Coquina buid in Oz

[m2c1Iw]

Mike it's looking really nice. Did you get your hardware from Reineck? If so did it all come together?
We've had some great weather here lately, I'm anxious to get mine out on the water.
Those shearstrakes look fabulous. Is that the "Celery top" you mentioned earlier?

Yes Jim was great to deal with I ordered in three lots over a few months the blocks are simply beautiful.

The shears are mahogany I used celery top for stems, keel and the frames it is a blond colour and wonderful to work nearly as good as Huon pine which is devine pity it will become almost unattainable due to logging bans being introduced here.

[simonmags]

Hi Mike, another adelaiden just popping in to say hi and keep up the good work. Do you anticipate much work being involved in sealing the remaining edges of the lapstrake planks? I like the way the breasthook is shaping up.

[PeterSibley]

Over moulds Mike so as you say it will be an exercise in lining off .

[Skegemog]

Thanks Mike. A boat I will start this year is a Selway Fisher JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl. The design is for stitch and glue rather than for glued lap so I expect a little more work modifying the shapes he has given to allow for laps.
Consequently I might have to pick up the plank shapes myself .

Someone once posted a rather neat method using two battens with hot glued 'braces' that formed a 'truss like' template for the plank shape (I'm not describing that well!). I think I need to look at it again.

I used that method to get out the platform boards for my Coquina, worked perfectly

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7158/6...9faed1b4_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7165/6682276701_90739e68e5_b.jpg

[m2c1Iw]

I used that method to get out the platform boards for my Coquina, worked perfectly

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7158/6...9faed1b4_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7165/6...1_90739e68e5_b

Many thanks for the pics I was wondering exactly how I was going to do it.

[RFNK]

Thanks Mike. A boat I will start this year is a Selway Fisher JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl. The design is for stitch and glue rather than for glued lap so I expect a little more work modifying the shapes he has given to allow for laps.
Consequently I might have to pick up the plank shapes myself .

Someone once posted a rather neat method using two battens with hot glued 'braces' that formed a 'truss like' template for the plank shape (I'm not describing that well!). I think I need to look at it again.

I'm sure a few people have probably posted the truss template method but I'm pretty sure Gernot, who was building a Grey Seal, posted some pictures a few years ago. He used it to spile his planks, I think.

Thanks for these later pictures Mike, really looking great.

Rick

[PeterSibley]

The search function couldn't find me any "Gernot" posts Rick and neither could Google. Could you have a go? Searches aren't something I do well .

[Portland]

Peter , do a search for Gert.
Unfortunately , he has passed away.
Regards Rob J.

[Skegemog]

I taped pieces of template material on top of each beam and then hot glued the battens on top and then I went back and hot glued diagonals in to lock the templates into a truss. Once removed from the boat the beam pieces had the advantage of locating where the floor were as I laid out my floor boards so I could locate the butt joints screw holes etc. It was important to me to keep all the gaps consistent particularly between the margin board and the platform boards so there was a bit of back and forth after roughing out the blanks but it worked out ok in the end. I book matched the floorboards including the margin boards and was lucky to find a piece of juniper wide and long and clear enough to do those in one piece allthough I was forced to allow a 1/4' of sap wood on the inner edge of the aft interior tip of the margin boards also on the outer edge of the boards flanking the centerboard case. I guess I will find out about the relative durability of sap vs. heartwood in real life...





http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7003/6...a8181e83_b.jpg

[RFNK]

Peter , do a search for Gert.
Unfortunately , he has passed away.
Regards Rob J.

That's right, Gert not Gernot. Very sorry to hear he passed away, very sad news.

The method's quite simple in principle. Place a batten along each edge - whether the edges are the edges of adjoining planks, ribands or marks, and then hot glue little trusses in between the two battens so that the battens are held in place. Then just lift it out and trace onto your stock.

Rick

[WX]

My first look at your boat Mike, an impressively beautiful design and an equally impressive job you have done of building her.

[PeterSibley]

OK, that worked very well. Thank you Rob , thank you Rick .

I have photos to look at ...it's self explanatory but I haven't done this one before .

[PeterSibley]

I used that method to get out the platform boards for my Coquina, worked perfectly

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7158/6...9faed1b4_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7165/6682276701_90739e68e5_b.jpg

Skegemog ...excellent ! Very much appreciated .Thanks

[BriMac]

The images of the method and the result are inspiring.

[m2c1Iw]

I taped pieces of template material on top of each beam and then hot glued the battens on top and then I went back and hot glued diagonals in to lock the templates into a truss. Once removed from the boat the beam pieces had the advantage of locating where the floor were as I laid out my floor boards so I could locate the butt joints screw holes etc. It was important to me to keep all the gaps consistent particularly between the margin board and the platform boards so there was a bit of back and forth after roughing out the blanks but it worked out ok in the end. I book matched the floorboards including the margin boards and was lucky to find a piece of juniper wide and long and clear enough to do those in one piece allthough I was forced to allow a 1/4' of sap wood on the inner edge of the aft interior tip of the margin boards also on the outer edge of the boards flanking the centerboard case. I guess I will find out about the relative durability of sap vs. heartwood in real life...





http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7003/6...a8181e83_b.jpg

Wow fantastic result Skegemog I hope I can get close to that and thanks again for the pics the fog is clearing.

[Skegemog]

Happy to share what little I have to offer, your build looks great, I love the shot with the bougainvillea. I painted my topsides white as well but with black bottom paint as it will ride at a mooring periodically.

[m2c1Iw]

Work on the boat is shifting into high gear, well a couple of hours a night has seen some progress.

Centrecase fitted, floors sole beams and bilge pump bracket done annd the breasthook is now a permanent fixture which has enabled the sheerstrake to receive some final shaping.

Hmmm only just noticed now the title of this thread is lacking, first thing is how do I fix that and second thing an appointment with the optomitrist.

[Larks]

Breasthook and shearstrake look stunning Mike!!!

[m2c1Iw]

Thanks Greg, I think the pic of the breasthook should be titled "Epoxy a wood butchers friend"

[m2c1Iw]

Hi Mike, another adelaiden just popping in to say hi and keep up the good work. Do you anticipate much work being involved in sealing the remaining edges of the lapstrake planks? I like the way the breasthook is shaping up.

Ah sorry missed this post the edge sealing has been done and yes there is a lot of work first the sanding of excess epoxy that I missed during the glue clean up then brushing all the edges with a good coat of epoxy this was mainly to seal the thin spots from the glue up. I was contemplating using CPES instead of the pox but in the end decided epoxy was the go.

[Phil Y]

Somehow I missed this thread until today. Beautiful work, really stunning.

[RFNK]

Yep, really looking great!

Rick

[davebrown]

Very good looking build. I note that I did the same thing you did with running the breasthook joint flush into the stem, and rubrail/shearstrake. This has caused me a bit of confusion in how to interpret the plans later down the road, as I installed the washboards (sidedecks). Since the washboards add 1/2"to elevation at the sheer, it confused me a bit as to how to retain that Herreshoff sheerline. I didn't want to mess with it by elevating it, but in the end I ran the washboard edge all the way up to the stem and cut a mahogany half oval strip to lay on top of the sheer, along the washboard edge from the watertight compartment to the stem. The other problem was more than visual--the way the breasthook connects, it looks like it will pour water right down into the end grain of the termination edge of the washboards. Since I dry fitted and then removed everything as I continue to varnish and work on the seats, I can't photograph this simple idea, which is harder to express through written detail. In any event, I hope you will post a photo of how you are terminating your washboards direction stem when you get there, just for comparison.

[davebrown]

If you want to see photos of what I am talkiing about, I put some on flickr. You can just clikc on my name on top of the photo and it will divert into the photostream. I don't want to crash your thread so here is a link, if you're interested:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/3748171...n/photostream/

[m2c1Iw]

Dave I think I understand the dilemma my intention is to run the washboards (I just call them decks) just short of the top round of the sheerstakes and at the bow a fore/aft butt joint with final shaping that covers the stem and fore section of the breast hook. Phew does that make sense anyway if you are patient enough I post some pics one day. The build has stalled for the last month life/work you know.

Thnks for the link and please feel free to add comments post pics at will. I've found that an enjoyable aspect of novice boat building when confronted with a problem one researches the forum.

Cheers
Mike

[Rob Hazard]

Not sure if you know this, but Coquina's side decks were not part of the boat's original design. Herreshoff had them added on after a season of sailing the boat. Based on this experiment he concluded that any small open sailing boat should have side decks.

[johnno]

The build has stalled for the last month life/work you know. Cheers Mike

Move along, move along. That's no excuse!

[m2c1Iw]

Not sure if you know this, but Coquina's side decks were not part of the boat's original design. Herreshoff had them added on after a season of sailing the boat. Based on this experiment he concluded that any small open sailing boat should have side decks.

Yes I did read that some where.........not to mention a more comfortable addition when hiking out.

Move along, move along. That's no excuse!

Truth is John things are in need of more sanding and then painting so the motivation is not there, I much prefer jobs that require a plane in hand if you know what mean.

But my sails are made and on the way from Tassie as we write so you are sure to see a sudden blast of activity in the not too distant future.

[johnno]

Mick, I know exactly what you mean. I did all my sanding on stinking hot muggy days too, just to make sure it stuck all over me. A plane in hand, and I'm in heaven. Who made your sails, if I can ask?

[m2c1Iw]

http://www.stormbaysails.com.au/Welcome.html seemed like the logical choice.

They haven't arrived yet but I'm sure I'll be pleased.

[davebrown]

Mike, thanks for reply. I too am getting held up by lots of little finish work here and there. Durn! But I did manage to take out a pulling boat in SF this morning. Weather was uncharacteristically calm for this time of year. Anyway, good luck and I will be watching for more photos. Rob, interesting point about the washboards. I wonder what happened to cause that conclusion.

[Rob Hazard]

I can think of 3 good reasons to have side decks on an open sailing boat. First, they stiffen the hull against twisting loads exerted by sailing forces. Second, they keep out stray splashes when the boat is sailing heeled over. And third, they give you a comfortable place to sit.

Herreshoff also reduced the sailing rig after a summer of sailing Coquina. He said the original rig was "Much too large for ordinary use." I can imagine him having a couple white-knuckle moments that first summer that caused him to make both changes.

[davebrown]

Right! I was of course referring to the white-knuckled ride. I stripped my washboards in WRC. I am going to lay 3 oz glass, more or less, for abrasion protection, and a mahogany rail on top of the shearstrake rubrail just to keep any WRC splinters from popping up. I have had one in my hand for a month now and cannot get it out. The photo on Flickr above shows the WRC, but the lighting is not well.

[davebrown]

(EDITED: The following was a reply to several interesting posts/questions. Now they seem to be gone...Can't figure out why. Anyone care to enlighten me? )
Yeadon: if I may respond to the framing issue: The plans show full framing for the cedar planked boat, and half frames, as done here, for the ply. The half frame will carry the brunt of the flooring stress and I suppose Hylan is relying on the glued lap seam, a la Oughtred, for the necessary upper strength. Simply because I like the way the frames look, and because I tend to overbuild out of caution, I used 1/2" x3/4" half frames to the flooring edge and then ran a 1/4"x3/4" section on up to the bottom of the shear. But it's more visual than anything. Hylan does not go into detail about what adhesive, if any, to use on the framing with the ply, or whether it should just be bedding compound and screws. This created a dilemma for me. Purely by chance, I came across a build article from some years ago in which Hylan had written a how-to on one hull or another, I forget what, but he talked in that article about using ply with ribs, and epoxy ON ONE SIDE OF THE FRAME ONLY, with screws. In that build, he mentioned that he thought that expansion and contraction of the ribs would be real, but slight, and that would be a way to deal with it. I posted a thread or two on here, which gave some of the Benighted Who Have Never Built A Boat a great deal of fun sneering at the question, but ultimately I couldn't really get a clear answer on what to do with it. So I followed Hylan's advice from that previous, unrelated ply-with-ribs-build. Time will tell I guess, but I think it is a point in his plans that he might want to expound on, just for those of us who are coming in to the build with uncertainty on that issue, since the established mantra is "don't mix ply and solid timber with epoxy". I have several other boats, and anywhere that I had a ply and solid timber mix the pox has either failed catastrophically or at least the seams have opened up, which follows the rule. The same question could be asked about garboard to keel/kingplank (Hylan calls it the Hog), or floor timbers to garboard. Are we complicating a simple issue? Well, maybe, but I do have the open seams to prove that mixing ply, solid timber and epoxy is if not a bad idea, at least one that should be viewed with caution below the waterline...

[Sailor]

Good points Dave. Maybe it's the particular situation too. In certain circumstances it may work while in others it doesn't. If he were to talk a bit about it the discussion could be beneficial to us all.

[m2c1Iw]

Dave,
As I was pondering the question of ribs and framing I did read your thread re bedding of the ribs and thought at the time there was not any real clarity in the responses.

I offer the following only to explain my logic and quickly add it is not necessarily the correct method.
On my build I am fitting the midship thwart and fastening atop the stern section of the centrecase in lieu of sternsheets so the centrecase will be well braced however if the later build method is adopted I'd suggest the ribs and framing play an important structual role as the triangulation of the framing provides support for the centrecase therefore a secure method of fixing the ribs is important.
My take on the issue of wood movement in this application is that given the ribs are small sticks 1/2" X 11/16" any movement will be very minor plus I have epoxy sealed them so by rights it should be zero. I decided to both epoxy glue and bronze screw at each lap a total overkill no doubt but hey seemed reasonable plus my steaming job was not perfect so I needed to pull the ribs into postion a little.
Time will tell I guess if this approach is approriate.

Now for a little tip or should I say warning for the novice who may read this thread and be contemplating steaming their Coquina ribs. When steaming even though they are wee little things you still need a plentiful supply of steam a well insulated steamer and give em suffcient time to get really hot and pliable. I didn't and the job of temporarily screwing them in position was made more difficult than it should have been. Another thing drill clearance holes (obvious really) but I was attempting to countersink and drill using a tapered bit but on only a half inch max of ply to play with it was risky and sure enough I managed to drill through my nicely finished hull.
So use course thread round head screws drill a clearance hole in the rib worry about countersinking after the ribs have set up and very carefully drill the correct pilot hole, assuming you have finished the water side of the hull before flipping if not well I guess a few extra holes to seal does not matter. Oh and one or two 3/4" self tappers screwed at the max bend point and flush to the top surface of the rib would in hindsight have been the best solution.

Cheers
Mike

[davebrown]

Hi Mike: yes, I did almost exactly the same thing you did with the ribs. I poxed one side and then put in a SS screw at each lap, as you did. I was very careful with depth of pilot and managed to stay inside the planking on all but one or two screws, and there were a lot! I did have one area of trouble that was a bit of a surprise--I used ash for the ribs (which is rot prone, but a little more flexible than WO) and at first I had my pilot bits too small for the wood. I split about every third screw in the first few ribs, and I kept thinking it was the wood. I then went up maybe 1/32nd in pilot size and didn't split another one. I think I ended up at 1/8" on no. 8 SS screws, IIRC. Mike, did you use the same methods for your floor timbers, i.e., pox sealant and glue and screw to the kingplank and frames? Looks like they came out well. BTW I was going to white lead the stem and keel, but after looking at yours I might keep it all one color. Yours looks wonderful. I used cherry on the rubrail/shear strake and I couldn't have asked for it to be better...man these boats are something. Going from nothing to having a Herreshoff in the garage, it is a singular experience.

[m2c1Iw]

Yes screw and glued floors frames and sole beams. I have been epoxy coating everything as I go but confess I'm running out of steam so some two pack primer may very well be employed in the final stretch. The boat will be stored undercover so 100% sealing is not really critical, I'm still undecided if I'll coat the sheerstrakes or just varnish but as for the thwarts they are the most exposed and subject to damage so epoxy is probably wise.
Next problem is sourcing some boards for the sole still tossing up between WRC (expensive here) Douglas fir or Hoop pine it may very well be determined by the widest boards I can find.

[m2c1Iw]

Sails have arrived, ordered bags as well so they can be stored on the spars.



and here they are roped and leech cords (concession to modern trim) Russell included reef points in the mizzen not sure if I'll use them we shall see.

[m2c1Iw]

A couple of small jobs done first the mizzen thwart


which has a few nail imperfections (I can't help scrounging) so to try and disguise them a few twigs mashed into the holes.



and sanded kinda helps.

[m2c1Iw]

Thwart riser done and glued

[johnno]

Lovely work going on there..and thanks for the sails pix! The bags are also very impressive..I didn't think of that.

[m2c1Iw]

Did a test fit of the masts and I'm pleased to report they fit and the main mast rake appears about right. I was a little nervous about how accurate the cut out in the breasthook would end up. You will note my assistant is camera shy.

[johnno]

How good is that! You must be getting very close to hitting the water now.

[m2c1Iw]

Unfortunately no still a fair bit to go yet, bad case of builders block at the moment everything I start I mess up so the next step is a big tidy up and a think in the moaning chair.

As you can see

[johnno]

It doesn't look like that from here. However, I am also experiencing the slower progress of details, painting and finishing compared with the big moves early on in a build. I like the mobile strongback a lot. And yes, your assistant (project manager) is a tad shy. I don't see a moaning chair in sight though.

[Reynard38]

You are not too far out from launching. One the decks go on it really starts to go quick.
She's looking beautiful. Do you intend to trailer, or leave her at a dock or mooring?

[m2c1Iw]

It doesn't look like that from here. However, I am also experiencing the slower progress of details, painting and finishing compared with the big moves early on in a build. I like the mobile strongback a lot. And yes, your assistant (project manager) is a tad shy. I don't see a moaning chair in sight though.

The moaning chair is in the moaning corner

Do you intend to trailer, or leave her at a dock or mooring?

Stored on a trailer under cover although I do have a cunning plan involving landing davits and a boat cover for the summer.

[P.L.Lenihan]

Maybe it is just my computer screen Mike,but your mizzen mast looks like it could use just a smidgen more cant aft to avoid the appearance of converging lines with your mainmast. Mizzens should always cant more than the main anyway, just for that jaunty look.

Beyond that, very ,very sweet looking and remarkable workmanship. I'd be busy, right about now,building a showcase out of bullet proof glass to keep her safe if she were mine. In otherwords, I'd be so terrified of using her for fear of dinging her, I'd never use her, just look at her.


I envy your workmanship and best of luck when your launch day arrives!!




Cheers!



Peter

[m2c1Iw]

Ah Peter thankyou for explaining what has been worrying me.

On the test day and looking at the pics I kept saying to myself, self something definitely does not look right even though the masts are upendicular and I replied, yes self I agree but what is it?

So while my micro adjustments succeeded in achieving alignment it did not sit well with the eye the old converging line problem indeed.

As for a showcase no sir I do intend to sail her, racing even but I admit it is very likely I will shed a tear the first time the wonderful sheerstrake that I slaved over is dinged......alas such is life.