Building the Maid

[Sailor]

Could you not just use thickened epoxy and glue them on? Of course you drive screws, rivets etc whatever your going to do through the frames. This way, you don't put holes through the plank right beside the frame holes for nails ( I'll presume you're going to rivet her). You still have the connection of the thickened epoxy, which is out of the sun so less prone to fail ( according to Larry, it's the sun that causes this to happen so down there it shouldn't be an issue) If it fails, you're still riveted through the frames RIGHT NEXT to the floors and you don't pierce the floor's endgrain possibly promoting rot. I think this is an area where even a traditionalist (you and I both) can agree that it would be acceptable to use the googe.
Caveat, I'm not an expert and have yet to build so take my advice with a grain of salt and wait until the big guns chime in.

[BBSebens]

I am still undecided on whether to fasten planking into the floors or not. For strength reasons I want to. I do not think that flexibility is desirable at this location. With the floors bolted to the frames it should all be fairly rigid. Certainly where the planking enters the rabbet it is rigid, because the keel isn't going to flex much with that lead beam bolted on the bottom. In fact, if the frames slip at all relative to the floors I think the garboard will leak pretty substantially. So for strength I want to fasten them, and if I go that route I like the idea of bronze ring nails.

On the other hand I am hesitant to do it because of starting rot in the end grain. Piercing the end grain with a fastener that is likely to be highly stressed does not seem prudent to longevity. Wet-dry cycles at haulout seem particularly damaging to this kind of fastening. Thanks for checking the Concordia Chuck, if anyone else has firsthand experience with plank floors on steam bent frames I'd love to get a feel for what more the old timers did in this situation.

My uneducated opinion: I think you may be over-thinking this. As much as I admire your thoroughness and forward thinking, this ultimately is not a blue-water boat, nor is it thaaat big. I suspect that fastening to the frames alone would be more than sufficient.

[Redeye]

Thats what I did on my mast at every screw and through-bolt. Straight outa the Gougeon Bros book.

Yup that's what I did also on every hole i drilled for any fitting on the skiff. all deck hardware is screwed down with epoxy in the screw holes first. Every hole in the mast got the same treatment. Holes in the mast for the hounds were coated on the inside then left to cure, then resized back to original size.

[J.Madison]

Update time:

When I left you last, the rabbet aft looked something like this.



It had not been cut at all. So I spend some tedious time getting it ready for planking.



That completed, I lined out the garboard plank. It ended up being a foot tall at its highest point and tapering to a 1.5" nib halfway down the boat. This wedge shape brings the planking to within an inch of parallel with the tuck so the planks above it can have mostly parallel sides. For a better description see Larry Pardey's book. The best section in that whole book is on lining out in my opinion.

So you would think that I'd be happily fitting garboards at this point, but I must take you down a bit of a rabbit trail. I decided that I needed some instant gratification. The timeline on this boat (my timeline for being sailing is measured in years) has got me feeling like finishing a project is some distant abstraction that could never possibly be real. To disprove that thought, and prove that finishing a project is a distinct possibility, I have started a wheelbarrow boat.

I saw the design in the shantyboat article and was taken by it. Turns out that a "how-to" article was written on construction a while back. So I laid into it. The project is being done in what I consider the way wooden boats ought to be built. It will be constructed completely from scrap cedar and oak cut in my neighborhood. Fastenings are galvanized boat nails, with the exception of the copper riveted plank laps.



It took a lot of force to bend the garboards in so I used a spanish windless setup.





This is rough and dirty work, and I love it. I realize that not everyone can work this way but I am sure glad that I can. I think that this is what the old small boat shops were like, a builder living close to the forest- using wide planks and working quickly with galvanized nails. Nobody else had their forest cut down and exported to build this boat. No lumber yard costs or high expense for anything. I don't care if it lasts 10 years instead of 20. It took me about three days of work to get from an idea to this point. Three days! That much work on the Maid would barely be noticeable.

Fear not, I will shortly be back to leaning my weight into the planking on the Maid, and I'll have myself a wheelbarrow boat to mess around with on breaks.

Here's one more pic to prove that I still love her:

[Terry Haines]

It'll make a handy tender for the Maid!

[Bob Perkins]

This is still in the top 3 threads all time.
and I can't tell you what the other 2 were at the moment..
Thanks for taking the time for us

[Larks]

Brilliant!!

[BBSebens]

This is still in the top 3 threads all time.
and I can't tell you what the other 2 were at the moment..
Thanks for taking the time for us

My vote is Lenihan's Thread and Ledger's Catboat thread.

As far as which one is in which place? I don't think they really compare. Its 3 different ways of approaching a build, all executed well. And thats what makes the WoodenBoat Forum such a great place.

Keep up the work Jonathon!

[shade of knucklehead]

Nobody expects the Spanish inquisition...

Most people don't even know what a Spanish windlass is. Looking good.

[Duncan Gibbs]

I love this shot:



Four boats together: Two in frame, one just about finished and a completed lovely just in picture on the RHS.

Splendid work Mr Madison!

[BBSebens]

There's another one just outside the roll-up door providing the white glare. You can make out its bottom paint.

5 boats in one picture!! Its a sickness in the fullest sense!

[J.Madison]

5 boats in one picture!! Its a sickness in the fullest sense!

Yeah, yeah. I have a problem. I know. There are also several more that were not present on picture day.

[BBSebens]

The first step is admitting you have a problem. The next step ... is figuring out where to put the next boat!

[ILikeRust]

5 boats in one picture!! Its a sickness in the fullest sense!

...and a Lotus Esprit just to prove it.

[chuckt]

[QUOTE=BBSebens;3313953]My vote is Lenihan's Thread and Ledger's Catboat thread.

QUOTE]

Agree. I'll add Svaap

[Sailor]

I couldn't pick just three, there's a schooner thread that is slowly wending it's way through construction that I can't get enough of either.

[harald]

Hei Jonathan,
tried to look up the plan/instructions for the wheelbarrow boat, could not find it though. Would you care to post a reference to where you found it?

Harry

[J.Madison]

Certainly. Here is the link to the plans.

http://www.harrybryan.com/harrybryan/plan13.html

Here is a shot of one completed by another forum member.


The oars serve double duty as the 'barrow handles and there is a permanent wheel mounted in that well up front.

Building plans and instructions also show up in WoodenBoat issue #209. Digital copies are available from our host for about three bucks. I wrote to Harry Bryan and asked him if buying the magazine also bought me the rights to build the boat, as the complete plans are included. I was prepared to also buy plans from him if he said that was necessary, but I have not heard back. Of course a boat builder known for working off the grid probably does not check his email often.

[Duncan S]

Hello, my name is Duncan and I have 4 ½ boats. A month ago or so, influenced by Dylan Winter I was very tempted to build a Duck punt; I resisted and am proud of myself.

5 in one picture – you poor thing

[Mad Scientist]

I'll 'join the chorus' - this is one of my all-time favourite threads, too. The 'Heart of Gold II Rebuild' thread is another.

Radically different boats, but both threads are well-written, and well-photographed, too!

Tom

[Duncan Gibbs]

Hello, my name is Duncan and I have 4 ½ boats. A month ago or so, influenced by Dylan Winter I was very tempted to build a Duck punt; I resisted and am proud of myself.

5 in one picture – you poor thing

Hello, my name is Duncan (too! ) and I have 3 boats: One Mirror, one Sabot knock off that needs work, one plastic yak. I have most of the makings (in timber) for a 30 foot double ender & a 17' Atkin Krazy Kat, and will soon have an International Dragon in the shed.

The Sickness!

[PeterSibley]

An absolutely brilliant thread, informative and extremely interesting !

Jonathon, thank you very much for taking the time to present your work !

[Terry Haines]

My small sailboat has a wheel that fits into the daggerboard trunk; I also use the oars as handles for my own boatbarrow!

http://theancientkayaker.weebly.com/...61/7378121.jpg

[J.Madison]

I bought myself some planking clamps from Rick Conant. You've seen his ad in the back of the mag. If you fancy some for yourself, set aside a chunk of time and give the guy a call. He is a great guy to talk to, although you may need a few minutes. We got to talking and it turns out that he once owned Atkin's original Ben Bow. He is a mechanical engineer (my field of study) and a gentleman on top of it. He shipped out some clamps to me before my check ever hit his mailbox.

Here the clamps are being used to cross plank the bottom of the barrow boat.


The planks are splined with dry, clear cedar. The planks themselves were airdried on stickers for a couple years and then stored vertically outside after that. They should have a nice equilibrium moisture content.

I planked up from each end and met in the middle with a shutter plank. I made it slightly wedge shaped and fit the splines then slid the shutter into place. The wedge shape assured that it snugged up tight to a watertight joint.



Knots were sealed with thickened epoxy and the whole thing got a coat of blue paint.



Planking has begun on the Maid as well. I made a pattern out of cheap plywood for the garboard and then got it out of the cedar. My cedar stock is 8/4 which means that this whole boat will likely be planked in bookmatched planks. So I used the pattern to cut out the stock and then resawed it into the two garboards. Here is a shot of the first fit. It isn't perfect but its not too bad either.



I made up those clamp extensions out of some oak offcuts. I have decided that the biggest difference between experienced and beginning boat builders is that the experienced folks have many more creative ways of clamping things. I am slowly learning the tricks.



I won't use a pattern for most of the planks, I will spile them in the normal way. It made sense to use a pattern here though, because the majority of the bottom is a straight line that then transitions into a quick radius. This made it quick and accurate to scribe a pattern.

[Redeye]

Hoooray the first plank.

I hope you celebrated suitably?

This is a great build and an inspiring thread, Jonathan.

[ILikeRust]

OK, well if you continue at the rate you were at before, we can expect that whiskey plank by, oh, thursday-friday?

[BBSebens]

I have decided that the biggest difference between experienced and beginning boat builders is that the experienced folks have many more creative ways of clamping things. I am slowly learning the tricks.

Nice observation. Now that you mention it, this has been my experience as well.

[stephenlneal]

The same thing happens in Luthery! What a joy it is to see your solutions along the way!

[JoshuaIII]

Nice to see the planking going up! Enjoy the cedar, as it does let you do some clamping this way...

It was impossible with my Quarter sawn BC Fir... A maul and oak wedge was the only way in that area

[Sailor]

Mr. Madison, this build is an incredible piece of work. Plus you've had time to build a tender on the side to boot. Congratulations and I hope you keep us in mind as you progress, photograph and post. Often!
Daniel

[epoxyboy]

Planking has begun on the Maid as well. Here is a shot of the first fit. It isn't perfect but its not too bad either.

Yep - I reckon there are gaps there I could just about get a finger nail into there


Pete

[chuckt]

Awesome! that's got to feel great. That fit looks really nice.

What is the function of the funny shaped pot and the spoon?

[Bob Cleek]

I am still undecided on whether to fasten planking into the floors or not. For strength reasons I want to. I do not think that flexibility is desirable at this location. With the floors bolted to the frames it should all be fairly rigid. Certainly where the planking enters the rabbet it is rigid, because the keel isn't going to flex much with that lead beam bolted on the bottom. In fact, if the frames slip at all relative to the floors I think the garboard will leak pretty substantially. So for strength I want to fasten them, and if I go that route I like the idea of bronze ring nails.

On the other hand I am hesitant to do it because of starting rot in the end grain. Piercing the end grain with a fastener that is likely to be highly stressed does not seem prudent to longevity. Wet-dry cycles at haulout seem particularly damaging to this kind of fastening. Thanks for checking the Concordia Chuck, if anyone else has firsthand experience with plank floors on steam bent frames I'd love to get a feel for what more the old timers did in this situation.

I think it is a matter of opinion whether plank should be fastened to floors. To my mind, I think it probably depends upon the preferences of the builder. I am more familiar with plank being fastened only to frames, and the keel rabet, of course. I would put myself in the "not to fasten plank to floors" school of thought, although I do know some do and some with far greater credentials that I have recommend it. My reasons are:

1) More fasteners don't necessarily make for a stronger boat. Every fastener makes a hole and reduces the integrity of the wood piece. The more holes you have in a plank, the more likely it is to split along the grain. The more holes in a floor, the more likely it is to rot.

2) You'd be fastening into end grain on the floors, which is rather pointless. The screws won't really hold as they should, so whatever "strength" you're adding is going to be greatly reduced to begin with. You won't be gaining as much as you think.

3) By far, the tension on plank fastenings is in sheer. If you put a couple of fastenings per plank into the frames, that will be more than sufficient, as will screwing into your garboard rabet. I've never seen a broken plank fastening. (Corroded, sure, but not broken by sheer forces.)

4) Someday, somebody, will likely have to pull a floor to repair it. If they have to pull the garboard to repair a floor timber, they will curse your offspring for generations.

5) The majority of garboard seam problems in smaller wooden sailing craft are the result of improper rig tensioning. File that under "pilot error." Your boat is too small to hog. As long as nobody tries to drive the heel of the mast through the top of the keel by cranking down on the standing rigging, she ought to be just fine for a long, long time.

Other people may have other opinions. I'd suggest you PM Greer and ask him what he thinks. He's got more miles on him than the rest of us combined.

********************************************

In another post, you mentioned, "I have not kept track of expenses or time, a luxury reserved for the amateur." DON'T DO THAT! DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT~ SAVE EVERY RECEIPT. KEEP A LOG OFF YOUR TIME. When you go to register her, if WA is anything like anyplace else, they are going to try to value the boat and charge some kind of registration tax on it. They can't tax you twice for the materials you bought, or the lumber you cut and milled yourself. Without documentation of your labor and the materials costs, the registration tax is going to be based on the market value of the boat. It's like when you sell a house and have capital gains tax exposure. If you have documentation of all the costs of improvements to the house, that comes off your reportable capital gains.

[floatingkiwi]

Looking at this shot, (dunno why I didn't see it before), it would be pointless to drive screws through the planks into the floors. I agree with Bob here that to put screws there would be a waste of time and contribute to little but problems.

[J.Madison]

What is the function of the funny shaped pot and the spoon?

That is my pot of parrafin wax and its ladle, left out from sealing the ballast bolt holes. Its actually an old boy scout camping pot I think.

Bob and others,

Based on your input I am probably not going to fasten the planking into the floor timbers. It does not seen like it would gain me very much.

Stephane, I like that clamp system with the wedge. I think I will build at least one to be sure I get a good fit.

Planking has not continued, as I have been focusing on the wheelbarrow boat.



I flipped it over, made off the lap rivets, and framed out. There is a limber hole left at the lap on each frame. I put in the simplest quarter knees I could think of- straight ones, and knocked together the wheel well. The wheel I will be using is a pretty wide affair so the box is a bit bigger than designed. The wide wheel should work well in sand and will give a bit more flotation as well.







You can see the wheel that will be used sitting under the boat.
Another weekend or two and it will be finished, then its back to the real job at hand- planking the Maid.

[Sailor]

Yawn... Stretch. "HMMMMM. Should I plank the Maid today? Or should I work on a wheelbarrow boat?" Ah the difficult choices we have to make.

[P.L.Lenihan]

Yawn... Stretch. "HMMMMM. Should I plank the Maid today? Or should I work on a wheelbarrow boat?" Ah the difficult choices we have to make.

It could be worse,Sailor.....ya know.... like....will I work on my canoe today or crack open another Garrison. At least Jonathan is actually building something, nudge,nudge,wink,wink...



Cheers!
Peter

[A.Greever]

It could be worse,Sailor.....ya know.... like....will I work on my canoe today or crack open another Garrison. At least Jonathan is actually building something, nudge,nudge,wink,wink...



Cheers!
Peter

Ouch!

[Sailor]

Last nigth I glued on my inwales. They're permanently fitted now. I have been making progress and will continue to make progress. I do admit it is glacial though. Maybe I should update my thread a bit.

[Pete E]

Maybe I should update my thread a bit..............

Yep......

[Sailor]

Done, Pete.

[J.Madison]

Launch day!

I'm leaving the country for a few weeks tomorrow but I wanted to launch the 'barrow boat first. I didn't even have time to give it the final coats of finish.


The interior is finished with a boat soup mixture- pine tar, linseed oil, and turpentine heated in a double boiler and applied hot. True to its design it rolls along very nicely on rough ground.

The local river is at flood stage, but that just means more water to explore.




This is a VERY little boat. I noticed that I need to move the oarlocks more aft for better trim.

My dad was pretty concerned so he put on three coats, a life jacket and a coast guard helmet with an emergency strobe on it.



There is no way you are ever getting three people in this boat. It is really best with one. If you are considering building this, build the 7 foot version.



It works much better without passengers.



And there's a shot showing the wheel.

Now if I survive a couple weeks on the wild streets of Rio de Janeiro, it'll be back to full power on the much neglected planking job.

[floatingkiwi]

Good little boat mate.
Say, what is the formidable looking , orange hued, giant carp thing in the water behind your Dads back?

[ILikeRust]

Good little boat mate.
Say, what is the formidable looking , orange hued, giant carp thing in the water behind your Dads back?

I would venture a guess that that is an example of the deadly dreaded wild river lens flare.

[headonz]

Considering the direction of the sun I'd say life jacket reflection.

[P.L.Lenihan]

Naw, it is the fourth coat his Dad tried to get on, but couldn't, that was tossed overboard at the last minute.

I think.........



Cheers!


Peter

[Sailor]

Wait.... Did he say he'd be away fro 2 weeks? How will we get our maid fix?

[Wacoflyr]

Wait.... Did he say he'd be away fro 2 weeks? How will we get our maid fix?

This is a problem that every man must solve on his own, but I find that it helps to be nice to them, and bring them flowers or something... They like it iif you can show them a sense of humor. You'll work something out. When in doubt, be bold! Faint heart never won fair maiden.

[Larks]

Wait.... Did he say he'd be away fro 2 weeks? How will we get our maid fix?

here you go mate:

[P.L.Lenihan]

Now you've done it Greg. Sailor and MoMan will be hitting the local brasseries, sporting their LPBC, and waiting for the magic to strike....again! Playing with fire they are!

Two weeks without any build pictures from Jonathan is going to be tough though......



Cheers!

Peter