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Thread: The outrigger and proa thread

  1. #3431
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    Default Re: The outrigger and proa thread

    What is "Manchester by the Sea? I wanna see....

  2. #3432
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    Default Re: The outrigger and proa thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Brown View Post
    What is "Manchester by the Sea? I wanna see....
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4034228/

    In the copy I am watching, it is about 1:42 into the film.

    At anchor, looks like Cimba or Jzerro.

    Edit 2017 03-03 16:30:

    Here's a screen shot: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...p0NEFRQThPRVJ3
    Last edited by PeteCress; 03-03-2017 at 04:31 PM.

  3. #3433
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    Default Re: The outrigger and proa thread

    I think that's Kauri, Jzerro has never been to New England and that sure looks like New England.
    Jzerro will be going to Buzzards bay in the spring though (as far as I know) for a haul out and some modifications.

    Thanks Phil and Pete for bringing that to my attention. I'll bask in the glory.

  4. #3434
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    Default Re: The outrigger and proa thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Brown View Post
    ... that sure looks like New England.
    Correctamundo!

    The film is set in Manchester-by-the-Sea, Massachusetts - so I am guessing that's where the shot is.

  5. #3435
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    Default Re: The outrigger and proa thread

    RE: Mainsheet system on an outrigger canoe

    Regarding Va'a motu, I've an excellent purchase for a vang (a strong folding mast step with an inverted V rising from the aft end of the base.) I have a broad spread across the aft crossbeam under the end of the boom sweeping 30-40, and strong pipe parallels the hull from the forward to the aft crossbeams 3'5" out from the hull. This creates a good platform for a rope traveller. Because the tiller crosses over the aft crossbeam to starboard (the rudder is a lee rudder design; See pics of Va'a motu if you are interested) there isn't a way to install a solid traveller across this span.

    I was considering a powerful vang (6:1) for leech tension, and a low-stretch adjustable rope traveller across the aft crossbeam. I will have 2:1 purchases port and starboard to pull a ring with a block running on the rope traveller, with a block w/ becket above for a 3:1 mainsheet leading forward along the boom to the mast and then to a cam cleat at the mast base.

    My theory of working this will be to set the mainsheet, and play the traveller and the vang. The vang will provide the majority of downforce, so the rope traveller should be relatively unloaded. The mainsheet will be let out when the boom sweeps past the traveller, and then the traveller can be played again to adjust the angle of attack of the mainsail. The vang will still provide leech tension. The rope traveller can be adjusted if that improves sail control, but I don't think I will play with it much.

    My big questions are whether the 2:1 traveller control lines will be easily enough adjusted, and whether I need a better system to adjust the mainsheet than just a block with a cam cleat coming off the folding base plate. I could make the traveller 3:1 without too much complexity or tangles, and I could double end the mainsheet, bringing either end to an inner hull surface to be easily at hand.

    Comments?

  6. #3436

    Default Re: The outrigger and proa thread

    Sounds complicated, what do you hope to gain compared to a more standard setup?

    One good "trick" with a rope traveller is simply controlling the tension to alter the sheeting angle. With the traveller very tight the block tends to sit near the end, as you loosen the traveller the block moves toward the centre line of the boat.

    However, if your vang is powerful enough the traveller becomes pretty much pointless. A horizontal sprit or wishbone boom also achieves this.

  7. #3437
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    Default Re: The outrigger and proa thread

    I saw that shot, and it was actually Smith Cove Gloucester inner harbor, where Kauri has been moored just off the Marine Railway, looking exotic and capable.

  8. #3438
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    Default Re: The outrigger and proa thread

    I too saw Kauri once. This was when she was lying off Marigot in the W Indies.
    Reading these comments here, I realize that my thoughts should have been –‘what a fun boat’.

    But no, I was too hung up on esoteric issues to think that way.
    This is pretty much the same for me now whenever I travel over the Taipa bridge in far north NZ and see the harryproa lying there.
    Kauri is probably a quicker sailer than the harryproa, but I can honestly say that this is not enough reason to see either one of those proas having more fun appeal than the other.
    It probably comes down to the thing that my greatest boating pleasure has been felt when under way with the knowledge that I can go wherever I want, because I own the boat; that I am in fact freer than a bird, because I am travelling on and in my home.
    The above reasons alone are not valid for justifying a proa or outrigger canoe over any other type pf craft, because I suppose that I could just buy and own some or other multi or monohull to live on and go sailing.

    With enough money to spend I might even be able to buy a proa ( Kauri?? Or a harryproa),but building is the preferred option.

  9. #3439
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    Default Re: The outrigger and proa thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tdem View Post
    Sounds complicated, what do you hope to gain compared to a more standard setup?

    One good "trick" with a rope traveller is simply controlling the tension to alter the sheeting angle. With the traveller very tight the block tends to sit near the end, as you loosen the traveller the block moves toward the centre line of the boat.

    However, if your vang is powerful enough the traveller becomes pretty much pointless. A horizontal sprit or wishbone boom also achieves this.

    I couldn't seem to come up with a way to get a midline purchase for the mainsheet that still allowed me to sleep in the cockpit, and not have to always be twisting backwards to play the sheet. I considered boom sheeting, running the sheet forwards... but I like considering out of the box ideas, too.

    I'm trying to avoid the sideways pull of a mainsheet which screws up the airfoil, hence the traveller. There is advantage to having a small amount of line going up to the boom from the traveller as well... 6:1 or 8:1 mainsheet is a lot of line to pull in & keep in the cockpit, whereas the traveller lines criss-cross the boat behind the aft cross beam, where not much else is going on, so there are hardly any lines in the main cockpit area. The traveller lines feed to hand when sitting on the upwind side and the mainsheet is led forward, out of the way, perhaps to a side of the boat where my jib twings are located. The vang is controlled from a block on the cockpit floor on the midline just aft of the mast step.

    While sailing, I can sit on the upwind side steering with my aft hand, and playing the traveller, vang, or the jib sheet with my forward hand without twisting. I can adjust the mainsheet by reaching into the boat, but that won't be needed all that often, as the traveller will be the primary control line. I'm just hoping that 2:1 on the traveller will be enough. If the setup doesn't work, I can fairly easily modify to the more traditional adjustable bridle traveller you describe.

  10. #3440
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    Default Re: The outrigger and proa thread

    Quote Originally Posted by phil_mclean View Post
    I couldn't seem to come up with a way to get a midline purchase for the mainsheet that still allowed me to sleep in the cockpit, and not have to always be twisting backwards to play the sheet. I considered boom sheeting, running the sheet forwards... but I like considering out of the box ideas, too.

    I'm trying to avoid the sideways pull of a mainsheet which screws up the airfoil, hence the traveller. There is advantage to having a small amount of line going up to the boom from the traveller as well... 6:1 or 8:1 mainsheet is a lot of line to pull in & keep in the cockpit, whereas the traveller lines criss-cross the boat behind the aft cross beam, where not much else is going on, so there are hardly any lines in the main cockpit area. The traveller lines feed to hand when sitting on the upwind side and the mainsheet is led forward, out of the way, perhaps to a side of the boat where my jib twings are located. The vang is controlled from a block on the cockpit floor on the midline just aft of the mast step.

    While sailing, I can sit on the upwind side steering with my aft hand, and playing the traveller, vang, or the jib sheet with my forward hand without twisting. I can adjust the mainsheet by reaching into the boat, but that won't be needed all that often, as the traveller will be the primary control line. I'm just hoping that 2:1 on the traveller will be enough. If the setup doesn't work, I can fairly easily modify to the more traditional adjustable bridle traveller you describe.

    At first I was inclined to think much like tdem, but the va’a motu design is already that much “out the box” that a mainsheet and traveller system might just fit quite well.

    Had the craft been a conventional double outrigger with a trimaran type stern rudder, then a conventional vang and mainsheet would make sense.
    However, the quarter rudder on this (va’a motu) design should allow the tiller linkage system to pass under the after ama connect boom (kiato in the relevant vernacular) so a traveller fixed to the boom could work out OK.
    I’m not sure how the tiller is connected to the rudder cheeks in Gary’s plans, but a few mods would undoubtedly allow a tiller configuration that passes under the beam, and an extension would then allow control from either side of the vaka.

    Who know’s? with such a set-up it might even be possible to rig a jigger mizzen mast without having the same interference problem that conventional tillers have when there is a mast between cockpit and rudder

  11. #3441
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    Default Re: The outrigger and proa thread

    Lug .. The lee rudder has a tiller which comes forward at a shallow angle from the top of a cassette affixed by pintels to gudgeons on a pair of braces extending out from the starboard side aft of the aft crossbeam (or "kiato" if I understand your impressive vernacular). It passes above the aft crossbeam in the plans. I had a nice piece of aircraft spruce from the broken section of gaff boom from my Norseboat which I expensively rolled in the Delaware River, snapping the mast and the gaff boom. That piece of spruce has a gentle arc, and I've used it for the tiller; it scribes a gentle arc over the aft crossbeam, and it is quite pretty there. A tiller running below the aft crossbeam would strike the starboard hull with only about 10 degrees deflection during a turn to starboard, so I don't think that is a viable method to facilitate a rigid traveller.

    I deviated from Gary Dierking's plans by ordering a more traditional main with full length battens, and not using the modified junk rig he designed. My sailmaker didn't think he could design a sail to take advantage of the rigging system, and so we are following a more traditional path. This choice also makes the back of the boat fully clean for a mizzen if it were desired. The bulkhead at the aft end of the cockpit would be the natural spot to create partners.

    Spent my Father's Day making and epoxying G10 mounting pads onto the old NB mast which will serve as the boom for my boat. I wanted to avoid holes in the carbon fiber, so these are more than 2 mounting screw diameters thick, curved on the bottom to fit the boom and then afixed with an epoxy/silica mixture, then covered with a couple layers of glass. I don't have any CF, so I just filled the top weave with some graphite powder so it looks high tech and blends in. The pads hold an outhaul system like that on a modern laser rig, but with two fairleads aft and one where the vang will attach beneath. I will use some dyneema lashings also run through these fairleads to hang blocks below the boom for the mainsheet and vang. I went ahead and dropped the screws through the fairleads into their tapped holes while the layup was wet, so that job is now securely done.

  12. #3442

    Default Re: The outrigger and proa thread

    Quote Originally Posted by phil_mclean View Post
    I'm trying to avoid the sideways pull of a mainsheet which screws up the airfoil, hence the traveller.
    What do you mean by this?

    The way I see it you either need a traveller or you don't, and if the vang has enough purchase and the boom is stiff enough, you don't. In this case you're better off with a fixed bridle where the block is fixed to the middle of the bridle. This way you get almost no downward pull on the mainsheet, which translates to low force and therefore a system with less purchase required.

    A couple of ideas to keep the cockpit clear:
    1. Lead the mainsheet forward and directly off the middle of the boom to your hand. This could be combined with a fancy cleat if desired.
    2. Lead the mainsheet even further forward, then down to a block at the foot of the mast and to your hand.
    3. Conventional centre mainsheet with a quick release fitting for sleeping purposes

    Idea 2 is used with a wishbone boom on the new UFO foiler, must be good ;-)

    I've sailed a Paper Tiger a couple of times, and they use the traveller sheeting approach. It works pretty well upwind but of course off the wind still need the mainsheet. And of course playing the traveller you are still twisting back awkwardly. I also suspect that the system wouldn't work very well on a rope traveller unless you can get it extremely tight, based on my Laser sailing experience.

  13. #3443
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    Default Re: The outrigger and proa thread

    Quote Originally Posted by phil_mclean View Post
    Lug .. The lee rudder has a tiller which comes forward at a shallow angle from the top of a cassette affixed by pintels to gudgeons on a pair of braces extending out from the starboard side aft of the aft crossbeam (or "kiato" if I understand your impressive vernacular). It passes above the aft crossbeam in the plans. I had a nice piece of aircraft spruce from the broken section of gaff boom from my Norseboat which I expensively rolled in the Delaware River, snapping the mast and the gaff boom. That piece of spruce has a gentle arc, and I've used it for the tiller; it scribes a gentle arc over the aft crossbeam, and it is quite pretty there. A tiller running below the aft crossbeam would strike the starboard hull with only about 10 degrees deflection during a turn to starboard, so I don't think that is a viable method to facilitate a rigid traveller.


    Now it becomes more clear to me about what is going on. Although it has been pretty obvious that transposition of a conventional sloop rig on Gary’s va’a motu is the main thing.

    Going with mains’l and sheeting system as per the plans is also understandably a problem when it comes to sailmaking.

    Recently I have come to understand why contemporary “junk rig” people choose to sew their own sails.
    Camber cut and sewn panels are apparently the way to go now and regular sailmakers are not yet up to speed on these developments.
    Staying with the multi part sheet system ( as on the plans) does away with the need for a mainsheet track to help vertical control of the boom, but you think a vang is up to this anyway. So why not just lead the sheet along the boom to the mast and then conveniently to hand from there (through blocks wherever direction changes). Having said that…. a vang will probably interfere with straightforward approach to the sheet lead, so a track still looks like a viable option.
    It seems that the position of the quarter rudder imitates a ‘stuurboard’, and this should have more effect on turning to port (where the angle of the cassette stops against the hull in the same way that the tiller would do on the other side.
    Given that there is the cross boom exactly where you want a sheet track, the changed tiller attachment is no more than a niggle.
    Besides a trimaran, with an aka structure in the same place as an outrigger ama connecting structure, there is no craft with such a convenient set-up for a mainsheet track that does away with need for a vang.
    Sure, there are numerous options, including the one on the plans, which on the face of it poses the least problem besides sail cut.

    I deviated from Gary Dierking's plans by ordering a more traditional main with full length battens, and not using the modified junk rig he designed. My sailmaker didn't think he could design a sail to take advantage of the rigging system, and so we are following a more traditional path. This choice also makes the back of the boat fully clean for a mizzen if it were desired. The bulkhead at the aft end of the cockpit would be the natural spot to create partners.

    Spent my Father's Day making and epoxying G10 mounting pads onto the old NB mast which will serve as the boom for my boat. I wanted to avoid holes in the carbon fiber, so these are more than 2 mounting screw diameters thick, curved on the bottom to fit the boom and then afixed with an epoxy/silica mixture, then covered with a couple layers of glass. I don't have any CF, so I just filled the top weave with some graphite powder so it looks high tech and blends in. The pads hold an outhaul system like that on a modern laser rig, but with two fairleads aft and one where the vang will attach beneath. I will use some dyneema lashings also run through these fairleads to hang blocks below the boom for the mainsheet and vang. I went ahead and dropped the screws through the fairleads into their tapped holes while the layup was wet, so that job is now securely done.

    Phil,Now it becomes more clear to me about what is going on. Although it has been pretty obvious that transposition of a conventional sloop rig on Gary’s va’a motu is the main thing.

    Going with mains’l and sheeting system as per the plans is also understandably a problem when it comes to sailmaking.

    Recently I have come to understand why contemporary “junk rig” people choose to sew their own sails.
    Camber cut and sewn panels are apparently the way to go now and regular sailmakers are not yet up to speed on these developments.
    Staying with the multi part sheet system ( as on the plans) does away with the need for a mainsheet track to help vertical control of the boom, but you think a vang is up to this anyway. So why not just lead the sheet along the boom to the mast and then conveniently to hand from there (through blocks wherever direction changes). Having said that…. a vang will probably interfere with straightforward approach to the sheet lead, so a track still looks like a viable option.
    It seems that the position of the quarter rudder imitates a ‘stuurboard’, and this should have more effect on turning to port (where the angle of the cassette stops against the hull in the same way that the tiller would do on the other side.
    Given that there is the cross boom exactly where you want a sheet track, the changed tiller attachment is no more than a niggle.
    Besides a trimaran, with an aka structure in the same place as an outrigger ama connecting structure, there is no craft with such a convenient set-up for a mainsheet track that does away with need for a vang.
    Sure, there are numerous options, including the one on the plans, which on the face of it poses the least problem besides sail cut.

  14. #3444

    Default Re: The outrigger and proa thread

    Question about aka strength: I'm making some modifications to my Triak with a new aka and amas. I intend on a single wide aka (20cm wide), 2.5m beam, and each ama will have about 70kg flotation. I was thinking of making the aka from two clear spruce 1x4s tapered down toward the amas to keep the weight down. So I mocked it up and stood of the end to see if it would break with my 75 kg of weight. It deflected quite a bit but didn't break (don't you just love how forgiving wood is). I could reinforce it with fiberglass or go to a bigger piece of wood. But I am just wondering if a couple 1x4s is sufficient? Any thoughts? Robert

    By the way Thom Davis increased the flotation of his Triak amas and everything seems to be holding together fine. see http://smalltrimarans.com/blog/

  15. #3445
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    Default Re: The outrigger and proa thread

    Your empirical method is probably as good as trying to do calculations, though they are not too hard. Deflection is more likely to be an issue rather than breaking. The tapering is not just about saving weight but ensures that the whole of the beam is taking load and bending along its whole length. If you have a parallel beam all load and bending is localised where it is attached to the hull putting a lot of stress on this area. Think about how old fashion car / lorry leaf springs are constructed and you get the idea.

    There is no loa on the centre line of the beam so any construction close to an I beam - tapered will be the lightest / stiffest solution

  16. #3446

    Default Re: The outrigger and proa thread

    Thanks for the feedback. I hadn't considered how the tapering spreads the load. I know that Dierking is a fan of lashing the aka to the ama to create some give at the attachment point to deal with dynamic loading but I think his amas are really stiff. The deflection of a wood ama presumably provides some give. I bounced on the end of the mocked-up ama to see how it handled a dynamic load, and it was bouncy. I will reinforce the ama with fiberglass at the attachment points to the vaka and ama. And I thought about reinforcing with fiberglass over the entire length of the ama but I presume it is much more rigid than the wood and might not be a good match. What I would really like is laminating with something less rigid than the wood. Robert

  17. #3447
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    Default



    This is the textbook section of a bending beam, it can be seen on face is in tension and one face in compression. In the middle is the neutral axis which is not stressed. The two faces have the maximum stress and this is the reason sandwich construction can have very thin outer faces of carbon and a relatively weak foam core. It is the same reason the I beam works.

    If you add glass fibre to your beam provided the bond between it and the wood you will stiffen the beam. Ideally you should have one layer the whole length, two layers for two thirds and three layers for the final third nearest the vaka. This could be done rather than tapering the wood, this is exactly what you do when you build a dagger board. If you design it all around a standard width of glass tape you could do this relatively simply and economically.

    The other factor is that the stiffness of the beam increases as the cube of the thickness so a small increase in thickness has a big impact on stiffness.

    Hope that all makes sense.

    All that said this only considering simple up and down bending of the beam and in truth the beam is subject to more complex loads.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  18. #3448
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    Default Commercial Proa from Poland

    Has anybody else noticed this: http://www.pjoa.eu/

    Janusz Ostrowski (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhIk5kg0SrU) and Reto Brehm (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDJcSwRWAQI&t=10s) seem to be the alpha males of European Proa building - and Janusz seems to be behind the commercial effort.

  19. #3449
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    Default Re: Commercial Proa from Poland

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteCress View Post
    Has anybody else noticed this: http://www.pjoa.eu/

    Janusz Ostrowski (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhIk5kg0SrU) and Reto Brehm (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDJcSwRWAQI&t=10s) seem to be the alpha males of European Proa building - and Janusz seems to be behind the commercial effort.
    nope, I haven't seen this youtube clip of Janusz, but know about Pjoa aand pretty much understand what it is all about(at u guess based on knowledge of the guys and their craft).
    Good luck to Janusz if he has the idea of turning a buck out of small pros.......having spent a fair bit of time on small proas myself, although, maybe not as much money as Janusz, I wish there would have been more interest in that kind of sailing.

    Me not being the "alpha male' around these parts might have something to do with proa's lack of popularity and value, but it might also be that the alpha males around here are the foiling catamaran guys.

    Red Bull is not ever likely to be looking for an opportunity to promote small shunting pros in the same way they do catamarans.

  20. #3450
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    Default Re: Commercial Proa from Poland

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteCress View Post
    Has anybody else noticed this: http://www.pjoa.eu/

    Janusz Ostrowski (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhIk5kg0SrU) and Reto Brehm (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDJcSwRWAQI&t=10s) seem to be the alpha males of European Proa building - and Janusz seems to be behind the commercial effort.
    --- The Polish proa group is amazing, and others from Europe have been starting to get into the proas. Janusz was a member of the Yahoo proa forum since the early 2000s. (I think I got on in 2001 and he was either already there or there not long after). He started right off with a well-designed expression of a Micronesian proa in plywood (canting crabclaw, asymmetric hull, and flexibly riding ama included). It is has been great watching where he took this all these years. His comrades in Poland have also built some fine proas. -- Wade

  21. #3451
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    Default Re: Commercial Proa from Poland

    Quote Originally Posted by wtarzia View Post
    Janusz was a member of the Yahoo proa forum since the early 2000s. (I think I got on in 2001 and he was either already there or there not long after). He started right off with a well-designed expression of a Micronesian proa in plywood (canting crabclaw, asymmetric hull, and flexibly riding ama included). It is has been great watching where he took this all these years. His comrades in Poland have also built some fine proas. -- Wade
    To me, Janusz's Mata Pjoa stands out for authenticity and good looks.

    OTOH, when you see a couple-two-three guys getting Mata Pjoa from the waterline to higher up on the beach, you realize that it's quite heavy.

    OTOOH, anything Reto's Liliuokalani may seem to lack in style, it appears to more than make up for in light weight, simplicity, and sophistication of the overall rig..... I'm not sure how much wind Laguna can handle, but Reto's been out in some pretty serious stuff in Lili.

    Pjoa Laguna looks like a compromise: authentic-looking hull shape, Marshallese ama suspension, but not too heavy at about 250#.

    I've been sniffing around shipping services trying to get a price on shipping one from Poland to Philly... hopefully I'll come to my senses sometime in the next few weeks - but right now I want one.
    Last edited by PeteCress; 07-02-2017 at 09:37 AM.

  22. #3452
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    Default Re: Commercial Proa from Poland

    Hey there outriggers and proanauts,

    I just got back from an awesome weekend camping and sailing my Dierking Wa'apa on the Russian River. Here's a video of the mighty Malolo charging upstream on a light breeze.

    https://youtu.be/8iSXwLgV6yw

  23. #3453
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    Default Re: Commercial Proa from Poland

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteCress View Post
    To me, Janusz's Mata Pjoa stands out for authenticity and good looks.

    OTOH, when you see a couple-two-three guys getting Mata Pjoa from the waterline to higher up on the beach, you realize that it's quite heavy.

    OTOOH, anything Reto's Liliuokalani may seem to lack in style, it appears to more than make up for in light weight, simplicity, and sophistication of the overall rig..... I'm not sure how much wind Laguna can handle, but Reto's been out in some pretty serious stuff in Lili.

    Pjoa Laguna looks like a compromise: authentic-looking hull shape, Marshallese ama suspension, but not too heavy at about 250#.

    I've been sniffing around shipping services trying to get a price on shipping one from Poland to Philly... hopefully I'll come to my senses sometime in the next few weeks - but right now I want one.
    Just realized this Proa thread, thanks to one of Polish proanauts
    Want to thank for kind words in posts above.

    Mata Pjoa weights empty c.a. 220kg = 485 lbs, made of plywood, hulls covered with glass/epoxy. When full of supplies and camping gear he can be not that easy to pull high on a beach.
    Pjoa Laguna weights empty 95kg = 210 lbs, made of ABS, wood and some aluminium, because we wanted to get down with price and have high quality finish. The concept itself allows to use plywood instead of ABS.
    In regards to weight handling please look on fb (hope link works) https://www.facebook.com/37318173285...9242396913941/

    Lili'Uokalani is redesigned by Reto a P5 proa by Othmar Karshulin. Reto has modified a lot so Lili is extremely light so Reto can load her all on car-roof himself: https://youtu.be/5blQRCrwaZo
    Hi also fitted the rig with very sophisticated regulations.

    Pawel has been sailing this April on Pjoa Laguna in regular force 5B with some stronger squalls as a demo and check of qualities, although those are not target conditions I've got on my mind when designing her
    Waiting for more movies to come from the the rough water, but meantime 2-5B sailing on a lake can be seen here: https://youtu.be/MTNaItx32kg and here: https://youtu.be/tttjKw1gQU0
    Interesting to note is hardly any use of steering paddle
    Last edited by Janusz; 08-11-2017 at 08:27 AM.

  24. #3454
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    Default Re: Commercial Proa from Poland

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteCress View Post
    I've been sniffing around shipping services trying to get a price on shipping one from Poland to Philly... hopefully I'll come to my senses sometime in the next few weeks - but right now I want one.
    Im very interested in this boat too, hopefully some will make it to the USA. Any rough idea what it will cost to get one over
    here?

  25. #3455
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    Default Re: Commercial Proa from Poland

    Quote Originally Posted by trent hink View Post
    Any rough idea what it will cost to get one over
    here?
    No clue.

    I emailed a half-dozen outfits that represented themselves as doing that sort of stuff, but it just unleashed a torrent of generic solicitations from household-goods shipping agents.

    I'm guessing that such web pages are more lead-collection devices than legitimate portals into a specific shipping company.

    Just free-associating, I'm thinking maybe somewhere there is a Wiki or something where people can get together to share a shipping container between origin A and destination B.

  26. #3456
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    Aug 2017
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    Warsaw, Poland
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    Default Re: Commercial Proa from Poland

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteCress View Post
    No clue.

    I emailed a half-dozen outfits that represented themselves as doing that sort of stuff, but it just unleashed a torrent of generic solicitations from household-goods shipping agents.

    I'm guessing that such web pages are more lead-collection devices than legitimate portals into a specific shipping company.

    Just free-associating, I'm thinking maybe somewhere there is a Wiki or something where people can get together to share a shipping container between origin A and destination B.
    We have checked some possibilities and have received from transportation company two options to send to Philadelphia.
    - freight of just 2 boxes with boats is together $2695,-
    - freight for 40' container with 10 boats is $2790,-
    Looks like sending more then 2 boats makes a difference.
    Hope it helps.

  27. #3457
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    Dec 2011
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    Default Re: The outrigger and proa thread

    I have built a glass version of Malibu Outrigger, using cast off Hobie hulls, per plans mostly.

    I have put up mahogany hike boards, and used hook and loop to keep from sliding, but have to lash in place. Any special way to lash?

    There is to be under-trampoline beneath boards, for safety and footing...

    Pic would give idea but "quota" seems ever elusive.

    Am using double 1/8th Amsteel line to lash, as had on hand.
    Last edited by BobBill; 08-22-2017 at 11:52 AM.

  28. #3458
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    Default Re: The outrigger and proa thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BobBill View Post
    Pic would give idea but "quota" seems ever elusive.
    • https://photos.google.com/
    • Create a freebie account
    • Upload photos
    • Post links
    • And, if the huge links put you off: javascript:void(location.href='http://tinyurl.com/create.php?url='+encodeURIComponent(location.href) )

  29. #3459
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    Dec 2011
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    Default Re: The outrigger and proa thread

    Peter, Did not mean to be enigmatic, twas the message wording...confused me...

    Kept getting messages from site I exceeded allowed quota to post, like maybe 5 times, and then realized I needed deposit place reference...screw that. If you want do see the rig it is here: https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/o...-boards.58989/ post 13. The hook/loop does it, but need to figure way to knot the lashing to keep tight.

    I know the rig is glass...but

  30. #3460
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    Aug 2011
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    Default Re: The outrigger and proa thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BobBill View Post
    ... need to figure way to knot the lashing to keep tight.
    Go to a tire shop that does a lot of truck work and get a couple of truck inner tubes.

    From one tube, cut out rectangular patches and bond them to the bottom of the polas.

    From the other tube, cut 1" strips out of the tubes and use them for lashing.

    These will be loooooong strips, and when you apply them with a bit of stretch it's like welding the two parts together.

    The lashings will last at least one season in the sun - and I think I was getting two seasons out of the ones I used on my outrigger canoe.

    And if you have access to, say, a half-dozen or so broken windsurfer masts; they make nice light polas when lashed together.

    Have you weighed the boat in ready-to-sail mode?

  31. #3461
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    Dec 2011
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    SE MN
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    Default Re: The outrigger and proa thread

    Peter, Thanks. Very good.I use surfer 500cm sections for spars. I add ferrule and add to light T6 tube ends. Sail is hook and loop attached to spars at luff and along boom. Hold well; easier than sleeves in breeze, but still pain to do each time.

    In pic of rig from side with spars up from above link, all spars in yellow are 100% carbon, the T6 is bare, with ordinary spray clear coat sealer, which seems to do job.

    I had to add stays due to weak Hobie 18 hull, which did not know of until into job...so far so good.

    I have the rubber but for lashing the planks, hoped the Amsteel would prove more durable. Might give it a go on one end to see how tension holds and durability.

    Right now my concern is to keep tension on the lashings. Got to be better way, save knots...work in progress, I suppose.

    Weight is around 400 lbs. Can lift aft end on trailer with some effort. The SS goose neck weighs more than both spars and the mahogany is heavy. May replace starboard hull with foam hull next season. Reduce OAW by 50 lbs, I get up courage to mess with foam sheets, etc. Worked up plan already.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by BobBill; 08-24-2017 at 06:33 AM.

  32. #3462
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    Feb 2009
    Location
    Media, PA
    Posts
    58

    Default Re: The outrigger and proa thread

    Sort of on topic...

    I made seats for my Va'a motu build using insulation foam panels. The seats rest inboard on the gunnel, and outboard 30" away on an aluminum pipe which is raised up a few inches above the level of the gunnels. I had made four seats with oak, and then gasped in horror at the weight.

    Resigning myself to "two steps forward, one step back" I got 4x8 panels of pink foam, which seem to be the ones available now. There used to be 2x8 panels, but neither big box had them, even on their internet sites. The new ones also have pre cut lines at usual dimensions, something to be aware of when reinforcing or using for builds.

    Deciding that the top would be well served with plywood, I found some 5mm underlayment ply for $13 per sheet, and made panels which fit within the margins of the foam which was cut to size and edges rounded. The edges of the ply were sanded to a sharp edge. The ply was glued down (vacuum storage bag & epoxy). Three layers FG on the sides & the bottom, one on top over the ply.

    Three of these weigh about as much as one of the wooden ones. My son tested the first one by jumping as hard as he could, stamping his feet down. No flex noted. Wow!

  33. #3463
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    Default Re: The outrigger and proa thread

    Phil, would love to see pics, if any and PM'd or emailed. I was going to put up a foam outrigger this season, but backed off...next season early am thinking, using pink stuff, epoxy-laminated and shaped...with attachments epoxied in. Might be best anyway, with the boards...they are heavy. Thanks.
    Last edited by BobBill; 08-31-2017 at 01:15 PM. Reason: added thought

  34. #3464
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    Feb 2009
    Location
    Media, PA
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    58

    Default Re: The outrigger and proa thread

    Not sure how to post pics, but here's a pic in my google drive before I laid FG on top. The cutout is for the forward crossbeam brace that is on top of the gunnel.

  35. #3465
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    Feb 2007
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    1,947

    Default Re: The outrigger and proa thread

    Quote Originally Posted by phil_mclean View Post
    ...Three of these weigh about as much as one of the wooden ones. My son tested the first one by jumping as hard as he could, stamping his feet down. No flex noted. Wow!
    --- Phil, nice idea for seats. What weight glass cloth did you use? --Wade

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