Cutting down trees

[bischoffboatworks]

Hey all you lumber folk! I have a tree question for you.

My nephew is about to build a new house on his lot and will be clearing 10 trees (cedar and fir). How big a diameter is worth keeping and milling, vs using for firewood? I would assume there would be a minimum needed to clear the heart and sap wood.

Thanks so much for any guidelines.

[Ron Williamson]

We like an 8" top,which is good for a 6x6.
Make sapwood allowances from there.
R

[Binnacle Bat]

In my neck of the woods no-one in their right mind puts cedar or fir in a fireplace or stove, except as kindling.

Allan

[bischoffboatworks]

I know. It makes me sweat thinking about it.

In my neck of the woods no-one in their right mind puts cedar or fir in a fireplace or stove, except as kindling.

Allan

[BETTY-B]

In my neck of the woods no-one in their right mind puts cedar or fir in a fireplace or stove, except as kindling.

Allan

Why not? Fir makes great firewood. It's probably the number one go to firewood around here.

[David G]

There are always regional differences, but douglas fir makes a very good firewood. Similar btu output, and easier to split when compared to many hardwoods (red oak, ash, beech, etc.) Check the chart, below. A pitchy bit makes very good kinkling, as does the western red cedar. At our cabin on Eld Inlet, and some other places, we used to burn a lot of madrone. Excellent firewood.

http://www.thelograck.com/firewood_rating_chart.html

[ILikeRust]

The problem with using most softwoods (pine, fir, etc.) as firewood is the resin/pitch. It vaporises in the smoke and then cools as it rises up the chimney, condensing on the walls of the chimney as sticky soot. Over time it builds up. Then one day you make yourself a nice fire, and it ignites the built-up soot and pitch, and you've got a chimney fire. Which acts sort of like a blast furnace, and will find any chinks in your chimney lining and burn your house down.

Which is why I have always understood it to be preferable to burn only well-seasoned hardwoods.

[David G]

Rust,

The buildup of creosote inside a stovepipe can be an issue. But the way that you phrase it vastly overstates the problem. If what you say were true, half the houses in my home town would have burned down long ago. Lots of people in this region have historically heated with fir. Growing up on the Oregon coast, and being in the plywood business (mostly fir plywood)... we heated our house with a wood furnace. We burned exclusively fir, and we were typical. Throw in all the saunas being used once or twice a week, and you have a whole lot of fir being burned. All of those years at our house, we had a mason sweep the chimney only once - and that simply because he was already up there doing some tuck-pointing. He said it was in good shape.

Of course, we (and anyone with any sense) seasoned our fir. Your description sounds more like burning unseasoned softwood.

And... back to the original question - Mr. Smalser can tell you what's common now, but the bandsaw millers around here used to go for 10 - 12" tops for douglas fir, but smaller for western red cedar, IIRC.

[wizbang 13]

I burn mostly fir, about 3 cords a year. The soot issue is way less than with pine. Fir burns quite clean. 3 years drying , it's freakin hi test!
If a bit of red cedar comes along, I buck it to 6" lengths, it is a treat.
Dunno the current answer about mill value to a dozen trees. Like most everything else, pictures? They might be 40 years old or 200. Diameter and how far up to limbs?
Plus, it is spring now, time to harvest them for lumber is in the fall.

[JohnEmery2]

Hey all you lumber folk! I have a tree question for you.

My nephew is about to build a new house on his lot and will be clearing 10 trees (cedar and fir). How big a diameter is worth keeping and milling, vs using for firewood? I would assume there would be a minimum needed to clear the heart and sap wood.

Thanks so much for any guidelines.

Wow, depends on the contract, and how many logs are on the truck from a commercial point. I've seen saw mills run 10 inch bolts thru, just enough to make 4 2x4's from one bolt. Hardly worth sawing but the cost was only 15 cents a bolt.

What you have, known in the trade, is a yard tree, wood known to contain lots of nails, concrete and other wonderful things that dull a saw. Most mill owners have standing orders to NEVER cut a yard tree because of past experience. I'd call a saw mill and see what they want for custom cutting then go from there, if they will handle a yard tree.

[JohnEmery2]

Let me clarify a few things on my previous post.
Key words that a saw owner never wants to hear- New house, lot and clearing to build a new house, new addition. They all sound like "I want to destroy your saw to him."

[Bob Smalser]

Hey all you lumber folk! I have a tree question for you.

My nephew is about to build a new house on his lot and will be clearing 10 trees (cedar and fir). How big a diameter is worth keeping and milling, vs using for firewood? I would assume there would be a minimum needed to clear the heart and sap wood.

Thanks so much for any guidelines.

Without some rough diameters at breast height it's hard to say. Same with hardware. This a fresh, new lot, or one with houses nearby that have been occupied a while? The usual drill with hardware trees is if the mill's metal detector lights up, you lose the value of that tree.

Because of the destruction in Japan, the market is coming back and the mills here are busy. But if these are all 12" trees, they are still only worth around $400 a ton as pulp or studwood...and that's after you pay $3-400 for a self-loading log truck to take then to your nearest mill in Snohomish. And if it is studwood, it may need to go to Manke in Tacoma, costing more in transport. Plus only certain mills buy cedar, and one or two small trees aren't worth a seperate trip. Plus you'll need to limb, buck and skid them to where the self-loader can pick them up. Add all that up and the usual answer is firewood.

But if these are second-growth trees of any size off of recently-converted forest land, you can take the diameters and compute an estimate of their Scribner board feet yourself. Call Sea-Sno mill for current prices and the best lengths; otherwise figure around 70 cents a Scribner board foot for DF, and a dollar for WRC. Measurements are taken at the small end, not including the bark.

http://westcoastlands.net/SawmillLogScale.html

I don't think you have enough to require a timber permit to harvest and sell them, but county Director of Community Development in whatever county the lot is located in has a forestry department you should call and ask. Then you get to pay B&O tax on the sale, too.

But the usual method to handle residential lots is probably the best. Let your land-clearing guy with the excavator handle it. You'll need to stump and haul away the debris anyway, and he'll know whether any timber or pulp sales will offset his fee. I'd discourage any notions of the owner clearing the lot. On small jobs it's always cheaper to hire the job out to an expert rather than rent an excavator.

[Trevor S.]

If they are of worthwhile size and quality, get a portable bandsaw mill to come and do it on site.

[bischoffboatworks]

I found someone with a woodmizer on Bainbridge Island (where the trees are) but want to figure out if they are big enough to bother.

[bischoffboatworks]

Oh, and BTW... I am using the lumber for my boat projects, not to sell. I hope to get something for deck beams, decking, or whatever.

[Bob Smalser]

Diameter @ 4 feet:

Under 13": Firewood
13-18": 1 Sawlog, 2 Firewood logs
18-24": 2 Sawlogs, 1 Firewood log
25" and up: 3 Sawlogs+

But you still have stumps and slash to deal with, and Bainbridge doesn't allow silviculture burning...it'll all have to be hauled away. Have the excavator seperate and stack the sawlogs where the portable sawmill operator can reach them without bringing in an extra machine.

[bischoffboatworks]

Hey, thanks Bob. Exactly what I was looking for.

Karl

[ffiksa]

Karl,

About two winters ago, a large windstorm dropped 3 Doug Firs on my property, all with a diameter at the butt end of at least 24". After looking at them for a while, I decided it would be fun to make something more than firewood for my neighbors. I bucked them into 20 lengths, loaded them onto my equipment trailer and hauled over to a local sawyer in Port Orchard. I can remember the cost per board foot, but it didn't seem unreasonable at the time, and this was for fun, not for resale or business. After two years of air drying under a shelter, I finally got around to running a few pieces through the jointer and planer, and then practicing some joinery work in the form a of tool box. You'll have to forgive my woodworking skills, but I have to say it was immensely satisfying to create something out of wood on my property, and in my care. And the wood I wound up with is far superior, in my opinion, than most anything found in the big box stores. In any case, I would defer to Mr. Smalser for any real advice as to what to do with your timber - just my 2 cents.

-Aaron