Gartside 116A

[JoshuaIII]

Hooray, another real boat thread to watch. After the demise of Mr Cat boat man ( sorry, senior moment, cant remember his name ) its great. Actually, ALMOST makes me feel like I'm cheating with my lapstrake and epoxy mix. Love the beautiful pics from your wife, Joshua

Andrew
Damn, still cant get that name, help, I'm insulting him. Anybody know what happened? What a thread that was

Thanks Andrew, Is thread popup so I guess he will be awaking soon

[JoshuaIII]

Working working working, seems like it will never end!
I finally have done the transom Framing which is bolted to is final place, and another floor on the sternpost. I am doing those final step as I am going higher with the planking. Here a picture that give a bit more idea of the dimension:


The lucky price we had on this planking stock was great, but I do have to plan a lot ahead to make fit every planks on that 8" wide stock. I am looking forward to reach the topside planks which will be lot smaller... Those are in average 4.5", a bit wider the last foot aft.

[JoshuaIII]

I would like to give a more clear view of the transom, but the shop is not big enough... The stern post still need to have 1/4" removed for fitting the covering of the transom.





The floor at mid ship above the ballast are not installed yet, small plywood are there temporary.

[wizbang 13]

Oh Here is Your build!!
I see what you are up to!
Better You than me wink wink.

[JoshuaIII]

Oh Here is Your build!!
I see what you are up to!
Better You than me wink wink.

Hey Wiz!
Yep that's all I do on my days... The computer laying on the band saw that's why I am always online
But between you and me...as we just want to get back cruising, and seeing that's you've build your frames in 5 days compared to mine...I start to be a epoxy believer

[Capt Zatarra]

Beautiful just beautiful!! Capt. Z.

[euro]

Stunning, Stephane, truly inspiring. How do you make that hull look so warm?

P

[headonz]

Great work Peaceful,nice shot of the stern post/transom,very arty !!

Savor every moment ,you maybe only doing this once in your lifetime ,none of us really know.

[trango]

Very inspiring! The planking looks very solid! Do you plan to add an inboard?

/F

[JoshuaIII]

Thanks guys!

Euro: It's because it's a temporary building, we salvage a few windows but there isn't much to really have light, so I work with a big spot all the time, which give that color to the pictures.

Trango: To make a long story short ... no! We been cruising for almost 10 years without engine, we stop to build a new home that suit more our kind of cruise. Also one a bit bigger to have a place for a kid, which is underway (My wife pregnant).

Thanks again for the nice comments!

[Capt Zatarra]

Hay Stephane I did not realize (or maybe I have forgotten) you had been cruising without an engine! That is really cool. We cruised with two different boat for awhile that were engineless. One, a Colin Archer steel schooner, had a large outboard on his dink that he would tie off on the side of his boat to motor into places he could not sail to, like the anchorage in San Diego bay, where we met for the first time. The other a wooden Channel Cutter named Seawolf that was small enough that it could be sculled from the stern or it could be rowed from one side and the rudder was used to ballance the one sided thrust. What did you do when you needed to move in windless places? We used our engine more for charging our batteries then we did to get anywhere. We used it so little that we considered leaving it out of the rebuild and becoming engineless as well. What I have decided to do instead is go SSSSHHHH (I have to say this very very quietly becuase it gets some sailors very worked up) electric! The elco ep7000 is pretty high on my list right nowI already have the right size generator to run it coniously if I need too. And I should be able to make more electricity then I use, off of it's regeneration capability, if my past behavior reflects my future performance. Keep up the good work, and keep posting those great pictures. Capt. Z.
P.S. When is the new little sailor scheduled to arrive?

[JoshuaIII]

Hay Stephane I did not realize (or maybe I have forgotten) you had been cruising without an engine! That is really cool. We cruised with two different boat for awhile that were engineless. One, a Colin Archer steel schooner, had a large outboard on his dink that he would tie off on the side of his boat to motor into places he could not sail to, like the anchorage in San Diego bay, where we met for the first time. The other a wooden Channel Cutter named Seawolf that was small enough that it could be sculled from the stern or it could be rowed from one side and the rudder was used to ballance the one sided thrust. What did you do when you needed to move in windless places? We used our engine more for charging our batteries then we did to get anywhere. We used it so little that we considered leaving it out of the rebuild and becoming engineless as well. What I have decided to do instead is go SSSSHHHH (I have to say this very very quietly becuase it gets some sailors very worked up) electric! The elco ep7000 is pretty high on my list right nowI already have the right size generator to run it coniously if I need too. And I should be able to make more electricity then I use, off of it's regeneration capability, if my past behavior reflects my future performance. Keep up the good work, and keep posting those great pictures. Capt. Z.
P.S. When is the new little sailor scheduled to arrive?

Hey Capt!
Nice to ear another sailor that sailed without a engine... They are getting rare. This is one of the reason we cruise on small boat, as it easier to manage without Engine which cut the expense a lot and let you cruise longer. The Contessa 26(Last one) was a great boat, I would tack upwind in a narrow channel filled with Fisherman just delightful to sail.

We had some really light wind sail, drifter mostly, which was filled at wind you can't even fell. At our last atlantic cruising that we did backward (North Atlantic, East to west) we dived down under the trade winds and get stuck in light winds for weeks(At least it was not upwind again...). I manage to make a long bowsprit with the spinaker pole and put 3 headsails up and still cover some miles.

For marina manoeuver we did have a sculling oar at the end. We didn't have problem of no wind until we been into the Mediterranean sea.. Which is really windless, nothing to play with, really, the major amount of time.

On the other hand my boat before (A trimaran 36ft) was terrible without engine, beam reach was the maximum he could go. I remember tacking 3 days in front of the inlet waiting for wind to change, or had to change destination when at 1 miles of the goal because wind shift... Terrible! Maybe that's why I've found the Contessa so great after!

For this boat we asked the designer to draw some extensive light sails to move without engine, the design was also modify to add 500 pounds of ballast to compensate for the engine and give more sail power. Sculling oar will also be done, but as you know, it's only when you to some sailing test that you really know what you need for it.

I've meet lot's of boat in Europe with Electric Engine, it's getting popular in that area. I personnally think it's changing a engine for another one, but I think those have some advantage over a big diesel. Specially if you are the kind of sailor that sail, and use the engine for tight manoeuver like it is suppose to be.

The little one arrive first week of April, we wanted to finish the planking before working on that project but it happen All good, will be fun to cruise with a little one onboard.

Damn... That's a lot of writing

Looking forward for you next update of your boat too!

[trango]

Congratulation!

I've just returned to my job from my parental leave - it's a fantastic adventure!

Regarding the motor, I'm moving in the other direction. I started sailing with an engine-less 22 ft cruiser - without any prior experience of sailing. It was a challenge to learn just from books, but since I didn't have any options but to sail, I was pushed into learning how to handle the boat. Now the situation is different, lots of weekend cruising where a motor can be the difference between getting back to work in time or not going sailing at all.

/F

[JoshuaIII]

Now the situation is different, lots of weekend cruising where a motor can be the difference between getting back to work in time or not going sailing at all.
/F

You will not complain of being stuck sailing, with a good excuse to miss work! Well as long your boss is also a sailor that can understand

[JoshuaIII]

As we plan to leave with a boat really basic but free of debt, we plan to don't install electricity at the start.
Saying so we just won on ebay a pair of navigation oil lamp old but in good order and all copper.

Meanwhile working on the bildge stringer, those will be done by tomorrow. Will take pictures then...

I almost closed the transom before putting those in... I would have lack a way to slide them inside!

[euro]

I almost closed the transom before putting those in... I would have lack a way to slide them inside!

.. Always wondered what those great cabin windows on the stern of Schooners were for...

[JoshuaIII]

Pictures!
Here some when I steamed the plank and clamp it into place.
As you can see there is a nice curve to it:





I love this shot:

[JoshuaIII]

Then the bilge stringer,
I've use qtr sawn white oak, because I had some left from the framing and getting low on the BC Fir for the planking.
Glued with Resorcinol with nail that will go into the scarf in case the glue fail. Those scarf are 2ft long on the final shaping.



Once glued, I've planed it and cut it at is final shape:




Close up of the joinery:

[RFNK]

Well, I don't know how I've been missing your thread Stephane but I have until now! The boat looks great and your shots are excellent! Thanks for posting for all of us!! Bon chance! (I hope that's the right thing to say as it's about all the French I know!)
Rick

[J.Madison]

Looking great! What are you using for a spiling board?

[JoshuaIII]

Rick, Thanks well you are not too late the boat isn't in the water yet Your French is plenty good enough for me to understand it! I can't say always the same for my English!

Jonathan, Thanks I found at the local hardware store some white pine 16ft long. I choose those clear, and cut them at about 1/8" thick (A bit thicker in fact). After a few planks I put them in the thickness planer as it's getting hard to see which marks are the good one (This is why they are a tiny bit more then 1/8). I use hot glue gun to stick them together, easy to glue part into it and easy to remove but strong enough so it doesn't fail when you manipulate it.

[Lucky Luke]

Then the bilge stringer,
I've use qtr sawn white oak, because I had some left from the framing and getting low on the BC Fir for the planking.
Glued with Resorcinol with nail that will go into the scarf in case the glue fail. Those scarf are 2ft long on the final shaping.

Salut Stephane

Beautiful progress there (and great to hear that a "little Stephane" -or Stephanie??- is also "progressing"!)

I am a bit surprised, though that you scarfed these bilge stringers (gorgeous looking oak there too!) on the width and not on the thickness...?
I guess that, on top of those nails you have put in the scarf, you are going to use copper rivets going through the whole width, no?

Keep on the good work

Luc

[RFNK]

I thought the scarf must be two dimensional (so to speak) - they're scarfed on the thickness and then you've also scarfed on the width to avoid a vertical edge - is that right?
Rick

[Larks]

I love this shot:

agreed, it'd be a nice photo to hang on board when you are finished and sailing to remember the build.

[JoshuaIII]

Salut Stephane

Beautiful progress there (and great to hear that a "little Stephane" -or Stephanie??- is also "progressing"!)

I am a bit surprised, though that you scarfed these bilge stringers (gorgeous looking oak there too!) on the width and not on the thickness...?
I guess that, on top of those nails you have put in the scarf, you are going to use copper rivets going through the whole width, no?

Keep on the good work

Luc

Hello Luc,
nice to see you around

We don't know the gender of the little one yet, and we don't want to know so... Mystery until then

Yes, I understand that you are surprise... I actually thought to do it the other way at the start too. Then I read a part in pardey book that make sense, in the fact to have the join in shear instead of in tension(As in tension the feather edge may give up rather easily under pressure when forcing it to place). This way you can also add mechanical fastener in case of glue failure.

This did make sense to me at the start but I may be wrong too!
After sleeping on it I thought to put some #14 screws 4" long into it to help to stay there at each end (The bilge stringer is 5" at the widest), but I also have on hand some 1/4" copper rod so I can make rivets too... Suggestions?

Will see I am giving it a try... I am putting the mechanical fastener today, will take pictures of it.

[JoshuaIII]

Talk about a sh*t day...
Ok let's start with the start...

First the screws was soon elimated, the oak is so hard that they were broking inside.
Then the rivets (Or nails) where doing 1/64" Smaller then the diameter the hole, I can't hammer those rivet (1/4") in, they all get stuck and bend before half way home. If I drill a hole 1/64" bigger I can put it with my hand through both side.


Anyway,
Hammering hard, made the fresh resorcinol fail at 3 scrafs(Out of 4), which I suspect came from the low humidity of the shop compare to the high humidity where the wood is stored White oak shrinking and making the glue fail (As it shrink more on the lenght).

So.... those bildge stringer will be cut in pieces and be reuse somewhere in the boat...

I think I will go with traditionnal stringer for the boat, overlap on top of each other and on a good lenght and just bolted with the BC Fir we have for the planking. No glue, no chance of fail.

[headonz]

Stephane,
This is a positive .Far better to have a sh#t day in the workshop than somewhere in the middle of the Pacific or Atlantic , yes ??

I have a question.
When planking up from this stage ,will the planks pull out any un-fairness in your framing or will the planks kink in or out ??
Does carvel planking method fair the hull as you proceed ??

[JoshuaIII]

Stephane,
This is a positive .Far better to have a sh#t day in the workshop than somewhere in the middle of the Pacific or Atlantic , yes ??

I have a question.
When planking up from this stage ,will the planks pull out any un-fairness in your framing or will the planks kink in or out ??
Does carvel planking method fair the hull as you proceed ??

Hi Headonz (What's your name by the way, sorry if you told me before).
Yep, it's quite some waste of good wood and time but I feel not too bad about it.
I've cut another stringer today, out of BC Fir. I made them overlap for about 4ft right in the middle and will put about 10x 1/4" bronze bolts into them, bedded in red lead and bolted to the frames/planks it should go nowhere.

When I've put them into the boat too look around, I was quite happy as I just noticed the huge amount of curve I need to force them into. There is no way this(Or the oak) would have gone there without steaming, and I do not trust any glue that you steam for 1 hour. Now the way it is done, I can steam the forward part and clamp it in place, then doing the aft part and bolting them together. They over lap on 3 frames.

For the question of fairness, the BC Fir is quarter sawn and really stiff. It does pull out unfairness or make you see it quite fast that there is something wrong. But I check for fairness and fair all the frames before each plank with a 3/4"x3/4" batten I have, this way when you backout the planks for the curves of the frame it fit the first try.

I need about 2 try to fit a plank sometime 3. Once the fairing of all the frames are done, I backout the curves of them on the planks with a profile gauge, then cut the caulking bevel. The fit againt's the frames are 99% good at the first time, second fit it's adjusting the edge again't the lower plank.

So yes we can say that carvel fair the hull as you proceed with stiff planks, I think it would less be the case with softer wood and flat cut like cedar. I did discover 2 frames out of alignment because of the planking.

[Farfalla]

Stephane, I have been following this thread for a long time while I was lurking around here so I'm happy to be able to thank you for the great photos and all the info.
You seem to be enjoying it all, even the s%%t days.

Sophie.

[JoshuaIII]

Thanks Sophie,
Well there is day that we enjoy most then other
I see that a bit like offshore sailing, one day at the time, you do what need to be done, heave to when it's bad and enjoy the nice day when they pass until the time you spot the goal.

Worked a bit on the Bilge stringer number 2 today.
This is what it will look like, the bead look a bit weird but it's the camera :




The overlap which is 4ft long which will be bolted, the camera really look to have issue with the grain of the wood and the curves of the cut... :


The 5 cents tool to make the bead:

[headonz]

Hi Headonz (What's your name by the way, sorry if you told me before).
Yep, it's quite some waste of good wood and time but I feel not too bad about it.

I dont mind being called headonz ,my real name only causes confusion.

Ten years from now you wont even remember the broken timber ,only how well it all turned out in the end.

[SchoonersRUS]

Excellent work, Stephane. Very impressive. I learned a lot from it.

[JoshuaIII]

Hi,
so the weather is too bad to drive and work (Snowstorm), so I've uploaded some pictures...

So...
Me in my thinking chair... the most important tool in the shop!


And the other side of the boat:


I am working on finishing a few things to install the bilge stringer. There is also that bronze floor at the last pair of frame that I am building and would be done by tomorrow. Then, as we received the Iroko for the transom, will finish that and after resume planking.

[peter radclyffe]

looking good

[JoshuaIII]

Tuck plank in!


Rivets look a bit off on the picture... But they are 90degres from the plank...

[JoshuaIII]

looking good

Thanks Peter....

[Breakaway]

Bravo! Really enjoying this.

Kevin

[Farfalla]

All of the photos are great Stephane but clearly you are not the photographer in the family!

I'm enjoying this thread a lot.
When I showed the pics to my partner, these two were chosen as the most important.
Apparently a good "thinking chair" is as important as a good bandsaw!
At least that's what I've been told!
You look like you are enjoying the job.

Sophie

[Larks]

So true Sophie, LF Herreshoff advocates a good "moaning chair" as an essential item in any good workshop.

[JoshuaIII]

Thanks Guys (& girl)... Yes the chair was the first tool to enter the shed and probably the last to leave!

Sophie, nannn I am not a good photographer at all... Actually before I've meet my wife I was a bit against pictures, proof is 8 years cruising alone I have about 15 pictures 2 years cruising with my wife about 500 of them

It's all good, specially since she is in vacation for a while (Pregnant) it give her more time to enjoy doing it.

These days I would say the wood stove is the second most important tools... It was -20Celcius in the last few days... Believe me it's hard to work well with frozen fingers

[RFNK]

I like working in what we call cold weather here. That would be about 12 degrees C or so. I can't imagine working in the freezing conditions you guys have over there. I've never experienced anything like it. When I'm working on my boat over the next few months, I can expect temperatures of around 25 to 40 degrees.
Rick

[JoshuaIII]

Rick, that's exactly the temperature I heat my shop to... Between 10 to 15, which is comfortable while working. The issue is a bit the gluing when needed to be done I have to rig heating lamp over the area.

February here is the worst, where it go at around -40 Celcius and sometime lower with the windchill... When you think about it that'S 80C difference with you...I always find funny this time of the year because at every breath you know exactly where your lungs as you feel the cold air filling them.

Anyway all that to say it is not too good for boats We hope it will be our last winter here... And hopefully go a bit south to finish the boat up...

But it's nice for snowshoeing & trapping! Last winter just behind my shop:

[trango]

Rick, that's exactly the temperature I heat my shop to... Between 10 to 15, which is comfortable while working. The issue is a bit the gluing when needed to be done I have to rig heating lamp over the area.

February here is the worst, where it go at around -40 Celcius and sometime lower with the windchill... When you think about it that'S 80C difference with you...I always find funny this time of the year because at every breath you know exactly where your lungs as you feel the cold air filling them.

Anyway all that to say it is not too good for boats We hope it will be our last winter here... And hopefully go a bit south to finish the boat up...

But it's nice for snowshoeing & trapping! Last winter just behind my shop:

You seems to have the same climate as we usually have. Unfortunately, this winter is a real disappointment, no snow and the temperature above freezing - It's a pain because the absence of snow makes everything so very dark. The sun barely touch the horizon but without any snow to reflect the weak light you barely notice.

Anyway, as always, your build is looking very nice! Must be good to work with the planking!

/F

[JoshuaIII]

Trango we do not lack snow here I can tell you that! 2 snow storm last week...-20C right now outside (Without the wind)...

I was working on the planking again today and in the last 3 planks I had check developing... The 2 first one I was able to find a work around it, but today I had to replace a plank ready to go because of it... Took me a while (I know I am slow sometime)... To figure out what was the issue...

The board are frozen! When I hit with a hammer on them to put them final they crack as can't stand a blow.... Darn like if it was not hard enough... I warm up the area when I work there, but most of the day the temperature is freezing...

Trying to deal with our wood supplier for a new stock of planks... They only have some 8/4 which bring a lot of waste! I am looking for some 6/4 or in the worst 12/4 which I can saw in 2.... Rift sawn BC Fir... If somebody have some numbers for the East coast I would appreciate it.

[RFNK]

Frozen planks! Amazing to me! I think if I ever had the opportunity to stay in Canada or Sweden etc. I'd have to abandon just about everything I know about woodworking and start again! I guess it's all just run of the mill to you guys but, apart from a very occasional frost, freezing temperatures are pretty much unheard of on any coast in Australia. We have a few low mountain areas with snow in winter but no snow anywhere else except for a very occasional winter storm when we might see patchy snow in some inland areas. Of course we're lucky in that way but I do find the images from your parts of the world very beautiful and I would like to spend at least one winter of my life in a place with snow!

Rick

[Farfalla]

Hi Stephane,
nice backyard you have!

Great place to ski and snowshoe but I'd be giving the trapping bit a miss, but that's me.
Cold enough to crack the timber when you work. I heard similar stories years ago when i visited friends in Montana in winter.
You get those sort of temperatures sometimes ski touring in the Alps but not what i'd want to be working in that's for sure.
I admire your perseverance.

Sophie.

[JoshuaIII]

Well when you are born in it... You came to enjoy it
It's actually quite fun working outside in winter gear, then enter with a nice fire going on and a stew cooking on top of it... Really enjoyable. The only thing I don't really like about the winter here it's the sunlight... Sun is down and hided at 15h30 (3h30pm) these days... Quite short day.

Sophie, well trapping is good for us. We do not like to buy commercial made food... We grow most of our food and hunt our meat... But we eat meat only once or twice a week so don't need much.

Here a picture for those in the south of the beach in front of the shop (Sea up front, forest behind) during winter. Yes this is sea water(Actually the Atlantic Ocean) and yes this is ice on top of it.

[Farfalla]

Stephane,
that looks Cold!! Being so close to the sea like that must make it a really damp cold compared to the relatively dry cold you get in the high mountains.
I think there was a small language bump. When you mentioned trapping I thought of fur trapping which is what I was commenting on not subsistence hunting which is what you later described. I understand that and was in no way trying to be critical of it. Not being reliant on the "store bought" world is an admirable thing.

Sophie

[JoshuaIII]

No problem Sophie, this is why I put a big BEWARE in my signature

We begin to see you more often around... And I know I won't be the first asking it... But it would be nice to see the project you are working on!

[Farfalla]

Hi Stephane,
A couple of people have asked about Farfalla. She is in pieces in a shed and has been for quite a while waiting for a major push to get a lot more done. Unfortunately life and finances have intervened and she has sat that way for a few years but hopefully things will come together soon. I am the labourer and when work starts in earnest the photographer so I hope I do as good a job as your wife is doing on your project. Actually the shots she has taken and the use of the lighting are really good and they've given me some ideas for the future. Please thank her for me, but I guess everyone who enjoys your thread owes her a big Thankyou! A job well done!
Once that happens then I'll start a thread.
Actually I'm joking with Don on his boat thread, he's asked the same question and wants more details. I've told him that will be purely reliant on the continued stream of pictures of his project so I can't really answer your questions in anymore detail otherwise I lose my bargaining chips with him.

Sophie