Small Outboard - best option?

[Lion]

Hooray at last - Jude has suggested that to get more use out of our Adrian Dean designed and built 14.5ft x 5ft huon sailing dinghy, we invest in a small outboard.

Boat probably weighs about 200kg + kit and normally 2 but up to 4 adults for a max of, say, 500- 550kgs. Developed from a rowing fishing dinghy so very clean lines. We did have a David Payne Putt Putt with a Blaxland- Chapman Super Pup of a claimed 3.5hp, probably heavier and she pushed along at hull speed. Liked the slow 600-900 rpm rhythm but no way are we going for an inboard.

Prefer 4 stroke. The Honda 2.3hp comes to mind but maybe a bit short of grunt, light @ 12 kg but air-cooled and anticipate a bit noisy. Like the look of the Suzuki 2.5hp, water cooled @ 13kg, slightly lower geared but more complicated. Tohatsu maybe also worth a look, larger cc, heavier @ 17.5kg but do go up to 3.5hp with higher revs.

Brains trust - advice and comments please!

Lion

[Jeff Benagh]

FWIW I've used a 6HP 2003 Nissan (Tohatsu) as primary power in my Cape Dory 25 sailboat for the past 3 years. I have been very pleased with it.

Jeff

[KMacDonald]

I use a Honda 2 HP 4 stroke on a Joel White Marsh Cat (1300lb displacement). It is plenty of power. Runs 2.5 hours at half throttle on a quart of gas. I chose it for its light weight and glad I did.

[John P Lebens]

OUr 2 hp Honda is simple, light and was pretty cheap. However it is noisy because there is no water jacket for cooling. We are looking at an electric. Practical Sailor is apparently doing a review of electrics in the January issue. "Electric Paddle" is an intriguing possibility because it is so much less money than a Torqeedo.

[Thad Van Gilder]

Either the baby Honda or the baby 4 stroke Yamaha But...

The British Seagull is better yet!!!!

[John Turpin]

I've owned the Honda 2 and have the Suzuki 2.5 now. Both are fine motors with good reputations. The Suzuki weighs about 2 pounds more, but it is much much quieter.

[Boatsmith]

The advantage of the Seagull is that you can overhaul it simply. The disadvantage is that it needs it frequently. I would go with the Honda or Yamaha.

[Lion]

Thanks for responses. Have looked electric options but Torqeedo pretty pricing for range and occasional use. Most reviews also comment on a quite annoying whine. Other electric options heavy not well resolved IMO. Will look at the 'Electric Paddle' but assume it involved hull penetration which I want to avoid. Also note comment re 2hp+ being adequate and air-cooled Honda being a bit noisy.

Aaaah - the sweet smell of a Castrol R blended Seagull 2 stoke plugging its way intermittently along the waterways of the world in a plume of smoke. I'm a romantic, but not that romantic!

Better start comparing prices before some one changes their mind.

Lion.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Most of the small outboards are made in China now. With reasonable care, they will last a good long time. I don't have any outboards newer than about 1970, but my little 2 hp Evinrude mate, (the newest outboard) is a wonderful little motor... 2 stroke of course.

[Dale Genther]

Our Honda 2 HP is now ten years old. Great little motor. The only issue with it was once the idle jet clogged up with gunk because I let it sit too long without starting it. I.E. My fault. Now I drain it over the winter and start it at least once a month the rest of the year. Now no no problems.

[mcdenny]

The electric paddle is a tiny little outboard with a NiMH battery in a separate bag. Looks pretty slick, could be a great solution if it has enough power/range for you. http://electricpaddle.com/

[andrewe]

Hi John,
A friend just bought a Torqueedo, not too impressed on the range and it does whine. Hi revving motor with epicyclic reduction. I use an old 3.5 2T Yam on the Whilly Tern, happy at 1/2 throttle (or less) at hull speed.
Tohatsu are good, a 3.5 4T should cope with a bit of wind and chop. And gets F-N gearbox, quite handy.

And if you relapse into romance, and happen past here again, there is a mint Seagull 40+ in the garage. I might even find some Castrol R.

Best to Jude

Andrew

[Lion]

Hi Andrew,

What a delight to hear from you and thanks for your comments - I will keep the offer of the Seagull in mind!

We are trying to figure out how we can find funds and time to visit again.

All the best for Christmas and New Year.

Lion

[sailboy3]

http://www.defender.com/category.jsp...0904&id=530905

[John P Lebens]

This is one of the first reports I have seen from an - actual owner - of a Torqeedo. Thanks.

In theory, the little electrics are very appealing but everybody seems to be worried about cost, reliability, batteries dying and getting stranded. When I think about my extended cruises in our dingy, I never go more than an hour or so. If I were likely to do some longer stints, I would buy a spare battery. The little Torqeedos are not cheap and it is hard to justify them based on saved gasoline. Still, the tiny gas motors tend to get their carburetors gummed up and can require pro service to get hem unstuck. There is also the hassle of schlepping gasoline and keeping lubricants around for annual service. The little gas motors are known to last for many years and I wonder if the Torqeedo would have the same service life. If they do fail, there are probably expensive to repair.

The real magnet for me is the simplicity, light weight and quiet.

[Lew Barrett]

Things will change in respect to your dinghy use if you decide to go north John. Then you will need to find a way to charge on the hook. Not a problem of course. You can buy a Honda 2K charger inverter, which will run on gas. With it, you can charge the Torqeedo. You will only need to run the generator 4 or 5 hours a day, and they are hardly noisier than the 2HP Honda outboard!

[Lion]

Hi Team,

Thanks for the informed response and the real world experience of the electric option.

Torqeedo has a lot of appeal and if I ignore cost, range and if this was just for tender duty, then this could be he way to go.

However at about a third of the price, extend-able range and more grunt for a relatively heavy clinker/lapstrake sailing dinghy that will use the motoring occasions to cruise the backwaters and byways in no hurry, I have pretty well settled on a 4 stroke o/board. So far the Suzuki 2.5hp looks the go. It's water cooled so quieter than the Honda 2.3hp and bigger capacity for the same weight. Have not yet checked out Tohatsu but they are about 6kg heavier.

Still a couple of niggles-
- Shaft length, standard is 15" and while Honda do a 20" as well, Suzuki don't. Either way, Yikla has a high transom and I don't want to cut it away, so am trying to figure out a neat metal or timber bracket that hangs of the transom and lowers the attachment point of the o/board bracket and that you can still pivot for reverse.. Any ideas?
- Is 2.5hp enough? The selling agents say OK for still waters but against running tide and a bit of chop, probably not. Aside from cost, trouble is that weight starts to rise considerably as you step up to the 3.5 - 5hp range. Thoughts?

Lion

[John P Lebens]

Things will change in respect to your dinghy use if you decide to go north John. Then you will need to find a way to charge on the hook. Not a problem of course. You can buy a Honda 2K charger inverter, which will run on gas. With it, you can charge the Torqeedo. You will only need to run the generator 4 or 5 hours a day, and they are hardly noisier than the 2HP Honda outboard!

Lew, You got me there! Maybe in the end the Torqeedo is best for cruising (quietly with some green cachet) the marinas...

[kenjamin]

- Is 2.5hp enough? The selling agents say OK for still waters but against running tide and a bit of chop, probably not. Aside from cost, trouble is that weight starts to rise considerably as you step up to the 3.5 - 5hp range. Thoughts?

Lion

I like my 4HP Yamaha. It is very quiet for an outboard and has plenty of reserve horsepower for my 20' Caledonia Yawl. It's dry weight of 47 lbs. is as heavy as it gets because the fuel weight is carried in it's remote tank – a feature which gives this boat/motor combination an incredible range. I mounted the motor midship in order to handle it there safely and for the overall balance of the boat. Steering with the rudder is nice because there's no vibration and you're further away from the little bit of noise that 4 horse four stroke makes. There's a waterproof port that screws in place with four wing nuts and fairs the hull for sailing or rowing when the motor is hauled...... Yes, contrary to popular belief, you can row a Caledonia Yawl. Now whether you'd want to or not, only the individual can answer that. I kind of like it.

[John P Lebens]

Lew, You got me there! Maybe in the end the Torqeedo is best for cruising (quietly with some green cachet) the marinas...

On second thought, Lew - That little Torqeedo battery would be fully charged during the cruising day. Then in the quiet moorage on the hook, there would be no need to fire up that noisy little four-stroke and spoil the peace and quiet. I can see it now - gliding along those steep, green shores listening to nature all around - not disturbing your neighbors and generally living the good life...

[paul oman]

from past experience, most problems (and demise of the outboards) usually seems to be related to the water cooling system. Bad impeller, clog in the lines, tubing connectors gone bad, etc. Any outboard that best addresses or gets past these issues is probably a good one!

[St.J]

For the sake of clarity, I'm the son potterer refers to above so am privy to the same "tests".
I find my Mariner 10hp 2 stroke less than confidence building but the torqeedo is so responsive and simple that I felt more relaxed than I ever have under power.
We both commented on how close we could get to the birds picking their way across the mudflats at dusk. The "whine" of the motor barely made them glance up.
They are a lot of money, there's no doubt. But for the peace and pleasure to be had from them I'm sold.

[Lew Barrett]

A lot depends on how much you use your rig and how well you know your own use patterns. For me the appearant simplicity of an electrical option would unquestionably be offset by the kind of use I have for a small boat when I am out balanced against and the huge amount of energy stored in a gallon of gas versus the amount that can be stored in a battery. That's the key for me, otherwise I can see the appeal of electricity. Modern outboards are as close to bullet proof as it gets.

[St.J]

A lot depends on how much you use your rig and how well you know your own use patterns.

Absolutely.
I potter about about on the Blackwater using the motor to get on and off the mooring. The charge in one battery would last a month of the kind of use I make of it. I used about 15 litres of petrol last season, almost entirely at weekends so for me its ideal. For someone needing greater range, more power or a cheaper, 2nd hand option it wouldn't be sensible.

[biglad]

I have used 2 outboards on my 11' boat in the Firth of Forth in Scotland. Tidal and a bit of a chop at times. I bought 2 seagulls from eBay as non runners and sorted them both out. Thats the beauty of Seagulls - v.simple and parts are easy to get hold of. Mine are the Forty Plus models from the late 60's. They do the job but they are loud, mixing the fuel and oil was a nuisance, judging when to switch it off so what was left in the carb would get you to the side (otherwise it leaks all over the boat when the outboard is raised), They are classics though and the 'bark' they make is quite distinctive.

I bought a new Yamaha 2.5hp long shaft which is much quieter - you have to shout over it to speak to people, it uses about 900ml of fuel per hour at 3/4 throttle. It also has a forward/neutral - with the seagull as soon as you start it you're off!!

If I were you, budget permitting, I'd buy the Yamaha though maybe the 4hp one - your boats a bit bigger than mine. I'm not sure a Seagull would see you out in the boat more often.

[Hwyl]

Still a couple of niggles-
- Shaft length, standard is 15" and while Honda do a 20" as well, Suzuki don't. Either way, Yikla has a high transom and I don't want to cut it away, so am trying to figure out a neat metal or timber bracket that hangs of the transom and lowers the attachment point of the o/board bracket and that you can still pivot for reverse.. Any ideas?
- Is 2.5hp enough? The selling agents say OK for still waters but against running tide and a bit of chop, probably not. Aside from cost, trouble is that weight starts to rise considerably as you step up to the 3.5 - 5hp range. Thoughts?

Lion

Ugly but they work.

I run a 4 horse on a 22 foot boat and that's what I'd recommend

[gilberj]

I have a Honda 10 (9.9hp) 4 stroke, an older one reputed to be from 1987. Runs well, starts normally 2nd pull. no mixed gas, pretty quiet adequate power for my needs.
In the same class, I have used a Seagull.....I like the simplicity, the ability to fix it myself, and they are pretty reliable. I like the retro look, don't like the noise and don't like the mixed gas.
JG

[JimD]

I've owned the Honda 2 and have the Suzuki 2.5 now. Both are fine motors with good reputations. The Suzuki weighs about 2 pounds more, but it is much much quieter.

Its time to replace our old Honda 5, which I've always found noisy. Quiet is a big selling point for us, but the small Suzuki's all seem to have integral fuel tanks, which we don't want, although the Suzuki 4 and 6 have optional remote tank connections.

[JimD]

I bought a new Yamaha 2.5hp long shaft which is much quieter - you have to shout over it to speak to people...

Is there a word missing here? If you have to shout over a 2.5 motor how is that much quieter? I am looking for quiet above most other considerations.

[JimD]

And speaking of a quiet running small outboard, anyone have experience with Tohatsu? I'm specifically looking at the 6 hp long shaft saildrive. It has all the features we want, those being remote fuel tank, remote throttle and transmission control, big sailboat prop, and a 5 amp battery charger. How loud is it, say compared to the rattly Honda 5 we currently have?

[Barry]

Some of The Mercury Mariners were made by Tohatsu. I have a 3.3 that has to be close to 20 years old, good reliable 2 stroke motor, not excessively loud, easy maintenace, and light weight, self contained fuel tank. You can find these older ones for short money.

[villtur]

It doesn´t matter which brand your new outboard is; as long as it is yamaha. That can´t fail.

[Tusitala]

I have a 2.5hp Yamaha, quiet & powerful enough, pushes my William Garden "Eel' along at just over 5kt in almost any condition.

[biglad]

Is there a word missing here? If you have to shout over a 2.5 motor how is that much quieter? I am looking for quiet above most other considerations.

Sorry about the typo. The yamaha is the quiet one. The Seagull, while perfectly fine, is the louder one with the bark!