Small boat trailer design w/light suspension, folding, good support?

[Thorne]

Re: Small boat trailer design w/light suspension, folding, good support?

Not interested in the Harbor Freight option, as I've owned two and (sorry guys!) they were crap! Metal parts falling off, breaking during installation, bearing failures at bad times, and rusting rusting rusting! Quality (and part sizes) vary in the Chinese trailers, but none of the trailer shops around here will touch 'em -- so they do NOT always take "standard trailer parts".

Their suspension is rated for around 1000lbs (the Feds made them drop the rating from 1350lbs after multiple failures and accidents), and is WAY too stiff for a lightweight wooden boat. That is why I spec'd lightweight suspension in the initial post on this thread.

I trailer a lot of miles annually, which is another reason why I spec'd commercial axles, bearings and wheels. A single round trip to Oregon will often be more than 1100 miles, plus I trailer up to Humboldt County at least 3 times a year for an additional 1800 miles. Trips to Elkhorn Slough, various destinations in the Delta, and multiple boating weekends in Tomales Bay will add another 800 miles at least. Do I want to risk my boat and other motorists pulling a crap trailer with dodgy bearings for nearly 4000 miles annually -- NO!

And yes I got the utility trailer and replaced the entire tongue/backbone with a heavier piece, replaced the fenders when they fell off, replaced the axle when the bearings and spindles were junk, etc.


That is not to say that HF trailers don't have their place, and I see a lot of them in use by boaters who do under 1000 miles of trailering a year. Many of the TSCA folks who have 'em are unwilling to even get the axle and bearings wet, as they have light ply boats that can be lifted on & off the trailer at the water's edge. My solid wood boat is far too heavy for this, so my galvanized EZLoader trailer with oil bath bearings is a much better option. But even though it is rated for around 1000lbs, the suspension can hammer the boat on bad pavement or rough mountain roads.

So, back to the topic -- do we have any good designs for home-built trailers with quality suspensions and running gear? Or will the best option always be to pick up a used Trailex or (if really lucky) an old Holsclaw?

[BBSebens]

Re: Small boat trailer design w/light suspension, folding, good support?

Suspension is the biggest problem in the small wooden boat trailer world. Everything else is relatively easy to work around. The EZ Loader that mine sits on is good for 800#, but my boat and gear might be 300. Thus it bounces and jounces and generally does bad things.

Im going to throw the Airbag idea into the fray. Imagine a set of pickup "helper springs" between the frame and a swing arm of some kind. Wheels mounted to the arm. The Airbags are filled through a simple tire valve, pressurize to your load. I imagine that shocks would also be needed to minimize bouncing.

But how will the hardware on the bags, that obviously isn't marine grade, hold up in the salt water I like to put my boat in? There's the rub in my mind.


I am very interested in the results of this thread.

[Thorne]

Re: Small boat trailer design w/light suspension, folding, good support?

Thanks BB, that is one reason why I posted the photos of Todd's Holsclaw suspension. I'm sure that they put all those crossbars and other structural members there for very good reasons -- probably mostly stability / handling.

I know a little about airbag additions in automobile suspensions, but the bags tend to wear & tear fairly rapidly - even quicker if the coil springs rust. Air bags in this context just give lift to the system, not a structural part of the suspension. From the VW TDI Club forum -

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=110896&highlight=air+bag

So I'd be really wary of trying to invent something completely new for boat trailer suspension - again, I want to be responsible and protect my boat and other motorists. My limited experience with the torsion axles was very educational, as was my brief ownership of a utility trailer with no suspension -- SCARY at freeway speeds!

[Dave Wright]

Re: Small boat trailer design w/light suspension, folding, good support?

You've made it clear what you want and you've had experience to temper your wants. Unfortunately Holzclaw has been out of business for many years. I salvaged one of the smallest Holzclaw models almost 30 years ago, it was rusting in some blackberry bushes. I paid 10 bucks and got a bill of sale from the deseased owners relatives, but because I didn't have the title, registration was "interesting." It worked well for my 120 pound Laser, but you seldom see these trailers on the west coast anymore. You might be hard pressed to find a decent one.

I'm very happy with my current galvanized Road Runner trailer made in BC Canada and very similar to EZ Loader but less money. I have a 2000 pound capacity model that weighs 440 pounds. They make a 1000 pound capacity model that weighs 260 pounds. These guys are easy to talk to and responsive. If I were you I'd try sending them an E-mail asking if there's anything they could do do "lighten" up and reduce the capacity of their smallest model. I know they've done special requests for some customers. It's worth a try:

http://www.roadrunnerltd.com/intro1.html

[michigangeorge]

Re: Small boat trailer design w/light suspension, folding, good support?

I had a Trailex under my Shearwater and it was nice but still did not deliver the ride quality I was hoping for. I wanted something which would provide the cushy, mushy ride of an old Cadillac. Seems to me the only way to get this may be to load any old trailer down to capacity with weights and then put the boat on it. I have my 18' catboat on an old flatbed utility (car hauler?) and she rides as if on air. There must be a way to obtain this with smaller boats.

[mcdenny]

Re: Small boat trailer design w/light suspension, folding, good support?

Bayliner sold zillions of boat, motor, trailer packages and lots of the galvanised trailers are around, often with free boats on them. I've got my 450# Arctic Tern on a trailer from a 17' Bayliner (trailer weighs 350#) with one leaf removed from the springs. All up about $500 with new bearings, seals, wheels, tires, lights and wooden bunks. I've towed it a couple of thousand miles so far and rides decently. A brand new galv trailer for the AT was about $1100.

Note old trailers ought to have a "speedi-sleeve" pressed over the journal where the seal lip rides. These are cheap and available for all common seal sizes. The old worn surface will wear out a new seal in no time.

I realize this really doesn't fit Thorne's design brief but is one of the few options for our light (and often precious!) boats.

[rgranger]

Re: Small boat trailer design w/light suspension, folding, good support?

I have a copy of Glen-L's pamphlet on building boat trailers. It is a good read.

[Dave Wright]

Re: Small boat trailer design w/light suspension, folding, good support?

Bayliner sold zillions of boat, motor, trailer packages ... a 17' Bayliner (trailer weighs 350#) with one leaf removed from the springs. All up about $500 with new bearings, seals, wheels, tires, lights and wooden bunks....

I think many of those trailers carried the "Escort" brand name; they had remarkably few parts and looked very clean and simple.

When I salvaged an extremely rusty Holsclaw trailer I was struck by the higher part count, the higher number of operations going into build each part, the higher number of connections and assembly operations, the higher position in which the boat had to be carried, all for the potentially higher amplitude of load motion. I imagine this is part of why they went out of business. Since I was only carrying a 120 pound Laser I didn't perceive any advantages in reduced shock with the Holsclaw. I mainly liked the 10 dollar purchase price, and this was dampened a bit by the effort getting the trailer servicable. I'd guess the secret is to match the boat weight to the trailer stiffness as you have done with your leaf spring removal.

I'd guess that we might start seeing some pretty small used jet ski trailers on the market which might fill the bill with minimum mods.

[Nicholas Scheuer]

Re: Small boat trailer design w/light suspension, folding, good support?

If you go with one of the kit trailers like Dave and Keith suggest, I'd strongly urge a $30 investment in a swivel-wheel tongue jack. Handling a small boat trailer without tongue support is a royal pain, and if you have a folding tongue (nothing wrong with that) a swivel jack wheel might be even more important as you won't have the leverage of a long tongue to grab onto when you want to move it around.

Moby Nick

[Thorne]

Re: Small boat trailer design w/light suspension, folding, good support?

All good stuff, folks -- thanks! Don't care if we wander a bit off topic, as for most small wooden boat owners their boat trailers are dear to the heart and essential for boating.

I'll strongly agree with the swing-back rolling jack, and suggest that a good saltwater model kept full of waterproof grease is a decent investment for those of us who routinely launch in salt or brackish waters. I've had the freshwater models seize up after a year even when lubed with waterrpoof bearing grease.

And my EZLoader galvanized trailer may be rated for 1000lbs, but it seems to handle my 350lb dory skiff without bouncing too badly on everything but very bumpy roads. On bad roads I've had it bounce the boat off the bow chock and had to pull over quickly to reposition it. So a trailer with the lovely soft ride of my old Holsclaw would not only be better for the boat, but safer for towing as well.

[Steve Paskey]

Re: Small boat trailer design w/light suspension, folding, good support?

For anyone else who might be inclined to try a Harbor Freight trailer, I'll second what Thorne said: they're a piece of crap. I used to own one, and the coupling mechanism broke -- not just popped off, but broke -- while I was driving. I'm thankful that it happened while I was going only 25 mph on a side street.

I don't care if other people have had a good experience with the things -- the quality is suspect, and the potential cost of failure is high. You get what you pay for.

[slidercat]

Re: Small boat trailer design w/light suspension, folding, good support?

How to build a jonboat trailer:

http://www.ehow.com/how_6064525_build-own-jon-boat-trailer.html

It seems to me to be a problem mainly of finding springs that are not too stiff for a light boat.

[amish rob]

Re: Small boat trailer design w/light suspension, folding, good support?

The Holsclaw suspension doesn't look too un-doable; it's just a "three-link" rear suspension, like on a NASCAR. I believe the big stock cars all use "five-link", but it's all the same really. The trailing links (one or two per side) hold the axle and allow it to swing on an arc, so the suspension can compress. The third (or fifth) link is the "panhard" bar, or cross link (the crazy dog-legged deal running tranverse on Todd's under-trailer) which is there to keep the wheels in plane, so the axle can only pivot vertically.

Building a trailer with that type of suspension would be a snap for a competent welder. The coil over shocks could come from a junkyard UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle), which always seemed to have coil overs Motorcycles should be sprung about right for wooden boat trailers. The axle and wheels may be the sticky part, but everything else is a cinch.

As for the airbag deal, lots and lots of the lowrider crowd have changed from hydraulics to airbags. There are kits for replacing car springs or struts with airbags out there, some complete with a compressor.

If'n I wanted a trailer like you want, Thorne, I'd just start collecting bits and make one. If you can weld, or have a welder friend, you could probably copy that Holsclaw for less that a $G. Maybe you could even begin producing them...?

[Canoeyawl]

Re: Small boat trailer design w/light suspension, folding, good support?

More than once I have bought an old 'glass skiff on a trailer for a couple hundred bucks. Towed the skiff straight to the dump and brought my "new" trailer home.

[Chip-skiff]

Re: Small boat trailer design w/light suspension, folding, good support?

I've gotten good service from cheap trailers from Northern Tool (I waited 'til they had a sale— less than $200 w/o the tires and rims). They're made in Taiwan rather than the PRC, seem to be good steel with a tough paintjob. One is a boat trailer, for the skiff. The other is a 4x8 folding flatbed that I fitted with a raft rack of chainlink top-rail and Kee-Klamps. With the rack off, I bolt on a flat bed and use stake sides that I built. Besides hauling the boats, I used it to haul tons of gravel, sand, lumber, polycarbonate, concrete, etc. to build a large greenhouse.

Nothing new here, except the fact that cheap trailers aren't all worthless/dangerous.

One possibility for an ultralight trailer would be to find a couple identical mountainbike frames with full suspension, get some schedule 40 alu pipe, and do some welding. There's a cat frame builder, David Nissen, who uses bike fittings and builds really beautiful frames that are favored by Class V whitewater rafters. A trailer could be built on similar lines.

http://www.madcatr.com/