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Thread: What do you think of this ?

  1. #1
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    Default What do you think of this ?

    I know- kind of boxy and ugly but seems very practical for sheltered motor cruising.

    http://www.bateau.com/studyplans/GT2....htm?prod=GT23



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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    I think its fabulous. Its about as much stretching out room as you can find on boat and still call it a boat. You could almost live on it if you had to. Or at least spend the summer months aboard.

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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    I'm suspicious that it might not trim without a heavy motor on the transom. More for sheltered motor screaming about than cruising.

    I'd like to see the lines of the "houseboat" version, which as described could be a more useful hull.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    I'm suspicious that it might not trim without a heavy motor on the transom. More for sheltered motor screaming about than cruising.
    The designer is more optimistic:

    The planing hull bottom and the wide and strong transom allows her to take fairly large engines but she will be very happy to move at displacement speed with a 25 HP.

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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    I really like the design but If it was mine I would make the cabin lower and I'll tell you why.

    Windage is something I do not like.
    Once you are inside of a boat You usually sit down.
    I would have a walk in stand up pilot house (small), With a bench seat for a friend, and then the big cabin would be for just sitting and or laying down.
    I would have a table for two with bench seats resturaunt style. And a partially enclosed berth.
    Last edited by donald branscom; 12-30-2010 at 02:18 PM.
    I love the smell of fresh cut plywood in the morning.

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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    The alternate version has more displacement forwards to allow for more weight in the cabin or less weight o the transom. Several builders have built this boat with the cabin moved aft a bit for better balance without a large engine and it seems to work great. I like having the pram bow on this kind of boat as it gives more usable space than a "pointy" bow of the same length. The best part though is that bateau has a really good builders forum and you get direct support from the designer as well as many knowledgeable folks, most of whom have built many boats and know what is going on.

    I've thought of this one, but build it open deck like a pontoon boat.

    George
    George

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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    I know- kind of boxy and ugly but seems very practical for sheltered motor cruising.
    If I recall rightly, you expressed an interest in Sam Rabl's "Kittiwake" a few years ago??? A lot more character in "Kittiwake." If you're just wanting a day boat for sheltered motor cruising why not stick with the "Kittiwake" thought?

    If you want to go faster and have all sorts of household liveaboard stuff, and appearance doesn't matter, go with this Bateau project.

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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wright View Post
    If I recall rightly, you expressed an interest in Sam Rabl's "Kittiwake" a few years ago??? A lot more character in "Kittiwake." If you're just wanting a day boat for sheltered motor cruising why not stick with the "Kittiwake" thought?

    If you want to go faster and have all sorts of household liveaboard stuff, and appearance doesn't matter, go with this Bateau project.

    You have a very good memory Dave. I was looking at Rabls Kittiwake. It does have more of the 'character" aspect but as I get older I find myself less drawn to that aspect and more to creature comforts. I think I will get my Rabl book out again.

    edited to add-

    I wish the designer had a ply on frame design of this or at least a set of offsets to make my own from - I just can not get into the stitch and gouuge building method - call me hard headed.

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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    The Bateau site lists 18 gallons of epoxy for that boat. If you're like me, you'd probably need another 5 gallons. Maybe doing a build that minimizes epoxy is the way to go; I don't have much interest left for large quantities of the stuff.

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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    In a recent thread that seemed to end in the choosing of a houseboat type vessel, someone suggested George Buehler's 25 foot river walker:

    http://www.georgebuehler.com/River%20Walker.html

    Buehler might have the right approach for slapping out this type of boat and just using it till you don't give a damn and tire of it, quote:

    "Me, I'd use MDO single side plywood, and no epoxy coating. The hull would be two layers of 3/8". This will cost more than ACX, but MDO don't need an epoxy or polyester coating; my MDO lapstrake Chris Craft is over 30 years old and still in fine shape; no plastics. There's no reason you need to spend a great deal of money on materials. This barge boat offers the potential for a great deal of recreational pleasure for a relatively small amount of money, as long as you don't get carried away and start building her like she was some sort of classic racing yacht. She ain't. She's a plywood box."

  11. #11
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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    I like the 27, too


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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_p4ss4wWydS...0/P7230021.JPG

    Cabin Moved to stern.

    Today we put 305 pounds of lead that was salvaged from an old sailboat keel into the stern well of Festivus to see if it would help correct the trim issue. It was a partial success but we need about 1 or 2 hundred more pounds of weight to make it truly self bailing. At least a bit better.
    http://cruisinghouseboat.blogspot.co...boat-ramp.html

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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    Donald- that is a pretty neat modification- Im just wondering how you did it - some sort of computer program?

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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    boat fan- this is the same boat built as designed except for the super structure placement? Saying that they had trim issues even with the cabin moved all the way aft? Any information you can shed on this is appreciated.

    thank you for the link

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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    boat fan- this is the same boat built as designed except for the super structure placement? Saying that they had trim issues even with the cabin moved all the way aft? Any information you can shed on this is appreciated.

    thank you for the link
    I found that eye opening, too. And what would it be like with mom, dad, and the kids in the cabin as designed?

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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    Straight from the study plans:

    he GT23 exist in two hull versions. The difference is the hull volume.
    The performance version (=standard version) has a fine entry with volumes concentrated aft.
    That version will accept larger engines, on a bracket or on the transom but the cabin must be very light and all weights must be kept in towards the stern.
    The houseboat version has more volume forward is designed to take the weigth of more comfortable accomodations distributed over the full length but there is a small price to pay in performance.
    The standard version should be selected if the builder keeps the weight of the cabin and superstructure to a minimum and distributes the other weights as in a regluar outboard planing boat, towards the stern:
    - cabin sides, top, inside cabinets and forward deck made from sandwich
    - windows and doors from roll up vinyl or canvas
    - minimal accomodations
    - tanks, batteries and generally all heavy weights in or under the cockpit
    - large engine: 50 HP or more.
    The houseboat hull is ideal for:
    - heavier plywood cabin construction with framed doors and windows,
    - a smaller motor for displacement speeds
    - weigths distributed evenly through the boat.
    The plans include drawings for each version. The two versions look very similar: same superstructure, same deck and sheer line, same transoms. Only the underwater sections differ.
    The houseboat version uses one more sheet of 10mm plywood.
    A common issue seen is that people can't decide what they really want, I'm guilty of that myself. The designer straight out tells you to build the "houseboat" version of the hull unless you plan to hang a large engine and build the superstructure very light out of foam and even at that the "performance" version will require some weight distribution attention. If you build the houseboat version with more displacement forward then it will not have the same trim issues.

    Just build the correct version and you won't have those issues from what I've been told. I've been following build threads on multiple forums for a few years now and without fail people always want to change things from the designed intent or they don't follow all of the designers recommendations. I've thought of this boat for a future build, but I would be building the houseboat version with the more displacement forward to prevent these issues.

    Just an observation, I have nothing at stake either way here
    George

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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    Quote Originally Posted by gstanfield View Post
    Straight from the study plans:
    Oh, sure. Some guy has to come along who reads the instructions.

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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    Instructions? we dont need no stinkin instructions

    I would like to think the alternate version would also look a bit more balanced - I assume it carries greater beam at and below the wl forward? no offense but those boat photos from the blog made the boat look strangely shaped and made me rethink even contemplating building this one.

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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    I'm not sure the difference other than it has more displacement forwards. I would think the bow is deeper, not sure really. You can post any questions over on the bateau forum under the "questions before purchasing the plans" section. http://forums.bateau2.com/ You'll get response from lots of folks including the designer and probably one or two guys who have actually built the boat including the guy who built the one pictured above. He's now building a Nina22 and posts regularly so I'm sure he'll answer any questions you may have

    George
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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    edited to add-

    I wish the designer had a ply on frame design of this or at least a set of offsets to make my own from - I just can not get into the stitch and gouuge building method - call me hard headed.

    That is relatively easy to do if someone gets serious about it.
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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    boat fan- this is the same boat built as designed except for the super structure placement? Saying that they had trim issues even with the cabin moved all the way aft? Any information you can shed on this is appreciated.

    thank you for the link

    Hello Dutch and Jim D.

    I also like the boat , but thought it prudent to take note of someone who had actually built the thing.

    I believe that the boat was also shortened by 2-3 ft.
    I included the link because there was reference to the boat being shortened and the motor being mounted on an external " Pod " , outside the hull, like an external extension.

    It`s a lengthy blog with good build pictures , and it`s been a while since I read it all.Not sure excactly where the references about trim are written.
    Somewhere after the launching" entry I suppose.

    I still think the boat is a good one , and the trim issues could be corrected without that much trimming ballast , by proper positioning of water and fuel tanks , and correct placement of internal structure / furniture etc........I`m not a designer , but I feel that this would be a good case for a large scale floating model , Sam Devlin`s book on S&G boatbuilding would help with modeling and scale weights.

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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    Donald- that is a pretty neat modification- Im just wondering how you did it - some sort of computer program?
    Photoshop. The king of all art programs.
    If you want details I can give them to you.
    I love the smell of fresh cut plywood in the morning.

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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    This would be a neat boat for gunkholing the Atlantic ICW on a budget - just pick your day for that New York to Manesquan run!
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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    Although not a pram bow, I've always been intrigued with the possibilities in the Stambaugh Redwing 23. If I were to build one, I'd be tempted to tweak the accomodations a little, and locate the head compartment all the way forward on the centerline a la the Rabl Kittiwake, or perhaps Bolger's Plywood Diesel Cruiser. As a matter of fact, if you built the little "deck box" forward of the cabin trunk like on the Bolger boat, in order to give a little more headroom and ventilation over the head compartment, I think it could work. The two settee berths could be shifted aft, and the foot-end of the berths could extend forward into two foot boxes either side of the head compartment.

    There's a web site covering the construction of one of these boats - I think the version depicted could have been improved with some tumblehome and a little shaping of the pilothouse, and some curve to the top of the windscreen windows.

    http://www.jfaughn.com/other/paul/paulboat.htm

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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    Quote Originally Posted by hanleyclifford View Post
    This would be a neat boat for gunkholing the Atlantic ICW on a budget - just pick your day for that New York to Manesquan run!
    thats what I was thinking as well- Might be a bit beamy at 8 foot 6 for easy trailering though if you dont have acess to a slip or anchorage.

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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    Quote Originally Posted by tpelle View Post
    Although not a pram bow, I've always been intrigued with the possibilities in the Stambaugh Redwing 23. If I were to build one, I'd be tempted to tweak the accomodations a little, and locate the head compartment all the way forward on the centerline a la the Rabl Kittiwake, or perhaps Bolger's Plywood Diesel Cruiser. As a matter of fact, if you built the little "deck box" forward of the cabin trunk like on the Bolger boat, in order to give a little more headroom and ventilation over the head compartment, I think it could work. The two settee berths could be shifted aft, and the foot-end of the berths could extend forward into two foot boxes either side of the head compartment.

    There's a web site covering the construction of one of these boats - I think the version depicted could have been improved with some tumblehome and a little shaping of the pilothouse, and some curve to the top of the windscreen windows.

    http://www.jfaughn.com/other/paul/paulboat.htm
    thanks for that link - Im a bit suprised that there are no longitudinal bilge stringers in the redwind 23 - but then Im no naval archietect.

    I have not heard of that Bolger design - do you have any more information or link to it? Seems I have trouble finding coherent/concise stuff about Bolgers boats.

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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    Plywood Diesel Cruiser in the book "Boats With An Open Mind". I gather the design was built by the original customer for use on the St.Clair River and Lake St. Clair. It's a kind of Downeast sort of cruiser really very similar to the Redwing 23, except the Bolger design is a v-bottomed inboard where the Redwing is usually flat-bottomed and outboard-powered, although I think the drawings show a v-bottom version.

    I live near Cincinnati, Ohio on the banks of the Ohio River, and though I really love sailboats, the Redwing 23 would be a more practical boat for me - especially in the flat-bottom version. She could be anchored way over close to the bank where the tugboats and barges can't reach, and could poke into some of the shallow tributaries.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    I like it, especially for an ICW type cruise.

    I gotta' ask ya' Dutch- Can it be made wheelchair accessible?
    Just funnin'

    Doug

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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    That Redwing 23 looks pretty nice, but hell Dutch, someone has to cut to the chase and tell you that Bateau 23 thingy is butt ugly. You know you really don't want to put the time and googe into building it. If you're going to play on the dark side, go all the way for a measly 3 grand and spend your time on the boat instead of in the garage.

    I/O's guzzele gas and are a pain to work on but this one might have some good life left, and you can always poke along to save gas. You can sell it after a couple of years of use too:

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  30. #30
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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    Quote Originally Posted by tpelle View Post
    Plywood Diesel Cruiser in the book "Boats With An Open Mind". I gather the design was built by the original customer for use on the St.Clair River and Lake St. Clair. It's a kind of Downeast sort of cruiser really very similar to the Redwing 23, except the Bolger design is a v-bottomed inboard where the Redwing is usually flat-bottomed and outboard-powered, although I think the drawings show a v-bottom version.

    I live near Cincinnati, Ohio on the banks of the Ohio River, and though I really love sailboats, the Redwing 23 would be a more practical boat for me - especially in the flat-bottom version. She could be anchored way over close to the bank where the tugboats and barges can't reach, and could poke into some of the shallow tributaries.
    I spent a good bit of time on the banks of the Ohio myself as a young guy in WV, near the Kentucky border- watching the tugs and barges heaped with coal, throwing sticks for my girls retriever to fetch and dreaming of making a break for the coast.

    There is a motor sailer version of the Redwing- think its the 26 footer he has drawings of- could probably be done with the 23 as well - maybe not real practical, but you never know when you might get a chance to use your sail.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    no trailer
    the trailer is the only thing I'd be caught next to out of all that rig

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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wright View Post
    ... that Bateau 23 thingy is butt ugly...
    To each his own. I find it quite easy on the eyes.

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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    And what's a Redwing 23? I can find a 21 and a 26 but no 23.

    I like the box keel on the 26

    Last edited by JimD; 01-03-2011 at 12:04 PM.

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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    If you go to Stambaugh's site (http://www.cmdboats.com/rw21pilothouse.htm), there's a link on the page for the Redwing 21 that takes you to a line drawing of the 23. The 23 is basically just a lengthened version of the 21, and is built from the same drawings.

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    Default Re: What do you think of this ?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    To each his own. I find it quite easy on the eyes.
    Of course you're correct, tastes vary, and I often wonder what drives my tastes too. I wonder as boats get uglier, if tastes will change to accomodate and accept the ugly ones.

    When a fellow presents a candidate boat that he will potentially build it would be nice if he would know and answer in advance the 20 to 40 questions that are best answered before starting a build. You know them all, but they're seldom formalized; all centered on: will you ever really start the project, what do you want to spend, what does it really cost, how long does it take, how big, how small, where will it be used, how capable do you want it, sail, power, or both, do you like building more than using, do you like using more than building, what's your building experience, will you finish the project, what's your boating experince, and on and on and on it goes. Tough questions because they interject just a shade of reality to nice dreams.

    Since we never know someone's answers to these questions, we wind up presenting other candidate boats and other paths so see what sort of reaction we get. It'a part of the sifting and winnowing process. I presented an ugly fiberglass alternative to the Bateau 23 houseboat. I selected it just because I'd noticed the boat, noticed it's price, and also noticed that its engine and outdrive were operable. There are thousands of old boats like this; some ugly and some pretty. I personally wouldn't want to own that boat right now, I don't like it at all and I have a boat for my current needs.

    However, if one considers the possibilities that often occurs in amateur boat building - years of work (and delayed work), thousands of dollars of materials, a product that sometimes goes unfinished or winds up being less than presentable, then it's maybe wise to consider some other possibilities.

    One possibility is to buy an old but functioning, albeit ugly, boat for 3 or 4 grand and try using it for some of the dreams WHILE building the real boat of one's dreams. It let's you know whether the dreams are as good as you might think, it let's you find out how often you'll actually use a boat, and it gives you some respite from the tedium of a long building project. If Dutch starts the Bateau 23, I hope he finishes it and I hope it meets his needs.

    Forgot to mention, I posted that fiberglass tub for laughs too, in case that wasn't obvious.
    Last edited by Dave Wright; 01-03-2011 at 01:04 PM.

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