The outrigger and proa thread

[Gary Dierking]

Posting this just 'cause it's kinda proa related. This evening, I sketched this proa from a pic I nicked off the internet somewhere. More than likely, Flickr. Not my best, but I haven't drawn anything in a while. Just figured I'd share with the class.

Trevor

Very nice. I've been waiting for some outrigger art from you having seen some of your other work. Keep it up.

[Gary Dierking]

Consider that four wraps of 3/16" polyester braid fails at about 3000 lbs. Two wraps would probably hold everything together in the worst event but would probably stretch more than I like. How much of the rest of your canoe could handle 3000 lbs of load?

[wtarzia]

Trevor, that's great! Didn't know you were an artist. -- Wade

[trefor]

Thanks Gary and Wade! I appreciate the compliments. I plan to do a few more of these. Trevor

[Petewp]

Posting this just 'cause it's kinda proa related. This evening, I sketched this proa from a pic I nicked off the internet somewhere. More than likely, Flickr. Not my best, but I haven't drawn anything in a while. Just figured I'd share with the class.

Trevor

Trevor,

That's a seriously good piece. The subtelties make the piece too - the water, the light on the sail and the very natural pose of the sailor. Not overworked and an solid honest piece. Bravo!

Pete

[Petewp]

Well,

The tropical storm is on the heels of LI Sound - Wade I say its time tomorrow morning we head out to New Haven Harbor and try out our reefing techniques.

Pete

[trefor]

Trevor,

That's a seriously good piece. The subtelties make the piece too - the water, the light on the sail and the very natural pose of the sailor. Not overworked and an solid honest piece. Bravo!

Pete

thanks pete!

i'm happy to report that my epoxy and cloth to glass the foam ama of my wa'apa will arrive wednesday. i'm pretty excited about it. i've got the main hull glassed and painted, as well as the steering oar, iakos and leeboard. originally i was going to paint everything a bright orange, but i caved and used leftover almond and white from the previous sailing pram project. all topsides and stems are almond, the rest is white. it's pretty workboat finish, you can definitely see my crap job of fiber glassing. but i'm not real concerned about it. just happy to be back at it again with a possible splash before fall rolls in.





trev

[trefor]

hope all you guys in new england are safe and sound. same goes for your boats.

trev

[wtarzia]

...The tropical storm is on the heels of LI Sound - Wade I say its time tomorrow morning we head out to New Haven Harbor and try out our reefing techniques. ...

--- It would have been a good training, but as in flying, the landing might have been rough. I hope all you East Coasters came through OK. I am without power (though 3 miles away at school, we have power), but my yard looked as though just a bad thunderstorm had passed through. Even the palstic lawn chair I had forgotten about was in its same position. Basement flooded, but all torrential rain storm do that to me, but this time I cannot wet-vac it all out. Flooding can't go over an inch any way -- it drains out through my garage over that, luckily. Empty a bottle of bleach in it and wait... -- Wade

[trefor]

Kind of nice to see a Marshall Islands proa in the "Launchings" section of the October 2011 WoodenBoat issue, pg. 93.

-Trev

[peterchech]

dam I never get woodenboat in the stores by me early enough...

[trefor]

it's just a small blurb. but better than the usual none.

trev

[Shinchan]

Aloha, quick question: what would be the stongest method to put together a hard-chined outrigger hull of 1/4' ply, using the stringer screw and glue method (like Gary D's Tamanu/Waapa build) or stitch and glue with epoxy/fiberglass? I'm just looking to build something durable that me or my kids can't destroy(easily) since I'm a newb sailor.....

[Dan St Gean]

Aloha, quick question: what would be the stongest method to put together a hard-chined outrigger hull of 1/4' ply, using the stringer screw and glue method (like Gary D's Tamanu/Waapa build) or stitch and glue with epoxy/fiberglass? I'm just looking to build something durable that me or my kids can't destroy(easily) since I'm a newb sailor.....

Properly constructed, they should be similarly strong. However, the chine logs do make for a quick and fair hull in less time at potentially a slightly heavier weight. Glassing the bottom over the chine is one other way to get some additional strength. I've thought of building a lightweight Tamanu hull stitch and glue style since I have a set of bulkheads already built. As for strength, 6mm bottom is plenty.

Dan

[wtarzia]

ANNOUNCING THE TEXAS PROA CHAMPIONSHIP! The only (so far as I know -- the world IS pretty big) proa championship in the western hemisphere. Please go to this link for more information: http://wikiproa.pbworks.com/w/page/1...0Championships -- Wade

[JimD]

My latest iteration uses both my kayaks. The vaka will be a beamy 15 foot reworked Tursiops, and the ama will be a narrow 17 foot greenland style kayak hull, ballasted to whatever degree is required for stability. I'm hoping a 50# sandbag will do it. Likely it will be an 8 foot beam so I can leave it assembled. I have a couple designs for smaller amas under construction, almost built, but they will wait for a tri configuration.

[Wavewacker]

Why are the proas lashed on instead of bolted? Are they to have some flex at the attachment instead of being fixed?

[JimD]

Why are the proas lashed on instead of bolted? Are they to have some flex at the attachment instead of being fixed?

A little flexing is a big part of it. And its traditional as well. Even the big fiberglass outriggers in Hawaii are lashed.

[trefor]

Happy to report that my Wa'apa has gone fully 3d. I glued the struts into the ama yesterday afternoon. There's still quite a bit to do, but I may actually get to paddle or sail this sucker around a bit before it gets too cold.





Trevor

[JimD]

Nice to see, Trevor. Looks awesome.

[wtarzia]

Why are the proas lashed on instead of bolted? Are they to have some flex at the attachment instead of being fixed?

--- What JimD said. Bolts are stress concentrators. Well, to put it another way, all attachments points concentrate stress, but (1) lashings spread the stress out over time, ie, the flex (even if that is measured over only a second or so), and (2) lashings spread stress out over space as well, since the amount of surface area touched by lashings is larger that the bolt shaft and washer. For people who assemble their outriggers, sometimes (often?) a well-thought-out lashing scheme using cleats is faster than bolting-up (A speed exception might be for systems that use captured nuts, such as T-nuts, wherein you need only drive a bolt into it. That still might be relatively slow unless you use a battery-powered wrench. Also, you need to keep an eye on bolts since little jiggles can work them free. Really, lashing is one of the good things about outriggers that is not immediately evident). -- Wade

[wtarzia]

Trevor, almost ready for its baptism! -- Wade

[trefor]

Yes, almost ready to take her first swim! I've certainly taken long enough to get this far. Had a few roadblocks to completion over the summer, but things seem to be evening out now. Hope it stays that way for a bit, I'm tired of the added stress.

Is Duckworks the cheapest place online to get rigging items? Things like blocks, line, etc? I think I need one 1/4" block for the outhaul and another for the brailing line and three 3/8" for the mainsheet. Unless someone tells me different.

I've got plenty of time to get those. I don't know that I'll end up sailing the boat until March or April, when things warm back up again. Not sure how long it's going to take me to get the boat registered after the sailing bits are completed. I hope to have it painted in the next week or so. The first trip to the water will likely be to just paddle it around and see if I have the lashings tied correctly.

My focus in November will shift to building a couple of skin-on-frame kayaks with a friend of mine. Can't have too many boats, right?

Trevor

[wtarzia]

Trefor, Duckworks prices are not bad, but factor into them the shipping cost. I order some stuff from Jamestown Distributors, whose prices are a bit higher, but they work quickly (if you need that) and have proven themselves quite professional as when they corrected an order error for me and saved me a few bucks.

As for "how can you have too many boats?" issue -- I don't know any more! I am wondering if we can get more out of your life style by having one superb boat that fits most of what we do, and focusing our time on that one. I sometimes think having a one boat for afternoon quickies (such as a light sailing monohul canoe) and one for full days and cruising (such as a ~20 foot multihull on a trailer) covers most of what would be needed. But then, a boat on a roof vs. a fairly light boat on a trailer are not as different as they might seem, time-wise, unless launching location dictates boat type (for example, when you could sneak a light sailing canoe down some muddy launch areas or twisty-turny access routes.)-- Wade

[PeteCress]

This is the most idle of curiosity, but I can't help wondering.

"Boomless Lateen Sail" as in 1:18 of http://tinyurl.com/6127ej6.

Seems attractive from a simplicity standpoint: one less hard part flying around for one thing, less weight for another.

But over hundreds (thousands?) of years of Pacific Proa evolution they seem to have been discarded and I'm guessing there is a good reason.

Anybody tried one on as a shunting rig?

[PeteCress]

A little flexing is a big part of it. And its traditional as well. Even the big fiberglass outriggers in Hawaii are lashed.

If the issue of speed in putting things together is an issue, it looks like some people use racheting cargo straps instead of lashing.

At about :42 they can be seen: http://tinyurl.com/6h55zow

[peterchech]

Looking good trev! As one serial boat builder to another, I suggest u concentrate on finishing the current boat before starting any new projects. Otherwise when u get stuck on something for the outrigger, it will be too easy to lose interest and just stop building out of frustration.

Rw ropes is the best place for high quality line. They have surplus lengths at very good prices. Duckworks sells racelight blocks for $3.50 each, which are also of good quality. But to be honest, I sailed the first monthps on my boat using just home depot rope and blocks. Before I powered up the rig they were fine. Hell, the Polynesians would have taken cheap poly rope over coir any day! And the cheap poly they sell has some similar qualities, in that it sticks to itself just like coir.

Bootless lateen sails are used in Zanzibar, an island off the east coast of africa with Austronesian influence. Look like tackers to me but not sure.

[wtarzia]

...Bootless lateen sails are used in Zanzibar, an island off the east coast of africa with Austronesian influence. Look like tackers to me but not sure.

--- They are tackers. These double-outriggers use "plank amas" canted at an angle. When to leeward they get some hydrodynamic lift when pushed to leeward. The thickness of the planks of course provides some buoyancy, but not much. Very interesting. Tim Anderson built a plywood hull version of one on a beach in Kenya and has a few things to say about that at www.instructables.com in one of his essays. -- Wade

[trefor]

Looking good trev! As one serial boat builder to another, I suggest u concentrate on finishing the current boat before starting any new projects. Otherwise when u get stuck on something for the outrigger, it will be too easy to lose interest and just stop building out of frustration.

Rw ropes is the best place for high quality line. They have surplus lengths at very good prices. Duckworks sells racelight blocks for $3.50 each, which are also of good quality. But to be honest, I sailed the first monthps on my boat using just home depot rope and blocks. Before I powered up the rig they were fine. Hell, the Polynesians would have taken cheap poly rope over coir any day! And the cheap poly they sell has some similar qualities, in that it sticks to itself just like coir.

thanks!

maybe i'll go the cheap route at first, just to be quick about it and see how the initial rigging goes together. it's not like i haven't gone fairly inexpensive on the boat, already.

trev

[PeteCress]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Canoe_Hawaii.jpg

Can anybody identify this canoe.

Call me a wuss, but I'd rather buy than build and that one looks like it might fit my application.

I'm guessing it's about 24' long....maybe a little *too* long... But it looks rightable by one person.

[Gary Dierking]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Canoe_Hawaii.jpg

Can anybody identify this canoe.

Call me a wuss, but I'd rather buy than build and that one looks like it might fit my application.

I'm guessing it's about 24' long....maybe a little *too* long... But it looks rightable by one person.

It looks like one of the models from Kailua Kanu in Hawaii:
http://www.kailuakanu.com/Canoes/canoes.html

[Shinchan]

I asked Jay Dowsett (Kailua Kanu) about the Opae and Opelu canoes back in April and he quoted me $4400 for the Opae and $6600 for the Opelu with ama and set of iakos and lashing lines or quickstraps. He said build time is about 2 weeks.As far as the sailing rigs, you'll have to ask Jay. BTW, the pic is taken outside of Maunalua Bay, Oahu near my house...

[OconeePirate]

I -think- I've been through this entire thread now... lots of fun stuff in here.

I have a copy of Gary's outrigger book and am considering building a Wa'apa. I'm still kind of torn between it and the Michalak Wooboto. Very different boats, but both meet my (current?) criteria. Before my move I'd finally sort of decided on a build, now I'm on the coast rather than a lake so I get to start the whole game over again.

I've got a question on the construction of the Wa'apa that I haven't been able to find a clear answer to yet. When building it in three sections, how fair is the boat between the ends and the center? The book says that the center isn't quite straight but it seems to me that in that case in either the 16' or the 24' configuration there would be some oddness about the joints. Am I missing something?

[Gary Dierking]

I -think- I've been through this entire thread now... lots of fun stuff in here.

I have a copy of Gary's outrigger book and am considering building a Wa'apa. I'm still kind of torn between it and the Michalak Wooboto. Very different boats, but both meet my (current?) criteria. Before my move I'd finally sort of decided on a build, now I'm on the coast rather than a lake so I get to start the whole game over again.

I've got a question on the construction of the Wa'apa that I haven't been able to find a clear answer to yet. When building it in three sections, how fair is the boat between the ends and the center? The book says that the center isn't quite straight but it seems to me that in that case in either the 16' or the 24' configuration there would be some oddness about the joints. Am I missing something?

You're absolutely right. It is impossible to have a perfectly fair rocker curve in both the 2 and 3 part configurations. The 3 part is fair and the 2 part 16'er has a slight ridge. If you only wanted a 16'er, it is possible to alter the frames slightly to have it perfectly fair.
Viewing from the top, however, there is no noticeable discontinuity because the mid body is very close to parallel.

Gary

[peterchech]

Hi oconee welcome to the thread! The rocker profile is barely noticeable and in fact joins up quite well. U read all 30the pages of the thread? Wow! What r u looking for in a boat?

[PeteCress]

Using a rating scheme of 1-10 with #1 being an OC-1 (e.g. www.huki.com/index.php?page=Outrigger_Bargains) and assuming you had to paddle 10 miles on flat water; how would you rate - for ease of paddling:

- T2

- Wa'Apa

- Tamanu

- Ulua

Assume all 3 are de-rigged - mast/booms/sail lashed to akas.

Would the relative ratings differ in 2-3 foot chop?

In-and-out through small surf?

[OconeePirate]

Thank you for the quick answer Gary! Thanks for the welcome Peter! It took me a few days, but yes, I think I've read every page of this thread, lol.

Some of my criteria are serious, some are more fun.

I've read every trailer vs. cartop argument on the forum but right now being able to cartop the boat is necessary. My lease doesn't allow me to store a trailer at the house. I'd like something that can easily take two adults, maybe two and a child, camp cruising or at least for long picnic trips. Something stable enough to fish from, I'm not a serious fisherman but do enjoy drowning worms occasionally. Relative ease of build. I know what my woodworking skills are, I don't want to bite off more than I can chew and wind up taking forever to build the boat, or worse yet ditch it unfinished. In dealing with the local tides and river currents everyone tells me a motor is a necessity, so something that will push with a small motor.

For fun I do want something with character. An outrigger canoe definitely has character.

I wanna be able to cartop it, build it from two sheets of plywood, rig it with a tarp sail and a weedeater motor, then singlehandedly circumnavigate the Milkyway in it!

[Wavewacker]

Speaking of a canoe (sorry to but in, but it's difficult having to keep tri-s in one thread)

I was on an outing a couple years ago and decided we needed to get a canoe. I bought a Dakota, RAM-X 15 1/2 foot canoe at Academy Sporting goods. I do like the material as it is tough, but only used it that one time and it's like new today. To really improve the boat, I would take out the seats and add better framing and replace the plastic gunnels, maybe put a canvas or ply deck on it, sail and try an outrigger set up. OR,

would it really be better to sell the Ram-X boat, buy wood and build a canoe/narrow hulled boat??? Thanks guys!

(This would be a past time sail rig, not my real boat)

[peterchech]

Waapa isn't a great paddler. Tracks well, but takes alot of work to get anywhere imo.

Canoe with outriggers is so much quicker than building from scratch. But u will be stuck to hull speed. For a lake its fine, but for the coast the low fretboard and higher winds favor an actual build I think.

Iconee an outrigger gives u stability, character and speed, and seaworthiness, but takes longer to build and longer to assemble. The assembly time can be worked out. Build time will be significant though. Lots of parts! But the finished product can probably circumnavigate if it had to. At least it could cross the atlantic.... ask the burlesque brothers lol

[JimD]

Speaking of a canoe (sorry to but in, but it's difficult having to keep tri-s in one thread)

I was on an outing a couple years ago and decided we needed to get a canoe. I bought a Dakota, RAM-X 15 1/2 foot canoe at Academy Sporting goods. I do like the material as it is tough, but only used it that one time and it's like new today. To really improve the boat, I would take out the seats and add better framing and replace the plastic gunnels, maybe put a canvas or ply deck on it, sail and try an outrigger set up. OR,

would it really be better to sell the Ram-X boat, buy wood and build a canoe/narrow hulled boat??? Thanks guys!

(This would be a past time sail rig, not my real boat)

If it were me, and I already had a canoe, I would likely just modify it rather than start from scratch. For info and ideas on sailing canoes, with or without outriggers, have a good look at this site. Some great vids: http://www.solwaydory.co.uk/

[Wavewacker]

Thanks, I thought so too, but mine has little rocker to it and might go well with a modest rig and leeboard. It will still be alot of work changing the gunnels, seats and small bulkheads in that skin. The seats (with cup holders) are too high IMO. A spray skirt arrangement might keep it dryer too. Thanks!

[wtarzia]

(This post mostly cut and pasted from an e-mail to one of the Outrigger Pete's I know, because I would have said the same things to you-all).

Had a nice single-outrigger day yesterday which as ever highlighted the joy's and terrors of small single-outriggers. I will post some Youtubes titled "Sept 18, 2011 sailing" today [ the firdt of three is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0LdKAE_B_k ] -- some good stuff going downwind but less exciting to experienced sailors no doubt. The proa tack is always wet and a little exposed sitting up there on the side seat over the water, and thr trimaran tack is less wet, safer, more comfortable, and faster (in my canoe, anyway).

Left New Haven Lighthouse Point, and headed around the corner to the east as the wind was supposed to NE. But the wind shifted a lot around east, and seemed mostly east, so I felt the full effects of the dictum "gentleman do not beat to windward" as I tried to make Branford Harbor. But then I had a two-day weekend scruff and had not the look of one, FYI.

I went to the NOAA site later and looked at the day’s history; it registered wind directions ENE/E/ESE, and some NE. Wind speeds were centering around 6 and 7 and gusts to 16, which made me feel better at my average 4 knot speeds on the up-wind tacking. That is not terribly bad speed in a crude heavy outrigger when making progress to windward in a chop, getting beat-up in some vicious chop (especially bad between East Breakwater and the shore where the water really piles up at low tide; I was amazed that I made it through there because I have in the past tack back and forth and never made it through, so slowed down by vertical-faced waves and tide that I have to wear around to some other exit. I think I found the limit: any wind under 5 knots and I will not have the power to go through).

Free of the constrictions I headed east to Branford (I thought). Pinching up up produced 3 knots, sometimes necesary to clear jetties and such, but after Iopted for a close reach, speed was better, more like 5 and 6 knots. I would tack out (proa tack) about a mile (buoy #36 was my first mark and set the rhythm for the tacks) then tack back (trimaran tack) until the folk on shore were worried I was going to touch their sacred beach, and tack again. These comparalively short tacks let me stay on the more agreeable trimaran tack a little more than the proa tack. And I could measure windward progress that way by noting which house on the beach I could have hit. (Not much! A quarter mile progress each tack, I would guess.

By 3 PM I was still not at Branford and was unusually cold (despite full waterproofs -- dry skin but evaporative cooling) and tired. I poked into a place called Short Beach, which a pretty little cove -- would love to anchor there and sleep some night, some well protected spots -- as always rich folk own every square inch of land, though there was a little lonely beach on an almost-island that looked inviting for stealth-landing/camping). I wandered around there and decided to head back, though Branford was around the corner. Later that day the Small Craft Advisrory was extended westward to envelope the area, so maybe that was a good idea -- in any event I turned around because I was not interested in beating to windward another hour as the day aged.

The downwind run home was faster and sometimes a little hairy: 7 knot runs until I hit the wave in front of me, plummet to 3, back to 7. Fun except for the constant fight with my rudder, which I suddenly found twists its cheek piece so that the angle of the tiller was far greater than the working angle of the rudder. I would have the tiller as far over as it could be forced and the following wave would still be turning me. That was when I leaned out to see the twist in the cheekpiece. You know, I had better luck with my quicky (but annoyingly sloppy) Indonesian style quarter-rudder! Then I lowered my leeboard, slid it all the way aft in its long rails and bearings, which put its trailing edge 20 inches aft of amidships, and that let me control the boat much better. A clunky-looking leeboard system but man I love it.

But I must solve this damned rudder and tiller-linkage problem. I like the idea of cat-ketches though now I like better the idea of cat-yawls (ketch-mizzensail loses too much power upwind from back-winding), so for the forseeable future I will have a mizzen mast. Right now I have a curved tiller and new linkage made (still must get around the mizzen mast), with altered angles, so I hope something will improve. I do NOT know why I didnot notice this problem during the Everglades Challenge; perhaps because the trimaran conversion with those big inflatable amas changed some variable? -- Wade

[Dan St Gean]

Well, your different amas, and tri configuration would have made some changes both in the ama buoyancy and in your propensity to hiking out. I'll warrent you did have some rudder twist issues in the EC as the blade had to work loose somehow.

What's the law in your area as to the public/private ownership of the intertidal zone? if you could find a quiet cove, you could set up aboard for a nice little ovenight. How about something like Jim Brown's deck he put together for the W17?

Thanks for the writeup!

Dan

[wtarzia]

...I'll warrent you did have some rudder twist issues in the EC as the blade had to work loose somehow.

What's the law in your area as to the public/private ownership of the intertidal zone? if you could find a quiet cove, you could set up aboard for a nice little ovenight. How about something like Jim Brown's deck he put together for the W17?...

--- That's true about the twist -- it would have imparted some differential force on the nut that could loosen it up and continue to loosen it. Huh. The CT laws allow beaching in the intertidal zone I think. But I would happy to anchor. I slept aboard once in trying conditions, and to sleep aboard a canoe made for that wouldn't be so bad. Not the W17 deck on my boat, though. I am thinking of a half-deck on the Tamanu (ama side). --Wade

[PeteCress]

... and to sleep aboard a canoe made for that wouldn't be so bad....I am thinking of a half-deck on the Tamanu (ama side)

Grill seems tb sleeping on the ama side of his T2 on a fairly regular basis. ref: GrillabongQuixotic.wordpress.com

He even has a sort of tent that he rigs at night.

My guess is that it depends on body size and a few other characteristics that luckier people than Yours Truly have.

[The Bigfella]

I've posted a few outrigger photos over on my trip thread (sorry, haven't got the link.... damn slow 'net here)

Here's one... a dugout with a couple of planks on top and bamboo outriggers. There's half a dozen shots or more on the other thread.



Took this one on Saturday on Atauro Island (Timor-Leste)

[upchurchmr]

Wtarzia

I enjoyed the Video you posted above. Is there somewhere I can see a discription of Short Dragon? You have posted a lot about it but I don't have a clear understanding of the geometry and the reasons for your design.

Thanks,
Marc

[wtarzia]

...I enjoyed the Video you posted above. Is there somewhere I can see a discription of Short Dragon? You have posted a lot about it but I don't have a clear understanding of the geometry and the reasons for your design. ...

--- I have a page about Short Dragon at www.wtarzia.com, click on the "outrigger" button. I have a full construction description (though sometimes more creative than technical in writing style) at www.instructables.com, search for the article "How to Build a Short Dragon." There is a bunch more videos on Youtube, but after a while they all start looking the same :-) .

The geometry is simple: a symmetrical 16 foot long hull (a little over 3 inches of rocker centered) meant to be a shunting proa but actually used as a tacking outrigger. Sharpie construction (CDX ply, 6 oz glass epoxied outside) to suit my low skills and budget; built too heavy because it organically grew from open-hull experiment to decked-in, compartmented hull for sea worthiness; 14 foot deep-V ama for simplicity (but it is not a bad shape for a shunting proa). Overall beam 7 feet (too narrow) because of my garage storage necessity. Cat-ketch rig to keep forces low and sail expenses cheap (store-bought production sails from the Nutshell and Shellback kit boats that the Wooden Boat store sells). -- Wade

[wtarzia]

Grill seems tb sleeping on the ama side of his T2 on a fairly regular basis. ref: GrillabongQuixotic.wordpress.com ....

--- I've seen that. What an amazing cruise! I prefer sleeping in the main hull. Maybe that is wrong but after waking up anchored off Venice Inlet and watching big rollers passing by my eyeballs, I was sold on the concept of staying inside the hull. I had 16 inche clearance amidships between the ribs, and about 17 inches at my shooulders -- a little cramped but it was snug. The 6 inch topsides over the sleep-deck were a bit too low for comfort, so I slept on my back (I prefer my side) given that the water began right outside the gunwales.

A deeper sleep deck would be preferred, but probably not possible on a Tamanu or most skinny outriggers (I think I can go deeper than 6 inches, though). But what I would like is more width to set up a dodger-tent on hoops (easy fold up/down), sort of what Steve Isaac and Matt Layden designed on the Tridarka Raider trimaran. With a side deck on the ama side, there is room for sitting on the proa-tack, and width for a minimal roofed area (the tent) and a platform to put things when setting up and taking down. I am thinking, ~ 18 inches of side-deck along the cockpit on the ama side, with some provision in the aft cockpit to move out further if extreme hiking is called for (or a desperate final leap for the ama in a capsize situation).

One of the un-thought-about problems during my one night in the EC was where to put things on a 22 inch hull as I delved into the center compartment for stuff. It was a horror story -- I had to sit on things to keep them from going in the water, etc. A side deck for sitting (with a lip some inches high) would have been just the thing. I did not use a net because I wanted the hull sides clear for paddling (and I ended up having to do a lot of that). A Tamanu might be just wide enough for a pair of short oars -- who knows? I will find out. --Wade

[PeteCress]

I'm not an innovator in this field. I do what Gary does, but with a 24' Ulua. This works for me with my light ama. When I'm toting my larger ama, it rides alongside the vaka and gets quickly lashed with light tie down straps. I use the Marquesan quick connect boards that are spec'd on the wa'apa's ama. This is fast, like 10 minutes fast.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/outrigg...in/set-185726/

David

Great series of pix!

Two Questions:

- Do you experience any issues with stability at turnpike speeds? I'm thinking tipping with
the narrow wheelbase and higher COG.

- How did the weight come out with the longer build?