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Thread: Oceanic Spritsail AKA alpha dory sprit

  1. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
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    northern new jersey, usa
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    796

    Default Re: Oceanic Spritsail AKA alpha dory sprit

    Some guy on this thread claims to have done smoke tests on a crab claw, and they occassionally worked. I think the thread is referring more to the oceanic lateen shunting type sail than to the oceanic sprit though.

    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boa...ail-24701.html

    If it was just for "flare", or conspicuous consumption, I wonder why that exact type of impractical excess (the "claw" shape at the leech) would be so widespread over such isolated areas? The designs of the canoes themselves varied so much, why would most of the sails have had similar shapes if not for some good reason?
    “The difference between an adventurer and anybody else is that the youthful embrace of discovery, of self or of the world, is not muted by the responsibilities or the safety-catches of maturity.” Jonathan Borgais

  2. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Waterbury, Connecticut
    Posts
    2,002

    Default Re: Oceanic Spritsail AKA alpha dory sprit

    Quote Originally Posted by peterchech View Post
    ..If it was just for "flare", or conspicuous consumption, I wonder why that exact type of impractical excess (the "claw" shape at the leech) would be so widespread over such isolated areas? The designs of the canoes themselves varied so much, why would most of the sails have had similar shapes if not for some good reason?
    --- Yes, it is a weak hypothesis, but I keep it out there in case big crabclaw shape categories might have a regional tinge (and then still better idea is that regional wind/water dictated the shape). Prow decorations are primary signals, and in the Pacific, the ama-to-aka attachments seem to have the greatest ethnic variation. --Wade

  3. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
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    Duncan, Vancouver Island
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    28,043

    Default Re: Oceanic Spritsail AKA alpha dory sprit

    I like this


  4. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    20

    Default Re: Oceanic Spritsail AKA alpha dory sprit

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    I would also mention Sunfish Lateen as similar sail, a popular boat and the simplicity and excelent performance of the rig have alot to do with the success of the boat.

    Reefing difficulty...
    in the two yrs. sailing my alpha and 10+ yrs with a sunfish I have never reefed a sail... I dont know if that is difficult or effortless as far as reefing goes, but yes the geometry of the sail with the raked foot is difficult to reef, Todd had an illustration... but the sail is sooo well mannered over such a wide wind range there is far less need to reef than with four sided sails.

    Weight up high? the historic Alpha dory mast is 17' on a 21' boat... and the mast tapers to just over an inch at the mast head... so as far as comparisons with other boats this is a particullarly low light rig... also no spar at the top of the mast, so very light rig.

    Long spars? Heck Yeah! the boom on my Alpha big rig was 18' long and 1 1/2 inches thick, very light and flexible... but actually the mast is quite short, even with my big rig all the spars fit inside the boat, and the traditional Alpha rig with a 17' mast fits easily in the 21' dory, short spars that fit inside the boat are often the main selling point for four sided sails but the dory rig is really just as good at short spars, the longger boom means you can have a shorter mast

    I've noticed that similarity between the Sunfish sail and a few of the alpha/gunning/Swampscott/sailing dory's Leg-O-Mutton sail rigs in Gardner's books. Do you think you could successfully use a Sunfish's sail on this leg-o-mutton style rig assuming the correct mast and boom sizes are used and that the sail area is a good match to the boat?
    Last edited by Dalton; 04-05-2018 at 01:05 PM.

  5. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Shore, Massachusetts
    Posts
    8,522

    Default Re: Oceanic Spritsail AKA alpha dory sprit

    oh, this is fun, the way back machine

    but to answer your question, sure.
    I sailed with a sunny sail and mast and spars in a Chamberlain dory skiff for years and it was a near perfect fit.

    when you try and put a Sunfish sail on a dory mast and boom it gets a little odd because the Sunfish sail as a very acute angle between Luff and Foot of the sail, a typical dory sail would be 10+- degrees closer to square than the sunny sail.

    the sail in the photos of Spear, the Alpha I built, was an old jib I cut up. The angle is that of the original jib between Luff and Foot and the jib is cut fairly flat so sets nice and flat for upwind work and feathering in strong puffs, yet as the mainsheet is slacked the sail develops shape for power off the wind.

    also the sail shape is very distinctive and easily recognised by small boat fans along our coast as a distinctive historical type.

  6. #41
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Shore, Massachusetts
    Posts
    8,522

    Default Re: Oceanic Spritsail AKA alpha dory sprit

    P.S.
    when I sold Spear I ended up making a correct set of spars to the Alpha plan and had pro built set of sails which were about 50 sq ft less sail area than my rig... and found little change in speed, the biggest difference was in light air but the boat was actually quicker in heavy winds with her 16 ft mast of spruce VS the 19.5' fir mast I had with the big rig, a lighter more compact rig made her a faster boat when it was breezing up and the chop was kicking up.

  7. #42
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    P.S.
    when I sold Spear I ended up making a correct set of spars to the Alpha plan and had pro built set of sails which were about 50 sq ft less sail area than my rig... and found little change in speed, the biggest difference was in light air but the boat was actually quicker in heavy winds with her 16 ft mast of spruce VS the 19.5' fir mast I had with the big rig, a lighter more compact rig made her a faster boat when it was breezing up and the chop was kicking up.


    Thanks so much the guidance and tips. Now I’m torn between the Chamberlain Dory Skiff and a Swampscott Dory. I ultimately want to put together a small boat that uses an off the shelf sail, but with a hull that’s more multifunctional (crabbing/fishing) than a sunfish/laser.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  8. #43
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    112

    Default Re: Oceanic Spritsail AKA alpha dory sprit

    Yes you can. Let me see if I can get a photo to post...image.jpg

    no no idea why it's upside down. This is a sunfish sail partially reefed. With a rotating mast and adjustable outhaul the reefing is simple and infinite

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