Herreshoff 34' Ketch

[Sean Miller]

I need help identifying a particular Herreshoff design.
LOA: 34'
Beam: 9'6"
Draft: 5'9"
Displacement: 16000
Rig: Ketch
There are a few pictures and some info at
http://www2.yachtworld.com/boats/vie...&access=Public

Sean

[John B]

Neria is about that size and appearance.

[ken mcclure]

Yep. Looks alot like a Neria. Don't have my copy of Sensible Cruising Designs handy, and the cabin profile doesn't ring a bell.

If you're looking at her, check around the keel. Neria has the garboards bolted directly to the lead keel, so that the lead keel is actually part of the structure. I've not heard of any problems associated with this but it's something to consider in the survey.

Looks to be a great one! Good luck!

[mmd]

Sorry to be the wet blanket, but it ain't Nereia. I'm currently doing design work on two Herreshoff reproductions (Mobjack & Bounty) for a VERY knowledgeable client (family friend of LFH) and have been eating, sleeping, and breathing Herreshoff design details for the last while. I believe the client owned an original Herreshoff Manufacturing Company Nereia, and his next boats are utilizing a lot of the un-documented details of this boat. Nereia has a straight keel and narrow chord rudder in profile unlike the pictured boats' cut-away forefoot and round "Tioga"-like rudder, and she has a beam of 11', not 9'-6". The cabin profile is almost certainly NOT a Herreshoff design - to the best of my knowledge, none of LFH's designs featured a split-height cabin profile. I don't have any resources on hand that allows me to identify the boat, but you coud possibly make an identification by contacting the Herreshoff Museum. The boat in question is certainly attractive and very Herreshoff-ish, but not Nereia.

[John B]

I can't comment on the keel profile because I don't have my books to hand, but I always take brokers measurements with a grain of salt. The cabin profile is a very common treatment here for Nereia and mobjacks but I agree with mmd....... any number of clipper bow boats with the Herreshoff look have been attributed to him.
"Its a Herreshoff , but I raised the freeboard, changed the cabin,altered the layout and had a local designer make a better keel."

[Sean Miller]

I have searched through Sensible Cruising Designs and Boat Plans At Mystic Seaport and the closest boat I found was Neria. The boat at the link is Orca. Gary Bergman bought it in July of last year. I e-mailed Gary about the boat, but haven't recieve any answer. Looks like the search continues.

Sean

[John B]

Gary was looking for plans for a tender for a Nereia. That would imply to me that we are looking at a Nereia with incorrectly quoted dimensions.

[Phil Young]

Hmmm, maybe the case didn't go so well. "Ugh Lawyers". Should be able to get the boat for a good price.

[Scott Rosen]

This boat doesn't have the LF Herreshoff "knuckle bow." My only qualification is that I have spent countless hours staring at the line drawings of Neria. This boat doesn't look like Neria to me.

[Sean Miller]

At last we have an answer. ORCA is an Araminta, design no. 89, enlarged to 34' with a 9' beam. The cabin has a 'doghouse' added for standing headroom in the galley.

[John B]

one of these?

http://www.sailingmatters.com/photog...s_Whitecap.jpg

Why won't that link..? looks like the old copy and paste eh......

HA!! a line between the text and URL!!

[This message has been edited by John B (edited 06-28-2001).]

[This message has been edited by John B (edited 06-28-2001).]

[ken mcclure]

Well. Clears that up. So when do you take posession?

[Gary Bergman]

As someone mentioned, Nereia has a straight transom, and Orca has acounter stern mebbee 5 feet past the rudder post.Also, she is 38' overall; 34 on deck.P.S. As to cabin profile, here on the left coast, eight out of nine H-28's have done a similar change in profile.

[This message has been edited by Gary Bergman (edited 06-28-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Gary Bergman (edited 06-29-2001).]

[Gary Bergman]

Ah, morning comes and with its arrival, the months of salt spray disappear and leave me with new thoughts. I should have mentioned that if I were to want a 'bluewater' cruiser as you implied in your email, I would build or own a Marco Polo by the same N.A. Pretty much the same sail plan as ORCA but with that nice third mast.

[AMB]

I found this old thread while doing a Google search on L.F. Herreshoff's BOUNTY design. I was fascinated at the lengths these folks went to to try to figure out which Herreshoff design was in question in this thread. The answer is very straight forward. It isn't a Herreshoff design. When LFH and most of his contemporary yacht designers were designing, they put great stock into defining and defending the integrity their designs. Each boat, custom-built to their designs, was a reflection on their reputation as designers, so, in general, they did not tolerate unapproved modification. In LFH's case, if a design was modified by anyone but himself, or a designer he approved of, he no longer considered it one of his designs. If this vessel is really a radical modification of ARAMINTA, he would have had as much trouble recognizing the vessel in question as these folks did. He would have also been nothing short of alarmed to hear that it was thought to be one of his designs. This kind of integrity is a major part of what made these designers and their yachts great enough to be talked about and sought after so many decades later. When we admire classic wooden boats today, one of good design and building pedigree, it is important not to forget that this notion of personal and professional integrity played a big part in the creation of the masterpieces we are admiring. The vessel in question may be a good boat, but, if it has been radically modified as discussed, the Old Man would have looked at you as if you had 15 heads if you had suggested that it in any way was one of his designs. The respected and sought-after name Herreshoff has been associated with several generations of very special vessels designed by various members of that very gifted American family. The name should not be taken in vain. (BTW, I found what I was looking for in my Google search on BOUNTY and was motivated to finally join The Woodenboat Forum as a result of this thread and its challenges. Thanks and Fair breezes!)

[impalatech]

Not too sure about a Nereia. I own one but the beam is greater at 11ft, length is 36ft, draft 5'3. Otherwise similar, perhaps someone has tweeked design or the stats are incorrect. I have photos of mine out of the water if you are interested.

Cheers Don

[Jay Greer]

Having been closely associated with quite a few Herreshoff boats over the years as well as having known LFH and also spending time in his home, shop and at his drafting table leaves me to agree with others that this boat is not a Herreshoff Design.
Jay

[Jay Greer]

All in all, LFH designed six clipper bowed ketches; the 72' "Tioga II" later named
"Ticonderoga", the 67'9" "Unicorn", the 57'6" center board ketch "Tioga", her fixed keel sister "Bounty", the 36' "Neria" and the 33' "Araminta". "Araminta" has been aptly described as being "a riot of curves"! She is a design that is easily capable of exceeding her hull speed when the wind hauls aft and she is able to lift her skirts and fly, leaving her competition well astern.