New Shop ideas please

[skuthorp]

I've almost reached the stage of fitting out my shop. Suggestions as to layout would be welcome. Space is 30x40ft approx. Concrete floor. 6"x6" steel pillars at 8' spacing, 25 ton rated I beams 15' above. I plan to install a chain hoist to facilitate moving and turning.
I had thought of having several wheeled benches and tool racks, pull-down power from above. Apart from that everything is open, as is the space at the moment. Wont be back till monday so maybe references for suitable books or info on what fellow forumites have done would be easy.
Thanks, Jeff

[Wild Dingo]

mongrel

mmmm sorry about that Jeff ol son had a momentary lapse of jealousy envy whatever you want to call it... ooooh Id give me left knut for a shed like that I WOULD!!! My bloody oath I would

Not gonna tell yer how you should be layin it out... but remember the long thin benches for layin out the long scarf joints... an then you need to make room for the Bandsaw, lathe, thicknesser, jointer table saw, timber racks, an area for finishing more benches... NOpe not gonna tell you nuffin!! damn I hate you!! little mongrel Victorian gnome [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[skuthorp]

Shane the 'shed' is under the house, the same one I've been slaving away renovating, all of it. Now it's my turn. Wont finish the ELF for this summer, but shell be almost new for Goolwa in 2007. Thought I might build a Guide Boat too but the standard on the forum pics scares me a bit. I'm not that good at it

[JimConlin]

It would be useful to know what kinds of things get worked on and what your methods, materials and processes are. For example, my current shop space-taker is a 26' x 2' trimaran ama and i couldn't be without a large table for vacuum bagging and glass cutting. Others have different odd needs.

[skuthorp]

I guess I'll work mostly in wood, planks and ply. I like to use hand tools and have quite a collection. In spite of my limited skills the process is as important as the result. I run a computer as a living and the hand work is great therapy. In spite of that I have a band saw and the usual small power tools.

[Popeye]

my first inclination would be to get SWMBO a 20 year old

[Stephen Hutchins]

Some reminders of some well known stuff: Set up tools and storage to facilitate a minumum of material movement. Wheels on everything is exellent for experiments. Try to use the same heights. Try to use single parts for multiple uses. (Outfeed table as router table, etc.) I like to mount alot of tools on the wall, closly spaced-- like a jigsaw puzzle-- and trace them if anyone else uses the shop. I also use tool bags for onboard the boats. Let's see, what else... lighting is very important to me. Also, padding on the floor at work stations. Dust control, ventilation, and temp control are some other considerations if you got the money.

[Hal Forsen]

If you are actually going to be working in the shop I would suggest you cover the concrete floor with plywood or similar. Standing on concrete all day is really hard on the body and dropped tools.
A wood floor is also much nicer for lofting and attaching building forms to.

HF

[essaunders]

Concrete floors = bad. I dropped a plane yesterday and now I have to try to fix the dented corners.

[Bruce Hooke]

Concrete floors are not great, but they are all I've ever had, and it seems like most commercial shops have concrete floors too. Certainly laying down a wood floor is a nice way to go if you have the time and money, but a pad to stand on next to the workbench and ideally at tools that you will spend a lot of time at is a much cheaper and quicker solution. Remember, don't let making the perfect shop become the goal (unless you want that to be the goal), the goal of most people is to make stuff!

Is your shop really interupted by an 8' grid of pillars? That to me is going to be MUCH more of a pain than a concrete floor, but, of course, you probably cannot do much about those pillars.

Play around a lot on paper with different tool arrangements so that you can test out things like 'if I need to rip a long board on the tablesaw do I have the infeed and outfeed space and will I hit other tools...'

[skuthorp]

Hi, back from the weekend. Yes, the pillars have to stay but theyre far enough apart for anything I'm likely to build. Could do a wood floor for part of the space. New SWMBO sounds like more trouble than I've gotten already. Like the standard height idea.
Thought I'd make a long bench with one or two narrow removable modules, rip saw etc to be mounted on matching wheeled sectionsthat slot in. I intend to have separate lock-up space for most tools, there is a salt air problem too.
First project is the hull of an Outred Elf that I started 18 months or so ago. Made lots of it's parts, the rig, etc. just have to stick 'em all together now.

[Hal Forsen]

Bob Smalser's suggestion of cold bluing tools and cast iron table tops is a really great idea. I live about 1/4 mile from the ocean and I've not had any rust problems since the application of the bluing.
HF

[skuthorp]

Hal, thanks for the blueing idea, don't think I can manage cast iron benches though! I have an idea I'd like to build the Welsford Yawl in July/Aug issue of Watercraft and I might take this as the standard setter for the shop. Good a way to do it as any. At 62 I'd rather be building and sailing than over-building a shop.

[ 09-12-2005, 01:18 AM: Message edited by: skuthorp ]

[Hal Forsen]

I'm talking about the tool tables, band saw, table saw, jointer..... not work benches!
HF

[Gerald]

One of the main tools in my shop is the ten cylinder Wayne/Dresser air compressor. Air tools almost never wear out, and in the long haul are cheaper. Glass bead blasting, sand blasting etc. etc.is also possible.
Gerald

[skuthorp]

Sorry, I've been up 5 nights in a row watching cricket, I'm aboput 20 hours behind in sleep. Thank goodness it's over!. I hadn't really considered air tools, but now I'll look into it.

[Gerald]

Just to give you an idea.......... I have an air file with a 50 cm board that has 12mm of soft rubber backing. The air file only moves forward and back. On a hot day I have a problem because it freezes. However, normally it sands in a back and forth motion in one minute what a person would do in ??? Great for when you want to true a hull. Other air tools include drills, orbital sanders, vibrating sanders, air chisels, sand blasting units, die grinders, rotary sanders etc. etc. In my opinion all worth the investment and you can install air outlets on every post. My compressor will pump 200 psi so I can tell you first hand that PVC pipe sucks!
Good Luck
Gerald

[Gerald]

One other note:
Enter a major manufacturing facility and you won't hear one power tool powered by electricity. What do they know that we don't?
Gerald

[JimConlin]

When i get a bigger shop, there will be a bench along the longest wall. It'll include a RAS i've been saving for the purpose and will have a couple of vises. It will be used for rough cutting stock to length, spar building and working out planks and other long members.
Everything else will be moveable.

[pipefitter]

Yeah,we have concrete floors in our shop and mostly air tools. The secret to working on concrete is good shoes.I like the pneumatic sanding tools for finish work better than the electric.Plus the air reciprocating saw kicks butt over dragging out the sawzall.Standard hacksaw blades replace the dinky ones that come with the tool.Die grinders and all that too.Could also put electric outlets at those posts as well as air and moisture traps.If you have wheel benches you will need the retractables or locking wheels.Nothing worse than going to heft something heavy on a table and have it try to run away on ya.

[Gerald]

In the part of the shop where the boat is under construction I have a valley a little more than two meters deep and a little over a meter wide. The keel and rudder extend down in the valley. That allows me to enter the boat, which we do many times per day, at a much lower level. When your not building boats you can cover the hole with boards or use it to change the oil in your car.
Gerald

[skuthorp]

Thanks everyone, Things there I wouldn't have considered. Is there any advantage to having my wall-length bench (20ft) free standing? I would build it with a couple of walk-throughs if so.

[JimConlin]

I figure that the more firmly it's affixed to a wall, the better the chance of it being straight, which is nice for spar making.

[ 09-17-2005, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: JimConlin ]

[Steven R]

If you own a copy of Visio, you may find this helpful for laying out the shop.

Woodshop Visio

Steven

[David W Pratt]

Dust collector
and I don't mean an unfinished project.
It is a convenience/quality/health item
And next on my wish list
Good luck

[Bruce Hooke]

While I have a compressor and I have started to add some air tools, I do think that someone who is setting up a small non-commercial shop should look carefully at the costs & benefits of air tools before going down that road.

If there are functions for which you NEED to have an air compressor (e.g., if you are planning to spray paint or do lots of laminating for which you need a pneumatic stapler) then it is pretty obvious that it makes sense to get other air tools as well because to spray paint you are going to need to get a good compressor anyway. Otherwise, the investment to buy a good compressor and run lines around the shop is not small, and if you also plan to use the tools off-site then you may well need a second, smaller portable compressor.

I'm not saying that the air tool route is a bad idea, I'm just saying that, for example, if I had to choose between:

A. Getting a bandsaw and a selection of the usual hand electric tools or

B. Getting a good compressor and air tools instead of electric tools, but no bandsaw, **

I'd go for the bandsaw and some hand electric tools any day.

**I think the cost of these two options would end up being pretty similar if you got a compressor capable of sustained use for high air-volume tasks like sanding and spraying paint.

When you do go to get an air compressor make sure you get one that is up to what you want to do. I'm fairly certain that some of the uses mentioned in previous posts are not compatible with the usual small compressors that many of us have in our home workshops.

[Peter Page]

Shed sounds great. 8ft is your towing width anyway. Don't buy tools, buy wood and ply. need to borrow tools give me a ring, I might have what you want. Long bench is a good idea, fix it too a wall.
Peter

[Wild Dingo]

Well I got the itch today thank you kindly to our young sprog up there the noble young Jeff Skuthorp

Yes indeedy I did... got fed up with waitin for the $$ to come in to buy me a ubeaut ripsnorter bobby dazzler monster shed and watchin the damned list of hers grow to insane proportions!!

So I lifted a tarp over one end of the humpy down the back... just that plastic crap for now to keep the wind and rain out... will do bedda down the track promise! and then to work creating a "floor" above the ground so 4 lengths of 6mtr x 12in x 2in Sepeture later and Im layin 1/2in ply!!! Gawd those air nail guns are a hoot!! love it!! phiiist phiiist done easy as and floor down

So seein that done got me all inspired and caused young Aaron to get that look in his eye... the dreaded "gawd strewth whats the old buggar want now" look... so walkin me boy around to the sea tainer an openin the doors spreadin me arms wide I say "see that table saw sonshine?" "mmm yer... so?" "Well mate it doesnt live there anymore!! No Im givin it a birfdy party!" "mmm eeerr yer right dada" "yeah mate never bedda! So yer gonna hoist that thing onta yer shoulda an whack er on the new ubeaut floor in the humpy for me or stand there all day?" "eerr dada?" "yeah?" "well da its errrrr ummm well its..." "yeah yeah I know yer daft buggar its heavy oooohhh sooky lala eh dont worry liddle fella I will help yer carry it" the look of amazed relief was almost palpable on his dial

So as he began to get ready to lift it... yer too right the galah was gonna try hoistin it an carry it!! bloody dopey git!... I went an got the trolly an bought it around "lets do this smart eh?" "ohh right hahaha didnt think of that eh da" "nah somethings come with age mate... like brains" didnt register for a bit and by then we had moved the thing to its new home

So we spent the next 3 hours settin it up... puttin its sliding table on checking this an that... then ran an extention lead out there plugged her in an arced her up!... man what a sweet sound!!

Next the gear in the sea tainer gets hoisted out into the yard and I go in search of all the other tools hiding down the back... while Im doin that the young fella will be hoistin the bench into the humpy!! 9ft x 2ft x 3ft high solid Tuart bench is NOT a one man lift!!

But at least now I have a "shed" of sorts... and will be settin myself up so I can get stuck into some seriass woodbutcherin!! boat buildin house fixin furniture makin baby gear makin whooooooooeee gonna be some sawdust amakin out there... mmm as long as the rain buggars off... an the power is good enough to arc em up... an the aahhh buggar that negative stuff!!

I gots me a work area!!

Oh pinched the missus solid pine sideboard thing I built her a couple of years back and am gonna convert it into a table for the lathe! Will have to build a router table an a couple of long benches but then Ive got this old Jarrah dining table thats sorta lookin like it needs alterin... if I can snuffle it outta the house while shes out!!

Cheers for the momentum Jeff!

[David Showalter]

Try this link to use their workshop planner.
http://www.grizzly.com/workshopplanner.cfm

[Paul Scheuer]

Gerald wrote:

Enter a major manufacturing facility and you won't hear one power tool powered by electricity. What do they know that we don't?

In my company they found that the electrics went home in the lunch boxes faster than they could buy them. Air does have a lot of advantages. I see more and more in the stores available to the home shop.

My shop suggestion would be to think throught the lighting. Mine would be considered temporary. Flourescents with line cords, hanging from chains. I've found that I prefer to have some lights centered over anything that has to be symetrical. If I can't position the work, I can position the lighting.

[skuthorp]

Great stuff Shane, glad I've inspired you. Don't know that I'll run to a lathe, my nephew is a fitter and turner and can run up anything I'm likely to need. I have a good collection of hand tools and really enjoy using them. I have a bandsaw though not as good a one as I'd like. I'll buy a thicknesser and a compressor with maybe a sanding attatchment to start with. Have a lot of the other stuff courtesy of house renovations and yes I will install a dust extractor, my sinuses are aching from dust as I type!
Paul My power sources and lighting will be drop-down fittings, all easily moveable as your suggested flourescent set up plus a couple of portable spots.

I'm very flattered at the attention my enquiries have elicited and thank you all very much, your'e a great bunch, I must get myself to a US WB show and meet some of you.
[img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 09-19-2005, 05:05 AM: Message edited by: skuthorp ]

[Sailor]

MMMM A 30 by 40 foot shop.... Do I sound jealous? I'm not My barn is 30x40 and i have the same problem as you. how do I set up a shop? My brother came in a xmas and rigged up some juice. I have 10 light bulbs on 2 switches all on one circuit. then I have 2 sets of 4 plugs each on their own circuit. (60 amps to the barn) I have an old table saw that my father in law gave me. The lights are arranged in 2 rows of 5 so the strongback to the boats (18 foot redbird canoe for now followed by a catspaw then........)is centered between the rows. Next I built a bench. AHHH the bench. 2 sheets of 1 inch mdf ripped up the center to give me 32 feet of workbench. There's a bench grinder at one end and plans for at least 1 vise somwhere along the bench. Probably near the grinder at the end to keep the bench clear (Ha! I still have not done any more than set up the strongback and moulds and I know there is no such thing as a clear bench in a boat shop) There were old kitchen cabinets and drawers in the bottom of the barn so I took them up top and installed them under the bench. It's pretty cool because 4 of the electrical plugs are on the roof trusses at a 45 or whatever the roof is at. the other 4 are on the rafters. This keeps them near the work space where I'll need them but also keeps them out of the way. I'm still in the market for a router table (Got thoughts of building one to fit the router I have) A bandsaw and a thickness planer. I have no place for wood storage yet but it's in the works. If anyone has any ideas for that let's have em. I guess part of the problem is that I have never built a boat and don't really know what I'll be needing to keep on hand. Planking stock for whatever I am building for sure but what else? tips guys? There's a trap door in the floor and It's big enough to get my catspaw out once she's finished. I need a dust collection system of sorts as well as a way to keep the place clean enough to be able to fiberglass in there. Maybe I could paint the inside of the barn white to help keep it clean and bright? I'll probably need 220 V in there eventually as well. That can come later though. Are there any other tools I will need that I have not mentioned? jointer air compressor etc? thanks guys