The outrigger and proa thread

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  • rodwade
    Member
    • Mar 2011
    • 84

    Re: The outrigger and proa thread

    typically masts have cleats rivited into them. Be sure to use aluminum rivits so that you don't have different metal types which causes galvanic oxidation. Alum-Alum, Stainless-stainless, Mopar found out the hard way. My 2009 jeep is in the shop all this week because they put aluminum door hinges on steel body with no insulators between the metals. The door hinges are corroding so fast they have to keep my jeep this week to repaint all the hinges under warranty.

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    • rodwade
      Member
      • Mar 2011
      • 84

      Re: The outrigger and proa thread

      Originally posted by peterchech
      Ahem... I built mine for $10.00... :-)

      I have to say though, Trefor that is def a hell of a deal for aluminum tubing, and if I had had that option I def would have gone with it. How much does that aluminum tube weigh? Maybe you could buy a little extra and use it for crossbeams? That would really save you some time...

      I would do a forum search before buying though, as I recall some people having problems with aluminum flagpoles that were adapted to masts. Then again there is a tendency on this forum for some people to just arbitrarily claim that anything not stamped "marine" couldn't possibly work in a boat...
      Peter flag poles sometimes have parts like pullies and such which are mild steel and will corrode quickly. Also some of the issue may have been wall thickness not being large enough and the "masts" bending. Flag poles typically don't endure the stress we put on these boats.

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      • Dan St Gean
        Senior Member
        • Nov 2004
        • 1138

        Re: The outrigger and proa thread

        Originally posted by peterchech
        Ahem... I built mine for $10.00... :-)

        I have to say though, Trefor that is def a hell of a deal for aluminum tubing, and if I had had that option I def would have gone with it. How much does that aluminum tube weigh? Maybe you could buy a little extra and use it for crossbeams? That would really save you some time...

        ..
        But is it 24' long? ;-) Using aluminum tube for the iakos is a super time saver as building box beams is time consuming. If you build some Tamanu type saddles they'll work a treat. If your ama is large volume, youmight want to go larger than 2" though, as on the trimaran tack it has to resist all the torque of the freestanding mast and the buoyancy of the ama. The XCR seemed to do fine with smaller tubes as did "Chief's" tri using a 50 square foot sail. Up the sail area or volume of the ama and you'll have to up the strength of the iakos.

        Dan
        Last edited by Dan St Gean; 03-24-2011, 12:38 PM.

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        • trefor
          Senior Member
          • Jun 2009
          • 653

          Re: The outrigger and proa thread

          Peter,

          It's spar grade aluminum (6061-T6). At speced dimensions from the book. Actually, if I go with the .125, it's a little beefier than designed. Gary calls for 2mm, which I think is closer to the .065 walled material. .125 adds another mm or so to the wall thickness. Also, when i bugged Mike and Jackie Monies about the mast used on their cartopper, Noble Plan, they told me they used .065 wall and it's worked really well (they even used a smaller diameter, by .25"). If it works on a 16', 59sq leg-of-mutton, it should do OK on a 54sq Hawaiian rig, i think.

          I've already made my crossbeams/iakos. If i went with the tubing, I think I'd have to build cradles to sit on the gunwales to accommodate the round beam. The wooden straight iakos I've made start rectangular at the gunwales and taper round to the ama connection points. Since I'm using crossed struts to support the iakos, I wanted the connection points there to lash easier.

          My whole thinking on the canoe has been to make it as simple as possible. With my inspiration being third world fishing outriggers. If I could get large diameter bamboo in Missouri, without costing an arm or a leg, I'd have used it for all spars and beams. I don't even know if I'll graduate beyond a homemade tarp sail.

          Trevor
          http://trevor-whatever.blogspot.com/

          Comment

          • rodwade
            Member
            • Mar 2011
            • 84

            Re: The outrigger and proa thread

            I've been looking for bamboo here in Texas as well had a guy offer to "get" me some from Alabama or somewhere for an ungodly price.

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            • peterchech
              Senior Member
              • Apr 2010
              • 796

              Re: The outrigger and proa thread

              due to your post I just made some calls and spec'd some aluminum near me, I was hoping to use it for the tramps, .125" walled 2" diameter tubing costs $300 for the minimum 48' length they will sell me... too much since I already have all the wood I need to make hollow box beams...
              “The difference between an adventurer and anybody else is that the youthful embrace of discovery, of self or of the world, is not muted by the responsibilities or the safety-catches of maturity.” Jonathan Borgais

              Comment

              • trefor
                Senior Member
                • Jun 2009
                • 653

                Re: The outrigger and proa thread

                Originally posted by Dan St Gean
                If your ama is large volume, youmight want to go larger than 2" though, as on the trimaran tack it has to resist all the torque of the freestanding mast and the buoyancy of the ama. The XCR seemed to do fine with smaller tubes as did "Chief's" tri using a 50 square foot sail. Up the sail area or volume of the ama and you'll have to up the strength of the iakos.

                Dan
                My ama should be about 8"x8" and 11' 10" long, glass over foam with a plywood stringer/shear web. It'll be straight with upturned ends, based off of Mr. Dierking's ama shown here... http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/garyd/quikama.html

                But with struts like he uses on his T2 or his Fijian Tamanu with a PVC ama. That way I can maybe convert the boat to a proa at a later date, without too much effort.

                Trevor
                http://trevor-whatever.blogspot.com/

                Comment

                • Dan St Gean
                  Senior Member
                  • Nov 2004
                  • 1138

                  Re: The outrigger and proa thread

                  I'm a fan of slightly larger amas. I like to use my tramp space for hanging out and lying around. With roughly 4.88888888 cubic feet and water weighing in the neighborhood of 62-64 pounds, you displace potentially 300 pounds. Subtract the ama's weight, the weight of the structure over it and so forth and you are left with perhaps 250 pounds on the upside. I'm 220 all by myself without a life jacket or crew. I'd rather up the volume to something a bit more. Add a couple inches to the height or a foot or two to to the length and keep everything else the same. Then you can lounge with your crew on the tramp without swamping.

                  Kevin O'Neil is on hes second ama and here's what he wrote about it,
                  "The ama was still the little ply v cross section ama. It was a 'sinker', it wouldn't hold me up, so I had to dance in and out as the wind changed. And the ply mounts to the beams were giving out. Its time was done, I got rid of it. I wanted a bigger ama, one that would hold up two people if asked. 600 lbs of volume sounded good to me. I drew some shapes I liked and read Gary Dierking's article on making a glass over solid foam ama."



                  The 300# ama is great for a solo boat, but I like to be able to sail with crew if I want.

                  Dan
                  Last edited by Dan St Gean; 03-24-2011, 12:33 PM.

                  Comment

                  • trefor
                    Senior Member
                    • Jun 2009
                    • 653

                    Re: The outrigger and proa thread

                    I'll go ahead and reply to this here.

                    Originally posted by paradoxbox
                    Howdy all.

                    Spring and summer are on their way!

                    I want to build a boat this year. I have no boat building experience so I want to build something very simple, fairly small but fast. I guess under 20 feet but longer is OK too if there are good cheap to build plans out there.

                    My conclusion is that a proa is probably the simplest thing to make as proas are light, fast and strong.

                    Anyone have any super simple build ideas or plans that they know of? I have seen a REALLY simple looking outrigger/proa on youtube that looked interesting.

                    I live in Japan so I have a lot of access to bamboo.

                    I was thinking maybe simple plywood slabs for the hulls, with bamboo and lashing for everything else, and crab claw or lateen rig using a tarp/home made sail. I'd like to keep the budget under around $300 if possible - Don't tell me it can't be done, a quickly put together multihull doesn't need that many sheets of wood..! Bamboo is free around here so the only thing that ought to cost is the plywood, tarp for a sail, rope, screws and glue. I figure I can probably make a mast out of bamboo. I could probably even make the smaller hull out of PVC or bamboo.

                    One other requirement, I don't have a shop so everything is going to be done with hand tools. I'm not building a masterpiece, just a fun little thing to zip up and down the coast at a good pace.

                    The boat does not need to last forever. Some cheap waterproof paint or sealant is good enough for me, if the thing lasts more than 2 seasons I'll be happy.

                    If you have any ideas or links to designs, let me see em!

                    So far I've got my eye on this thing:
                    http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/garyd/wa_apa.html
                    the wa'apa can be done inexpensively. $300 is pushing it a bit. i'm thinking mine will end up around $500 and i've cut corners a lot. you might come close to your goal, if you avoid epoxy altogether, using polyurethane glue and just painting the hull. you'll take a hit on abrasion resistance, though. if you see my pic posted on the previous page of this thread, i'm sitting about $200-250 into my build at the point that it was taken. i'm about half done. the cost was spread out over the past five-six months.

                    hand tools shouldn't be too much of a problem if you are using bamboo for all your connecting timbers and spars. so far i've built mine with a jig saw, cordless screwdriver, drill, palm sander and hand plane. i did have to borrow my father-in-law's table saw/band saw for cutting the chine logs and stems.

                    trevor
                    http://trevor-whatever.blogspot.com/

                    Comment

                    • Bo Ting
                      Junior Member
                      • Jul 2010
                      • 3

                      Re: The outrigger and proa thread

                      Hi folks-

                      You can add me to the list of people who have plans to build something from Gary's book. I'm looking at the T2 and I was wondering about it's paddling performance?

                      Comment

                      • Dan St Gean
                        Senior Member
                        • Nov 2004
                        • 1138

                        Re: The outrigger and proa thread

                        Originally posted by Bo Ting
                        Hi folks-

                        You can add me to the list of people who have plans to build something from Gary's book. I'm looking at the T2 and I was wondering about it's paddling performance?
                        Kevin just linked a blog with a guy that built on eon the beach in Mexico. Check out his build at http://grillabongquixotic.wordpress....e-flying-proa/

                        He added side rudders and it's working well now.
                        Dan

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                        • wtarzia
                          Senior Member
                          • Feb 2007
                          • 2104

                          Re: The outrigger and proa thread

                          A couple of photos of the new(er) trimaran conversion of my single-outrigger are posted at http://www.wtarzia.com/Trimaran_conversion.html . I didn't update most of the text I wrote last November; will get around to that. -- Wade

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                          • rodwade
                            Member
                            • Mar 2011
                            • 84

                            Re: The outrigger and proa thread

                            Going to look at some bamboo Groves tomorrow. WHat sizes should I be looking for and it what lengths? Any ideas on how to tell good from bad?

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                            • rodwade
                              Member
                              • Mar 2011
                              • 84

                              The outrigger and proa thread

                              picked up some cut bamboo...scored and found a guy willing to give me all the cut bamboo that was in the grove. Found some pieces 2"+ in diameter that was just about full wood inside. Aslo bought a timber bamboo plant for the back yard that will provide more if needed in the next few years or so. He even offered to cut me some green bamboo if I want some. It helps that he is about 15 miles away. He said he has some 4" pieces in his back yard if I wanted them. He had so many species of bamboo to choose between. He helped out a lot with choices of what is "good" bamboo's to use for boat building.

                              Comment

                              • peterchech
                                Senior Member
                                • Apr 2010
                                • 796

                                The outrigger and proa thread

                                Nice guy rod! I wish i could grow bamboo up here, but the better species need a warm climate, i am told... what are u going to be using the bamboo for?
                                “The difference between an adventurer and anybody else is that the youthful embrace of discovery, of self or of the world, is not muted by the responsibilities or the safety-catches of maturity.” Jonathan Borgais

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