Drake -- 40' LOD Munroe-influenced ketch

[Dave Hadfield]

Thanks, Don. Yes, she does look similar. https://proto2.yachtworld.com/privat...&slim=pp267098&

But her hull draws 6 ft, so it may just be a case of "convergent evolution".

Wouldn't I just love to be able to say she was designed by William Roue?!!!

[Don Kurylko]

With 6’-2” headroom and such large cabins on a 36' LWL, I’m willing to bet this schooner was originally a centreboarder. A boat this big with 6’ draft would not require such high cabin tops. But that aside, designers often rework similar designs for different clients. I’m not suggesting that this schooner and your ketch share the same hull. Rather, I think the styling is significantly similar and suggests that Roue could possibly be Drakes designer. Design #112 fits the dimensions of your boat remarkably closely. One of your B&W photos above shows the original boat, sans boomkin, and with a short bowsprit. It would certainly suggest a 41’-7” LOA on a 35’ LWL.

Perhaps MMD or some of our fellow Nova Scotians might know of this schooner and her builder and be able to shed some light on ketch design #112 as well.

Excerpted from Kingman website:

Designed by William Roue and built by Warren Robar in Novia Scotia (1964), WINTERWOOD (ex-Poseidon II & ex-Boreas) has a wonderful history. She was purchased by her extremely knowledgable current owner's in 1983 in dire need of retrofitting, and was re-launched in 1986 after a major re-building and renovation. Over the past 18 years WINTERWOOD has received additional renovation, upgrading, outfitting, and normal yearly maintenance. She is a fast schooner that is quite at home on the classic racing course, having been a two-time great lakes schooner champion, a three time class B winner in the Great Chesapeake Bay Schooner Race, and a winner of the Glouchester Schooner races.



Image won't load for some reason. I was hoping to compare it to this photo of Drake. Note the bow profile in particular and the positioning of the portholes high up near the roof of the cabin in both boats.

[George Ray]

Great Chesapeake Bay Schooner Race: History/results

http://www.schoonerrace.org/longhistory.htm

[Dave Hadfield]

Bump, to illustrate Cetol 2,3 Plus in use on a boat (that's the house grade stuff) after 7 years, usually with 1 coat a year maintenance.

[lestat]

Greetings Mr.Hadfield,

Forgive this intrusion on your thread, perhaps you recall I had mentioned, a year or two ago, recalling your boat from my past?
Out of simple curiosity, and not meaning to pry, but did you manage to arrange a sail together with Pierre Charbonneau?
Fresh pictures and a story of that encounter would be most appreciated and rather fitting considering the "archeological"nature of this thread.
Mind you, I would certainly understand and respect your decision not to relate a story,should you consider it too personal or if,unfortunately, a sail together never managed to occur.
Thank you for bumping this thread into view,once again and happy haul-out!

[Dave Hadfield]

M. Lestat,

For some reason I missed your last post until just now. Sorry. No, I wasn't able to get together for a sail with M. Charbonneau due to health issues on his part.

However, a big bundle arrived in the mail one day that turned out to be a genoa! Rather a nice surprise! It fits reasonably well, and is intermediate between the genoa I have now (too big anyway) and the working jib, so it gets used!

I have corresponded with his daughter, and we will arrange a sail as soon as we can work out a common time. Looking forward to that.

I was just over the boatyard yesterday (in an Aeronca Champ, acutally) and noticed my tarp needs adjustment. I'll drive up there tomorrow.

Dave

[Dave Hadfield]

Drat! All those photos link to the now-defunct Imagestation. I did save them, in Photobucket. I guess I should re-establish the new links...

A fellow recently asked me about the squaresail, and I see another wondering about tabernacles.

I'll work away at it.

Dave

[Dave Hadfield]

Done!

I've gotta take more under-sail photos this year...

Dave

[Dave Hadfield]

Bump.

I'm on a friend's yacht in the bahamas, and wanted to show some photos of my own boat.

Dave

[John B]

I'm sitting on my boat at Waiheke island,Hauraki gulf, NZ.
ketchketchketchketch

[Dave Hadfield]

Hi John,

I missed your reply back in April! (Ketch as ketch can!) You should have seen my friend's yacht -- a 195ft steel ex-oceangoing tug with a crew of 15, and a Stuart Knockabout on deck for daysailing! Great time sailing and diving, sharks and all...

Right now we're getting ready for our Summer Voyage in Drake. We aren't too ambitious this year, but we should get 2 un-interrupted weeks aboard, which is a life-altering change in pace.

Anyone sailing in Georgian Bay in the middle of August? Rendezvous? (Anywhere between Penetanguishene and Kilarney. No fixed plan yet!)

Dave

[John B]

Compulsory photo essay required about your cruise Dave.
I'm just about to head down to the harbour to see whats been happening. Weather bomb overnight. 86 knots I saw reported as a gust and 70 reported as constant for quite a while.

[Dave Hadfield]

Well John B, we sure anchored in some lovely places. This is in Shawanaga Inlet, a favourite of ours.

[Dave Hadfield]

[Dave Hadfield]

A group of innocent rain showers merged and swelled and grew, swallowing each other, until they formed a massive cumulonimbus that flattened Parry Sound one afternoon. We only caught the edge of it, but it was enough to make me set extra anchors and rig the Sentinel on the anchor line.

[Dave Hadfield]

I thought I'd document some boat details.

Here's the Swim Stage. It's a wonderful design, and I've never seen another like it. Snap-on, snap-off.

Since Drake has an overhanging stern, the swim stage is our only way to get back on aboard from the water. It's a wide mahogany plank. Underneath it are 2 stainless steel channels, into which slide the spacers that hold it our from the hull -- so it's a take-apart. These spacers are cushioned with 1 1/2" plastic pipe around the ends against the soft cypress hull planks. The pool-noodle fender bits are not usually on it, but I was using the stage to rig my sailing dinghy that day.

It's rigged right at water level.

[Dave Hadfield]

Halyard hooks.

These work very well. They don't chafe the sails and keep all my lines off the cetoled masts.

They're made in my shop from beaten copper. Method: I slide a 4" piece of copper 1/4" tubing inside a 4" piece of 3/8" tubing, and then pound them flat with a hammer. Then I bend, grind, and drill screw holes, after which I polish and clear-coat.

Using copper tubing produces smooth, rounded edges.

Also, being copper, it's poisonous, and rot doesn't occur behind the fitting.

[Dave Hadfield]

More beaten copper: lazyjacks; very useful on a ketch, otherwise you tend to drop the mizzen, and sometimes the boom, on the helmsman's head. (I usually take care to hoist them evenly, but apparently I didn't that day.) There are a pair of halyards for it, linked by a large bight which is the part that goes under the boom. Each halyard is separate, leading from the masthead to a cleat on each side of the mast.





And for the fitting to take the line around the boom, to revent chafe, again I used simple copper pipe or tubing (in this case both), beaten flat and polished. These pieces never got the clear-coat, and thus they take a patina which I don't mind at all.

I don't like the plastic hooks. As they break I replace them with... hooks made from beaten copper!

[Dave Hadfield]

Wooden blocks. I love them. They reek with tradition, work adequately for the low tensions of Drake's multi-sail rig, and are pleasant to make in the off-season.

Three out of the 4 blocks on my mainsheet are wooden. As you can see the rig allows some mechanical advantage, but not a lot is required -- when I bought the boat the mainsheet was rigged as simply as a dinghy.



This block is carved from a single piece of ash -- made on a drill press for accuracy of axle-hole and the morticed slot. The grommet is made from Buff Polyester -- a wonderful rope! (So is the sheet.) The thimble is made from copper, a 3/4" pipe-joiner.



The copper thimble is made using the 3-hammer technique. (A ball-peen hammer is set in a vise, ball side up. The pipe-join is set on it and heated with a torch. The next hammer is laid on top of it, ball-side against the copper. And then that hammer is tapped with a third one. This works the flare into the sides of the thimble. (This block is stropped with manila, tarred using a stockholm-tar boat-sauce to add longevity. the seizing is tarred nylon sein twine -- wonderfully handy stuff on a boat, I have 3 rolls of different sized twine on board.)

[Dave Hadfield]

More wooden blocks... these are mizzen-outhaul blocks. They are carved from cherry. Remarkably, they have no coating or finish on them, other than I boiled them in linseed oil when I made them. The sheave too, which is turned from Jotoba. I just dropped them in a paint-can of linseed oil, boiled them for about 4 hours on the sood stove, and they've needed nothing ever since.

I believe boiling the sheave in oil also adds long-term lubrication. These sheaves are on simple pin-axles, yet they roll reasonably well.





These blocks are glued-up, obviously. It's a lot more work, and from my experience, not really worth the trouble. Here they're in use as a mainsail outhaul tackle.

[Thad]

Thanks! Where'd ya go?

[Dave Hadfield]

Along the E coast of Georgian Bay. It's called the 30,000 Islands, but should really be called the 100,000 reefs.

We never got past Pointe au Baril, not being in any rush, and having contrary winds all the way.

But we had no schedule, so why sweat it? Each day was great!

Dave

[Ron Williamson]

We got as far as Collins Inlet,going the other direction.
We had several bad rain days and there were some pretty decent storms.
R

[Dave Hadfield]

Hi Ron. Too bad we never crossed tracks.

Yes, it was a wet year. This morning the water level is still .17 meters above chart datum -- a welcome trend.

More photos....

The dinghy. This is a 10 pram I designed and built. It's damn-near perfect for the job I need her to do: function as a lifeboat, take me to shore and back with a load, row sweetly solo, tow dry, tow easily, not cost much, and weigh under 80 lbs.

The fore-and-aft seat idea is stolen from Phil Bolger and works great. Since there are 2 sets of oarlocks, you can always arrange to be in trim when ferrying people around.



The key is her underbody, which features deadrise at the front transom, merging to flat-bottomed at the stern. This makes her quiet at anchor and alongside, yet she tows so easily I can pull the towline slack at 5 kts with only finger and thumb. She never gets wet unless it rains. Lots of rocker in the bottom. Good sailor, too, with a leg-o-mutton spritsail and a clip-on leeboard.




Ah, these photos are poor. In real life she doesn't look that stodgy. I made the sides a bit taller than normally required to function as a lifeboat if required (gulp...), when the kids were sailing with us (when they were kids...).

The fender material is 1 1/4" pipe insulation. It isn't super durable, but it's cheap, and laces on easily.

[Dave Hadfield]

Very difficult vessel to steer -- look at the tension on the helmsman's face, and the physical pressure on her left foot.



That binnacle-cover is a canvas bucket I sewed, pretty much from Hervey Garret Smith, to hide the unfortunate fact that there is always a bubble at the top of the compass bowl. And to stop the card from fading, of course.

[John B]

Looks warm still, looks good, looks ..... hell ,I want to be there.
Fascinating cruising ground you have there Dave , as I've no doubt said before.
I'll be up in the bay of islands next week, no doubt arrive in the o'dark sometime ( race) but I'm really hanging out for a cruise .

[boatbuddha]

Beautiful, absolutely beautiful.

[Dave Hadfield]

Thanks, John. Yeah, we've got a bit of summer back. The wind goes back to NW, from the Arctic, in a day or 2. Have a great race!

And Boatbuddha, Robin says thanks for the compliment! And that the boat is beautiful too.

Dave

[Backov]

This is the essence of why I joined this forum. That said, if I had your boat (or a salt-water equivalent) I'd be living on it in the Gulf of Mexico. Your boat is a beauty.

My mother and grandfather (and uncles and aunts) live in Midland/Penetang. I never really thought of it as a boating kind of area, but I guess it is isn't it. Doesn't Georgian Bay freeze in the winter?

[Ron Williamson]

Georgian Bay hasn't frozen over for a while.
IIRC Lake Huron hasn't frozen since the early-mid '90s.
R

[Dave Hadfield]

Thanks, Bakov.

Yeah, huge Lake-use history in that part of the world.

And yes, that corner of Georgian Bay freezes hard. I usually start Spring Commissioning while snowmobiles are still zipping by on the Bay.

Dave

more pictures as soon as I can

[patrick.blanchard]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the great idea. My kids will love this one, and it will make a nice scuba platform for us too. I can see adding a small box for masks, fins, snorkles, and diddies from the sea.

Will you comment on this thread for me?
Carib 32 >> electrics and cabin to mizzen

What do you think about less deck space and more cabin space?
patrick

I thought I'd document some boat details.

Here's the Swim Stage. It's a wonderful design, and I've never seen another like it. Snap-on, snap-off.

Since Drake has an overhanging stern, the swim stage is our only way to get back on aboard from the water. It's a wide mahogany plank. Underneath it are 2 stainless steel channels, into which slide the spacers that hold it our from the hull -- so it's a take-apart. These spacers are cushioned with 1 1/2" plastic pipe around the ends against the soft cypress hull planks. The pool-noodle fender bits are not usually on it, but I was using the stage to rig my sailing dinghy that day.

It's rigged right at water level.

[Dave Hadfield]

Drake has standing backstays, but I changed them to include these large pelican hooks. The reason is it's handy to be able to set a mizzen spinnaker or a mizzen staysail (obviously forward of the mizzen). Usually the main backstays are in the way. But Drake has 2 separate backstays terminating at the mizzen chainplates, not a single backstay that divides to a bridle. Thus, by using these hooks, I can disengage the slack, leeward one, clear the space, and hoist the new sail.

The hooks came from Holland Marine. They're of 1/2 in steel. They don't end up as tight as turnbuckles, but so what -- running backstays don't have to be bar-tight. Drake has a triatic stay to keep the forestay taught. These backstays are more like insurance.

[Dave Hadfield]

We carry a deckload of spars. They look awkward. They're not, at all. It's handy to have some long sticks on board.

The thick one with the D ring at the end is the yardarm (for the squaresail). I also use it to boom my largest genoa out.

The longest curved one is the sprit for the main backstaysail (the "Mule").

The long slim straight one is the mast for the tender (16ft, for a leg-o-mutton spritsail). It's also my depthsounder. (That's right, for measuring the depth of the water I use stone-age technology.) I stand on the bowsprit with this pole as Robin angles-in to an anchorage, sounding the depths and calling it out, and if it shoals too rapidly I'm in a perfect position to get the bow turning very quickly. (Long-keel boats don't spin on a dime.)

The rope around them from the skylight keeps them on board. The other string closer to the camera secures the hatchway bug-net.

The small slim curved one is the sprit for the dinghy rig.

[Dave Hadfield]

Bump, to illustrate a mizzen spinnaker, and backstays on pelican hooks, for Greg Leeber.

Dave