Requiring ID to vote

[genglandoh]

In the US many States are changing the law to require IDs at time of voting.

In Ohio where I live the new law requires you to show one of the following
1. An Ohio driver’s license
2. state ID
3. military ID
4. U.S. passport
5. or “a new, free photo ID from State Bureau of Motor Vehicles

Question for the members of other countries.

Do you need to show an ID to vote in your country?

[Waddie]

I think this is long overdue. It seems like a good security step, and could reduce election fraud. No honest person should object to showing an ID in order to vote. You have to show ID for everything else. Where I vote they don't check anything--anyone could vote under my name.

regards,
Waddie

[S.V. Airlie]

I've always showed ID with a photo on it..ever since I became a voter. Didn't matter..not a hardship. I did find it humorous that when I ran for a county position and every clerk in the polling station knew me by name still asked for ID though when I voted.

[genglandoh]

I think this is long overdue. It seems like a good security step, and could reduce election fraud. No honest person should object to showing an ID in order to vote. You have to show ID for everything else. Where I vote they don't check anything--anyone could vote under my name.

regards,
Waddie

I think but I am not sure the reason there was no law requiring an ID goes back to just after the civil war and using the ID requirement to prevent former slaves from voting.
Mostly a southern Democratic issue.
But that was 100 years ago and today I think it is reasonable to ask for an ID.
Most of these laws include having the State provide a free ID.

I am just wondering if ID's are required in other countries.

[Norman Bernstein]

I think it's a fine idea... as long as the legislation which requires it, is passed at least 4 years before the requirement is instituted, in order to assure that everyone who wants to vote, and doesn't have a passport, licence, or other ID, can get one.

Passing such a law a few months in advance of an election is purely designed to help suppress the poor and disadvantaged vote; it's a political ploy.

[Flying Orca]

How do you compare the voter to a list of eligible voters if they don't show ID...?

(Here we show ID to vote, and it seems to work fine.)

[Uncle Duke]

I think this is long overdue. It seems like a good security step, and could reduce election fraud. No honest person should object to showing an ID in order to vote. You have to show ID for everything else. Where I vote they don't check anything--anyone could vote under my name.

regards,
Waddie

I have no problem with requiring an ID, as long as the process of getting an ID is not burdensome - i.e., does not disenfranchise some segment of otherwise eligible voters. I don't think that it will have any perceptible impact on voter fraud, however. "Retail" voter fraud is a non-issue - it is far to difficult to get the numbers needed to affect any election. Wholesale fraud, however, is a persistent issue and it usually consists of "encouraging" people to not vote. It would be nice to see ID implementations which did not do the same thing.

[S.V. Airlie]

No..it comes down to what ID will be allowed.. Flying now..the rules have changed..Now you have to, if I remember correctly, buy an ID strictly for flying overseas or internationally ( say Canada) because a State lic. was no longer valid.. And a passport costs a min. of 100.00 and may be out of reach to obtain although still acceptable at airports.
In part, it is all about the money that can be collected to sell/produce a third type of ID which may actually be prohibitive in cost to some.

[Uncle Duke]

No..it comes down to what ID will be allowed.. Flying now..the rules have changed..Now you have to, if I remember correctly, buy an ID strictly for flying overseas or internationally ( say Canada) because a State lic. was no longer valid.. And a passport costs a min. of 100.00 and may be out of reach to obtain although still acceptable at airports.
In part, it is all about the money that can be collected to sell/produce a third type of ID which may actually be prohibitive in cost to some.

Huh?
There is an "ID ... for flying overseas or internationally" - it's called a passport. The only change is that you now need it to go in/out of Canada instead of the previous "drivers license is good enough".
And I'm not sure where you're going with the "sell/product a third type of ID".... as noted in the original post, there is a range of already existing acceptable IDs (at least in Ohio) - what they are adding is a free photo ID if you don't happen to have one of the others. I don't see how that makes it "about the money"....

[John Smith]

This may be one of those things that sounds good, but I have some reservations. I don't trust the people proposing it.

Past that, I would welcome an ID if it included a thumbprint or such. When I renew my license, simply bringing my license doesn't seem good enough. It would be nice if all I had to bring was my thumb.

The question I would raise about a voter ID is not one so much of being able to prove one is a citizen, but proving that one is eligible to vote. Remember the purging in Florida.

If you come up with all your info, and your name is John Smith, and they find a John Smith with a criminal record, they may decline the card to all John Smiths, or select by race.

[genglandoh]

I think it's a fine idea... as long as the legislation which requires it, is passed at least 4 years before the requirement is instituted, in order to assure that everyone who wants to vote, and doesn't have a passport, licence, or other ID, can get one.

Passing such a law a few months in advance of an election is purely designed to help suppress the poor and disadvantaged vote; it's a political ploy.

I agree with your general point (I can not believe I just said that).
But I think 4 years is too long.
I would say 12 months before the required voter registration date for the next election is plenty of time to get an ID.

[wardd]

voter id is a solution in search of a problem

why is it that the right wants to throw roadblocks in the voting process?

ever since reconstruction, poll taxes, literacy tests and voter id has been for one reason, to keep THEM from voting

[S.V. Airlie]

No it is a separate ID..several states fought it at the time it was suggested..May be it fell through the cracks because the DMV did not want to take on the extra costs of producing it..Seriously, check it out. When I had to go to Nova Scotia to work on Airlie, I had two options..this new ID, in the works at the time, or a passport..I went with the passport.

[wardd]

[QUOTE=wardd;2946413]voter id is a solution in search of a problem

/QUOTE]

why is it that the right wants to throw roadblocks in the voting process?

ever since reconstruction, poll taxes, literacy tests and voter id has been for one reason, to keep THEM from voting[

[wardd]

lets get tough on election fraud, which is a problem

[S.V. Airlie]

http://www.ifly.com/airport-identification.. please note Duke..one requirement was a "state approved ID card" Nit a lic.. A lic. is a lic...But the term "lic" was not used in the requirements... Variations as to where you are flying to or from but I think the first paragraph is fairly explicit.

[Paul Pless]

Past that, I would welcome an ID if it included a thumbprint or such.

I guess that would work for anyone with a criminal background, 'course most felons can't vote anyway. . .



ID has never been an issue for me in Alabama, the volunteers at the polling place have all known me anyway, if it were a big deal, which its not. I haven't voted in Michigan yet, so am not sure of teh procedures here.

[Bruce Hooke]

To me a key question that those in favor of voter IDs should address is how many verified examples of voter fraud can anyone cite from recent elections where the fraud is of a variety that would have been prevented by a requirement to show an ID? From what I've heard the number is vanishingly small. If so, then as wardd said "voter id is a solution in search of a problem." Edited to add: If voter IDs are a "solution in search of a problem" then it seems to me that the people behind most calls for voter IDs are, in reality, not really that interested in preventing voter fraud. The real reason I think they want voter IDs is to disenfranchising voters who they think would support the other party.

[BrianW]

Well so far, one person from another country, Canada, has replied that they do require an ID.

Interested in hearing from others.

[John Smith]

I guess that would work for anyone with a criminal background, 'course most felons can't vote anyway. . .



ID has never been an issue for me in Alabama, the volunteers at the polling place have all known me anyway, if it were a big deal, which its not. I haven't voted in Michigan yet, so am not sure of teh procedures here.

It would let you vote by helping you prove you are not the Paul Press with a felony on your record.

[Bruce Hooke]

Question for the members of other countries.

Do you need to show an ID to vote in your country?

I think most industrialized countries have some form of national ID card that every adult is supposed to have. This completely changes the situation as regards needing to show an ID to vote since everyone should already have an ID.

[Uncle Duke]

No it is a separate ID..several states fought it at the time it was suggested..May be it fell through the cracks because the DMV did not want to take on the extra costs of producing it..Seriously, check it out. When I had to go to Nova Scotia to work on Airlie, I had two options..this new ID, in the works at the time, or a passport..I went with the passport.

I think what you are referring to was the often proposed / often dropped "National ID" program. That was never meant to replace passports, except possibly for travel to/from Canada, and it was never proposed as a "voter ID" mandate. It was one of those "nice idea, but nobody actually needs it and nobody (i.e. states) wants to pay to implement it". It also had huge security holes of it's own, which were well documented.

[wardd]

As the Republican Myth has it, nothing is more fraught with fraud than voter-registration campaigns waged in working-class and poor neighborhoods that are largely black or Hispanic. According to the 2004 Census, 15 percent of blacks and Hispanics were registered during such campaigns; the figure for whites is just 9 percent. But of those 38 prosecutions that the Justice Department brought between 2002 and 2005, a grand total of two were for fabricating or falsifying voter registration applications. This qualifies as one of our smaller crime waves.

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/16/voter-fraud-study/

[Bruce Hooke]

I have no problem with requiring an ID, as long as the process of getting an ID is not burdensome - i.e., does not disenfranchise some segment of otherwise eligible voters.

A key way that many voters would be likely to be disenfranchised is by requiring people to go the same place they go to get a drivers license in order to get the free voter ID card. This is not too big a deal in big cities with readily available public transportation. In rural areas it would be a very different story. In many rural areas the nearest registry of motor vehicles is an 30 minutes or more away by car and there is no public transportation of any sort. So, it seems to me that to be fair the free ID would need to be available in every post office or at the least at every town hall. I strongly suspect that this is not how it would be set up, however, because the cost would be much higher than if the free ID was issued via the same system as is used for drivers licenses.

[S.V. Airlie]

It was in leu of passports.. National ID is correct.. It was not used for voting purposes but I suppose could have been and in my original post on the subject Duke I never suggested it would replace either the passport or the voting ID..You have gone there and turned the issue around..Re read my post..it was for flying internationally most likely Canada and could be used in place of a passport. In theory, cheaper than a passport. If you see me referring to voting and having a specific ID in order to vote, such as the National ID, let me know.

[Uncle Duke]

It was in leu of passports.. National ID is correct.. It was not used for voting purposes but I suppose could have been and in my original post on the subject Duke I never suggested it would replace either the passport or the voting ID..You have gone there and turned the issue around..Re read my post..it was for flying internationally most likely Canada and could be used in place of a passport. In theory, cheaper than a passport. If you see me referring to voting and having a specific ID in order to vote, such as the National ID, let me know.

My mistake, then - I though this thread was about ID's and voting, and that you were addressing that issue.

[genglandoh]

How do you compare the voter to a list of eligible voters if they don't show ID...?

(Here we show ID to vote, and it seems to work fine.)

In the States where you do not need and ID it works the following way.
First you get you name and address on the voter list (register to vote).
No ID required.
Then on election day you just give them your name and address and vote.
Again no ID required.

[Ian McColgin]

In Connecticut, Oregon, New Hampshire and Massachuestts I had to show ID and some residency thing - tax bill or rent reciept or whatever - to register. I never actually had to show ID at the poll to vote. Note even a first time in a given town. Now, of course, I'm well known in my precinct so it's long past an issue.

I think that long term residents, such as those at 232 Sea Street, Hyannis should be able to vote.

HehHehHeh
That's the Oak Grove Cemetary.

But seriously, if

ALL voters are required to show ID; and if
ID requirements are satisfied by any positive ID including whatever it took to register or the voter registration card issued; and if
ALL voters are informed of the ID requirement when registering or reregistering; and if
Enough time for implementaiton (pursuant to third item above) is allowed for fair implementation; then
My opposition is only modest.

My opposition to the laws or changed practices we're seeing now is absolute as it's not even slightly related to any evidence of massive voter fraud but is a naked and rather openly admitted attempt to keep poor people from voting.

[S.V. Airlie]

I was discussing IDs in General..just used this one as an example especially as a poster brought up the idea that a card specicially for voting, or any purpose, may disenfranchise people.

And you quoted me in post 10 which expressly stated what the ID was for.

[Bruce Hooke]

How do you compare the voter to a list of eligible voters if they don't show ID...?

(Here we show ID to vote, and it seems to work fine.)

I was a poll worker in Rhode Island. Here is the way it worked:

A voter walked up to the table and gave their name. The poll worker looked up the name in the list of registered voters and if there was any doubt cross-checked the date of birth or address (e.g., for a common name or a situation where two people in a household have the same name). The poll worker was then supposed to announce the name loud enough for others in the room to hear. If anyone present had questions about whether the person was really who they said they were they could challenge them, but of course this never happened. So, the whole system does have an element of trust in it but it is really hard to come up with a scenario where someone would want to come in and try to vote under a false name enough to risk being caught. Since most voting takes place at local places within each community there is a good chance of someone being around who knows you when you walk in to vote, even in a city.

[S.V. Airlie]

About the same here Bruce although I did write above the usual exception..We had very small polling sites..I think three. As I mentioned, I was running for a local office and the rules they had to follow indicated that I needed an ID even though most if not all knew who I was etc.When the clerk called me by name and goggled while asking me for an ID, I just laughed.

[Waddie]

If you come up with all your info, and your name is John Smith, and they find a John Smith with a criminal record, they may decline the card to all John Smiths, or select by race.

[/QUOTE]

The voter lists now being used at the polling stations could be used just as easily to decline people in this way.

regards,
Waddie

[S.V. Airlie]

When I ran for office, I had to get a certain number of signatures in order to be put on a ballot. It never ceased to amaze me as to the number of individuals who signed petitions did not even know whether they were registered muchless could vote.. I gathered about 5xs the number of signatures needed knowing that a lot had no voting rights to vote...muchless sign a petition.

[wardd]

is the problem of voter fraud worth the expense of the cure?

[S.V. Airlie]

Kennedy might think so in 1960.

[genglandoh]

The voter requirements are controlled by state laws so each state is difference.
This is an old summary from 2008.

http://www.pewcenteronthestates.org/....laws.6.08.pdf
Voter ID laws
23 states and the District of Columbia currently have the minimum HAVA ID requirements - first-time voters who register by mail and do not provide ID verification with their registration must show ID before voting. Photo and non-photo ID accepted in these states. (CA, DC, ID, IL, IA, ME, MD, MA, MN, MS, NE, NV, NH, NJ, NY, NC, OK, OR, RI, UT, VT, WV, WI, WY)

18 states require ID for all voters. Photo and non-photo ID accepted in these states. (AL, AK, AZ, AR, CO, CT, DE, KY, MO, MT, NM, ND, OH, SC, TN, TX, VA, WA)

3 states require all voters show photo ID. Voters without the proper ID will be offered provisional ballots. (FL, GA, IN)

4 states request all voters show photo ID. Voters without the proper ID can sign affidavits and cast regular (non-provisional) ballots. (HI, LA, MI, SD)

2 states require ID of all first-time voters. Photo and non-photo ID accepted in these states. (KS, PA)

[htom]

When I lived in Minneapolis (and was an Independent-Republican party post holder) I was challenged every time I voted, had to produce a valid Minnesota or Federal government photo ID. Down here in Eagan, I've never been challenged.

That there is not a huge number of people convicted of voting improperly does not mean that such isn't happening. I suspect that it is, and that (in other than local elections) it is not really significant. We have "walk-in registration", and I suspect more improper votes occur from that (and again, in other than local elections, I am inclined to doubt it's significant.) When one party is getting 85% of the vote ... even wholesale fraud won't make much of a difference (unless it's that 85% that's the fraud, and that's the party that's opposed to requiring valid ID for all voters.)

Purple thumbs would solve most of the problem.

[B_B]

... The only change is that you now need it to go in/out of Canada instead of the previous "drivers license is good enough"...

Point of clarification (from: Canada Border Services):

Non-Canadians
When you enter Canada, a CBSA officer may ask to see your passport and a valid visa, if one is necessary. If you are a citizen of the United States, you do not need a passport to enter Canada. However, you should carry proof of your citizenship, such as a birth certificate, certificate of citizenship or naturalization, as well as photo identification.

You will, however, require a passport for re-entry into the United States.

[S.V. Airlie]

What about flights BB?

[B_B]

What about flights BB?

Not for entry into the country; you may be required to show your passport to get on the plane in the States, I don't know. I don't know why one wouldn't get one - the whole discussion about passport requirements seems rather silly, as does the requirement to show ID at a polling station.

I show my driver's license, they cross my name off the voter list, I get a pencil and a ballot, mark my X or exes as the case may be, give back the pencil then leave. Takes no time atall.

[Bill Griffin]

I don't have a problem with it. I live in a small town and ID has always been by personal recognition though.

[S.V. Airlie]

Well, there was a call for a National ID to replace the passport or to be used in leu of said document. Almost ent through but severl sttes screaming that such an ID would be an added expense to the residents living there and were contemplating a court case down the road.. I had no issue driving across the border between CA and the US but that was before this concept broke..Had to deal with Homeland Security...

[Captain Intrepid]

As it has been stated, we require ID to vote here, and it makes all manner of sense. I personally can't fathom the ethics of a voting process where you can simply walk up and vote for someone else.

[Ian McColgin]

It is hard for we of the white middle class to understand cultures within our greater society that do not routinely carry, often do not even have, the routine of identity papers - driver's license, credit cards, business cards, employee ID, etc. etc.

It's exactly like the "literacy tests" once used to prevent blacks from voting - imposed only to prevent a vote - a measure that purports to address a problem that even the proponents admit does not actually exist.

Were there an actual need and were there correct implementation would be one thing. Here there is neither.

[S.V. Airlie]

So Ian, what is the excuse those you mention above for not carrying ID? I'm not referring to CCards. I'm referring to a basic ID..something with a picture on it..Hell, anything to identify who they are. If they register to vote, I suspect thathaving an ID would be manditory...to get it.

[Uncle Duke]

Well, there was a call for a National ID to replace the passport or to be used in leu of said document. Almost ent through but severl sttes screaming that such an ID would be an added expense to the residents living there and were contemplating a court case down the road.. I had no issue driving across the border between CA and the US but that was before this concept broke..Had to deal with Homeland Security...

I think that there is some confusion here (and I may have helped start it).
I suspect that what you are referring to is not the "national ID", more properly known as "REAL ID", but the "PASS" passport card:

The passport card (previously known as the People Access Security Service Card, or PASS Card) is an alternative to a passport produced in the United States to meet the documentary requirements of the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative. The U.S. Passport Card is a wallet-size travel document, issued to U.S. citizens only, that can be used to enter the United States from Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean, and Bermuda at land border crossings or sea ports-of-entry and is more convenient and less expensive than a passport book. The passport card cannot be used for international air travel.

This is a different thing - it's in place and in use by those who want/need it.

Applications have been accepted since February 1, 2008; the cards were made available to the public beginning in July 2008. As of March 2010, more than 2,700,000 Passport Cards had been issued to U.S. citizens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passport_card

[S.V. Airlie]

No Duke I'm not. I'm asking Ian who is already digging up excuses why anyone can not or does not acquire an ID for voting purposes. We, I think we are off the National ID..

and on the side, the last quote above ( don't know who wrote it ) is correct.

[Hot Air]

Those cultures that do not carry IDs need to show sensitivity to my culture that does carry IDs and does not appreciate elections being stolen by people voting illegally. No justice no peace.

[Tom Montgomery]

The problem is that an ID can be misplaced, lost, stolen, destroyed, etc.

How about if we implant a scannable microchip in every newborn infant? The technology exists; we can do so with our pets.

[S.V. Airlie]

Hot I would but I have no idea where you are from. Can't show sensitivity to you and others. The above posts refer to US voting....I have no idea where your IDs from your country are not accepted..If you have an example, post it.