Rebuilding my 50' schooner in Nicaragua

[Capt Zatarra]

Howdy Folks
This is my first time to ever post on the WBF, (or any forum for that matter) so if I commit social forum phopa be gentle with me! So here is my story....in 2003 I bought a beautiful classic one off full keel wooden sail boat, carvel planked Alaskian Yellow Cedar on steam bent white oak frames, with Austrialian gum deadwood, DougFir keel, Blue Spruce spars, teak over ply decks, ipe cap rails and stanchions, mahogany interior etc. 17,000lbs ballast (14,000lbs iron punchings and 3,000lbs of concrete) 2 tons of which was internal. So it was love at first sight for me when I went to see her for the first time and then taking her out for our first sail, well let's just say She spoke to me! Any way we (myself, wife and daughter) bought her, moved aboard and started living and cruising full time. The survey, when we bought her said that there were 6 cracked ribs but that they were not bad enough to worry about but keep an eye on them and if they get bigger then repair them. In 2006 we were sailing south on the pacific about 125 nm off shore running from the mother of all storms, it fought up to us at about the 42nd latitude. without boring you with a lot of blow by blow details, I tell you that I spent 28 hours none stop at the wheel, we were doing 14.2knot under bare poles before I took measures to slow us down. We took a tremendous pounding. Rising over waves that were higher then our mast the boat would fall off with such force it tore out most of the cabinets in the boat! The 49,000lb test shakle on the bobstay shattered, I consider myself really blessed that the rig did not come down. Anyway more sea miles a few more storms and a few years later and I hauled out in Nicaragua to replace some planks that got toredos above the bottom paint #%^*+ (mental note raise the boot stripe) redo the bottom paint change the zincs, general maintenance and replace the garb'd that had started to leak. Well when we pulled off the first plank we found every single rib we uncovered Was broken!!! Pulled more planks ...more broken ribs!!! Some broken in 2 and 3 places, all on the hardest part of the curve. I pulled the garb'd and the base of all the ribs where they mortised in to the keel were desiccated away. I decided that I had to replace every single rib. So I waited till the rainy season was over and then hired a old local shipwright (73yrs old) named Juan to work with me and together we plowed into the project. I decided not to go with steamed bent ribs and to double the size of the new ribs, and make them out of Laurel. I hired a wood cutter and he and Juan went into the hills where Juan could show him the curved trunks that would work for making grown ribs. We could get between 4 to 8 ribs to a tree trunk. And for all the traditionalist out there we cut every one with a hand saw and an assortment of adz. Juan can work me into the dirt with an adz. So far we replaced all 128 ribs, I found rot in the 15' long keel horn, we replaced that with Cortez ( Ipe) and we have replaced all the floors with Ipe as well. The deck was teak over ply, of which we discovered that a lot of the ply was bad and had spread rot into the fore deck beams. (a previous owner had done an ugly repair job on several spots on the deck and then painted some sort of thick rubber bumpy coating on the teak sealing it all in and that had allowed blisters of rot to form undetected till they were huge!) We have replaced all the quarter deck beams even though they were good because I it to eliminate the dog house, and now I have an open quarter deck. (one of the modifications I have been planing for a while, a much safer platform to work on the mainsail and a great place to hang out at anchor).
So here is where I can use some help....Nicaragua has some fantastic woods used in boat building. Here is a list of some that are available to me. I'll list them, common spanish name / english name (scientific name) family name.

Caoba /......(Swietenia macrophylla King.) Meliacaea
Cedro macho/ Royal Mahogany(Carapa guianensis) Meliacaea
Cedro real/ ...(Cedrela odorata L.) Meliacaea
Tamarido/ ....(Dialium guianense Aubl.)Caesalpinaceae
Cortez/ Ipe (Tabebuia guayacan Hemsl.) Bignoniaceae
Guanacaste de oreja/....(Enterolobium cyclocarpum Griseb.)Mimosaceae
Guapinol/ Brazilian Cherry....(Hymenaea courbaril L.) Caesalpinaceae
Guayabon/....(Terminalia amazoniaExeli.) Combretaceae
Guayacan/....(Guaiacum sanctum L.) Zygophyllaceae
Jagua/...(Genipa americana L.) Rubiceae
Kerosan/...(Tetragastris panamesis O. Kze) Burseraceae
Laurel/Laurel...(Cordia Alliodora Ruiz) Boraginaceae
Leche Maria/....(Symphonia globulifera L. f.) clusiaceae
Santa Maria/...(Calophyllum brasiliense Camb.) Clusiaceae
Mora/...(Clorophora tintoria L.) Moraceae
Nacascolo/....(Caesalpinia coriaria wilid.) Caesalpinaceae
Nambaro blanco/...(Aspaidosperma megalocarpon Muell.) Apocynaceae
Quebarcho/...(Pithecellobium arboreum L.) Mimosaceae
Roble/...(Tabebuia rosia D. C.) bignoniaceae
Sebo/...(Virola koschnyi Warb.) myristicaceae
Teca/ Teak...(Teciona grandis) verbenaceae

So do any you folks out there have any experience with any of these on your boat or in your shops. Good results or bad. I was thinking of using teak or Santa Maria for the hull planks.(Pardey in his book Hull Construction says that you can add 20% to the boat value if you plank in teak.)Brazilian cherry for the king planks and deck edging (10' wide) and the deck itself with teak. Caoba for the stanchion and roble for the gun'l cap rail.
Thanks for any input and now I'll try to down load some pictures of what I'm doing.....Capt. Zatarra

[JayInOz]

We'd love to see some pictures Captain! Can't help with your Nicaraguan timber species, but "Australian Gum" would be about the same as saying "American Wood"- a big number to pick from
Welcome to the forum! It's one of the greatest assets you could ever have at your disposal. JayInOz

[Thad Van Gilder]

Hey capt,
There is teak and there is teak. I use quite a bit of teak of central America, but its not the teak Larry Pardey is talking about. That is old growth asian teak.

-Thad

[Capt Zatarra]

Jay-Australian gum is just the term the builder used when he made a note on what woods he used in the original build, all I can tell you that it is as hard as iron now and has a very wavy grain and still in great shape after over 40 years.
Thad-the teak that is available to me is 30yr old plantation grown. The Santa Maria is 200 or 300 hrs old jungle grown knocked down by the hurrican two years ago.-Capt. Z

[wizbang 13]

I got beat up in the fall of 2006 off Central America too!. Was your bully named "Sergio"?
Not an expert at all on these woods. Wouldn't your local chippy know best? Sounds good to replace steamed oak with grown timber.
Sure would like lots of pics!

[watsongs]

I lived in central Costa Rica for about 4 years, doing timber framing and other natural building. I also have been helping out a friend start his farm up near Rincon de la Vieja. We had some of the same trees as you have in Nicaragua, so I can give you my insight on what we used and how it held up, according to my experience and the locals' wisdom... Granted, none of this is in salt water, but... and it's been a dream of mine to return and build a boat with some of that stuff...

The Tamarindo is beautiful stuff; we used it for foundations, and it's supposed to be good for 30 years in the ground. If you can find some Nispero, same deal. Both are incredibly hard woods, beautiful grain.

The Roble is an equivalent to oak in pretty much all sides - grain appearance, density, etc. It's used a lot for purlins to attach the galvanized roofing to.

Gotta echo Thad on the teak. 30 years in a plantation yields some straight trees, but not a great amount of real heartwood, and they don't seem to make a great distinction sometimes. Keep an eye out.

And stay away from the Guanacaste. It's a cedar relative, apparently, but brittle under stress in my experience. Nasty sawdust; smelly and causes allergic reactions in some people.

Laurel is nice and easy to work with, but I don't think it has the durability for ribs. I'd be wary of that one. And the Seba as well; it's used in furniture, but not regarded as durable outside.

Guapinol, Guachipalin, good stuff. You should be able to get some Cocobolo as well; that's another one used for foundations, so it should be pretty durable. Beautiful stuff.

Pics and updates, please, and when I head back down south, I'll look you up on one of my visa hops -

- Greg

[purri]

Oz gum esp in this use may well be turpentine or ironbark.

[Larks]

Oz gum esp in this use may well be turpentine or ironbark.

Or Tassie Blue Gum? Would that have been exported Purri?

[Dana Marlin]

I also washed up on this coast in my little 30ft Tahiti Ketch about 1.5 months ago - but I am in Guatemala. I have found a place in the river here where I can keep the boat, and also have access to a yard for building and am about to start building a clinker tender and also do some work on my ketch. I found the description of the woods you mentioned very useful as I am also looking into what i should use. All hardwoods here seem to run about 90c/board foot which is absolutely incredible since I am used to prices in Malta. I shall be here for at least 6 months and then will continue on my trip to the Med. I shall follow your progress with interest. Do you monitor any SSB networks?

here are some recent pictures of Guatemala and the rivebr /> http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...1&l=f4e7990dc1


Dana

[Sailor]

The only Faux pas you've commited is tellins us all about a large schooner and not providing pictures. We LOVE pictures on this forum.

[Capt Zatarra]

[Capt Zatarra]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/62303368@N03/5671216146/

[Lucky Luke]

I am afraid she may be slightly under-canvassed

[Capt Zatarra]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/62303368@N03/5671216146/

I'm attempting to get the photos to show up in my posting, but so far all I have been able to do is get a link to my Flickr account. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong as I have read and studied the instructions in the FAQ several times and still can't seem to get the picture to show up.

[Capt Zatarra]

Lucky how did you do that ....post that picture from my flickr account???????

[Capt Zatarra]

Lucky Luke I have been watching your post with admiration for a while now. You have such a beautiful boat going there! I'd love to be able to work INDOORS and have a crew as well. The design of my boat is based on the Baltimore Clippers and the English all thought that they were over canvased too! When one was captured and taken back to England the lines would be taken off and new one was made with reduce canvas, to English standards and then they wondered why it would not perform! I still have not decided if I will make the main boom that long, that's a lot of over hang!

[purri]

Or Tassie Blue Gum? Would that have been exported Purri?

I'd imagine that any local timber that could bring a dollar o/s would have been "backloaded". From the earliest colonial days (abt 1792) "beefwood" aka Casuarania spp./ sheoak was a prized species among London cabinetmakers and made for fine veneers, soon thereafter Cedrela (Toona australis etc). That trend followed through the C19th and maybe C20th though with much lesser in the C20th. Perhaps there were plantations following the Oz migration to Sth America in the late C19th but this may not follow. I did hear of plantings in arid/semi arid climes (CA and Israel etc) so this may be a result.

Otherwise if the timber was milled in the 1970's it could be anything under the generic term "gum".

[Lucky Luke]

Lucky how did you do that ....post that picture from my flickr account???????

On your flicker account, click on the photo you want to post a new page with black background appears, with a little hand showing: left click on the picture gives a choice of sizes : chose 600 wide or closest the photo appears in a new page : left click on it, and then on "view image info" a new little window appears.
Then, on this forum, in the text of your post, write: [IMG], then copy the "Location" fom this new little window: for example the text: http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5267/...d9deaca7_z.jpg, then write [/IMG} (just replace this last "}" by "]". I had to do that otherwise the programming of this website would have understood that I wanted to show a photo)

That will give:

[JoshuaIII]

Not to be negative,
but I often wonder when you reach a point that you need so much repair on a boat.
If it's not cheaper, faster and stronger to just build a brand new hull and use the gear of the last boat to install on the new one.

Pretty much like they are doing on the Bluenose right now.

[Capt Zatarra]

Dana- I see from your photos your up north of us, I have only heard horror stories of sailors washing up on the west coast of Guatemala, high fees, more high fees ect. I hope that is not the case for you, when I heard what was going on I sailed past to El Salvador, bahia del sol, it was a great stop we spent 9 months there. How much did they charge to hual you out? and what is your lay days $? Here it's $3.51 per day and $300 for huai out and $150 to go back in. Sorry I had to shut down the SSB when I lowered the mast, no more antenna. I look forward to seeing you get this far south.

LL- thanks for the help. I'll be posting more soon.

JoshuaIII-It's not negative if you are honestly asking. this is a question I had to consider myself with a lot of careful evaluation. Here is my answer to each one of your points one at a time. Cheaper....that would depend on a case by case basis, in this case I don't have to buy a new set of drawings, lofting material, and all the stuff you need when starting over. my keel is still good so just using pardey's book as a rough guide to the time that I would have spent making a new one, I saved about 800 man hours by using my old, but still good keel, and not lofting out a new boat , So 800 man hours equals almost 5 months of work in a shop or boat yard that cost for rent, electricity, ect, and $831 just for the log to make a new keel (thats 756bdft at $1.10 a board ft here in Nicaville.) plus the cost for working drawings that can run several thousand. And you haven't even started on your problem areas yet. I really doubt that you could transfer over to your new hull any equipment that would have been left in place without incurring more cost for the bases nuts and bolts ect, it might not be much but it adds up, not to mention my motor weights 1268lbs I would have to hire a fork lift to move that as well. It all just starts to add additional cost, as opposed to just rebuilding in place. Faster- This is a hard one to answer. If I was rich and could afford to hire out all the work to be done by multiple shipwrights and laborers it would, I'm sure, be faster to build new, but now back in the real world, I already showed in the "cheaper question" I saved 800 man hours by using my keel that I had and not remaking it. On the other hand I did spend a fair amount of time tearing out bad wood and old ribs, but on the other hand I didn't need to build any scaffolding or support structure to hold each rib in place as I built. so you see there is pluses and minuses to each side. I think it is a wash. For my build the speed factor is absolutely controlled by how much money I have, do i have enough money this month for wood and a helper both or just wood and I do it all myself, or worse still no money for wood, or workers, that's when I work on the carvings for the boat. Stronger. This has nothing to do with either building or rebuilding! This has every thing to do with the choice of the builder, will he cut corners to save a buck or will he over build if he sees a potential problem, I could have built a new boat using the exact same dimensions for the ribs as the original and I would still have a weaker boat then what I am doing now with bigger stronger ribs, that will hopefully prevent me from ever breaking a rib again. So my answer is only for my situation and I feel that rebuilding is cheaper, fast as possible, and definitely as strong as a new build. Additionally I have already been sailing this boat for 8 years and I love it and I know exactly what I want to change to make it even better, and what I want to keep the same. All bets are off starting with a new boat. This is the emotional quotient of the question.

[Dana Marlin]

Hey Capt,

I had also heard all the rumors about Guatemala and tried to sail on by (my engine was out of commission) but strangely the winds turned and I was beating into headwinds trying to get to San Salvador. Someone on the Amigo Net suggested that there is a mechanic in Guatemala that can fix my engine so I decided to come and see. Initially I paid the high marina fees of $2/foot/day - but by the third day I hauled out for $300 and paid the yard fees of $100/month. I managed to get a lot done on the boat and also met the mechanic Ziggy. Then my luck changed. Ziggy has been here for 17 years and is mainly responsible for setting up the sport fishing business here - initially he had his yard on the river before the marina was built - since then the yard on the river has been closed. It is really a shame since he has a huge plot of land with a slip and a wooden dock and nothing doing - so he offered it to me to fix back up into a woodworking yard and boatbuilding. We have a wooden sport fisher coming in soon for restoration but in the meantime I am going to work on Melita and build a little tender. The only snag is getting to the yard one has to cross the bar into the river and this can only really be done safely at high slack tide and with a swell below 6ft. Once in the river there is also a power line one must go under - since the Tahiti Ketch has a short rig I managed to do this with a couple feet to spare. On the river I can keep the boat for free. It is exceptionally beautiful here and since most cruisers avoid Guatemala, it is relatively untouched by the cruiser scene. I am the only velero on the river and have become a topic of interest to the shrimpers and panga fishermen. It is very cheap (once you are out of the marina) and people are friendly. I will likely stay for at least 6 months - to one year. I have quite fallen in love with Guatemala so we'll see... I am on route to Malta but am in no particular hurry. I am considering going there via Patagonia. I lost my fickle crew in Mexico and although sailing this coast is not too difficult single handed, I don't relish the idea of negotiating the Patagonia canals alone - so I am on the look out for suitable crew for when I leave here...

Here is Melita on the river:



Your project looks like a mammoth one and you will likely still be at it when I finally leave here - so in that case I shall try to come by and have a look. Please keep the pictures coming. If there is anything you need in Guatemala let me know and perhaps I can help.

Kind regards
Dana

PS - following Lucky Lukes tuition I also got the hang of posting pictures from Flikr - here are a couple of me sailing down the coast...

[Capt Zatarra]

We had some of the same trees as you have in Nicaragua, so I can give you my insight on what we used and how it held up, according to my experience and the local wisdom....

Gotta echo Thad on the teak. 30 years in a plantation yields some straight trees, but not a great amount of real heartwood, and they don't seem to make a great distinction sometimes. Keep an eye out

Watsong thanks for the feed back. in looking at a possible replacement for teak what do you think of guaybon

[auscruisertom]

Hey Capt.Zatarra looks like a great place to do some rebuilding,and hoping you'l get cruising again in the coming season.Great you guys are able to cruise the countries that many of us missed back in the seventies. My last trip down the coast left Houtolco Mexico and sailed into Puntarenas Costa Rica 6 days later light variables, hand steering for days after autohelm stopped working. Cheers Tom

[Capt Zatarra]

Auscruisertom The world is sure a different place then it was in the seventies, and as near as I can tell cruisers have changed a lot too! We hand steered our entire trip (7000 miles later and i am definently putting some sort of autopilot on the boat before we leave here!) used paper charts, compass, dead reckoning, took a class on how to use a sexton, (have not needed it yet.) By sailing the old way we are the minority, most of the people we have met have motored or motorsailed every where, sailing only when the conditions were perfect. Then acted like they sailed the whole way. And all they talk about is where is the next marina with diesel is. And what GPS way points to put into their high dollar big screen do every thing electronics. Don't get me wrong I love electronics, just can't trust my families life and my boat to it when it is not always right. Well before this creeps in to the bilge I should say something about my rebuild, I cut out more of the old cockpit plywood and now have the area ready for the aft cabin bulkhead, so tomorrow my red lead paint will be here i'll paint the ribs then start on the bulkhead, I'll take pictures and post soon. Capt Z

[JoshuaIII]

Glad to see I am not the only purist around!
On my first boat I've installed for 10 000$ of brand new electronics with everything in fashion...
Not long after I get hit by lightning and lost everything, never again!

Now I use solar panel for lights (With backup oil lamp) and a handheld GPS with it's foggy for too long... The engine was removed some long time ago also... Anyway glad to see another one!

Do you have pictures of your boat before the rebuild?

[auscruisertom]

Hey Capt hand steering for 7000 miles I am impressed ,not an easey task with only three on board. As far as self steering goes both my cruising boats had a windvane and autopilot as a backup ,however I navigated with the use of a sextant. In my case a windvane was essential for long distance cruising, sailing an 30' Albereg frequently singlehanded. Problem with that last trip south was the variable winds sailing during the days under vane but unable to sleep because of extreme heat,then hand steering at night once wind dropped. Annyhow I got real run down,finnally falling fast asleep ,being woken by a Costa Rican fishing boat as wind picked up on 6th day with about 100 meters to go ashore. What is the place your rebuilding your schooner at called? is it on the coast or inland? Good to hear your making progress Cheers Tom

[wizbang 13]

Hand steering for 7000 miles? 3 zombies on a boat.

[JoshuaIII]

Windvane does change the way of living aboard when sailing! You cannot even compare them!
I just had a bad back draft in my wood stove...Can't work in the boat shed Argggg!

[Redeye]

Wow, that's a pretty full rebuild, doing the hard yards alright!

So in summary, New floors, all frames/ribs, some deadwood, new deck, new planking also? How much of the "original" boat will remain? I't certainly a big project and not one to take on lightly. I admire your tenacity!

Well don, she should be beautiful when finished.

R

[Capt Zatarra]

JoshuaIII- ya I'm a purist, and I think it is not something that someone decides to be but something that one becomes through experience and education, sort of like being converted to a religion. I was a really into sailboat racing for many years, always on fast, light, FRP, tupperware boats. (had a good reputation for being a kite man) the more I raced, the more I learned about boats built to beat the rules. Often making boats that killed on corrected time but were skiterish(is that a real word) and down right dangerous in foul weather. Not to mention flog like a dog down wind without a kite to compensate. In studying nautical history I became more aware of what Chapelle referred to as the "rules of the sea" where in design is dictated by the waters you sail in not the racing rules. Then I sailed on a 98 yr old Danish fishing boat that had been converted to a cruiser, she was designed to sail fast (the need to get your fish to market asap) and safe in some really challenging conditions (the north sea). It was built like a fortress and smelled like pine tar, I was hooked. So here I am, lucky as all get out to be alive today when I can have all the lessons from the past on what makes a great sailboat and all the benefits of the present like electric power tools, truck delivered lumber, and bronzed screws ordered on the Internet. Life is good! Capt Z
I looked in on your web page nice set up, GOOD LOOKIN boat! Do you have a time schedule for splash or are you like me just workin' it day by day?
Oh and I'll see if I can round up some pics from when we were sailing, before the tear down.

[Capt Zatarra]

Redeye-Original parts that will remain is the keel, tanks, and the galley (I rebuilt that in Washington state with black walnut and spalded maple) and all the head equipment, that's about it not much left!
7000 mile broken up into many small pieces. It would take about 2 days to get into the swing of sleeping, steering, eating, sleeping, steering.....but most of the time we were able to make short hops 1 to 3 days, between anchorages a few days swimming, surfing, snorkeling, sleeping all night long, and we would start to get to itchin to go again. My favorite passage so far was from Bahia Navidad to Zehatinajo, 125 nm we had a 2 knot current against us, and light winds so with every stitch of canvas up we were only making about 3 knots, that's 1 nm/hr over ground! Anyway I had the sails all balanced so we didn't have to touch the wheel more then 3 or 4 times a day, so we hung out reading, napping, cooking, eating, for FIVE whole days! It was fantastic! I bought a wind vane in Mexico from another sailor, but it could not steer the boat because my cable steering went through about 11 shieves between the wheel and the rudder, creating way to much resistance for the wind vane to over come.

[Capt Zatarra]

Windvane does change the way of living aboard when sailing! You cannot even compare them!
I just had a bad back draft in my wood stove...Can't work in the boat shed Argggg!

Increase the height of your flu outside and it will draw better and have fewer back drafts

[JoshuaIII]

Increase the height of your flu outside and it will draw better and have fewer back drafts

Thanks, it's actually a bad temporary set up I have done to be able to use the shipmate stove in the building area... Would need to spend more time to it!

Thanks for our boat, actually we will splash it the fastest we can, probably next summer. We are homeless now as we cut up the last boat to get the equipment to build this one, Same size different design.

Mainly working 6 days a week on it alone, as one of us need to get money going in! We are working on the hull/rig and a really simple & basic interior, I will bring all my tools onboard so will finish that along the way. During winter the sea freeze here, so I prefer go somewhere warm to finish the inside!

Probably head toward Brazil to finish it, nice wood and cheap there. Sure would like to see your lady getting rebuild and before it.

I've planned to get 2x 12V battery on the boat(For the lights + our computer), There is a lot of good battery powered tool working 24volts now. Throw the battery away and wire it up to the boat battery work great. I have a 12Volt drill like that, no more battery charging and great to work onboard anywhere... Just a idea

Skil saw is next, with a mod to use it as a table saw.

[Capt Zatarra]

JashuaIII- we have 8 zamboni batteries (6volt each) house batteries, wired series/paralell for 12 volt power for lights and frig/freezer. I like the idea of getting rid of the batteries on my rechargable tools as they are almost worthless because they have so little working time per charge. what I have been doing is pulling out my gas generator to power up my 120volt tools. which is what I'm using now for the rebuild. on a different but note but sort of related, I have fantasies of trading my 125hp ford-lyman out for a permanent magnet motor, with more batteries for the motor, just think no noise or exhaust smoke or vibration, and charging the batteries while sailing. and a lot less space taken up in the bilge.

I don't have to worry about the cold here but the rainy season is fast approaching and I have to protect the boat from the rain. it's always something

[Phil Y]

I love this thread. Its all mad buggers in crazy places doing genuine wooden boat stuff. More power to ya.
And good luck.
I've replaced the battery on an old 12v cordless drill with a bit of wire, hook it up to a 12v outlet on the boat, works great.
Phil