Considering a jointer

[Dave Gray]

I've begrudgingly bought a bandsaw and a drill press over the years. Now I am realizing that the pleasure of using a shooting board to get a jointing edge is not what it was. Time to hit CL I guess. Then what? A planer? A table saw? Where will the madness lead!

[Bob Cleek]

A jointer isn't much good without a thickness planer to match up with it. There was a good thread on this recently and you might consider the search thing to pull it up. If you will be working with hardwood, you'll probably want the 8" Delta, which is pretty much the gold standard. Raw hardwood usually comes in 8" flitches or planks. If you get the 6", you'll always have to deal with a machine that is too small. To go with it, you'll need a thickness planer of the same capacity. Reasonable minds differ, but IMHO, you'll want a stationary thickness planer, not one of those "lunch box" things, which really don't have the capacity or power to hog heavy stuff all day long.

[David G]

Dave,

I don't know your situation, but you mentioned a table saw as a possible NEXT tool. All else being equal, I'd most certainly buy the table saw before the jointer. The table saw is substantially more vesatile and useful in a shop. A more basic tool. You can even use one for jointing the edge of a board. A jointer is more specialized, and therefore more limited.

And... as Mr. Cleekster notes... a jointer is even more limited if you have no planer to go with it. I agree with an 8" jointer and a 12 or 13" planer. I also agree that a stationary planer is mo betta. A benchtop planer, though, will get you by for a good proportion of your planer needs, take up less space when not in use, and be easy to maintain & swap knives.

But.. really... I'd suggest the tablesaw first.

[TerryLL]

Agreed. I don't own a jointer, but I'd be helpless without my tablesaw and planer.

[Lew Barrett]

Times many in respect to what David said on the table saw first. I can easily live without a jointer because I generally joint on a saw and you can also do that with a router. A thickness planer comes before a jointer in my view, but before that is the saw.

I think the advice about buying a bigger jointer is well given. But of you do that, you are into it for some dough.

There are a lot of articles about jointing with a saw out there, here's one

[Lew Barrett]

It's a slippery slope and not for the fainthearted.

But hopefully not slippery in front of the big saw!

Oooh Mama, you are equipped!

[David G]

But hopefully not slippery in front of the big saw!

Oooh Mama, you are equipped!

Oh... Lew!

You say that to ALL the boys, now doncha?!?!? <G>

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

It's a slippery slope and not for the fainthearted.

SEE!!? SEE?! Ledger is cheating... that's an alien controlled multi faceted three motored gronicle metabulator!!!! No wonder he can build keels that look like furniture. Aliens I tell ya.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Actually, depending on how much use you give it, the six inch chinese jointers are pretty damn good these days, and very cheap. Oliver, Delta,
General, Powermatic, all made excellent jointers, and good used ones do come up. I have an old Rockwell Beaver 6 inch, with extension rails. Paid very little for it, and it works quite well. I use a jointer plane for a lot of my panel doors tho... works well, and takes no time.

[Dave Gray]

I see Jim's picture and I am filled with despair. Is this where it will all lead?

Mein gott that is some amazing equipment!

Thanks for the replies. I am an occasional woodworker. I have shied away from a table saw for various reasons. One is, frankly, I am rather afraid of it! More importantly I don't have the right power setup but that is really no excuse.

[Bruce Hooke]

I see Jim's picture and I am filled with despair. Is this where it will all lead?

Mein gott that is some amazing equipment!

Thanks for the replies. I am an occasional woodworker. I have shied away from a table saw for various reasons. One is, frankly, I am rather afraid of it! More importantly I don't have the right power setup but that is really no excuse.

A decent size jointer will likely need the same power setup as a tablesaw. Also, while a jointer may feel safer than a tablesaw, a jointer can still do you a lot of damage.

[Bob Cleek]

Thanks for the replies. I am an occasional woodworker. I have shied away from a table saw for various reasons. One is, frankly, I am rather afraid of it! More importantly I don't have the right power setup but that is really no excuse.

120 VAC is almost as good as 220 VAC, power-wise. I used a "cheater" pigtail and an extension cord I made up to plug into the 220 outlet for the drier in the laundry room to run my 220 Unisaw until I got a shop wired with 220 3-phase. It worked fine as long as nobody wanted to do a load of laundry at the same time!

As for afraid of it... YES! This only means you are qualified. Stay afraid, learn to use power tools properly, and you will be far safer than those who aren't afraid of them.

As for stationary power tools, the same applies as hand tools: Always buy the best you can afford. That said, there is a LOT of "old 'arn" out there that can be had for very reasonable prices if you know what you are looking at. It isn't that hard to lurk in Craigslist or the like and pick off a nice machine every now and then. I got a very low mileage 220 VAC 3 hp Unisaw with the extension table and roller base for $700 off of a guy who just wanted to free up the room in his garage. My heavy duty Rockwell/Delta 13" thickness planer I got for $400. All it needed was cleaning, sharpening and a paint job... looks like new. $750 for my 12x36 Atlas engine lathe with all the tooling possible (including the milling attachment and tool post grinder), also in excellent condition. When you figure these were acquired all in a span of ten years or so, hey... it was less than "beer money."

Just respect the danger that they pose if you aren't careful. And while it may be obvious, most hobbyist woodworkers seem to ignore this advice: Booze and power tools don't mix. Beyond that, as long as you don't do "stupid" or "careless," you should be just fine.

[oldsub86]

Keep your eyes and ears open. I bought an 8 inch jointer for $100 about 18 months ago on Kijiji.

Randy

[Eddiebou]

If you can afford it and have the space, you need a jointer. Jointing (the face) of boards before they go through a thickness planer, and jointing (the edge) before they go through a table saw is SOOOO nice. I have an 8", wish I had a 10" or 12".

[SMARTINSEN]

If you are building a boat, a jointer is not a top priority, especially if it is a smaller traditionally built boat. If you are doing any sort of cabinet work, a jointer will help you bring your work up to the next level.

Regarding the power supply, most motors for power wood working equipment are made to run on either 110 or 220 volts. It is fairly easy to put in a new 220v (dedicated) circuit, and to change the wiring in the motor. Then you would be able to run the equipment on half the amps.

[Lew Barrett]

If you can afford it and have the space, you need a jointer. Jointing (the face) of boards before they go through a thickness planer, and jointing (the edge) before they go through a table saw is SOOOO nice. I have an 8", wish I had a 10" or 12".

I agree (with your wishes). It's a tool where the bigger footprint is the more useful. It's also a tool that takes some practice to use well, and (if it's an old one) is I think the hardest to set up. The easy in, easy out knife arrangements of the newer tools make a lot of sense because setting up the knives in an old jointer is the hardest part of using the tool. At least, it is for me. Mine was a machine that took some getting used to.

[SMARTINSEN]

If you are considering an older machine, I would suggest looking for one that had thee cutters rather than two.

[Canoeyawl]

I did without a jointer for many years.
Finally, because I am building windows and doors for my house, I bought one. It is only a six inch, and it is almost as much work as a #7 or 8 plane to shoot a board, but it is easier and my elbows appreciate it. Almost always I use the plane after the jointer. In the end it just another plane with a spnning knife, and rarely needed for boat building.
A larger one would be better (like anything else) but I won't give up the floor space.

[Samson Post]

A tablesaw is the beating heart of a busy woodshop. Without one your just "dabbling"

[BarnacleGrim]

What about table saw/jointer/thicknesser combination machines?

On the other hand I was contemplating on restoring an old wooden hand jointer plane i have somewhere, and just have a thicknesser. In any case it's worth having a few working hand planes and know how to use them.

[Dave Gray]

I have done fine for a very long time with a drill, bandsaw and occasional use of a skilsaw. I built my boat using them. As I start replacing house furniture I find that I don't much like what is available commercially and I can't afford a true cabinet maker. So I am building my own.

In most respects I can get by without a tablesaw. It doesn't mean I don't want one - I have always wanted one! I have considered Bob Cleek's pigtail approach in the past. I have a 75' run to the garage from the dryer outlet. The voltage drop worries me and having to coil and uncoil such a long lenght of 8 or 10 gauge wire. I know a saw would open up a lot of possibilities.

So that is why I consider a jointer and a planer. A planer would be good regardless, and I want very straight, level, jointed edges.

The junk sold on Craig's List for top dollar (and more!) is always entertaining to explore.

[StevenBauer]

There are some nice smaller tablesaws on the market. I have a bigger saw in the shop but keep one of these in the truck:



It'll rip to 16" and works fine with an extension cord.
A small jointer is better than no jointer. The two tools really do go together.


Steven

[SMARTINSEN]

What about table saw/jointer/thicknesser combination machines?

.

We do not see much of that here in the U.S., especially in a small shop. I think that most of the good ones are made in Europe, but they are not the usual stock in trade here.

[David G]

What about table saw/jointer/thicknesser combination machines?

On the other hand I was contemplating on restoring an old wooden hand jointer plane i have somewhere, and just have a thicknesser. In any case it's worth having a few working hand planes and know how to use them.

It's true that we seldom see these in the U.S. I did have one friend that had one, however. He ended up using it mostly as a table saw. He found the time & interruption involved in switching from one tool to another to be onerous. That's not the first time I've heard that about these tools. The various euro version, however, are a huge improvement over our home-grown ShopSmith.

[David Cockey]

I have a tablesaw, joiner, planer and bandsaw. If I had to get rid of one it would be the tablesaw, particularly for boat work.

[old school]

I bought a small 4" Delta table jointer. I wish i had bought a heavy 6 to 8" floor model. The small ones are really only good for model making. Had i not bought the jointer at that time i could have bought a larger band saw, say 16 or 18 inch with re-saw capability. Instead i opted for the jointer and a 12" Delta. "Experience is the best teacher it gives the test first and the lessons later".

[Lazy Jack]

I'd have to agree with David Cockey. My collection of equipment evolved through boat building. The most important tool to me is the planer, followed by the bandsaw. The jointer I got for a project unrelated to boats. I had a tablesaw which was very useful for quickly and accurately cutting long, fair curves in planking, but it otherwise stood in the corner taking up space and I eventually let someone else carry it off. I haven't felt the urge to replace it despite having subsequently built many cabinets and pieces of furniture. The jointer is key for this work because UNLIKE a table saw, it can remove twist. Paired with a planer, the combo produces a flat board and the jointer can then be used to true up an edge. A bandsaw with a fence trues the other edge. Set the jointer just to barely skin that sawn edge and you have flat, true cauls that jump effortlessly together when gluing up a tabletop or whatever. But for stationary tools in boat building, a planer and a (good) bandsaw and you're pretty much all set. Anything else just gets in the way.

[ILikeRust]

I do my jointing with a Stanley #8 handplane. Mostly because the 6" Rockwell/Delta jointer I have is stuck in the corner, waiting for me to get around to rehabbing it.

Running a 220V outlet is pretty dirt simple, if you have the space in your main panel for it. I've run several 220V circuits in my shop, including a dedicated 50 Amp circuit for an arc welder. It's really not any different, in terms of technical difficulty, than running a 110V outlet. Which is dirt simple.

By the same token, there are plenty of people doing more than merely passable woodworking using 110V contractor-grade saws.

[SquareSailor]

I would agree with Lazy Jack. If you like working with wood & boat building is your joy there's nothing quite like hand planing edges square. If you're in a hurry than you're either making a living or aren't enjoying the work. Jointers are loud and dusty. I wouldn't consider a jointer unless I was producing lots of cabinetry or other such "straight" work for a living. As a hobby, I'd rather listen to the radio as I made thin curls with a sharp, well tuned hand plane.

[Nicholas Carey]

If one is interested (Portland OR not being that far from Seattle): http://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/tls/2176228674.html

Belgian-built Robland X-31 combination machine, mid-90s vintage.

• 3 x3hp motors
• 10 inch true sliding table table saw with riving knife (only 50 inch stroke, though, on the sliding table).
• tilting head shaper
• 12 inch jointer
• 12 inch planer
• horizontal mortising machine

$2350

All in roughly the space required by a cabinet saw with extension tables. Changeover from tool-to-tool takes about 1-2 minutes.

Pretty good deal: I believe the current iteration will set you back ~ $10k.

[Jim Mahan]

I recently built a deck swing and a trestle stand for my lathe out of scrap PT doug fir 6x6. They had shrunk and warped way out of square. Neither the table saw nor handplanes or the bandsaw would have been up to squaring that dimension, not this century. But the eighty-year-old delta six inch jointer did, and in only a few passes each side. Took between a quarter and three eighths of seasoned doug fir an eighth at a time, the full width of the timber. Wrestling an out-of-square, thirty pound chunk of wood was easy on the long wide bed of the jointer, compared to using either of the saws. I got the lumber square and removed a bunch of the ugliness of the PT. The trestle is painted and the swing is still naked and has been slowly ageing in service on the front porch. Also used the jointer in a critical step when I used the bandsaw and lathe to get a baseball bat out of a piece of ash log that I claimed; without the jointer, the big irregular chunk of wood I'd split out would've made the lathe walk across the shop.

[ILikeRust]

Make sure clean out all the shavings and dust from the PT wood right away - that stuff is corrosive and will rust your machine surfaces. I know this...