Camper Rowboat from Angus Rowboats

[keyhavenpotterer]

Colin Angus has been working on a new camping sliding seat rowboat. a pretty tough ask.

Well he seems to have managed it and has just released pictures and some words.

http://angusrowboats.com/blog/





here, out testing, despite 40km/hr winds a good nights sleep was achieved



sleeping quarters



even take a friend



Plans should be available in the autumn, full size panels are usually available for Colin's designs as well.

A perfect boat for the Maine Island Trail?

Brian

[Thorne]

It would be interesting to see how it compares directly to the Welsford Walkabout which was designed specifically for the Maine Island Trail. Here's one at a recent TSCA row out here set up for rowing only, and with the tent it might be a bit more nimble than the Camper Rowboat...

[Woody Jones]

Seems to me the oar locks are awfully far aft on the Angus rowboat making it difficult to row in a crosswind.

Woody

[keyhavenpotterer]

Seems to me the oar locks are awfully far aft on the Angus rowboat making it difficult to row in a crosswind.

Woody

They managed to row their Expedition rowboat, similar layout, from Scotland to Syria, so although it does look well back, it seems to work well in practice. This same boat has also been rowed around Vancouver Island in a record time.



http://www.angusadventures.com/rowedtrip/boats.html

[Dan St Gean]

It would be interesting to see how it compares directly to the Welsford Walkabout which was designed specifically for the Maine Island Trail. Here's one at a recent TSCA row out here set up for rowing only, and with the tent it might be a bit more nimble than the Camper Rowboat...

Although beautiful, being able to take a sail totally changes the idea of a rowboat. Nimble is not the work I'd choose for a rowing/camping boat such as the beautifully crafted Pathfinder. I'm sure it rows well, but if they were to row in company, I'm pretty sure the leaner boat would have plenty of time to rest and wait for the Walkabout. That said, the Walkabout would have more room at anchor under a snug tent.

Dan

[Thorne]

Not a Pathfinder but a Walkabout. It was designed to take a sailing rig, but from what I've seen it rows much better than you'd expect.

The Walkabout would be slower than a longer narrower boat, but there is a point of diminishing returns for pulling camping boats where the length, windage and/or weight begins to be more of a limitation than an advantage.

[skaraborgcraft]

im guessing in the top photo while hes sipping his cup of tea,hes also sitting on the dunny? Quite the set up for an oar boat... think i might get "coffin" fever laid up down below though.... interesting all the same. How heavy is it? Cheers

[skuthorp]

im guessing in the top photo while hes sipping his cup of tea,hes also sitting on the dunny? Quite the set up for an oar boat... think i might get "coffin" fever laid up down below though.... interesting all the same. How heavy is it? Cheers

Funny I was wondering where the porta-potty was too! Very well appointed for a rowboat, but I too do not fancy sleeping in such a confined space either. However on a cold rainy winters night? Maybe.
I have a tent on the Mac and a sort of 'tonneau cover' for heavy weather saling. It's very sweaty under there I can tell you.

[keyhavenpotterer]

The sleeping arrangements look palatial compared to sleeping in a bivi bag. I cycled down through France and accross Spain one year. At the end of the day, I just slept in my sleeping bag in a bivi bag, and didn't bother unpacking my light backpacking tent. Rain on the face was my only concern when sleeping as that would wake me up, and for some reason an irrational thought of some idiot axing my legs of during the night. So for outdoors'ie people who are happy to bivi bag it, that looks good to me. After a long row I should think you'd sleep anywhere, like after a long bike ride...but seriously many go bivouwaking/ bivibag mountaineering up a cliff happily, sleeping on a small ledge cliffside overnight when alpine climbing, not much different seen in that context. Sometimes a man can feel like testing himself not by aquisition of material goods but by testing what he can do without.

Ed

[Steve Paskey]

An interesting boat, but there's no way I'm sleeping in that coffin unless my life depends on it.

[Chip-skiff]

Interesting. I just sent the link to Jill Fredston, a serious coastal rower who's done extended trips on the northern coasts of Alaska, Canada, Greenland, and Norway.



The book's an excellent read. She might actually be able to use a boat such as this.

[JDMH]

What an amazing craft. How would she handle a canoe yawl rig for occasional sailing with the outriggers/amas ?

[gstanfield]

I love it! What a neat boat.

[Clarkey]

It looks like this answers most of the questions I asked on my "cruising rowboat" thread. I think I would prefer to be slightly more 'in' the boat but this strikes a pretty good balance, tending towards the sporty. A tiny spray hood covering the hatch opening would probably make the accommodation a whole lot more comfortable and you could probably extend it back to a tent hoop mounted on the riggers. I don't I would bother with a full rig but a Pacific Action kayak sail would sit nicely on the foredeck ready for downwind courses. I don't think it would be any less nimble than the (gorgeous)'Walkabout' pictured - it is only 14" longer, looks less bulky and is probably lighter.

[keyhavenpotterer]

It's 19' long and 175 lbs fully rigged.



Quote "Dropping anchor in a rather exposed harbour. Despite 40 km/hr winds, and sloppy waves, a good night's sleep was achieved."

[IanHowick]

Hi Brian, thanks for the link to these folk and their boats!

Wonderful that they have cracked the self propelled amphibious set-up. A boat big enough to fit a proper bicycle inside when on the water, but small/light enough to tow behind the bicycle.

Ian

[keyhavenpotterer]

Hi Ian, nice to hear from you. Yes, the Expedition rowboat is quite a machine. Put two together and camp aboard as well.





They also have a lightweight open wherry designed specifically to tow behind a bicycle. Just 16' long - the hull is completed and again plans should come through this autumn. Provisional details looked like this

http://www.angusrowboats.com/salamander.html

I think it's great that Colin Angus, as a very experienced ocean rower, is producing these explorative designs.



Brian

[longrower]

Hi all,

Colin Angus here, the fellow who designed and built the boat. It's great to hear all the feedback. The overall objective was to build a fast, seaworthy camper boat. As you all know, this involves keeping a number of factors in balance. The boat weighs 175 lbs including the sliding rowing equipment and riggers.

I opted to have a rigid cabin (as opposed to a tent) for a few reasons. Primarily, I wanted something that was pure simplicity - at the end of the day you can simply drop the anchor and be snuggled in bed in five minutes. Gale force winds are no problem, and the cabin is as watertight as a boat. Ample ventilation is provided by a secondary hatch with a large vented opening. The idea of setting up a tent in gale force winds or pouring rain isn't very appealing. Just as importantly, the cabin is part of the decking system for the boat which means only the cockpit can be swamped. The boat is shaped so if it does capsize (very difficult) almost all water is shed from the cockpit in the righting process, with just a couple of gallons to me mopped out.

There is no reason that anyone would be uncomfortable in the cabin unless they are claustrophobic. There is plenty of space to move around, it is flat and exit is simple and fast. A larger cabin would create unnecessary windage, and an overall less seaworthy boat. The boat is designed for open water coastal cruising and excessive windage can be very dangerous.

The main hatch is designed so it can "pop up" but I hadn't gotten around to creating the skirting and supports yet. And yes, the idea of putting an awning/bimini over the eating area could work well. We've found a simple way of doing this is to simply use the poles of a basic Coleman tent along with the fly. It can take a fair breeze and assembles/disassembles quite easily. The key is to have secure footing for the end of each of the poles.

The positioning of the rowing station is slightly aft of centre. If you had no other considerations, the rowing station could be farther forward, but this would eat into valuable cabin space. We've rowed thousands of km with a rowing station in this position with excellent performance. We tested this boat in 30 knot winds and big waves and she performed well at all angles to the wind. It does perform a little better with weight forward, something to keep in mind when packing your gear.

With regards to overall performance, she's a relatively fast boat. The hull is fairly round with eight panels to minimize wetted area. Overall length is 19' and the full weight is 175 lbs. Beam is 48". Without a direct comparison, I can't say how she would compare with the Welsford Walkabout although I can guess. The Welsford Walkabout is 16'5" is 242 lbs and has a 60" beam. The Welsford Walkabout is a beautiful vessel, but is a very different kettle of fish.

[IanHowick]

Hi Colin, great for you to contribute here! I've done some open coast sea kayaking in BC and elsewhere (outside of the inside passage from Bella Bella south to Port Hardy, outside of Vancouver Island from the Klaskish to Tofino).

I understand you've circumnavigated Vancouver Island in one of these, I'm curious as to how much quicker the rowboat is than the sea kayak when in expedition mode. What are good average and good maximum daily distances you can do on this sort of coast?

How do you go fighting to windward in a gale when land to leeward is Antarctica or Chile and 5000nm away? Or running downwind in a gale in big breaking seas? I'm sure in these sort of conditions there is a lot of technique needed to row in a sliding seat and keep the power on, speed and control up. I'm curious how it would manage compared to a sea kayak.

Great to see a truely seaworthy boat that can be handled on shore by the crew. I wonder about it doing the Atlantic or California to Hawaii, it looks like it would be palatial inside compared to what Romer, Lindemann or Gillette had for their trips.

Ian

[Scott de M]

Great boat! I want one and the summer off with which to use it. Colin, is this the same hull as the Expedition but with a sleeping quarters? Which boat are you using for your VI circumnavigation?

[IanHowick]

Great boat! I want one and the summer off with which to use it. Colin, is this the same hull as the Expedition but with a sleeping quarters? Which boat are you using for your VI circumnavigation?

Looking through specs on Colins website and this thread, the hull of the camper is a bit bigger - 19 ft by 4 ft (48"), whereas the expedition model is 18 ft by 3 ft (35").

Overall length [of the camper]is 19' and the full weight is 175 lbs. Beam is 48".

Specs of the Expedition Rowboat on Colin's site.

Ian

[Faeringman]

I love this boat! I'm a fan of Colin and his wife: they are the real deal. I also think it's hilarious that someone who builds and designs wooden boats, rows them across oceans, and writes books about these adventures is classified by the forum as a "Junior Member." Meantime... well, I won't go there.

Brandon

[Clarkey]

I suspect the key to keeping the cabin habitable is by making every possibly effort to keep it dry inside - obviously a challenge but some kind of awning over the rowing area would give you a chance to get changed in to dry clothing before nipping down the hatch, even when it is raining.

It would be interesting to see how this boat would go in the Everglades Challenge.

[longrower]

The Vancouver Island circumnavigation will be taking place mid June. I'm aiming to beat the current circumnavigation record which is just over sixteen days (done in a kayak). I'll be using the expedition boat and will need to cover about 75 km/day in a range of conditions. The Expedition boats have been tested in the North Sea and Black Sea in a 7000 km expedition we did voyaging from Scotland to Syria. Yes, it does take some skill using a sliding seat in rough conditions - definitely need to work your way up to it.

We may use the camper boat for a non-stop double circumnavigation of Van-Isle next year. There will be two people in the boat, each taking turns rowing 12 hours a day.

The hull shape of the Expedition and the Camper boat are quite different. The camper is made from eight panels with a V-bottom. The Expedition is made from five panels and a flat bottom.

[ShagRock]

The Vancouver Island circumnavigation will be taking place mid June. I'm aiming to beat the current circumnavigation record which is just over sixteen days (done in a kayak). I'll be using the expedition boat and will need to cover about 75 km/day in a range of conditions.

Best of luck with the trip and hope you meet your goal. These new designs stimulate the mind and challenge conventional thinking.

[Rob Hazard]

A couple questions:

Are the buoyancy chambers in the cockpit for flotation only? I don't see any access to them.

What does your anchoring rig look like?

[longrower]

The buoyancy chambers achieve four things - structure to place rowing tracks, seats when anchored, storage (accessed through round hatches inside sleeping chamber), and buoyancy.

The anchor system is a lightweight Danforth, chain and 100' line. The anchor is released from cockpit, and when sufficient rode is out, connected to short bow line (visible in pics). A little more rode is released so all tension goes through bow line,. This system enables you to drop the hook without having to go forward.

[Paul356]

Beautiful concept, beautiful boat.

[Dave Wright]

I love the looks, I love the concept, and I don't mind sleeping in a "coffin." Just one thing though, every time I've slept in a "coffin," I've been amazed and dismayed by all of the condensation, even with good cross ventilation and even on the hottest Puget Sound summer nights. Am I the only one to have this problem???

[perldog007]

Without a center board, how close to the wind could that sail using a simple loose footed sprit and steering oar?

[Dan St Gean]

Without a center board, how close to the wind could that sail using a simple loose footed sprit and steering oar?

Someone had to ask...pearldog, I guess you're the winner! This is a pure rowboat that at most woudl sport a PAS or Balogh Twins style rig for downwind work. Of heading even a bit upwind, the oars do that faster than a sail would. The Hawaiians found even on a boat that's a really good sailor, the upwind stuff is best done under power--muscle power in tis case.

.02

Dan

[perldog007]

Someone had to ask...pearldog, I guess you're the winner! This is a pure rowboat that at most woudl sport a PAS or Balogh Twins style rig for downwind work. Of heading even a bit upwind, the oars do that faster than a sail would. The Hawaiians found even on a boat that's a really good sailor, the upwind stuff is best done under power--muscle power in tis case.

.02

Dan

Thanks Dan. To me anything closer than dead downwind would worth looking into. ETA - with or without a down wind sail it looks like a very neat concept.

[Rob Hazard]

Phil Bolger used to complain that every time he would design a pure rowing boat someone would say, "What a great rowboat, let's see if we can SAIL it!"

[longrower]

There are two ways you can reduce condensation. The first is through increased ventilation, and the other is to line your cabin with closed cell insulation. We've only tested this boat one night for camping. Temperatures dropped to 8 degrees centigrade, and there was no condensation. It was very windy, however, which would have helped with ventilation. Pictured below you can see the hatch used which allows good airflow, yet no rain entry (as long as you're at anchor so the bow points into the wind). If not expecting rain, you can remove one or both components of the hatch to further increase airflow.



Yes, the boat is not designed to sail, and without speed-sapping modifications will have poor sailing performance. I wouldn't recommend anything more than a simple downwind rig. As Dan mentioned, oars will be much, much faster into the wind. In the Expedition rowboat I have passed hundreds of high-performance sailboats zigzagging into the wind.

[perldog007]

.....


Yes, the boat is not designed to sail, and without speed-sapping modifications will have poor sailing performance. I wouldn't recommend anything more than a simple downwind rig. As Dan mentioned, oars will be much, much faster into the wind. In the Expedition rowboat I have passed hundreds of high-performance sailboats zigzagging into the wind.

Thanks Colin, I was thinking of a down wind rig. Have used a crude home made one fashioned from heavy clear plastic ( visiqueen? I found it dumped at roadside ) and 1"x2" trim from'n the Lowes on my inflatable kayak.



Definitely not designed for sailing, Slower than a bag of rocks, Handles like trash bag filled with packing peanuts. But with a very crude sail and a little paddle power is rather entertaining coming down a lake in the evening after a day of fly fishing. We usually have winds in the 7-15 knot range most spring/summer/fall days.

Your camper is the boat I have been looking for. Even if there isn't a satisfactory way to put a downwind rig on her.

My GLD is great for exploring our slow tidal rivers and the bay, but not a good boat to sleep on. I was thinking of a sail boat next but I really wanted oar auxiliary and a cabin. Mutually exclusive for serious rowing until now. Great job. I'm eager to see plans available.

One more stupid newbie question, is there a realistic way to make the sliding seat a fixed seat on the fly? Sorry but the only boats I've rowed besides aluminium outboard skiffs are my bolger box and GLD.

[Bobcat]

When are the amas pictured in the one photo used? Where are they stowed?

[perldog007]

The more I read about this design the more brilliant it becomes. I had wanted to build a sailboat next, but this boat makes a lot of sense for me. There is a lot of skinny water near me, but shore camping is tough.

With the outrigger pontoon thingies looks like a killer fly fishing platform.

Much nicer than the two sail and oar auxillary options I was considering. Looks a bit beyond my build skill but with full size patterns all things are possible. Maybe.

[Rob Hazard]

Looks to me as though the ventilation issue could easily be addressed. What I would want in this design is a canvas dodger and some simple arrangement to turn that large footwell into a sort of easy chair, so you had a place to lounge out of the wind and savor a dram before turning in. Two pieces of ply supported by cleats in the seating geometry of an Adirondack chair would do nicely. I can picture myself snuggled in with a hot cup of coffee in one hand and my trusty Nikons in the other, watching sandpipers work over the mud flats. Ah, Nature!

[longrower]

The pontoons, table and cooking counter are stored in the sleeping quarters when underway. The pontoons are not beneficial for rowing, as they create a lot of drag and the increased stability is not required. When anchored, however, the stability is a great asset when you're walking all over the boat, and sitting on one side or the other. They keep it very stable. Yes, Perldog, it would work well for flyfishing. You can easily stand in the cockpit and cast the line, and you can still row, just not as fast, to move around on the water.

A dodger would work well, but the key would be to have it disassemble or fold down easily when underway. It would allow you to keep the hatch wide open even when it's raining and offer some shelter to the cockpit. On cold nights, you'd still want want to shut the hatch, with a smaller opening to maintain air flow.

[perldog007]

I'm not the man for the job, but it seems like a rower/crazy person/adventurer could make some noise in the watertribe events with this boat. I'm crazy and adventurous, just not much of a rower ( yet ). I just want one for running away from home now and then. Definitely going to get a set of these plans.

[Bobcat]

The pontoons make sense as used. Stability when you need it.

I have camped a lot and compared to a small tent, the cabin here is spacious. It would be a great place to lie in bed and list to the rain on the cabin top just above

[maraíocht]

Looking forward to when the plans are available! I love my adirondack guideboat, but it's far from ideal for sleeping aboard! Nicely done, Colin!

[Daniel Noyes]

If Angus can sleep in that little cabin I think a similar set up might work for sleeping two, one on either side of the centerboard trunk in my Ipswich Bay 18' design... hmmm

[IanHowick]

Would a sliding rigger - fixed seat set-up work for these boats?

What are the pros and cons versus a sliding seat set-up for rowing in open/rougher water?

Ian

[Clarkey]

I don't think that there is much doubt that sliding rigger can be faster but I am not sure about its application in large/heavy boats. The force driving the sliding rigger boat is effectively transferred via the rower's backside rather than the oar crutches, which could prove wearing after a long day.

[Rob Hazard]

I know there are people who swear that sliding riggers are faster and superior to sliding seats, but the fact remains that they have never caught on with the rowing public, whereas lots of other bright ideas that were originally banned in various competitive sports, have been adopted. If they are faster, why isn't there a sliding rigger class in races like the Blackburn Challenge?

[Dan St Gean]

I know there are people who swear that sliding riggers are faster and superior to sliding seats, but the fact remains that they have never caught on with the rowing public, whereas lots of other bright ideas that were originally banned in various competitive sports, have been adopted. If they are faster, why isn't there a sliding rigger class in races like the Blackburn Challenge?

I'm no oarsman, so I wonder the same thing. It makes sense why they have an advantage as the CG remains the same and the rowing motion doesn't cause the boat to pitch as a result of the CG moving fore and aft. Perhaps beacuse there's a big rowing competitive sanctioning body that still doesn't want to allow it?

Dan

[Rob Hazard]

Sorry, Dan, I can't buy that. If sliding riggers were truly faster, some hotshots would build boats to use them and blow the older sliding-seat boats out of the water. That way they'd force the sanctioning bodies to recognize them, the same way the multihull gang forced their way into the yachting world. Given today's obsession with the newest, fastest, lightest, highest tech gear, I can't believe that some bunch of blue-blazered fuddy-duddies can hold back a truly faster means of rowing a boat.

[Dan St Gean]

Sorry, Dan, I can't buy that. If sliding riggers were truly faster, some hotshots would build boats to use them and blow the older sliding-seat boats out of the water. That way they'd force the sanctioning bodies to recognize them, the same way the multihull gang forced their way into the yachting world. Given today's obsession with the newest, fastest, lightest, highest tech gear, I can't believe that some bunch of blue-blazered fuddy-duddies can hold back a truly faster means of rowing a boat.

Buy it or not, history has spoken. Sliding riggers were/are faster--hence their banishment. Yachting has a long and rich history of squashing innovation--Amyrlis (sp) anyone? Not for 80 years did other competitive multi's surface again, and even then Choy and others had to run "unofficial" entries into the transpac. Nah, I don't buy it.

Dan

[Clarkey]

Buy it or not, history has spoken. Sliding riggers were/are faster--hence their banishment. Yachting has a long and rich history of squashing innovation--Amyrlis (sp) anyone? Not for 80 years did other competitive multi's surface again, and even then Choy and others had to run "unofficial" entries into the transpac. Nah, I don't buy it.

Dan

Much like cycle racing where recumbents were much faster - and immediately banned. Small-wheeled Moultons were superior in the velodrome - and immediately banned.

Perhaps the most charitable explanation is that sliding riggers demand less exquisite technique to go really fast and thus devalue the sporting contest?