St lawrence river skiff

[Robert Abernethy]

At the last Open Boat Festival in Brentwood bay www.openboatfest.com
One of the participants brought this boat for display and he left it behind after the show for a while. After walking by it a couple of hundred times we decided to build a new one using the old boat as a pattern. The original boat is too far gone to be restored but still has it's shape. We brought the boat into the shop and made molds of the inside of the boat. Then took as many patterns as possible.
We were having a slow period at the shop so we decided to build this lovely little boat.

[SMARTINSEN]

Robert, I think that your links are improperly coded. You have it thus:
http://forum.woodenboat.com/www.openboatfest.com

Take out the first http:// all the way through to woodenboat.com/

leaving only:

www.openboatfest.com

and it should work.

Similarly with your web site. It is a great site, let everyone here see it.

[gibetheridge]

Got any pictures?

[Robert Abernethy]

Recently at the last Open Boat Festival a friend dropped off a nice little double ender that Jean and I ended up falling in love with. I believe that it is a St Lawrence river skill and we are almost certain that this boat was a rental boat due to the vast number of repairs done to her. The planking and keel are pine or white cedar and the rails, stem and stern post are oak. The fastners are copper clench nails. Instead of going to the trouble of taking lines off the boat and lofting. We decided to make the molds right in the boat. We straitened up and fared the boat. Then by assembling patterns in the boat we created actual patters of the exact boat. To date we have the molds set up and we are beginning the construction of the new boat.

[Robert Abernethy]

St Lawrence skiff




Here are the latest pictures of the boat.
Garry oak stem and stern. A yellow cedar keel and the nicest red cedar planking we have ever seen. I have used this batch of cedar for 10 years. It was a big batch. So far we have hung 4 sets of planks and working on the 5th.

[Robert Abernethy]

Pictures posted!

[Robert Abernethy]

www.openboatfest.com
Test

[Robert Abernethy]

http://www.openboatfest.com/
test 2

[Thorne]

The boat photos on your agboats.com site are shown in a Flash slideshow, so you can't display them in web forum posts, just put links as you have in your sigfile.

If you are trying to show images posted as standard .jpg files, follow these instructions. Also tell us what the problem is, where they are posted, and we'll get you set up.

Here's how to post photos on this forum:

FIRST - Don't attach photos. Only a tiny version will display.

SECOND - Post the photos on the web. Use your own website or a free image hosting service like www.flickr.com, picturetrail, photobucket, etc.

Once posted on the web, right-click the photo to "Copy Image Location", or drag the photo to another browser window, then copy the URL (web address). You can test by pasting the photo URL into the location field (http://* ) of a web browser and see if the photo displays. Remember that this process will not work for photos only located on your computer, or uploaded to members-only Yahoo groups.

(In Flickr - You usually have to first click the photo to bring up the black-framed viewer, then click the "View All Sizes" link near the top right. Then you can get the URL by right-clicking the image. If you don't want the largest size (displayed) you can then click another option in the "Available sizes" links above the image.)

THIRD - ONE TIME PROCEDURE TO SET UP ENHANCED INTERFACE:
1. Click the "Private Messages" link in the browser window in the top left of the menu bar.

2. Click the "General Settings" link about 2/3 down the left column under "My Account".

3. At the bottom of the next page in "Misc Options", select "Enhanced Interface - Full WYSIWYG Editing" from the Message Editor Interface options. Click the Save Changes button.

FOURTH - DO THIS EVERY TIME TO POST IMAGES IN THREADS:
A. Once the above Enhanced Interface has been set up, in any "Reply" window you can click the "insert image" icon --> a little yellow square icon with a dot at each corner, a tiny tree in the center.

Depending on browser version and Reply/Edit status, this may bring up a simple window to paste the URL into, or the "Add an Image" window described below.

B. If the window titled "Add an Image" comes up, click the "From URL" tab, paste the URL of the photo in the field, deselect the box for "Retrieve remote file and reference locally", then click the "INSERT IMAGE" button. The Forum software will resize some large images, so look at your post to see the actual displayed images.

YouTube video on how to select the image URL in Firefox, navigate the "Add an Image" tabs and paste the image URL -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkfB_...layer_embedded

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

There are a lot of boats that have been called a "St Lawrence Skiff" but truly there is only a small group of builders that really built a St Lawrence skiff. Most of them were around the Thousand Islands area. This is a repro St lawrence, and fairly accurately done. If you notice it is a smaller finer boat in terms of dimensions than what you have.




I believe that yours is something else, but from the Thousand Islands/Great lakes area. There were probably a dozen small builders that made rowing skiffs of that type between 1890 and 1930 in the area. Peterborough boats made a skiff quite similiar to what you have. Theirs are typically about 14 feet and a little broader boat than the true St Lawrence skiff.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Here is another "St Lawrence Skiff" on Antique boat America, that was found on Wolfe Island, at Kingston. Approximately 1900.



Here is a Jackson boats of Ogdensburg NY St Lawrence. This is what I would call the classic St Lawrence Skiff. Note the shape of the sheer and the low freeboard at the center rowing station.



Your boat looks like an Ivy Lea built boat... maybe Andress, Cranker Brothers, or George Clunker. It's old..... likely pre WWII. Nice boat, well worth reproducing, and a higher capacity for passengers and open water than the boat above. I know something of these boats, since I grew up in the area, but what is called a St Lawrence skiff is a wide range of boats, and some were motorized or had sailing rigs. With the long long history of cottaging around the Thousand Islands, there was a fairly healthy boat building industry in the area.

[Robert Abernethy]

Thorne,
Thank-you for you direction. I will try to follow it carefully.
The pictures you guys posted were really great and very helpful. Our little boat is very similar but I can see the differences. Our reference was out of the Building Classic small craft book that we just happened to have on the shelf.
Just had a look at my pictures again and notice that the tape measure notes 14'4"
I wish I could get a larger picture up. I'm going to follow Thorne's suggestions and see what I can do.

[gibetheridge]

What you have there looks a lot like a "Davis Boat", probably built by a member of the Davis family of the Tsimshian band in Metlakatla, Alaska. The Center for Wooden Boats has plans for a 14 footer.


http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=h...26tbs%3Disch:1

[Robert Abernethy]

Good suggestion,
all the planks on the old boat are scarfed indicating an insufficient supply of good wood. It appears to be white cedar,(east coast?) not very good quality. The craftsmanship on the other hand is very good. The fits are very tight and there are no broken plank ends. One interesting thing about this boat is that most of the frames are not continuous. They seem to overlap at the turn with the exception of the ends. I originall thought this to be a repair but there are no indications of fastener holes or any other signs.
The thwart knees remind me of Paul Gartside's. It makes me think if there is some English infuence in the build. I worked with Paul for some years and making the knees for the boat really brought me back to that time.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

I think you have a boat that is specifically Lake Ontario/Thousand Islands, although there were a lot of similiar boats built elsewhere I'm sure. The construction and the material fits.

[Lew Barrett]

Hi Robert! Nice to see you posting here. Can't wait to see how she turns out, maybe even to see her in the flesh one of these days. She will turn some heads.

[Robert Abernethy]

Hey Lew. I have a new T-shirt for you. Next time your in Brentwood.
Did Mike O. show you my poster?

[Robert Abernethy]

I followed Thorne's direction and it works. Thanks!

[Robert Abernethy]

A better picture of the sheebr /> Not much compared to the other pictures

[Robert Abernethy]

Here is a close up of the stern post. This should help identify this little boat. Any other suggestions?

[gibetheridge]

Robert,

You might read this through and contact The CWB. They may be interested and may be able to ID it for you.

I have all of the literature and plans and offsets and it sure looks like the same boat to me, except for two differences. While the plans for the transom sterned model show clinker planking none of the plans or photos of the double enders show clinker planks, they are all carvel.

Also, in the plans for the double ender the stems are both curved and have the same offsets. They did build several models and sizes though, it was an evolving design.

http://tsca.net/pdf/tab/TABv28-3.pdf

If you would like I can forward the plans etc. and you can keep them for a while and make copies.

[Robert Abernethy]

I'd like that very much thank-you.

[gibetheridge]

I'll be in town tomorrow, will mail them then.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

How do you explain Eastern white cedar on a boat built in the west?

[gibetheridge]

I don't, but the similarity and the fact that Davis boats were very common on the west coast, especially to the north of here, makes it worth pursuing, don't you think? Also, it may not be EWC, local pine perhaps, or Port Orford cedar? What puzzles me the most is that the planks are not all full length, while 15' planks have never been hard to find between here and Alaska. In the pictures I see some flat grain, too, and no need for that here either. Anyway, it may help Robert to figure it out having the lines and offsets, and what can it hurt?

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

It could be yellow cedar I suppose.

Given the distance, I guess it's more likely to be a western boat. Interesting to see the commonalities on skiffs over such a wide geographic range. Most of the families that built boats around here were not "shipwrights" in the real sense... They copied and adapted etc. I have a Gregory boat company dinghy in the shop right now...1920 or so, and it is Western Red on white cedar ribs... Gregory boats were in Detroit, so there you go... eastern white would have been easy for them to get.

[Lew Barrett]

Hey Lew. I have a new T-shirt for you. Next time your in Brentwood.
Did Mike O. show you my poster?

I have loved the old one!

He did! Sorry I missed you at Brentwood this year. Next year for sure!

[Robert Abernethy]

We are on to the last plank. As you might notice we have decided to glue the laps with sika 290 dc. My opinion is it's the best of all the sika products. The reason for this is speed and being able to line out the fasteners with greater accuracy. We plan to fasten the boat traditionally with two copper nails between the frames and one in the frame and lap. I believe this will be a very speed way to do this. The fasteners are ready to go and so are the frames. We will likely flip the boat over next week some time.
Why Sika the seams? The way we use these boats these days is different to the old days. Most people use there boat only a couple of times a year. After 20-30 years a lapstrake boat need longer to take up. Sika helps stabilize this.\

[Robert Abernethy]

This is the 12' Paul Gartside that I am building right now. Fresh varnish!

[Robert Abernethy]

See more pictures
http://www.flickr.com/photos/56510350@N08/

[gibetheridge]

Did you get the plans I sent you? Is it as similar to the Davis boat as I think it is?

Whatever it is your new one sure looks good.

[P.L.Lenihan]

Thanks for those first two posts Peter J. Very informative and accompanied by wonderful pictures to illustrate it all!

Very,very, nice work Mr.Abernethy!! Nice looking shop too!


Cheers!


Peter

[Robert Abernethy]

Just received the package. What a treat!! I'm pouring through them now. Thank-you thank-you

Rob

[gibetheridge]

Thank the WBMag/WBF, all I did was mail them. A great service.

[Robert Abernethy]

Here is the boat fully planked and in the next couple of days we will be pulling her off the molds. We enjoy building lapstrake boats. It's the fastest of all planking. Including the scarfing each plank we average a set of planks every 5 hours. So far we are 40 hours into the boat.
We are hoping to have the boat done at about 100-120 hours. Lets see how we do!


.