Recommendations for first SOF project?

[gstanfield]

I've built two stitch and glue boats and am halfway through a ply on frame drift boat and am already thinking of what's next. I've decided that a nice kayak would be fun and the SOF ones keep drawing my attention. I'm not out to build a masterpiece, but rather want something that's easy for a first SOF build that will be stable enough to fish from.

With that in mind, I'd greatly appreciate any and all input

Thanks,
George

[PaulC]

If you can find a copy of the Robert Morris book 'Skin on Frame', it will provide all of the information for building a kayak that is specifically designed to fit you. I read my copy through inter-library loan since it was out of print.

[Ben Fuller]

Wander over to the Qajaq USA web site for massive amounts of information on SOF's.

[Tom M.]

I don't think a stable SOF fishing kayak design exists.

Maybe something like Platt Monfort's Rob Roy? Just skin it with something heavier than the 4 ounce Dacron. http://www.gaboats.com/boats/robroy14.html

Or, how about Dave's Chuckanut? http://www.gentrycustomboats.com/C15%20page.html

[gstanfield]

Hmm, I was wondering if there existed such a thing as the ones I keep seeing as real skinny fast looking yaks. I may have to break down and have one boat that I don't fish from, after all I can use one of the other boats when I'm fishing

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll keep looking and deciding just what I expect out of it.

George

[DGentry]

Thanks for the suggestion, Tom!
George, both the Chuckanut 12 and the Chuckanut 15 are easily stable enough to fish from - assuming you don't plan to be standing up. Both are of non-traditional construction, which is far faster and easier to build than traditional SOF construction. You can see them both on my website, if you are interested.

Good luck!
Dave Gentry

[gstanfield]

Dave, I left here and went to look at your website and I think I like what I'm seeing The Chuckanut 12 might just be the ticket to get me through this Wyoming winter with a little sanity left. Do you offer plans for these? I may be blind, but I didn't see any link on your website to a plans section.

Also, when did you leave CO and go to VA?

[Robert W. Long]

check out the website of Brian Schultz at capefalconkayak.com
I built his F1 and it is plenty stable eneough to fish from and weighs in at 28 lbs. He stacks crab pots on his and paddles out through the surf to set them and also line fishes from one. Plenty of amazing photos and info on the site.

[Tom M.]

I would not recommend an F1 for a novice kayaker who wants to fish. The F1 is not as stable as your typical plastic kayak, not by a long shot. Brian fishes from it, and he goes crabbing with it, but he is also an amazingly skilled kayaker who goes out in frightening conditions just to relax. (Frightening conditions to most, that is.) He would not go out in that boat if he didn't have an absolutely reliable roll in the most violent scary conditions. He does.

I have an F1 too. Great boat. Its more stable than my own boats, but not nearly as stable as, say, a Pygmy Coho.

I think, unless the OP has quite a bit of kayaking experience, he'd be better off with a beam of at least 28 inches.

[DGentry]

I got to VA a few weeks ago, likely just for the winter . . . but the East coast does seem to hold some possibilities!
Shoot an email to Traveller1719@yahoo.com and I'll send you the building guide for the C12. I actually designed the Chuckanut line because of the utter lack (since Percy Blandford, at least) of wide, stable "recreational" boats in the homebuilt SOF world.

[botebum]

If you can find a copy of the Robert Morris book 'Skin on Frame', it will provide all of the information for building a kayak that is specifically designed to fit you. I read my copy through inter-library loan since it was out of print.

I found copies of the book if anyone's interested. You're going to have to be Very Interested

Doug

[Paul Montgomery]

As Dave says, the non traditional type are faster to build. And probably cheaper too. Here is the first one that designed and built:

http://paddleandoar.com/notebook/orion/seatrials.php

At present I don't have the offsets, but it had a 24" beam and was quite stable. Similar lines were then applied to the folders that I made, and as you can see by the picture, it was stable enough to catch fish in.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_EnDNrdvpgbQ/Sq...yak-salmon.jpg

BTW, I find it to be a lot of work to kayak and fish at the same time. In the future I will be putting together some kind of anchor. It should make all the difference when a breeze comes up.

Paul M
http://paddleandoar.com

[brett price]

http://www.svensons.com/boat/?p=RowBoats/LittleChief

This is a cannoe not a kayak but it was my first sof build it took $150 and a regular 2 day weekend to build. It can easily handle 700 pounds of pasenger weight and can be paddled or rowed. Rock solid stable. I can stand and cast from it.

I used 7oz canvas from walmart and a gallon of exterior varnish for the skin it lasted 2 years sitting in the yard half full of water. I then reskinned it in nylon and an acrylic varnish and it still looks good five years later.

The frame was built as described with ply frames and stems. I would probably keep the ply stems but make ply-wood-ply gusseted frames next time. The planking was 3/4 x 1 striped out of 3 clear 5/4 x 6 pt yellow.

This ll give you a good feel for sof.

[David G]

I have kind of a basic question - fishing for what, with what gear, in what waters?

[gstanfield]

Fishing for little bitty trout in the North Platte river and nearby reservoirs when the wind dies down (not often) The Platte around here is all smooth with some very short periods of tiny rapids, but mostly just flat surface and 3-5mph surface speeds.

Occasionally I'll hook a decent 20-24 inch trout, but mostly it's stuff in the 15-18 inch range. Ultralight spinning reel, 5ft rod, 4lb line, 1/16th-1/8th oz panther martins.

I think that covers it

Thanks,
George

[David G]

george,

I'm not much of a fisherman, but have seen quite a few folks fish from their kayaks around here. More sit-on-top glass boats than SOF, but I've seen SOF used for ocean fishing - rockfish, ling cod, even halibut. I don't imagine catching rainbows will be out of the question at all. That said, I'd also be inclined to shade toward a beamier boat if the primary use will be as a fishing platform.

[gstanfield]

Thanks for the input, finding a beamy SOF boat is the part that seems to be hard. I'm thinking we may have something in the Chuckanut 12, but I'm always open to new ideas

DGentry, I've tried twice to send an e-mail to you and it has come back as undeliverable both times. I'll log out and try sending it without outlook and see if it's an issue with the computer here at work.

Thanks,
George

[Songololo]

If anyone is looking for details on the simplified SOF building technique, lots of good info, including offsets for a range of kayaks, can be found at Tom Yosts Yostwerks website.

[gstanfield]

Thanks for the link, lots of good info on there.

George

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

If you want something of modest length and wide and are willing to spend $30 you can get plans for one of Percy Blandford's SOFs. They have been around since the 1950s and are sold by Clark Craft in Buffalo. Percy did about 10 different configurations of the same basic hull. There is something for everyone. At least 4 hulls are 29" wide. Not sexy but well tried. British Sea Scouts built them and used them all around the British Isles. In general configuration they resemble the Chuckanut although the front decks have more pitch because they are designed for jaunts into tidal waters.
Remember, the Big Kahuna, George Dyson's first kayak was a Blandford design.

http://www.clarkcraft.com/

[huisjen]

I just went for it. No plans. Cotton duck and house paint.



Dan

[Paul Montgomery]

"Just going for it" works with SOF. Too many times the tendancy is to over think these things, and really, it's pretty hard to build a SOF that doesn't work.

[David Geiss]

Paul has it.....just read all you can (Snaith, Cummingham, Morris, Arima, Brinck, all all those I have eneglected to mention) and then just build it.
Have someone give you a hand to derive your body measurements and follow, loosely, the anthropometric guidelines developed over the centuries.
I am really fond on the round hole Kodiak Island variety and that's what I would likely build next time around.

Spend time on getting the sheer and plan dead on, symmetrical side to side and lock it all in with deck beams and masik.
Then you can add stem, stern and keelson. Once you get to that point, you will have most of the heavy lifting and figuring knocked out.
Also spend time mocking up the seating position, including masik, footrest deck beam and backrest....you'll appreciate that later.
The ribs, stringers, lashing, coaming all take time but it's not rocket science......you'll be amazed how much your lashing improves.....
Go for it.
Nothing like it on the water for paddling.
David


PS...,my mac.com pages need to be migrated to a new Apple service....will get that remedied and post for your comments/DES

[PaulC]

Do a search on "retrieval" kayaks. This may suit you well for a sof with stability. There would not be any more effort in one of these than any of the others.

[Paul Montgomery]

And in fact, I'll save you the search. Here is mine. Well, it's a RECOVERY kayak. Close enough...



http://paddleandoar.com/notebook/recovery/index.php

[DGentry]

George, I actually got all your mails (though I was on the road back from Detroit, yesterday) and sent the building guide this morning - check your email.

For everyone else, the Chuckanut 12 is 12' long x 30" wide, and stable enough that I've stood up in it. There are fundamental differences in these boats compared to the anthropomorphic Greenland style kayaks espoused by Starr, Cunningham, Morris et al. Even Retrieval/Recovery kayaks aren't so wide or stable, and - traditionally constructed - they are not as easy to build as a C12.

Dave Gentry

Chuckanut 12

[peterchech]

I recently built Dave's Chuckanut 15 and highly recommend it for smooth water. It is incredibly stable, I was very surprised by this.



It isn't yet completely finished (is a boat ever though?)... the pic is from my sea trials in a choppy atlantic bay...

It was stable enough that I put a small sail on it (~20 sq ft), and even in 25 knot winds there was no threat of knockdown. And the sail mooooved it even with two aboard... started getting water over the coaming (2 ft chop) and switched to paddling, had serious weathercocking issues but of course any stable kayak will in such high winds. If you plan on some choppy water, be sure to seal up where the coaming meets the backrest (if you install one) as water will enter through the rear of the coaming if it ever does...

Other than that though, I have been out in regular conditions in bays and lakes on the east coast and it has been an incredibly stable and functional boat, faster and more seaworthy than a canoe but with space and stability to boot...

Check out yostwerks.com for his wooden kayak building manual, great reference for plywood framed sof boat building

Don't waste your time with canvas, I did at first but got so many stupid little punctures when carrying the boat around (never in the water though interestingly) that I wound up stripping it all off. Get some 8 oz polyester from george dyson ($40) and buy Rory's "goop" (skinboats.org $60) it is well worth the investment you will never worry about a puncture again. Build the frame with pre-drilled drywall screws and thickened epoxy at all the joints and you can build the whole thing in three weekends or less costing you less than $200 if you're careful!

[gstanfield]

Dave, thanks a bunch. I got your e-mail and responded, but oddly got the same error message to my response?? Basically it just said thanks and asked where in Ft Collins can I find marine ply? I'm currently driving down to Denver (250miles each way) and being able to stop in ft collins would save me half a day and enough gas money to buy an extra sheet of marine ply

thanks, I'll post pics when I start construction.

George

[skinboat]

What I like best about Skin on Frame is the ease of building/designing boats. I'm on my 3rd and 4th now. The third one is a 14' sail boat with about a 4 1/2' beam. I usually start by working up some basic designs using Freeship. Once I get a design I'm happy with I pull off some basic dimensions, build some simple frames and start bending wood. I bend in smaller battens to define the longitudinal shape and then use those stringers to bend in the ribs. When I get those all in I add in the real stringers. When it looks like the boat I want, I add the skin.
That's what I love about the SOF method. It really lets you play around with things. If its not what I wanted I move things around and all I'm out is the wood for whatever ribs I have to rebend.

[Songololo]

Skinboat, do you have any pics of your SOF boats, being built or finished? What material are you using for ribs, what size and how is it bent?

Lance

[skinboat]

All I have right now is some at the very beginning stage. I'll grab some photos tonight of where I'm at so far.
My ribs are Red Oak. Yeah I know, but I've used green doug fir and cedar before and the work involved in steaming them was massive. The oak is stuff I had lying around that I bought at the big box store about 10 years ago, so it was basically free. I had all the 1X oak laying around, I cut it into 1/4 x 3/4 strips about 8 feet long. Before I steam then I take a plane to ease all four edges. I throw it in the steam box for about 15 minutes and I can literally tie it in a knot. It is infinitely easier than either fir or cedar. (I think I was hung up on the "Use only green wood" talk. The oak was KD, then air dried and its still bends beautifully.

[mcdenny]

Seems like a good place for a fundamental skin boat question... I just watched Jeff's (Kudzu Craft) video about the puncture resistance of the skin. It's on his home page here http://www.kudzucraft.com/

I'm not doubting his veracity but are skin boats really that tough? 6mm Okoume would not have taken some of those hammer blows.

[skinboat]

That's one of the things that really surprised me about SOF boats. They take a beating. I dont think they do that well with sharp objects, but heavy nylon will definitely absorb blows.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Skinboats survive because they can flex. Both the framework and the skin have some give so that some external forces can be absorbed. One of the common skinning materials is ballistic nylon.

[DGentry]

I'm not doubting his veracity but are skin boats really that tough? 6mm Okoume would not have taken some of those hammer blows.

Yeah, avoid the broken glass and razor blades, and you can do a lot of things to them that would not be so good for a wooden boat.
See some of that here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYyvIExWkqU

[gstanfield]

Dave, I picked up some wood today, have to finish a few "honey do's" first, but I'll start on that C12 in the next week or two

Thanks,
George

[jsjpd1]

As someone who's new to skin on frame, I find that one of the things I really like about it is how quickly things take shape, even if you're doing things the hard way. I just finished Dave's lovely Ruth design a month ago and I've just finished a knock in quarter scale of what I would like to build next. A slightly modified and mostly built by eye version of Chapelle's whitehall.







And here's one of Ruth because, well why not?



Jim

[gstanfield]

Ruth is still on my list of must have's. I'll build the C12 as a starter to get used to the method and then Ruth Your work looks top notch and your Ruth looks happy with her home

George

[DGentry]

I just finished Dave's lovely Ruth design a month ago and I've just finished a knock in quarter scale of what I would like to build next. A slightly modified and mostly built by eye version of Chapelle's whitehall.



Jim

Heh, your Whitehall is almost exactly what I'm halfway through building right now! Except mine is full sized, and with just 5 plywood frames, rather than 30 or so steam bent ribs. I should be done with mine by next week, if all goes as planned. Your model looks great!

Dave

[jsjpd1]

Heh, your Whitehall is almost exactly what I'm halfway through building right now! Except mine is full sized, and with just 5 plywood frames, rather than 30 or so steam bent ribs. I should be done with mine by next week, if all goes as planned. Your model looks great!

Dave

Cool, I'm sure you'll share with us when its done. How many stringers are you using? I went with bent frames because it was something that I really wanted to try, and I'm glad I started with a model. It didn't hurt so much when I broke just as many frames as I successfully bent and I managed to make a few mistakes I hopefully won't make again.

Jim

[NickW]

Evening All

Browsing the web a couple of evenings ago I found this Australian account of building a Percy Blandford wood and canvas canoe. Looks like a nice project.

http://download871.mediafire.com/hhw...ford+Canoe.pdf

Kind RegardsNick

[gstanfield]

Thanks for sharing Nick. I added it to my collection for future study

George

[Bill Mercer]

There's always this:


from Harvey Golden's site: http://www.traditionalkayaks.com/Kay...kReplicas.html

Not all of them are long, skinny beasts!

[skinboat]

Not really sure if this is the right place to mention this, but just ordered some fabric from George Dyson. What a pleasure to deal with him. He responded to my emails almost immediately, answered all the questions I had regarding skinning with Polyester vs Nylon and shipped me my fabric that day.

[gstanfield]

Definitely the place to mention it as far as I'm concerned. It's my thread about learning SOF stuff so any advice will be welcomed.

And Bill, that's a cute little yak there, never seen someone use ping pong paddles to paddle a boat before

George

[DGentry]

Not only do those little yaks get used with ping pong paddles, they also need 140lbs of rock ballast to keep them from falling over - very V bottomed. This according to Zimmerly - I don't recall if Harvey needed ballast, or not, for his replica.

George Dyson definitely gets my business, too, with fabulous service. Nice guy, too, with a fascinating shop in Bellingham.

JSJPD1, I'm using 3 intermediary stringers per side. I break a pile of ribs, too, when I use them - but have yet to break a plywood frame! I'm less enthused to get out in the cold to work, so my building has slowed down considerably. Perhaps tomorrow will be warmer . . . maybe I should have moved to Corpus Christi for the winter, instead of Virginia!

[gstanfield]

I just thought of another question, What material do you guys use for the clear skins and where do you get it? I think it would be fun to build one in clear, just looks crazy out on the water

Thanks,
George

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Evening All

Browsing the web a couple of evenings ago I found this Australian account of building a Percy Blandford wood and canvas canoe. Looks like a nice project.

http://download871.mediafire.com/hhw...ford+Canoe.pdf

Kind RegardsNick

That gentlman has postings about his "kayak" on this site .

[Kudzu]

Seems like a good place for a fundamental skin boat question... I just watched Jeff's (Kudzu Craft) video about the puncture resistance of the skin. It's on his home page here http://www.kudzucraft.com/

I'm not doubting his veracity but are skin boats really that tough? 6mm Okoume would not have taken some of those hammer blows.

I don't know how I missed this thread! Looks like most questions have been answered. But yes skin boats are that tough. I pulled no punches when I shot that video. It's the real deal and there are a couple more out there on the internet that back this up.

SOF boats are very tough, especially when it come to impact. But as I tried to demonstrate in the video, a really sharp object will rip it right open. The only thing that scares me is rusty metal. If I see any while paddling I stay well clear of it. Other than that I don't worry about hitting much else.

Running over rocks, stumps, tree limbs, downed tree's I think nothing of. Especially if the boat has a 12 oz skin on it. I have one boat that that has been run over a little bit of everything and there is nothing but a few marks on the hull. It always amazes people to see me go over obstacles. They are waiting on the boat to sink.

[mcdenny]

Thanks Jeff. I never hand a clue the SOF skin could absorb that much punishment. I did see another demo video where the guy jumped on his kayak sitting on the ground. It was as if he bounced on a trampoline, compressed down then sprang back up with no apparent damage. I dropped my kayak on a sawhorse and put a big hole in the ply deck.

Our pair of 40# CLC kayaks may get replaced by SOF boats. The weight doesn't matter paddling but putting them on the roof rack on my small SUV is a PITA.