Ex US Army camping stove ...kerosene .Are they any good ?

[PeterSibley]

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/VINTAGE-USA-A...23923472069900

I've looking for a light weight camping stove for use motorcyle camping .This has just caught my eye on Ebay .

Does anyone have an opinion ? Are parts available or do they use Primus type burners ?

Thanks all ,
Peter

[Bob Smalser]

The nomenclature for a parts search is Stove, Gasoline Burner, M1950. I believe these are still in use with parts in the supply system under Federal Stock Numbers. It's a gasoline convection burner like most camp stoves, and lights like a Primus. That stove is missing it's aluminum case (which doubled as a cooking pot) but if the internals are all there, it will have a set of spare gaskets inside the hollow plunger and a spare burner nozzle clipped to one of the uprights. All the gaskets are common hardware items that can be bought or fabricated anywhere.

I still use one. They are the cat's meow in backpack stoves. They'll heat up a 3-man tent most scoash and are one of the fastest stoves for making drinking water from snow. They were designed to operate on common gasoline instead of fancy stove fuel, but the nozzles last longer if you use Coleman fuel.

[PeterSibley]

Thanks Bob , can I just use kerosene ?

[Bob Smalser]

No kerosene in the M1950. But MSR (Mountain Safety Research) makes several excellent stoves using the same burner design that burn a variety of fuels. These are popular with climbers because they also melt snow well but are lighter than the M1950. But bring money.

http://www.rei.com/product/709002


Parts for the M1950:
http://cgi.ebay.com/US-ROGERS-1952-M...item27b47e18ba
http://cgi.ebay.com/NOS-COLEMAN-GENE...item58895e51c9
http://cgi.ebay.com/NOS-COLEMAN-GENE...item58895e51c9

[Bob Smalser]

Here's their ancestor from the 1930's. Slick.



http://cgi.ebay.com/Coleman-GI-milit...item23098722ef

[Ian McColgin]

When I was still climbing, I transferred my allegiance from a Svea (a better version than the army unit) to the MSR for many reasons, stability and packability and the seperable fuel tank high among them, but mainly after gasket overheating caused a failure in the relief valve and spewed burning gasoline on my shins while high on a ridge between Italy and Switzerland. It was a miserable downclimb with third degree burns I'd not want to repeat.

I've used both the Svea and the MSR inside a tent at altitude, usually cooking with the stove on my belly. They can be handled safely so long as you don't take anything for granted. Despite the dangers, they are much better cookers than any of the butane cartridge units and get water hot in way less than half the time. Plus you don't have all those blue cans to pack out.

White gas stoves work cleaner and better than kero, so spend a few cents more for fuel. But no matter what you use, make sure you keep the parts clean and functional.

[PeterSibley]

Bob , I know about the MSR , very nice , very pricey !

The education on the GI stove is much appreciated , it might be just the thing , although I'm suspicious of petrol / gasoline as a fuel .Is unleaded OK ? That's all we have now , as do you I expect .

Peter

[Ian McColgin]

Unleaded will work, but Coleman has few additives - nothing to prevent engine knocking and all that stuff - and, especially important in this age of insane energy policies, no ethanol. It's worth the extra cost.

[PeterSibley]

I'm a little old fashioned and have used the normal brass kero primus for years , at the moment I'm thinking of (slightly ) more compact gear , not backpacking this time , but smaller and more compact would be good .

I noticed a couple of MSR units on US Ebay , I think I may have a look around again . They're A$250 here !

[PeterSibley]

Unleaded will work, but Coleman has few additives - nothing to prevent engine knocking and all that stuff - and, especially important in this age of insane energy policies, no ethanol. It's worth the extra cost.

I don't think I've seen it here although we do see ''lamp oil'' in the shops .Not the same I assume ?

[Ian McColgin]

Not at all. Lamp oil is really pure kerosene (parafin). Much less volitile than any gasoline. If you use a stove in real cold, you'll much preferr gasoline stoves since that fuel won't turn to clumps of wax as the temperature dips to a few degrees of frost.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

I'm a little old fashioned and have used the normal brass kero primus for years , at the moment I'm thinking of (slightly ) more compact gear , not backpacking this time , but smaller and more compact would be good .

I noticed a couple of MSR units on US Ebay , I think I may have a look around again . They're A$250 here !

Seek ye a primus 96 or clone if you really want a small form factor kero burner.
If you can afford the weight/size then the Optimus 111 (especially in roarer form) is famously rugged and reliable - and can be run on gasoline or kero.

But the dog's danglies is the Primus omnifuel - Diesel, Kero, Unleaded petrol, Coleman/white gas or propane/butane cylinders - and doesn't suffer fromn the damnably unreliable plastic effin pump.

If you are stuck on a one-piece Coleman then the 550 is small neat effective and will run on Kero or Gasoline with just a generator swap.

Long long ago when I used to camp from a motor bike my stove of choice was the optimus 8R - it takes about one float-bowl's worth of fuel to re-fill the tank.

[Bobcat]

For motorcycle camping, I use two stoves, depending on the ride. I have a Dragonfly by MSR, which burns white or auto gas. I mostly use a homemade alcohol stove, a fun project made from two beer cans. It s small and weighs next to nothing and burns readily available alcohol. It works surprisingly well

http://www.jureystudio.com/pennystove/

[Bob Smalser]

As Ian said, the problem with fuels other than gasoline is they lack BTU's. That means you carry more volume and weight in fuel for the amount of heat generated, which I'd think would be a factor in motorcycle camping as it is in climbing. Moreover, they are more difficult to light in the cold. You also can't pinch some unleaded from your gas tank when you run short of stove fuel.

For those who insist on a kerosene stove, head on over to your local airfield and scrounge some Jp-4 or Jp-5 turbine fuel. Sometimes they have some contaminated or suspect fuel unsuitable for aircraft but fine for stoves they will give away. Burns cleaner than K-2 Kerosene and with more BTU's. They work wonderfully in the old Aladdin wick heating stoves, which were preferable to gasoline Yukon stoves or the oil-fired Potbellies in all but the coldest regions because the middle-size kerosene stoves don't require a chimney while gasoline and diesel stoves do.

Otherwise obtain a bale of straw, two #10 tin cans from the mess hall, and two candles from supply. Stomp down the snow and spread half the bale of straw on it, stake down one rain ponch over the straw as a ground cloth, erect the pup tent over the poncho, spread the remainder of straw on the tent walls and hold it in place with the second poncho. Cover with snow to cement all in place and seal out drafts. Climb in, light the candles inside the cans and enjoy the surprising warmth they provide.

[amish rob]

Mr. Smalser,

Is that the same GI Stove Sam Rabl goes on about in his building book? Just curious.

[Bob Smalser]

Mr. Smalser,

Is that the same GI Stove Sam Rabl goes on about in his building book? Just curious.

Could be. I've never read any of his books, but two stoves developed during WWII that are still in use today and very popular are this one, referred to as the "squad stove" based on its allocation being one per 10 men, and the Yukon gasoline tent stove below.

[amish rob]

Certainly the little guy. Rabl shows a portable galley made from a hinged box with a stove that looks like the small photo you posted. It was the lid/pot combo that made me wonder. His building book is quaint and fun to read; came from a time when folks did stuff.

If I could work this computer, I might be able to find an image on the web and post it, but not yet. I'm learning...

Thanks for the cool stove shots and all the info, you are a gem, sir!

[Chip-skiff]

There are stoves that burn kerosene/#1 diesel/Jet A aviation fuel or stoves that burn benzene/white gas/Coleman fuel. If you use the latter sort of fuel in the former type of stove, it'll explode.

There are also multifuel stoves that burn both fuels, but you need to change the orifice and perhaps other parts according to the fuel type.

I'd avoid old military-surplus stoves such as the one pictured. Designs have improved quite a lot since that time, and you'll need to replace all the gaskets and seals to use it with confidence. For warm-weather camping the most trouble-free sort is a gas cartridge stove, with a pressurised bottle that most often has a mix of propane and butane. It is more expensive to operate than a liquid fuel stove, but much less trouble.

I've built quite a few variations on gas cartridge stoves and also built ultra-light alcohol (methylated spirit) stoves out of Guinness cans and other bits. What works best depends on conditions and your cooking habits.

[Bruce Hooke]

I don't think I've seen it here although we do see ''lamp oil'' in the shops .Not the same I assume ?

Coleman is one brand under which "white gas" is sold. According to this website: http://members.iinet.net.au/~mbuckler/fuel/index.shtml what we in the US call "white gas" or "Coleman fuel" is sold in Australia as "Shellite," "White Gas," or "Mobilite."

I'd be cautious about burning automotive gasoline because, as Ian noted, automotive gasoline has various additives, the combustion products of which are likely not very healthy.

[goodbasil]

Back in '85 when I did my bike trip across this continent I took one of those '30s white gas burning stoves which Bob displays. Took it to a shop here for a part and the fellow discribed it as, "the cats meow." Said it was the one the US army took through WW2.

Now I use a 8R. Great stove, just replace the washer now and again. Did a controlled test with my 8R and my electric kitchen stove. 8R boiled water 20% faster.

Google, "the stove collector", and loads of stuff comes up. There sure has been a many styles through the years.

[Wayne Jeffers]

I have an Optimus 80 that I bought new almost 50 years ago. Simple, efficient and reliable. Great gasoline stove.

By all means, use Coleman or other camp stove gasoline in your portable stoves. Motor fuel gasoline contains additives such as benzene, a known carcinogen. Not what you want to be breathing in an enclosed tent.

Wayne

[PeterSibley]

Coleman is one brand under which "white gas" is sold. According to this website: http://members.iinet.net.au/~mbuckler/fuel/index.shtml what we in the US call "white gas" or "Coleman fuel" is sold in Australia as "Shellite," "White Gas," or "Mobilite."

I'd be cautious about burning automotive gasoline because, as Ian noted, automotive gasoline has various additives, the combustion products of which are likely not very healthy.

Yes , the recommendation seems to be Shellite ...I think I'll need a lesson though as I'm kerosene experienced , but not these dual fuel things at all .I need something moderately small though .6'' high and 5'' diameter would be great , my old brass Primus is just too bulky for the bike .

[Bruce Hooke]

The modern camping stoves, while a bit pricey, are quite good when it comes to compactness and effectiveness. I have a Whisperlite stove and it is very compact and also quite effective, not to mention that there is not much that cannot be repaired in the field with a simple repair kit (short of hitting it so hard that some major component breaks!).

If you get a new gas stove, or a stove that comes with instructions, I don't think you'll find it that hard to figure out how it works, but if you have a chance it certainly would not hurt to sit down with someone who has used the stove you get and give the stove a trial run.

If low cost is critical, if you can get the simple Bluet butane stoves and canisters down there, they work quite well in my experience (except in cold weather) and are cheaper than anything else I've come across, at least in terms of prices for new stoves, but of course you want to make sure that the Bluet canisters are readily available.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Yes , the recommendation seems to be Shellite ...I think I'll need a lesson though as I'm kerosene experienced , but not these dual fuel things at all .I need something moderately small though .6'' high and 5'' diameter would be great , my old brass Primus is just too bulky for the bike .

Some sizes from my collection
111T - Pump pressurized multi-fuel - 7"x7"x4" - tough as old boot awesome reputation won over decades.
1922 Primus 96 "The Pocket" - 6"x4.75"x2.5" - The classic compact kero-burner - pump pressureized kero only.
1967 Primus 96 in Brit Army Mess kit - 6.5"x5"x2.75" - same stove but with two pot/plate things. Neat effective controllable kit.

Kero burners need a separate fuel from the bike and - if you prime traditionally - a third fuel just for priming - this makes gasoline stoves very very attractive - and if you don't need to run them inside a tent, then they are reasonably safe.
Self pressurizing - variations on a theme
Optimus 8R - 5"x5"x3.25" -
Primus 71 - 4"x4"X6" -
Optimus 99 - 5"x5"x3.25" - this includes a small pan - maximum neat




The various modern stoves where the fuel tank is a sigg bottle are mostly bulkier but more flexible in pack space requirements.

Deep left field

Not for nothing is it known as "The Bombe"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeujsvY1N9s

[troutman]

This is like a walk down memory lane. My Svea was simple and worked great but if I were buying now for above freezing use I'd go with a little compressed gas unit. I think Backpacker and Outside magazines reviewed them in the last few months.

[PeterSibley]

PI , could I have your opinion on this ...Australia seems to have a fairly small availabity of types of stoves .This one is on Ebay now .

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Optimas-88-St...faultDomain_15

[Wayne Jeffers]

PI , could I have your opinion on this ...Australia seems to have a fairly small availabity of types of stoves .This one is on Ebay now .

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Optimas-88-St...faultDomain_15

The working parts look almost exactly like my Optimus 80. (Mine is in a box of sorts, instead of the three-part container.)

IMO, one could not possibly want a better gasoline-fueled camp stove. Parts are still available, though I have yet to need any for mine after almost 50 years.

Wayne

[Bob Cleek]

I still have a couple of Svea 123's.... work like a champ and really lightweight. I see where they want $100 for one these days. Got my first one new back in my camping days for maybe $30 and the other at a garage sale years later for $3. I didn't NEED a second one, but for $3, well, who knows... it may come in handy someday.

[OconeePirate]

As long as the topic is stoves...

I've been wanting one of these just because they're so pretty. Are they actually worth a damn?
http://www.stpaulmercantile.com/inde...sPressureStove

[coelacanth2]

I've used one of these hunting out west in Montana and on local campouts. Feller I hunt with had never seen one, thought it was a gimmick
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...07/Kkettle.jpg
until we used it , boy was he convinced. FWIW, he has 35 years experience flying Hueys starting in Vietnam, was rated to teach survival in all sorts of laces and conditions. He wished he'd had one on several of his postings...

[Chip-skiff]

PI , could I have your opinion on this ...Australia seems to have a fairly small availabity of types of stoves .This one is on Ebay now .

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Optimas-88-St...faultDomain_15

Good, solid brass stove. Likely worth about $25-30 AU. If you get it, be sure to examine the gasket inside the fuel tank cap and replace it if there's any brittleness or cracking. That's what fails and causes this type of self-pressurizing stove to explode.*

Never, ever use a liquid-fuel stove like this inside a tent, particularly a tent of synthetic fabric that will melt with flame. As a backcountry ranger, I had to evac a guy whose stove blew up in his tent in an icy gale: he had second and third-degree burns with tent fabric melted on his skin. Painful as hell. Also frostbite.

*The note about the fuel cap gasket also applies to Svea 123 stoves. One blew up on me, because I didn't replace the gasket.

[Bob Smalser]

When it looks like this in July at a 13,000-foot camp, I don't know anybody who doesn't use a stove inside the tent. Mountain tents often have a hole in the ground cloth specifically for a stove. Just insure the stove has fresh gaskets, you use it near the tent door, and you keep the door open when you light it and a towel handy so you can grab it and toss it if you have to.



And I don't know how cold it gets where you camp, Peter.....but stoves without a pressurization pump are more difficult to light, warm up more slowly, and can even go out on you if the weather is cold enough. Then you have to let the &%$# thing cool down before you can attempt to relight it. The pump is there to keep the fuel flowing after taking a gust of cold air during warmup as well as getting gas in the cup for lighting. The GI stove even has a donut-shaped wick in the cup to soak up some fuel for easier and faster warmup in adverse conditions.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

PI , could I have your opinion on this ...Australia seems to have a fairly small availabity of types of stoves .This one is on Ebay now .

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Optimas-88-St...faultDomain_15

"The business" - The burner part is effectively the SVEA 123R, and the pots and windshield a match for the Sigg cookset.

In the UK you would need a healthy dose of luck to find one below sixty quid.

These run well to adequately without a pump down to -5°C on UK gasoline - I'd expect the optional pump and filler cap from the other optimus self pressurizing stoves to fit and work - alowing lower temperatures or the use of a slightly less volatile fuel.

[Chip-skiff]

Hmmmm. Wouldn't think you'd encounter much savage alpine weather on a motorcycle trip in Australia.

(For seven years I spent an average 30-40 days each year in winter camps in the Wind River Range of Wyoming at 11,000-12,000 ft. and didn't cook inside a tent. We always dug a foot well outside the door with a vestibule pitched to break the wind, i.e. open on one side, which makes a stove-toss easier. And we had to toss a few, mostly MSRs.)

For motorcycle camping in Oz, I'd go with this sort of cartridge stove or a Trangia spirit cooker, which is quiet:

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XAqLuU8H28k/TH...720/stoves.jpg

Or this sort, with a burner on the ground and hose, which can be found in inexpensive versions:



My favorite stove for roaming is a Coleman Exponent Xtreme rebuilt as a hanging cooker, so I can brew up while standing.



Here's a methylated spirit stove built from a beer can and a bit of aluminum sheet for a pot support. Needs a windscreen. But it does a fine job for the weight and bulk.



If you're aiming to start a historic stove collection, and want to learn field repair techniques, by all means go with an old clanker.

[PeterSibley]

The weather here is very gentle .You won't find me riding around in anything cooler than 5C ,usually a lot warmer .

There another on of the US army type of stove ...although this one has been lent to our fellas . Is it the same as the US M1950 ?
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Vintage-USMC-...o%3D%26ps%3D63

and thanks everyone , this has been an education .

[Venchka]

Primus multi-fuel. White gas, kerosene, gas canisters. What's not to like? I enjoy mine. I also keep my Svea 123 and Coleman Peak 1 as backups.

[Bob Smalser]

The weather here is very gentle .You won't find me riding around in anything cooler than 5C ,usually a lot warmer .

Don't miss my point. A serious flaw in extreme cold often remains an irritant in the tropics. I'd limit my choice to designs having pumps....and pumps large enough to do the job and comfortable to use, too. Some have handles designed for mouse thumbs.

[boatbuddha]

No kerosene in the M1950. But MSR (Mountain Safety Research) makes several excellent stoves using the same burner design that burn a variety of fuels. These are popular with climbers because they also melt snow well but are lighter than the M1950. But bring money.

http://www.rei.com/product/709002

I've been using my MSR for almost 20 years. It has never failed me once in the field.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

One of the interesting start points on stove choice is: "What do I intend to cook?"

If the answer is - "I just boil water to make coffee or re-hydrate noodles" - then there's no call to get complicated - a tin can + a few holes = a hobo stove and can burn dry twigs quite effectively - the advanced version is the Kelly Kettle and any of the stoves mentioned above will get the job done.

Alternatively, if you are a fan of sauces and custards, quite subtle control of the heat could be needed - none of the coleman gasoline stoves I own throttle well.......

Chip-Skiff's mention of the Trangia is a good point - the base models all run on alcohol and are the most reliable stoves on the planet , there are both gas and multifuel conversion kits available for the 25 and 27 models.

The Swedish army kit is particularly neat - especially if you have access to firewood.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-GHZ-l_tGw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ELp4gLSuYs

[PeterSibley]

Cooking requirements are somewhat limited ..tea and my 1 cup percolator ,frying eggs and such .Boiling rice and spuds .Sauces I'll leave for home .

[The Bigfella]

You could always run with a twig stove... a can with some holes punched in it. There's normally eucalyptus twigs pretty much everywhere you are likely to travel in Oz

Here's a hi-tech commercial version (a bit big)

[PeterSibley]

Nice one ! I had a Thermette once that worked the same way .A bit of a fire danger sometimes though .The EFS boys might get upset .

[Venchka]

Not to mention the mess & smell when you pack it on a motorbike.

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

Coleman is one brand under which "white gas" is sold. According to this website: http://members.iinet.net.au/~mbuckler/fuel/index.shtml what we in the US call "white gas" or "Coleman fuel" is sold in Australia as "Shellite," "White Gas," or "Mobilite."

That seems to be a pretty useful website.

But here is Oz I've never heard this fuel called 'white gas' but only (and then only occasionally) 'white spirit.' It's almost always referred to generically as Shellite, whoever the producer.

I've been using it in a Coleman pressure lantern for decades without any problems whatever, and I can't see that it wouldn't work in Peter's stove just as well.

Mike

[PeterSibley]

Can someone suggest a parts supply shop that would ship overseas ...for the US Army stove?

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Not in the UK where the best supplier is Base Camp but their stock of vintage coleman spares is small indeed.

The best guy on this board is probably "Nordicthug".

[PeterSibley]

Thanks PI ,I think I'll have to PM a few US residents .I doubt I'd find parts here either ,
Peter

[WX]

Back in my caving days this was called a Choofa. Wishing I had bought one now but they use ta scare me a bit back then.

[Fishbucket]

This is the stove I run with..




While I'm out MotorSicle camping.

[PeterSibley]

Yep Fish ,that's will be what I'll buy if I can't score a good secondhand one .