Scow Schooners

[holzbt]

Since Roger Long's thread "A Sailing Vessel for the Differently Enabled" seems to have a slight drift towards scows I thought there should be a dedicated thread. So post away about your favorite scows.

[Nicholas Scheuer]

I always though a Scow Schooner would be a great liveaboard for coastal waters; shoal draft yet very stable, and with maximum deck space for a given length.

Moby Nick

[holzbt]

Here's one of my favorites. Designed by Pete Culler, built by Brooklin Boatyard. 45' x 15' x 2 1/2'

[seanz]

Favourite scows?

The NZ ones.

[holzbt]

[holzbt]

Ex LILY of TISBURY, originally a sloop.

[Ian McColgin]

Yep. I've long admired Nina and it's a real treat for the first time to see a bit below.

[donald branscom]

Here is a photo of Bill Martinelli's Gas Light steel scow schooner. Sausalito ,Ca.

60 ft. LOA

[George Ray]

Chappell's 'American Small Sailing Craft' , v-bottom Gulf Coast Scow schooner.
I would like to do one in steel, aluminum or "Cooper Nickel" at about 65ft LOD.

There was one of these being built on Gulf Coast a couple of years ago, but the project may have died, DARN IT!
They had the boat lofted and main timbers milled and it was in frame last I heard.
A non-profit, education foundation dedicated to creating a marine museum and boatbuilding school – now building a Gulf Coast Scow Schooner

PO Box 1509 Anahuac, TX 77514
p: (409) 267 4402
http://www.scowschooner.com

From a web archive:

"Howard Gmelch, director of the Scow Schooner Project, says the schooner is beginning to resemble the plans in this 1998 photo. Work continues Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays, September-March at the Chambers County Airport in Anahuac. To volunteer, go to www.scowschooner.org."


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Thread on Boat Design Forum:
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boa...scow-5131.html

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Reuel Parler 33' scow (Gaff or Junk)
http://www.parker-marine.com/scow33page.htm

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[Boatsmith]

worked on the rebuild of the Alma in the early 90's. That was a real treat. Yesterday i was returning to Jupiter from the Wharram gathering in Stuart and I came across Lily. She has no engine and was laboring into about a 25 knot headwind with a lot of wind chop. She was being pushed by a small inflatable with a small outboard and was barely making headway. I came alongside and took a towline from them. We were making about 2 1/2 knots but the wind continued to build and we diverted to Manatee Pocket which was down wind Their tender out board failed completely and I towed them about 5 mils and after they andhored took their passengers to shore.
I too think that the scow would make for a great liveaboard cruiser for many folks. I would like to build one of Parker's designs

[SamSam]

Here's line and plans for the 'Alma'. (cripes, that url looks scary)

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=hhsheet&fileName=ca/ca1500/ca1505/sheet/browse.db&action=browse&recNum=0&title2=Scow%20Sch ooner%20ALMA,%20Hyde%20Street%20Pier,%20San%20Fran cisco,%20San%20Francisco%20County,%20CA&displayTyp e=1&maxCols=2&itemLink=D?hh:2:./temp/~ammem_Tq4F::@@@mdb=mcc,gottscho,detr,nfor,wpa,aap ,cwar,bbpix,cowellbib,calbkbib,consrvbib,bdsbib,da g,fsaall,gmd,pan,vv,presp,varstg,suffrg,nawbib,hor yd,wtc,toddbib,mgw,ncr,ngp,musdibib,hlaw,papr,lhbu mbib,rbpebib,lbcoll,alad,hh,aaodyssey,magbell,bbca rds,dcm,raelbib,runyon,dukesm,lomaxbib,mtj,gottlie b,aep,qlt,coolbib,fpnas,aasm,scsm,denn,relpet,amss ,aaeo,mffbib,afc911bib,mjm,mnwp,rbcmillerbib,molde n,ww2map,mfdipbib,afcnyebib,hawp,omhbib,rbaapcbib, mal,ncpsbib,ncpm,lhbprbib,ftvbib,afcreed,aipn,cwba nd,flwpabib,wpapos,cmns,psbib,pin,coplandbib,cola, tccc,curt,mharendt,lhbcbbib,eaa,haybib,mesnbib,fin e,cwnyhs,svybib,mmorse,afcwwgbib,mymhiwebib,uncall ,afcwip,mtaft,manz,llstbib,fawbib,berl,fmuever,cdn ,upboverbib,mussm,cic,afcpearl,awh,awhbib,sgp,wrig ht,lhbtnbib,afcesnbib,hurstonbib,mreynoldsbib,spal dingbib,sgproto

[htom]

It may look ugly, but it works.

[James McMullen]

For whatever reason, I just love those scow schooners! Love 'em!
I just really like double-enders I guess.

[donald branscom]

This would make a beautiful model about 3 feet in length.


Howard Chappelle's scow dutch type 22 feet.

Another scow model 12 inches and 1'=1inch scale for a 12 foot scow.
Scratch built. From the Model Boatyard.
St. Michaels Sailing Scow.

[Roger Long]

We saw this scow sloop hauled up on Greens Island across from Vinalhaven a few years ago:



She's owned by a famous artist whose name escapes me and whose studio is this west coast salmon troller far from home:



Despite my interest in classic proportions and expanded sheer lines, I've always had a weakness for boxy boats although I've tired hard to keep it under control with Bolger as an example of what can happen when you let something go too far. You'll notice that, even when I draw a round bottom boat, I usually try to find a way to make part of the bottom flat.

Those of you in Maine are probably familiar with these two craft of my design:


http://www.rogerlongboats.com/Boats.htm#Reliance


http://www.rogerlongboats.com/Boats.htm#Transporter

A version of the second was designed for all the pieces to fit in containers and transported over mountain roads to be assembled on the shores of a large lake in Africa 3000 feet above sea level. A second smaller box boat and matching barges are also under construction there. Another power scow of my design is tied up in Portland next to the large barge which sits over the spot where Mickey Finn lies on the bottom.

I also designed a two of the Prock Marine barges and couple others that Rockland Marine built.

If you want to carry something, put it in a box.

[holzbt]

Garden's 40' Scow

[holzbt]

Harry Sucher's scow schooner from Simplified Boatbuilding.



And a sloop from the same book.

[Breakaway]

Was running a boat through Stuart, Florida on Monday and saw this scow schooner. Name/hail on transom = "Emily" "Maine." Took a few cell phone pics.
ETA: ABout 30 LOD, solid spars.





Kevin

[Steveh]

Those bow sections look really chunky. How do they preform in a good seaway? I bet they trow up a fair amount of spray.

The Jane Gifford has featured on WB forums before but here is the web site if you're interested in the New Zealand development of the scow.

http://www.janegifford.org.nz/index.htm

[Ian McColgin]

Wind on the beam or down wind the big bow is either a neutral or rather nice, not that you'll plane but you could sorta-surf. On a wind that's big enough to pick of waves you might care about, these boats do quite well in steep long-shore chop. When you sail at about 15 degrees heel - about the right safe place though you can go further and kiss the rail - the lee chine is what's really taking the seas and it's sharp and comfortable. With a conventional hull, if you pop hard over a bit of steep 4'-6' chop you may slap the leeward side of the bow pretty hard since that surface is nearly parallel with the sea. With these scows, it's the weather side under the chine that's exposed to the wave on the side going up - little slap though breaking foam can slow you - and after you crest and start to fall down the back of the wave, no big exposed lee side to slap as the chine slices the water.

[Brian Palmer]

When "Lilly of Tisbury" was a sloop and carrying cargo about 1980, she also had leeboards. She was sailing between Martha's Vineyard (where she was built) and New Bedford at the same time I was on Martha's Vineyard. On separate trips, I saw her carry a VW bug (or some other car), a fair sized catboat (maybe about 18 ft?), and a load of rocks.

Brian

[Breakaway]

What design is she, Brian? Do you know?

Kevin

[johngsandusky]

Interesting, not beautiful. They do interest me, but in the end I always figure I'd just put a pointy bow on it, Thanks for posting.

[jantje]

Well, I don't have a "favorite Scow-schooner" cause I never heard about or even saw anything alike.
Seeing the first picture in this thread, I was very quickly reminded of those small boats from the Netherlands, called "Zee-Schouw" and was about to ask wether there is any relation between one and the other.
"Scow" and "Schouw" sounds related....and the shape of the hull definitely seems similar.
seeing the picture from Donald Branscom of what he calls a Dutch Scow clarified the matter by itself though.

In the Netherlands they have schooners with a flat bottom and those sideplanes ( is that the correct english word ? > well You know , what I mean )... but they call them "Clipper" because they have a sharp "Clippership-style"-bow. I Never saw a shooner wit the hull-characterisits of a Schouw before though. Looks kinda awkward but VERY interesting indeed.
I like them allready, simply by looking at the pictures.....nice boats they are!

I wonder , how they stay on keel-course without the side-planes though

This forum is wonderful....I know a LITTLE bit of allmost everything, but since I'm in here, the "LITTLE" started to grow into a "LITTLE LARGER" every day.
Keep it up guys !!

Jantje

[Harbormaster]

We saw this scow sloop hauled up on Greens Island across from Vinalhaven a few years ago:



She's owned by a famous artist whose name escapes me and whose studio is this west coast salmon troller far from home:

Roger, That's Buckley Smith's old scow, "Banjo." She sailed around Penobscot Bay for a few years, I can't find any online pictures, but there's one of her in Maine Boats Homes and Harbors #107. And the west coast boat is his cruising machine, "Sweet Chariot."

[David Cockey]

Circa 1995 we spent the night before the Penobscot Bay schooner race anchored in Fox Island Thorofare with the schooners and other interesting boats. Banjo was there with a band on board providing entertainment. I also recall two larger, open boats from the Cherwonki camps which were on a trip along the coast. The crews were spending the night aboard under tarps.

Back to Banjo. I suspect the photo on this page http://buckleysmith.com/island.html of Buckley at the wheel of boat behind a pile of rocks was taken on Banjo. My 30-plus year old recollections of an article in National Fisherman are that one of the original intended uses for Banjo was carrying logs or firewood harvested on islands without regular landing facilities. Banjo would just be run up on a beach or other suitable spot along the shore. There was mention of possibly carrying a small 4WD Kubota tractor onboard and landing it on the islands to drag the logs to the beach.

[Woxbox]

Aha -- the man who drew this:

[Brian Palmer]

What design is she, Brian? Do you know?

Kevin

No idea. She was built on the beach in Vineyard Haven, right near where Gannon and Benjamin set up shop a couple years later, if I am not mistaken. (I bet they would know the answer to your question.) She may have been of the builder's own design.

Brian

[McMike]

Howard Chappelle's scow dutch type 22 feet.

I've been a googling but no joy . . . where do I find plans for this and to the experts, what are the limitations on this boat for example, can I sail it on the LI Sound with no worries?

[seanz]

I've been a googling but no joy

But Google is joy.


And if that fails.......books still work.


Try page 230 of Boatbuilding, A Complete Handbook of Wooden Boat Construction by Howard I. Chapelle.

It is called a "22-foot Scow Sloop, Utility Boat of the Dutch Type"

[Woxbox]

...and I'd say it looks mighty fine for L.I. Sound.

[capt. fred]

This is the Lily and she is a coastguard certified passenger vessel. We run three sails a day out of Stuart. She use to haul cargo under sail in Martha's Vinyard. She is 40' on deck with a 15.5' beam.

[Brian Palmer]

Welcome, Capt. Fred!

Can you fill us in on the history of Lilly after she left the Vineyard? When was she switched from the sloop to schooner rig, and what was done to replace the leeboards?

Thank you,

Brian

[earling2]

No idea. She was built on the beach in Vineyard Haven, right near where Gannon and Benjamin set up shop a couple years later, if I am not mistaken. (I bet they would know the answer to your question.) She may have been of the builder's own design.

Brian

Lily was designed and built by Rick Brown who had his own shop and then worked at MV Shipyard for a long time and last I heard (3 years ago) had his own shop again, at Maciel Marine. (I interviewed him for a newspaper article about a pair of spruce planked dories he made for himself and his son.) I watched it go together out of the corner of my eye, and remember them pushing a plank into position with the nose of a pickup truck. The idea was to start up the wind-powered shipping industry but apparently it never really took off. I do remember seeing that catboat on Lily's deck . . .

absolutely love scows

[earling2]

And no, she wasn't built at the G&B site, she was built right next to the Black Dog restaurant, adjacent to what used to be the Wintertide Cafe, on the street, unless my memory fails me. Them weren't quite so touristy days back then (mid to late 80s maybe?)

[holzbt]

Might have been late 70's. I remember seeing LILY in Kenebunkport in 1981 as a sloop.

[earling2]

yup you're right about that. Fits in better with the timeline of the vineyard, too (and my own)

[boat fan]

Howard Chappelle's scow dutch type 22 feet.

I've been a googling but no joy . . . where do I find plans for this and to the experts, what are the limitations on this boat for example, can I sail it on the LI Sound with no worries?

From Here : ( nice boat ) !

http://thegreatsea.homestead.com/boat.html

[McMike]

Awsome . . . Thank you!!!!

[McMike]

I just ordered Boatbuilding, A Complete Handbook of Wooden Boat Construction by Howard I. Chapelle as suggested. Now I have to wait for 7 days . . . only $10 though.

[boat fan]

Had a look on Amazon and took a sample ` peek` inside ( index search ).

There was only mention of a sail plan of that boat.

Good luck anyway!

Chapelle drawings may be found elsewhere too.....?

I would do a thorough search at your library for sure if no other luck.

I think the boat would be worth the trouble if built.

[boat fan]

Topsail schooner rigged scow Echo

The USS Echo (IX-95) was a flat-bottom sailing scow built in New Zealand in 1905. Plying the waters of the South Pacific as a supply ship for 30 or more years before being loaned to the U.S. during World War II, at which time (1943) she was re-commissioned and brought into service for the war effort. Between 1943 and 1944 she carried Army cargoes over some 40,000 kilometers of ocean. Her other claim to fame is that she is the boat at the heart of the movie, The Wackiest Ship in the Army, starring Jack Lemmon and Ricky Nelson. Although the real Echo could not be used for the making of the movie (the original vessel was still in service when the movie was made in 1960), the film makers found another schooner to take her place.

http://www.ecasttv.co.nz/program_det...d=60&group_id=

[Breakaway]

here was only mention of a sail plan of that boat.

In my copy of the book, the sailplan is on page 229 and the contsruction drawings are on page 230. Has offsets, body, plan, and profile views and build details. It would need to be blown up a bit to read the numbers legibly.

Kevin

[boat fan]

There you go McMike !

Good news !

Thank you Breakaway.

[whb]

If a person was interested in extended gunk holing. It seems this may be a very good plan.
Maybe with twin keels for sitting upright on the mud.

Howard

[billcanoe]

The CRBB are building a 36x13 scow.

[billcanoe]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...28_49319_n.jpg

[Canoeyawl]

Did someone say Gunkholing?

[boat fan]

Would it be feasible to scale this to 30 ft ?
Surely it would be a great "gunkholer "?
Great ergonomics , look at all that room !

[donald branscom]

To understand what it would really be like to live on a 30 foot scow schooner make a cutout of a person to the scale of the model.

You will see that there is not enough head room without raising the cabin house, and then the boat will look ugly.
The size you would need would be 40 feet not 30 feet.

If you do decide to build it ,make the hull out of steel plate. It will cost the lowest amount.
Also no frames would be needed. Use 3/8-1/2 inch plate for the bottom and 3/16- 1/4 inch for the sides.
That is for a boat 40 feet long.

A much better choice and a better looking boat would be Howard Chappelle's 36 foot modified sharpie.
It looks a lot like a scow schooner but much prettier.
It has a slight V bottom and is 36 FEET and that v bottom would give you more head room.
It could also be built with steel for a very low cost.
The hull could be steel 1/4 for the bottom and steel 3/16 for the sides. 10 guage for the cabins and deck.
Almost no frames. Just some deck beams.

Of coarse the scow schooner will give you more deck space.

And as Thomas Colvin said, for every foot of draft you do NOT have, increases your possible anchorages by 5 times.