in tis case.

    .02

    Dan
    Thanks Dan. To me anything closer than dead downwind would worth looking into. ETA - with or without a down wind sail it looks like a very neat concept.
    Last edited by perldog007; 05-21-2011 at 04:58 PM.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

    When are the amas pictured in the one photo used? Where are they stowed?

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