78' Re-Planking help needed pls!

[Peacefuljourney]

Having not seen any actual numbers, I have this thought:

The cost of craning the boat out at a yard is likely to be a small percentage of the total cost of the project. I realize cost is a concern, but working on a concrete slab in a yard with all of the support that goes with that seems like it'd be worth it.

I'd also be tempted to replank the entire hull, but of course this is a lot of added materials, but at least the help is allready on a roll.


Do forgive our fellow forumites. There have been a few unpleasant people that have shown up and they tend to get people's tempers going. It's made some of us highly suspicious.

Best of luck to you!

Well said.

[chuckt]

Hey Distant--take a look at what I did to my boat. If you need to completely redo the bottom its worth thinking about doing it this way--particularly if you are open to a non-traditional method. If you only have to replace a plank here or there probably not. http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...er-Restoration

And I'd love to see more pics of your boat--she looks great!!!

And I agree--you don't want to be doing this on a beach

[headonz]

apparently insults can flow only one way here,just depends who you have buddied up with I guess.

Ali, BBSebens

wrote:
"The cost of craning the boat out at a yard is likely to be a small percentage of the total cost of the project."

true , but first you must get a clear understanding of the structural integity of the framming ,backbone, keel or your boat could collape in the slings .Seen it happen.

[BBSebens]

Agreed. He's all ready had a diver in the water, so it'd be beneficial to get a knowledgable person, even a surveyor, to have a look at the structure from the inside. No one wants this to be a salvage operation.


No one is trying to insult anybody. I think that most of us (myself included) get riled up by the trolls who do show up and muck up our really excellent forum, and so we try to run them out before they get too far. It seems pretty safe to say that DistantSeas isn't a troll. This should, however, be a very informative thread, especially if we are provided with lots of good pictures... (hint hint)

[Raka025]

Dear Rob:

You are quite mistaken. My very good friend Ali has asked for advice from this group, looking for potential ideas. He has already had a fair bit of work on done Al Zahra. When I was his guest in Oman in early 2009, they were in the midst of working on her. I took this photo on our way out to board her and get a look around this impressive charter yacht.



-Scot

I apologize Ali and Scot. I am a little grumpy these days. Good luck with your project - nice picture Scot, I wouldn't want to ground it with a soft bottom...

[Lew Barrett]

Let's move this along in the spirit of amity; it's all good now.

It's hard not to curse the ill fortune that brings a new boat to these straights. I applaud Ali's spirit of acceptance in this, a circumstance that might bring me to tears.

To my way of thinking, a job of this scope needs a yard or a dedicated resting place where tools can be kept and, were it here on the US west coast, where power, water and cover might be made available. Even where labor is cheap, time is money especially for a charter boat not in service which has lost opportunity costs. Is there no way to find the boat a place with the necessary attributes where it might be safely hauled? I would be very focused on that as the first step in the process.

Is there a hauling service you can find that might move the vessel overland (if a voyage on her own bottom is out of the question) to the nearest best place? That could be worth whatever it might cost in saved aggravation and assurance that minimal damage will be done as the boat is moved.

Rather naively, I googled "Boat hauling and trucking, Oman (Dubai)" and came up with a few links. This one looked the most expensive so I posted it first

Somebody with a big rig and the right trailer might be able to handle it. Maybe....this is a big boat. But that's where the energy needs to be placed at the moment.

[DistantSeas]

Assalamu alaikum y'all.

Nice to come back to the forum to find all this useful information, and a happier crowd too! No more shoot-on-sight please fellows, you're much more agreeable purring than snarling.

Apologies accepted Rob and thanks for the explanations from everyone else. Sorry too if I was quickly irritated, I have no prior experience with the concept of "trolls" (I thought someone was calling my boat names the first time I read that in the posts), nor would I have imagined that with all the opportunities to meet interesting ladies online who can be easily fooled into thinking you were Clark Gable, anyone would waste his time falsely working you guys into a frenzy (with all due respect, eager women vs. salty woodenboaters is just no game).

Anyways, am happy to be back to share my latest adventures. I went to Sur, which is the main traditional wooden boatbuilding center in the region around 100 miles South East of Muscat. That's where I was planning to beach Al Zahra on the cradle some had suggested if I was going to do it that way.

I met with a very interesting fellow named Mr. Jumaa, who's probably around 70 but looks old enough to have built Sindbad's boat with his own hands. After explaining the plan, he warned against it. He said that the sand on the beaches in Sur was not very firm, and the cradle would likely dig in partially and if it did so unevenly it would flip the boat. Yikes!

Along with THAT interesting information, I returned with some photos from the yard for your viewing pleasure…(in the next post, with comments).

So, it's back to getting more competitive crane quotes to lift up in Muscat's Marina Bandar Rawda yard (the current quote stands at approx.US$10,000/lift-out!), or will do the 450-mile dash to the United Arab Emirates.

In response to popular demand (and to improve her image a bit after all this tarnishing!), here are some photos of lady Al Zahra. Those in the yard are from the last time she was up there, a little over 3 years ago in Suez, Egypt. A skin of pine but a heart of gold. (Actually a heart of aches, but I have to put in a good word for my old girl).


Below the waterline she is planked in pine only, with the now-famous galvanized nails fully nailed then countersunk a 1/2" deep into the plank, with that 1/2" covered with epoxy. All above the waterline (hull, cabins, flooring below the teak deck) she is the same and then a full coat of 1/2 or 3/4" of marine ply (depending on the location) screwed onto the pine using brass screws. The ply is then coated in epoxy resin and polyurethane paint. She is quite a heavy, seaworthy boat that took some heavy seas safely from Egypt to Oman.

[DistantSeas]

Et voila..

[Peacefuljourney]

I like how you guys put cousins everywhere... Should be quite funny too when the boat is rolling

Ok... Seeing the inside picture... 10 000$ for a safety haul out may be worth it. Specially with all the major work you want to do on it, it still a small % of all the repair if you are changing all the planking + problem you gonna found along the way.

Damaging the boat so save a few $ can cost you more then that at the end...

[Peacefuljourney]

A good point also about using a company to get out the boat, is insurance. If something go wrong, their insurance will pay for damage... Assure yourself that in the contract also.

[DistantSeas]

The trip to Sur... I don't usually take photos, but these were taken for my fellow forumites ;-)


The entrance to Sur harbor and the yards.


A 100-footer being built. Note the palm-thatched roof of the yard. The whole place has a really great vibe.


Some rowing skiffs.


Detail of the skiffs. No caulking needed.


Hand-carving the keel.


laying the first planks.

[DistantSeas]

All the teak and maranti lumber u could hope for..


Carving the motifs.


Close up.

[DistantSeas]

Let's move this along in the spirit of amity; it's all good now.

It's hard not to curse the ill fortune that brings a new boat to these straights. I applaud Ali's spirit of acceptance in this, a circumstance that might bring me to tears.

To my way of thinking, a job of this scope needs a yard or a dedicated resting place where tools can be kept and, were it here on the US west coast, where power, water and cover might be made available. Even where labor is cheap, time is money especially for a charter boat not in service which has lost opportunity costs. Is there no way to find the boat a place with the necessary attributes where it might be safely hauled? I would be very focused on that as the first step in the process.

Is there a hauling service you can find that might move the vessel overland (if a voyage on her own bottom is out of the question) to the nearest best place? That could be worth whatever it might cost in saved aggravation and assurance that minimal damage will be done as the boat is moved.

Rather naively, I googled "Boat hauling and trucking, Oman (Dubai)" and came up with a few links. This one looked the most expensive so I posted it first

Somebody with a big rig and the right trailer might be able to handle it. Maybe....this is a big boat. But that's where the energy needs to be placed at the moment.

Thanks a lot Lew for the link :-)

[DistantSeas]

Hey Distant--take a look at what I did to my boat. If you need to completely redo the bottom its worth thinking about doing it this way--particularly if you are open to a non-traditional method. If you only have to replace a plank here or there probably not. http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...er-Restoration

And I'd love to see more pics of your boat--she looks great!!!

And I agree--you don't want to be doing this on a beach

Lovely boat man! looking forward to reading your thread through.

[boattruck]

Distant, Thanks for the snapshots, some lovely boats. You should be able to find some one to help with your situation, obviously there is a pool of talented folks locally, keep us posted, Cheers, BT

[floatingkiwi]

Wow, WOW. This is my kinda place. Handcarving tools all over the place, I thought I was the only idiot who handcarved all the bits together, (not saying you guys are idiots),and my boat that I have almost finished restoring, I threw a shelter over in one night, in the rain, two years ago, and it still,( only barely ), has not leaked a drop on the project. Now it I had of thought of a thatched roof! I love it.

This is probably just for sun right? Does it rain at all here in Sur Harbour?

This thread started off rather unfortunately, for some, but has settled into one that promises lots of interesting and valuable reading for all. Well done everybody.

[floatingkiwi]

I like how you guys put cousins everywhere... ...

AAh, I think you mean cushions. A cousin is offspring from the loins of your parents siblings.Or if you're from where I am from, a good friend, '"Hey Cuz".

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Distant, lovely boat.... and quite a serious project too. My suspicions are this: If you have a lot of planking that is soft, there will be some structural issues too. When this boat is hauled, make sure she gets blocked securely in all areas. Use a laser level if you can, so that the blocking is supporting the boat to her hull shape. finding someone to properly haul this boat is more likely a challenge given her condition than finding someone to replace the bottom.

Second: Yes, you could do a laminated bottom on this boat, and it would work well, but my first reaction is to construct in carvel using a better material... since what we would call 'exotics' are more easily available at a moderate price where you are, nothing wrong with a carvel bottom in teak or mahogany. You also have a chance to strengthen or replace structure this time around. While laminated bottoms are strong and light, nothing on this hull shape tells me you would particularly benefit from a laminated bottom, and you have the issue of familiarity when it comes to labour. Looks like the carvel building crowd there have lots of experience, so why not do that.

That said, I am not really up on my antifouling/boring/barnacle problems of the middle east, so wood choice is fairly important. If teak was cheap... well, have at it. A strong and very rot resistant bottom to be sure. Almost unaffordable over here mind you...

Good luck, lovely boat. Well worth the investment, although it will be significant I have no doubt

[Lew Barrett]

Beautiful settings, inside and out. I agree with you Peter, and as she appears to be round chined and will seemingly operate at displacement speeds, I'd consider teak as first rate option if the weight penalty wasn't deemed to be prohibitive.

Whatever you do, it will be interesting to watch.

[CharlieCobra]

Gorgeous and I'll bet very heavy yacht. I guess I missed the pissing match, just as well. Nice to see the direction this thread has taken. Ali, how's the prevailing labor, rate wise there? With that selection of wood, why wouldn't folks consider building their wood yachts there instead of Asia?

[Raka025]

Block her as high as possible to make work easier underneath.

[Larks]

Ali, lovely boat mate and thank you for the pic's of Sur, that rowing skiff looks quite amazing.

I'm not an authority on the best way to replank your hull but the one thing I've come to understand on this forum is that from all of the great advice available, every opinion has an opposing opinion and it is up to you which one you go with. No matter what you do someone will disagree with it.

I'd taken a photo of a "jinker" at our yard today thinking that it may be a useful option for you, or at least maybe open up a few ideas. Something that you could probably have built there from second hand parts, truck wheels and axles etc, at less than the cost of a $10k crane lift, which you could use again or possibly sell afterwards to someone with the same problem as yourself?? (Or hire out?). This one is actually better built and a bit more "classy" than most jinkers I've seen, they don't need to pass a roadworthy test.

However from what you say about the beaches at Sur I now wonder whether you'd actually have anywhere to be able to use this.

Anyway, having taken the photo, for what it's worth here it is anyway. This vessel on it is 86 metres long, I don't know the weight but you would really only use this to drag the vessel out of the water and then block it up on a hard stand to work on it. You would not take it on a long distance.

[Peacefuljourney]

You do like Francis Drake in the 1560... He dig a channel big enough to bring his vessel inland, then closed the entrance with sand so water doesn'T come in.

Then the boat blocked, they dig around the boat to change the planking
Lot'S of digging, but with today machinery it can be something to think about.

He sure had some slave to help him out.... Maybe you can hunt down a slave market somewhere? :P

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

The issue with this boat is support. She is not anywhere near as heavily built as the fishing boats pictured above, and has nowhere near the lightness and integrity of the fibreglass boat on the dolly that Larks posted. My estimation on weight for this boat is somewhere around 35 to 40 tons. I would think that even in an area that had fairly competitive facilities, pulling this boat is about $3k or more... not surprising that it's ten where he is.

The question here is whether someone has the time to supervise the building of a alternate cradle/dolly, the expertise to do so, and whether that combination actually saves money. This is a big heavy boat. It isn't anything I would be willing to take on with short notice.

[BBSebens]

She's 70 tons.

There are nearby beaches where the tide is about 8ft up and down ... Regretfully I can't just beach her without side supports or something for her to sit on as her rudders and propellers are lower than the keel, and she wouldn't stay upright anyway without side supports.

Its definitely a big lift, and a movable cradle of any kind will have to be very stout. But you can get a long way on 10K (well, here you can anyway).

Mushy planking may be a bigger issue than lighter-than-workboat construction. Either way, carefully places straps will be very important.

Just an idea: if one big crane is too much, could two smaller cranes be cheaper? More risk for problems, but probably more support for the hull.

[Lew Barrett]

If the boat is to be picked, the best solution would be an appropriate sized Travel Lift, six straps, which means a 100 ton lift or better. It's really too bad there is no railway or dry dock. That would be the best thing in this case. I'd hope, maybe even suspect that the concern over bad framing might be overblown unless it is made from cheese. I hope they won't prove to be or this job will get more painful in a hurry.

A proper facility is the best bet anyway and if she's strapped, make sure they use as many of them as are possible and that they are placed at the hardest points of the boat.

[DistantSeas]

Thank you everybody for the replies and the great info. Sorry I have not responded earlier with thanks, had some out of town guests :-).

Will keep those of you interested updated (and bore the others) with new posts on the situation as soon as I figure out where and how to lift her. I am sure the photo shoots thereafter will be quite interesting...

Yes, Floatingkiwi, Sur is fabulous and so is all of Oman actually in that sense. Natural materials, palm trees, no pollution, sun year-round and genuine Arab hospitality.

Rarely rains in Sur, and weather is usually in the 70 degree region in winter

[Peacefuljourney]

Here a video that can maybe help you out.
http://bf494.co.uk/blog1.php/2009/12...t-from-scratch

Look at around 12:19, it's a good demonstration of what we have talked before.

[sdowney717]

I will bring two videos up just for another idea, reject or accept as a possible idea and information.
The substance is called a polyurea. It is an EXTREMELY STRONG WATERPROOF FLEXIBLE coating which wont crack, peel off, or fail in any imaginable situation the hull
would be exposed to. And very easy to apply, dries in minutes and coats over itself.

hull coating video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyrogrbahyQ

video showing just how strong, tough, and adhesive this stuff is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGlMK...ayer_embedded#

I dont know where your pine is rotting and why, is it fresh water coming in or due to the sea life?
You might consider sealing the inner hull along with the outer hull.
Rot takes 4 things to prosper, oxygen, fresh water at the right concentration, temperature, wood type.
Eliminate any one and the cycle is broken. Polyurea can eliminate the fresh water soaking the wood and seal out the oxygen.
If you did this, the hull would have to dry out first. You would want the planks moisture content low.
Keeping the galvanised iron fasteners dry away from salt will extend their life immensely.

An epoxied multi layered wood encapsulated dynel, xynol covered hull will be a huge amount of money and effort expended.
The polyurea coating can achieve similar benefits with less amount of money, time and labor.

[Hwyl]

Wow what a great thread this has become

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Personally, while I know some will tout covering a wooden boat with goo or fibreglass, I would like to seem some evidence from a respected yard on the use of coatings like polyurea. Based on my experience with any of the coated boats I have come across, I think it's a very very bad idea. I would be happy to learn of a significant wooden boat restorer that is using this method, but I don't know of any. A laminated bottom is a very different method than coating a carvel bottom with something. If cost if a factor, as in the replacement bottom is going to exceed the restored value of the boat, or if the owner is unable to logistically accomplish a traditional rebuild, then okay, it's a stop gap method. Replanking this boat properly should assure at least 15 years and more.

[sdowney717]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ebnww...eature=related
polyurea is just to easy!

[Peacefuljourney]

I second peter,
I wouldn't cover a rotten structure with that stuff even if it's crazy strong.

Cover rot with something else just don't make sense in my head, specially with a boat of that size & luxury. Replacing the rot with good wood will be the first step of all.

Does US will cover the world trade center with that stuff next time they gonna build them

[sdowney717]

Replacing the rot with good wood will be the first step of all.

yes, then coat it. I doubt the entire hull is rotten. People's idea of what is rot also differs. If it is structurally rotten, then it must be fixed.
Pine planks dont sound very rot resistant.
A polyurea coating by its very nature is better than xynol-epoxy in many ways.
Easy application
extreme strength
100% water proof.
no cracking or splitting or peeling

Perhaps some yards might not like it if it lowers there labor and future repair charges.

[sdowney717]

http://wn.com/K5%E2%84%A2_Polyurea__...ll_Protection#
another hull coating video. I suppose this is demonstrating some of its durability running it around on the rocks and gravel.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

yes, then coat it. I doubt the entire hull is rotten. People's idea of what is rot also differs. If it is structurally rotten, then it must be fixed.
Pine planks dont sound very rot resistant.
A polyurea coating by its very nature is better than xynol-epoxy in many ways.
Easy application
extreme strength
100% water proof.
no cracking or splitting or peeling

Perhaps some yards might not like it if it lowers there labor and future repair charges.

I think the premier woodenboat restoration yards would happily use it if it had merit.

[Peacefuljourney]

I think the premier woodenboat restoration yards would happily use it if it had merit.

Yes, it's like Awlgrip paint which is great for fiberglass boat. Say that to this boat:


One of my ex girlfriend worked on that boat, after they put awlgrip for paint the whole damn hull started to rot.
Covering wood is not always a good idea.

[sdowney717]

aged awlgrip type paint cracks and lets water in, I have seen that.
For long term durability, any coating on wood must be flexible, move with the wood and stay waterproof.
One reason I like the acrylic latex house paint on my boat. When I first got my boat, the oil based paints were of that variety, the expensive yacht finish type of paint. The surface had cracked and held a lot of rain water wetness on the wood. I ended up replacing some planks.

A conventionally planked boat seeps in saltwater and preserves the wood, planks usually stay good underwater as they are soaked in brine, but framing rots due to fresh water seeping down between planks and frames from rain. All my underwater planks were ok as far as fresh water rots, BUT, there was some worm and other critter damage. Mostly along plank edges. I also had electrolysis of the wood above the struts, and on several thru hulls.

[boattruck]

Ah, the urge to slather with this years new wonder goo comes up again and again, and so far, I have only seen it be useful as a last ditch effort to stave off the inevitable for another few seasons...
The other factor in this equation is that traditionally skilled labor abounds in this location. While access and availability to the material and the required equipment for this sort of propiatory proccess could be more than a problem here, even if it were the best option...
Cheers, BT

[Pericles]

Dem Bojang completed the PDA spray applicators course in 2007. dem@anticortd.com

Anticor, PO Box 212855, Debai, UAE. http://www.pda-online.org/Content.asp

[gar37bic]

I have a couple of oddball suggestions.

I used to work with inflatable buildings, and I know you can do some amazing things with air. You may have seen the big 'bladder' tanks that are sometimes used to ship fuel or chemicals, tied down on flatbed trucks. You could build a set of inflatable 'rollers' that the boat could sit on, like big logs (perhaps 1 or 2 meter diameter), long enough to stick out from both sides of the boat for 2 meters or so, made out of heavy plastic like those bladder tanks. These would not dig into the sand. Basically as the boat is pulled by a Cat, the tube that came loose at the back would be moved around and put in front again, just like your great grandparents moved huge stones for the pyramids. These air-filled rollers would provide support almost as good as sitting in the water, if you use enough of them.

You might research so-called 'Rollagon tires', which have been used on trucks for travel in soft sand. Using those tires as the beginning of the idea, you could build a support frame as suggested above, and use axles with Rollagon-type tires on them (or just a lot of regular low-pressure tires to spread the weight). Something like one of these two ideas would work better over sand than skids.

But laying a boat railway, even wooden tracks in the sand might be the best solution as this provides a simple way to get the boat back into the water. (There may be an old railway like this hidden away locally.)

You can also move the boat a fairly long distance by wrapping a couple of those strong tarps that truckers use under the boat, and pulling them tight. Ships have been known to go for thousands of miles with nothing but a sail keeping most of the water out.

Another idea - depending on how far you have to pull the boat from the water - dig a trench so you can float the boat in as far as you need to go. Line under the boat with plastic. When the boat is in far enough, back fill the trench between the boat and the sea, leaving the boat in a big plastic basin. Then fill the basin with water, raising the boat until it is well above sea level. Then build a cradle under the boat, run timbers to support the frame, back fill inside the basin with sand, you'll have the boat on a platform that you can then jack up using building jacks.

Unfortunately, I don't know that any of these ideas would cost less than just having two cranes lift the sucker up. I'm guessing that two cranes for one day would be on the order of $2000 to $3000 in your area? It's a lot of money, but it's a lot of boat.

[DistantSeas]

Greetings dear woodies.
For those who have been following the story, and for the many who have been so kind to help, I am happy to announce that finally, and after months of deliberation and procrastination, Al Zahra is out of the water.
Having gotten permission from the marina where she's berthed to lift her out in an empty spot on the side, I finally shoveled out $10K from my hard-earned and hired a 450ton crane and around $3K to build cradles and lifted her out.
Turns out there was very little rot, but the planking was home to probably half of the Arabian Sea's worms. The planks are sponge-like from infiltration, as you can see in the attached photos.
The main reason of the post is to share news and photos and thank all who helped with advice, but also to seek your advice again on the following repair issues:
1. God-willing, I will be replacing all below sea-level planking. Heeding the advice of the majority here, I will be replanking traditionally but this time either in African Mahogany instead of pine. I've contacted the workers who originally did the planking back in Egypt, and they want to fasten the planks with the 5" regular hammer-on nails they are used to (though at my request they have agreed to use stainless steel instead of the standard galvanized steel nails they usually use). I remember a lot of people were shocked here the last time I told them the boat was fastened with nails, which is why I want to ask if you guys think I should insist they use screws instead.
2. The main teak deck on Al Zahra now leaks due to being wrongly fastened from the start. The stainless screws that were used to fasten the teak strips to the marine ply base were not properly sealed and many have partially rusted over the years and break inside if an attempt is made to remove them. My question is, to repair/replace this deck, should I: a. try to salvage the teak by removing it, treating the marine ply underneath for leaks and then glue it to the ply without screws and bung the holes. Or, if this first option is not recommended or I don't manage to remove the teak strips undamaged and I need to replank with new teak, should I: b. remove the old teak and check ply underneath for rot, replacing it where needed before replanking or c. just cover the old teak with a thin sheet of marine ply and then teak planks over that.
3. I would also like to sing the praise of a certain borax recipe I got from the site here and which I generously used on the wood planking about 5 years ago before applying the antifouling. The planking is in great condition rot-wise, despite being in the water several years and despite being made of pine. Though it appears the worms found the borax just the right topping for their meal. :-)
Home-Brew Water Solution of Borates: 65% water, 20 %borax, 15% boric acid; 15.8% borates; To make this solution mix the required quantities and heat until dissolved.



and more:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alibad/...57627529143303

[Larks]

Welcome back Ali,

I hope someone with more knowledge chimes in re the nails for the planking but I don't think stainless steel nails are really the answer either, I think you need to look for something like silicon bronze or monel screws and have them countersunk and bunged if you want a good long term fix.

Re the deck, if you were to cover the old teak with a thin sheet of marine ply and then teak planks over that, not only would you trap existing rot under the new deck, you would risk substantially upsetting the stability of the vessel with the additional weight up top. There have been many discussions and disagreements on the forum here re laying teak decks over ply, but for what it's worth I've found the most common way of laying teak over ply decks these days seems to be to lay your ply deck, glass it over to seal it then epoxy down the teak deck either with weights to hold it down or temporary screws between the planks that will be removed and the screw holes filled after the deck has cured - do a search on the forum here and you should find more information than you need.

So either go back to the existing ply deck and either seal it with f/glass or dynal and epoxy, or replace it completely or where necessary depending on the state of it once the teak is up, save what teak you can, glass (or dynal) the ply deck then epoxy the teak to the ply

[Thad Van Gilder]

Oh my... did I understand correctly that this boat was built in 1999?

[Larks]

Ali, have a look at this thread re metals for underwater use:

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...ass...........

[Capt Zatarra]

I'll toss my 2€ in here. Stainless steal does NOT do well incapsulated it needs oxygen or it will degrade very quickly. If you used stainless they might not last as long as galvanized. The bronze ring shank boat nails that I pulled out of my planks were 43 years old and were still penny bright, they looked brand new. Also about your new deck, I tried the glued teak on plywood, what a disaster! If you want a traditional looking deck stick to a traditional way of doing it, if you like the nice white deck that is very popular with motor boats and a lot of smaller sailboats, this has many very effective ways of doing this from the old school way of canvas duck and white lead paint, to the more modern way like fiberglass and resin, to the cutting edge new materials. Well I hope this helps. Capt. Z.

[DistantSeas]

Dear Larks, Capt. Z, thank you very much for your quick and useful replies.
So stainless is out. Still, I would please like more input and opinions on whether I should let them go ahead with nails instead of screws, and possibly cover the nails with epoxy after countersinking them. Should they need pulling out 20 years later, shouldn't it be easy enough to drill through/remove the epoxy somehow then pull out the nails?
Also, the current plan is to fill the holes left behind where the old nails will be removed with wooden bungs where possible and with an epoxy/sawdust mix elsewhere. Any comments?
The link you sent is very informative Larks, thank you, but was a bit overwhelming :-). I guess after getting a final call on whether nails are acceptable or not, I will just need an opinion on the best all-rounder material regarding value for money and which does the job well enough for a couple of decades.
Thx.

[DistantSeas]

Oh my... did I understand correctly that this boat was built in 1999?

Yes, pourquoi?

[Thad Van Gilder]

Wow, that pine did not do well at all...

the frames look a bit rough... do they have any damage?

[DistantSeas]

Praise be to the Almighty, the frames are still mighty strong. Only two, fore, have partial damage and will be replaced. All will be sanded well and what nails we are able to remove will be romoved and bunged or filled with epoxy and sawdust.
It appears pine is only good for bed planking under mattresses, and then only if you're not too naughty in bed :-)